One man battles Dubya armed with 'Fahrenheit 9/11' downloads

[chum]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=576751

By Charles Arthur, Technology Editor

28 October 2004

Marc Perkel is spending $2,000 (£1,100) in the hope of ensuring the result of the United States presidential election. Not by buying television ads ($2,000 wouldn't go very far) but by offering Michael Moore's film Fahrenheit 9/11 as a free download from his site in the hope that watching it will encourage people to vote against George Bush.

And at least half of his hope has been fulfilled: thousands of people have downloaded the film from his site in a format that can be watched on a computer.

Yet despite offering a box-office hit backed by heavyweight producers such as Harvey Weinstein, available for free over the internet, Mr Perkel, of San Bruno in California, does not fear being sued, as one would normally expect.

Instead, he insists that "Michael Moore wants me to distribute this" - although he admits that Moore has not spoken to him specifically. The $2,000 is the cost of one month's high-speed connectivity for his site, where the digital versions of the film are stored - and if download numbers are any guide, he has found a receptive audience.

Since he put the films online, more than 300,000 people have downloaded them in full or in part.

---- snip ----

[specter]

1. Dude is

a common criminal. Plain and simple, copyright violation.


On the box that comes with the purchased DVD,

very bottom of the box on the back in small writing:

Unauthorized reproduction,distribution, or exhibition violates federal laws with severe penalties and violates columbia tristar home entertainment's standard terms of trade.

[chum]

3. Not a copyright violation

when Michael Moore says to copy it.

[specter]

6. Michael Moore

does not own the rights to the movie guys he has no say so over weather or not someone can distribute this movie.

[NJCher]

4. didn't MM say this was OK?

I could be wrong but I thought he said he didn't care if people downloaded it for free.




Cher

[chum]

7. Pirate my film says Michael Moore

http://www.webuser.co.uk/news/56254.html

July 5, 2004
Kim Gilmour

Michael Moore Controversial filmmaker Michael Moore has said he's happy to let people share his latest film, Fahrenheit 9/11, across peer-to-peer networks.

The film, which is critical of President George Bush and his administration, won the Palme d'Or award at this year's Cannes Film Festival.

"I don't agree with the copyright laws and I don't have a problem with people downloading the movie and sharing it with people as long as they're not trying to make a profit off my labour. I would oppose that," Moore told the Scottish Sunday Herald. "I do well enough already and I made this film because I want the world to change. The more people who see it the better, so I'm happy this is happening."

Although the movie is being shared by many Moore fans, even his detractors have posted the film for free download on sites including www.moorewatch.com. After initial hesitation, the film's distributor, Lions Gate, is appearing to leave the file-swapping activity alone.

---- snip ----

[specter]

8. Dont care what hype

you type dude he breakn the law look at the box. Ive got it right in front of me.

[AntiCoup2K4]

9. Arlen? Is that you shilling for the MPAA?

If so, you wanna explain that whole "magic bullshit..er uh bullet" theory again? :shrug:

[specter]

10. Actually

Im someone who has had intellectual property stolen online before, couldnt care less about the motion picture association or anyother bullshit like that. Theft is theft period. I dont give a shit if someone has said someone said that he said it was ok to do it. If the OWNER doesnt give permission then its not ok.


P.S. Michael Moore is an excellent dude BUT he doesnt own the movie rights.

[tjdee]

11. After initial hesitation, the film's distributor, Lions Gate, is appearing

to leave it alone.

Says quote above.

If Lion's Gate doesn't care....is that okay with you?

[specter]

13. No

It not Ok with me, "is appearing" what does that mean, that they have said yes please steal millions of dollars worth of revenue from us cause we are a political organization hell bent on the removal of *. Lions Gate is not the only organization involved with the money aspect of the movie Columbia Tristar Distributes the movie according to the BOX that came with the DVD. Also the following have something to say about the money aspect. Fellowship Adventure Group, L.L.C. Dog Eat Dog Films, IFC Films, Sony Pictures, Of course all the Capitalistic Pig Companies want to donate millions of their dollars for the get rid of bush campaign without the tax benefits by letting internet hacks steal the movie. I guess the music industry is just as wrong and all the musicians should work for free for all the college kids so they have something to listen to at school.

[chum]

16. Moore Said - Steal it

Moore said that he has plenty of money and that he wants people like perkel to spread it around. Actually - Lion's Gate will be money ahead because it's free advertising. Many people who download it will go see the movie. And those who won't weren't going to see it anyhow.

Moore wants this.

[chum]

2. oh - and the link to the downloads

http://marc.perkel.com/archives/000468.html

[bush equals idiot]

5. Build a monument for that man.

[osaMABUSh]

12. Give a few F 9/11 video copies to undecideds

MM could have subtitled "F 9/11" as "Steal this Movie" so some DVD/VHS copies have been distributed through various channels to undecideds.

The goal of F 9/11 was to get * out of office. The ends may justify the means in this case.

