I am very afraid and I need advice from some of the elders on DU

[GingerSnaps]

Last night I was listening to Air America and a caller said that he was a computer programmer. He said that no matter how many people vote for Kerry the computerized machines have already been rigged and set up for Bush to win. The caller went on to say that the tape that was played yesterday with OBL in it sealed the deal for Bush because now they can say that the voters were scared and that is why Bush will win and that no one will no the difference when Bush steals another election because of it.

I couldn't sleep last night because I know a bit about computer programming and I feel that the boxes are rigged.

My Question is. Why can't we put people at each polling place so that we can ask the people that voted on the machines who they cast their vote for and to sign a paper that states that's who they voted for and tally it all up after it's over and then match the counts up to the count from the machines.

[greatauntoftriplets]

1. Haven't you been reading all the BBV threads?

We've known that for ages....

[GingerSnaps]

2. Yes I have

I thought that we had a chance this time but I am afraid that it's going to happen again.

[apnu]

4. Look....

1) massive GOTV right now in early voting states. Millions are casting votes on paper as we speak.

2) only a few states (and a few precincts in those states) are using BBV the Deibold way. At best, the GOP can only really steal FL. people say OH, but i doubt it. OH will be a mess but not because of BBV.

3) Traditional GOP strongholds are threatening to go blue right now. the GOP did not plan for this. VA, MI, AK, NC all could go blue. That block alone would lock up the prez for Kerry.

So calm down -- don't freak out -- and keep working' toward a Kerry victory. On Nov. 3 you can have all the nightmares you want.

[freetobegay]

3. Have faith my friend

We've got their number & are waiting to pounce. This election will not be stolen from us.

[JimmyJazz]

5. You have so much on your plate these days. Please

try not to borrow trouble. You need to concentrate on your studies - and not worry about this so much. Here's a :hug: - now go study and kick ass on those exams!

[GingerSnaps]

12. It's so hard for me to study

I have a mid term in my Western Civilization class and it is on Mesopotamia and the Crusades. All I can think of is Bush saying that his war was a Crusade and where is the war at right now Iraq which was Mesopotamia and who was fighting the war the Christians against the Muslims. :grr:

:hug: Thank you for caring.

[JimmyJazz]

17. I can't even imagine how hard it is for you to

study right now - I can't even concentrate on a magazine article! But, I'll be thinking about you. Let us know how you do on your test!

[GingerSnaps]

24. I will

I am making up index cards right now in order to use them like flash cards. I have so many tests that I am only going to memorize a small amount of each one each day.

:hug:

[Cerridwen]

6. We do have poll watchers which include technical experts and

lawyers "on the ground" all across the U.S.

"We" have been aware of this for some time and have taken measures to address the issues.

There are many strategies in place to address myriad potential scenarios.

So, take a deep cleansing breath, resolve to stay vigilant, and if you're able; GOTV, make calls, write LTTEs, poll watch, or something that feels active to you. It helps lots.

:hi:

[wildflower]

11. And also (what we can do)...

(This is from something I posted in another thread on this)

<<Contribute to the GELAC fund: https://contribute.johnkerry.com/gelac.html?team=4595 .

Because I liked what Jeebo said in this thread as well:

"Which is why the Kerry camp needs to supplement their army of lawyers with another army -- an army of statisticians, mathematicians, oddsmakers and pollsters, who will analyze and scrutinize the Tuesday vote in minute detail, from all the angles, looking for the subtle statistical anomalies that will alert us to vote fraud.">>

(see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2559600 )

-wildflower

[Bronco69]

7. "My Qustion is.

Why can't we put people at each polling place so that we can ask the people that voted on the machines who they cast their vote for and to sign a paper that states that's who they voted for and tally it all up after it's over and then match the counts up to the count from the machines."

Because we have a secret ballot in this country and people will tell you to mind your own business. I don't mean to belittle your idea, but that would never work.

[Orangepeel]

8. well, you could do that, but no one would take your poll seriously

Say the results don't match. You won't be able to prove that your polls is the accurate one. Many people won't tell you who they voted for and others might lie to you.

I hate to be a wet blanket, but they only thing to do now is GOTV.

[DulceDecorum]

9. There is an African proverb which says

Before you to hunt an elephant,
make sure you have a pot big enough to cook it in.

Well, I am going out hunting elephant on Election Day.
And we DO have a pot big enough to cook it in.

All the other side is going to get is a

:kick:

Do not misunderstimate
the hatred and digust that SANE PEOPLE have for neocon Bush.
We are going to overcome.

[Zen Democrat]

10. OBL didn't really say anything to scare people.

That fake "Assam the American" thing was scare tactics, plain and simple. There should be some investigation about that pathetic fakery.

But, the OBL tape wasn't full of threats. He said that neither Bush or Kerry can keep us safe, but a change in policy. Hardly blood running in the streets stuff.

[Zen Democrat]

13. If this computer set-up was for real, why would Cheney go to Hawaii?

That smells of desperation to me.

