I was at the beauty salon today and an

[helpisontheway]

older African American lady (I'm young African American) and I started talking about the election. She said Bush was awful and that she hoped Kerry would win. Then she mentioned something troubling to me. She said that she visited a church last Sunday and the pastor was telling the people to vote for Bush because he is a good Christian man. :puke: She said that she did not think it was right because there should be a separation of church/state. Anyway, she said all we could do was vote and pray. Anyway, I'm thinking that this might be what is happening to some of the AA vote. I hope the heck they wake up by election day and do the right thing for the country. It pisses me off because Bush has all of them fooled into thinking he is this good Christian man when he is evil as hell. UGH...

[DUgosh]

1. Happened to us too.

We have BIG Kerry stickers all over car now and get to church early and park right up front. EVERYONE has to walk past the Van. It's hard to miss.

[aquart]

2. This pastor can't tell a real Christian from a fake?

Maybe she ought to think about changing her church (I know that's hard, but what kind of guidance can he be giving?)

[Droopy]

6. That's what I'd do

Anybody who think's Bush is a good Christian man is obviously delusional and for a preacher to say that he must not be too up on scripture.

[Blue Gardener]

3. Tax-Exempt Status

Should be rescinded for ANY church that tries to tell you who to vote for.

[Must_B_Free]

4. Illegal breach of tax code

unless the church does not enjoy tax exempt status, it is illegal for a pastor to tell people to vote for Bush.

Rather, they are allowed to say it, but then they MUST pay taxes on all of their revenue.

[belle]

10. Yes indeed.

[Jade Fox]

5. What I don't understand is why....

Christians (both Black and white) blindly except that Bush is a "good
Christian man." What has he ever done to prove that? Most of our recent
presidents have been actively Christian, but did not get that same free
pass from Christian voters.

Bush doesn't even attend church, although he has lots of "prayer breakfasts"
and the like. What that tells me is that Bush has no need for some preacher
to tell him anything about his faith. He already knows it all. Typical of his
smug arrogance.

[THUNDER HANDS]

7. if blind faith is the hallmark of religion

then it shouldn't be too surprising when people don't think for themselves and just accept that Bush is a good Christian man.

[Jade Fox]

15. The didn't have that response to Clinton, who actually attended church. nt

[sangh0]

8. They don't accept that bush* is a good man

That's why bush* has to bribe them with faith-base BS

[Maddy McCall]

19. EXACTLY. All you others need to quit condescending to blacks long...

enough to read this post. It isn't that they truly believe he is a "good christian;" it IS that he has funneled money through faith-based initiatives into African=American communities, and the black preachers will "Uncle Tom" to continue to receive it.

Black congregations are smarter than this. Just like whites don't hang onto every word the preacher says, neither do black congregants.

Quit condescending to them long enough to see what is going on.

[sangh0]

23. It's because DUers are not familiar with

the black Christian community.

[Maddy McCall]

24. It's also a form of paternalism/racism.

And you are right. :thumbsup:

[Jade Fox]

26. Can I help you down off that high horse?

I don't see any paternalism or racism on this thread.

[sangh0]

27. I have to agree with Ms Fox

I don't think there was any sort of ignoble motivation here.

Unfamiliarity breeds ignorance.

[Maddy McCall]

29. To think that black congregants hang on every word...

that their preachers speak, and that they aren't as smart as us to see through the Bush administration and Bush's false Christianity--that's paternalism. Paternalism is a form of racism. There's nothing good about it.

[PassingFair]

9. I'm counting on the African-American vote...

...as I do every election. I grew up in Detroit, and my take is that AA's are the greatest dem voting block in the country.
Their bullshit detectors are set much higher that the white people I know. They poll about 400 Kerry to 1 Bush here in Michigan, despite their churches sometimes falling for the bait and switch dollars of bushco/puke evil syndicates.
I get tears in my eyes just remembering the black caucus standing up to the evil empire after they choked democracy out of Florida.
Keep fighting the good fight,helpisontheway!

[Kazak]

11. I am the President of a Unitarian Universalist church...

and I've had to bite my tongue to keep from endorsing Kerry (even though I think virtually everybody is for Kerry), because tax laws prevent us from doing so, so I find stories like this to be rather irritating. :grr:

I've just been telling people to make an "informed decision." ;)

[deutsey]

13. Hi, fellow UU'er!

:hi:

[Jade Fox]

17. So, are you saying it is actually illegal for preachers to....

urge their congregations to vote a certain way from the pulpit? If so,
there is a lot of law being broken right now in this country!

[deutsey]

20. I think in order to retain their tax-exempt status

churches can't endorse or promote political candidates.

[Gyre]

21. Yeah, no shit.

Unfortunately, there are no consequences for freeper violators of the separation of church and state. Under NORMAL circumstances there would be an investigation, and if shown to be anything near systemic political partisanship in that church they'd have their tax-exempt status pulled. Ashcrap as atty general guarantees that the Constitution won't be followed if the violation benefits this administration. FUCK THOSE TRAITORS! Get out the wooden stakes for Nov. 3.

Gyre

[Kazak]

22. Link.

http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=resources_pastorsguide

[Jade Fox]

25. Thanks

[DulceDecorum]

12. Christianity just ain't what it used to be.

Between the Freemasons taking over the Southern Bapists
and the Noachides taking over the Pentecostals,
and the Roman Catholics taking over their alterboys,
there just ain't much room for a Jerry Springer audience to pray anymore.

[MADem]

14. The sad, sick thing is that...

...those foolishly eager voters from that woman's church could well be challenged by some fat GOP thug, solely on the basis of race.

I'll bet that woman's pastor has been the cheerful recipient of the FAITH BASED largesse of the weecowboy administration. He probably runs a "Use Jesus, Not a Condom" outreach program to reduce unwanted pregnancies!

[Zen Democrat]

16. Don't assume she goes to an AA church. ...

There are lots of pentecostal and non-denominational charasmatic churches these days that have large interracial congregations - and believe me, these churches are telling their sheep to vote for Bush.

[idiosyncratic]

18. I had to stop attending church months ago because of this

sort of thing. It makes me angry that so-called Evangelical, born-again Christians can support * blindly and also continue their blatant discrimination against gays and lesbians.

They need to really answer the question, "What would Jesus do?"

I am praying constantly that a truly good man will be our next President, by a landslide, next Tuesday night.

[pffarrell]

28. Can't remember where I read it, but

I have read that it is part of conservative stragety to approch pastors of AA churches, and endorse their pet projects in exchange for even just NOT encouraging their congregation to go and vote. I guess it might put someone in a difficult position to have to turn down actual immediate help in exchange for some possible future benefit from an election result.