[specter]

14. Not really

arguing with what moore had to say. I agree with the removal of bush. Thats not the issue being discussed. The issue is the law.

[rfrrfrrfr]

15. Um Dude

MR. Moore is the Holder of the copy right. As the holder of the copy right if he says you can share it on peer to peer networks and essentially make it public domain then no law is broken and no copyright is infringed. You can't be guilty of stealing something you have been given public permission to give away.

The only restriction Moore has placed on copying F 9/11 is he does not want people to profit from distributing copies. The only way anyone could be pinned with copy right infringement is if they were distributing copies for for profit.

[specter]

17. Um Dude

Mr Moore sold the rights to the movie. That means he doesnt own it anymore.

"The only restriction Moore has placed on copying F 9/11 is he does not want people to profit from distributing copies. The only way anyone could be pinned with copy right infringement is if they were distributing copies for for profit." - OK who is going to police this aspect of your claim? Is it up to the individual to be honest enough not to sell his copy? Which, if you use logic, you will see that any company that is out to make a profit on a movie would not allow people to do this because, if there is an easy buck to be made someone will make it.

300000 X 19.95 = $5,985,000

According to dudes website this is how much the LionsGate Company has lost due to his download. Would u like to loose this much money???

[chum]

18. Morre has permission to give it away

If Moore didn't have permission to give it away - he wouldn't be giving it away. If Lion's Gate had a problem with Moore inviting people to download the movie they would have said so.

Moore wants this - Lion's Gate is cool with it. Permission has been granted.

[specter]

21. Show me where they said this

Give some proof not bs

[BootinUp]

22. You can't lose what you never had

They did have potential to gross some of that money but most people looking for downloadable movies weren't planning on buying the dvd anyways. And some of them will watch it and then go and buy the higher quality dvd. Undoubtedly this online version is crappy in comparison. Just wanted to point out that the RIAA mathematics you spout is based on bullshit.

Also, I sincerely doubt that there will be a complaint from the copyright owners, they have made a fucking mint off that movie already. And don't seem to be complaining. Get over it.

[specter]

23. Just another excuse

is what im hearin my bs sounds more logical than urs :P

[specter]

24. Oh and the law is the law btw

not one of these excuses would work with a federal judge trust me. If you havent read my previous posts, Ive been violated by the hacks myself on a book that was stolen from me and sold by some jerk in california so Im intimately aware of the laws involved. They are federal laws not state and anytime the company gets tired of being fucked by the people that think you owe them something for free just because someone says so, you get the Music industry response and guess how many of those folks won againt the music industry lawyers? That would be a big fat 0. And about the reverse logic u use on my figures I was being conservative with the numbers Im sure if they didnt have anyway to download the movie or steal it from someone else they either have to go to the theater or buy it. But seing that they are so poor that they have a computer with a highspeed connection and cant afford a movie ticket then i guess its justified. What the fuck ever dude.

[chum]

25. Would Michael Moore lie to us?

When he said go ahead and pirate the movie. Do you really think Moore is that dishonest or stupid? Who should we believe - you - or Moore? I believe Moore!

[BootinUp]

27. Sure they could

push for prosecution, after the author made the statements quoted above I'm sure the Judge and Jury would be very harsh. /sarcasm

Its not a question of whether they can afford the dvd, its a question of whether they want the thing. Downloading a low quality video does not mean they are a sure customer.

On your experience, I think you have every right to pursue redress and support whatever law you think would prevent that. The small guy undoubtedly gets hurt with today's digital networks. But I am against more copyright protection laws for the big corporations.

[rfrrfrrfr]

26. Specter you need

to do your research first.

The copyright for f 9/11 is registered to Westside productions LLC which is Mr Moore's Production company. Lions gate is nothing more than the distributor and has nothing to do with the original copy right.

If you don't believe me look on your DVD the copyright is right there on the back. I believe what Moore sold was the distribution rights which are an entirely seperate thing from a copyright. I could be wrong on that as I am not privy to all the details of Mr. Moore's dealings with Lions gate. If Lionsgate had the copyright the DVD would show lionsgate with the copyright and not Moore's production company.

[chum]

28. Thank you

I hope this finally clears it up. Moore owns the copyright and he gave permission to copy it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. Mark is that you?

Perkel is a Gadfly out to get attention
Every once in a while a gadfly out getting himself attention can cause some good depending upon how they do it.

What is obvious about Perkel if one reviews his site (on women and gays) is that he is a sexist and a homophobe...

BTW..the day he got his ass canned from DU, it was for suggesting that people burn flags at an anti-war rally...you know...that worked real well to get anti-war activists listened to in the 60's and did a lot to have mainstream America get on the peace train.

Perkel MAY be doing SOME good getting 9/11 out...that much is true...but bet your hat your ass and your overcoat that if there weren't a PROFIT or some attention to be had in doing it...Perkel wouldn't be doing it...he's kind of like a male, redneck Camille Paglia.

[CatWoman]

20. *snarf*

I can't fucking stand Camille Paglia.

:D