[Malva Zebrina]

14. I heard that guy

also. Small business owner, lawyer on his way to Nevada (?) to poll watch with his wife, also a lawyer. His theory sounded reasonable. Remember how outraged we were when Cheney started talking up the idea that there will be a terra attack if we elect Kerry? He implied the same thing several times over the course of a week. I thought he was losing his marbles to launch such viscious attacks and so did a lot of others. In hindsight, it now seems all part of the big buildup to connect the tapes (first one deemed a dud by the CIA)showing Bin Laden to invoke fear into the minds of susceptable people. I believe there was knowledge of this tape since at least the time Cheney started flooding the airwaves with his threats of terra attacks if Kerry is elected. This guys theory, that people, according to polls,choose Bush over Kerry as the one that is strongest re National Security, and play to those fears.

Plausible denial--why should the vote be challenged when the polls showed Bush was the favored over Kerry when it came to protecting the Homeland? NOthing surprising about that--they saw Bin Laden on that tape and took their concerns to the voting booth.


--Connect Bin Laden to the war in Iraq and terra and therefore the claim that the Iraq war, and the resultant slaughter of 100,000 innocent civilians, is justified, is also believed by those out of their mind with fear, even though the tape said nothing about the war in Iraq. It does not matter what the tape says as long as the connection is made(at least three times for the proper staying power)--Osama=terrorism=fighting "terrorists" in Iraq to protect us and our "freedoms". It usually is a successful tactic, as we have seen over these past four years, aided and abetted by the American media.

But this time, I do not think it will work as well.

[Zen Democrat]

15. Nor do I. OBL looked too healthy and comfortable to be helpful to Bush.

I mean, it doesn't look like "we're got him on the run."

[doni_georgia]

21. Seriously with his freshly laundered robe - didn't look like he had been

hiding in a cave to me. It's obvious that he is not running.

[GingerSnaps]

18. I appreciate you posting what the caller said

He sounded like he was being truthful but now that I look at it he might have been a freeper.

My heart says that Kerry will win but my gut feeling is that the crooks are going to try and steal it.

:cry:

[wildflower]

16. Another thought...

Could those of you here who are statisticians, programmers, pollsters, or anyone else who might be able to scrutinize what happens with the machines, volunteer? Would this help?

Kerry's site has a volunteer section:

http://volunteer.johnkerry.com/profile/new/

And MoveOn.org:

http://www.moveon.org/keepmeposted/volunteer.html

-wildflower

[Onlooker]

19. Reasons for hope

(1) When Gore ran against Bush, the Freepers ironically were terrified about election theft. They had all sorts of posts regarding how Clinton would steal the election for Gore. So, our fears are partly driven by the fact that we are so partisan.
(2) While Diebold could program into a chip or software a mechanism that would award Bush extra votes, it would be difficult to keep it secret because many people would be involved in developing the code, and even more people would have access to the source code.
(3) Senior Executives at big companies are generally conditioned to focus only on shareholder wealth. As much as they would like Bush to win, they also want to secure more contracts for their product in the many Democratic parts of the country. If there's any evidence that the voting machines were fixed, it will at a minimum cost Diebold billions of dollars in sales.

Any fraud that takes place will take probably place at individual polling places, where a few corrupt people cheat in the age-old way of voting on behalf of the dead. I learned about it firsthand in the Ted Kennedy-Carter primary in Albany, NY, when a grizened old guy told me that Kennedy got the first 17 votes, all before the polling place opened. Although any fraud is bad, hopefully we have at least as many dishonest people as the Republicans do.

[KittyWampus]

29. You Know, I've Thought The Same "Have As Many Dishonest People"

back in the day, Chicago Democrats knew how to fight dirty.

[oddtext]

20. Farfetched

yes, there is a lot of room for fraud, however, elections are managed locally. how would RNC coordinate such theft and still manage to conceal it; how could, with massive GOTV efforts, 30% of precincts shift this election absent BIZZARE and easily suspect numbers -- like 85%/15% splits in BBV counties. i think that's what it would take in some places. sure, there will be a number of problems, but i don't think the RNC'll risk massive coordianted theft. hell, they can barely keep a government together as it is. if there's a bizarre result in this election all hell breaks loose. watch Eminem's Mosh video for confirmation/intestinal fortitude over these next long days.

i wish Malloy shut that guy up. Love Malloy, but we just don't need this crap now.

[Must_B_Free]

22. The voting machines work

it's the tabulation software where the fraud will be perpetrated

[GingerSnaps]

23. Texas proved that it happened in 2002

But nothing was ever done about it.

I wish that I could find a link to Bev Harris message thread that showed that three different candidates won the same exact amount of votes. I am afraid about BBV for that reason alone.

[elehhhhna]

25. gooogle : votes 18,001. I THINK that was the "lucky" number...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. 18181....a prime number

[gulfcoastliberal]

27. Remember "Rob Georgia"

Cleland lost to vapor ballots.

[harpo]

28. if you are scared...go down to the polls and VOTE