Ridiculing Freeper's Prayer Thread Is Distasteful.

[KittyWampus]

People on this forum had a Prayer Thread for Kerry during the debates.

I am quite certain there will be a Prayer/Meditation Thread here on Election Day.

For whatever reason or illogical motivation... Freepers are focusing their Intention on an objective.

Just as we are.

Ridiculing that Intention is a very dark thing to do... no matter how childlike the method may be.

I am sure DU'ers will figure a way to rationalize their ridicule.

[Walt Starr]

1. I tend to agree

And we should look at it this way, so long as the racist bastards are busy in their prayer thread, they won't be intimidating minorities out of voting.

[KittyWampus]

9. Or Posting On DU...

:evilgrin:

[Rambis]

2. If there was a god * would never have been elected!

My humble opinion of course-

[Qutzupalotl]

14. Maybe we needed to be galvanized.

:shrug:

All I can tell you is I was not this active in 2000, when I expected Gore to trounce Bush.

Maybe what Kerry is planning (and more) would only have been possible after four years of these daily outrages.

I agree that it's hard to see anything good to come out of a Bush presidency, but you never know. It will take time to put it in perspective.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trumad]

6. How about this

Dear Lord, I hope all the freeper Mother Fuckers go straight to hell and burn for eternity....

Is that showing more respect?

[realisticphish]

23. ridiculing another religion

is just as distasteful

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

edit: granted, they're fucktards, and i have no problem pointing out their hypocrasy

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[realisticphish]

42. ah

so i see the first amendment only goes one way, then?

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[Kimber Scott]

56. Seems you are religiously anti-religion. nt

[Tatiana]

67. In YOUR opinion. But being Democrats, we should respect ALL opinions.

I wouldn't ridicule you being anti-religion, just as you shouldn't ridicule anyone else's faith in G-d, Allah, or whatever.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

79. Religion should only be ridiculed...

when it is used as the reason for making major policy decisions. I think we should criticize the fundies in freeperland because their religious values are being pressed upon us in the form of war, social injustice, and economic failure.

[Dem2theMax]

91. There ARE Christian Democrats on this board. As well as

Democrats of other religions. Maybe you should think on your statement a bit. Because you just insulted a large number of people on this board. I NEVER make fun of or insult people who do not believe or have a different belief than I do. I see it as a sign of respect and tolerance for others. I thought that was part of what being a Democrat is all about.

[Bluebear]

4. "If God no longer loves our country, then John Kerry will win."

That is not prayerful to me, but what do I know.

[KittyWampus]

16. Yes, Their View Is Selfish & Immature. But Then We All Have Our Moments

of being selfish and immature.

Mocking them foro their attempts at focusing their Intent seems harsh.

[Bluebear]

20. Fair enough.

:) It is interesting that they see this as so tenuous that they are resorting to desparate prayer!

[KittyWampus]

24. Damn Straight... It's Also A Bit Overboard To FAST!

that seems extreme.

[Pig_Latin_Lover]

5. I think the idea is that...

...The freepers are implying that God only loves them.

Even if people here pray for Kerry to win, I would hope that they wouldn't say something as rediculous as "God loves America only if W is our President."

But, these people are going flat out crazy. They've claimed God, the flag, our troops, and our country as their own. That stuff has to end.

[smbolisnch]

12. Agreed.........

Invoking god or anyone else in your blatent and outright hateful rhetoric is not exactly prayerful or deserving of respect. IMO. :grr:

[KittyWampus]

18. Well, Everyone Knows That Which Ever Side Prays Hardest Wins...

or is that only in football? :)

[Chili]

49. yep

"They've claimed God, the flag, our troops, and our country as their own. That stuff has to end."

AMEN!

...and Hallelujah!

(while I'm not for ridiculing them either, I am reeeaaaaaal tired of that shit)

[shelley806]

51. You are right...Religion is almost always exclusive, not inclusive

But the original Christianity was inclusive. With time, most things are perverted it seems. This is one of the why religion and state must be kept separate.

[r_u_stuck2]

7. Well, I think you have a choice

You can read the thread or ignore the thread. Just as I am going to do with this thread.

[Robbie67]

8. We've been ridiculing Republicans for a long time

All of the sudden, this particular topic is off-limits?

[Demfromct]

10. Yes it is distasteful

But, what does God have to do with this outcome? Do you think God wants Bush to win, or Kerry to win? God has no stake.

I am tired of right wing evangelicals trying to claim God. I am a practiciing Chrisitan and I will vote for Kerry. God doesn't care who wins. This is a human election and humans will decide it. If God wanted GWB in office, we wouldn't be having an election.

[nookiemonster]

11. Their hypocrisy

is my main motivator. I've just had it with their "monopoly" on our creator.

[leyton]

19. Well I think there is definitely a more appropriate prayer.

It should be, "Lord, let the voters do your will on Tuesday", not Lord, do the Republicans' will.

[sonicx]

13. we haven't voted yet and they're in panic prayer mode...

as if that will help the scientific polls. LOL

[vetwife]

15. If you believe in prayer and fasting, you should know (freepers)

that the Bible is strictly against making a fast a public thing. In fact it is so forbidden, it hinges on blasephemy. These people are praying without knowing what their own bible says about it. Fasting is serious business to christians and as a sacrafice to God, it is to be done totally in secret. The exception is the spouse has to know due to sex and meals. Even then, it is tricky stuff devulging it to them.

[dweller]

17. "You don't love God

if you don't love your neighbor."


justa song lyric, sing along everyone. Freepers, trolls, DU'ers, all together now.


dp

[realcountrymusic]

21. I ridicule the assertion

that if there is a God, s/he would take sides in a political contest, or that we would know her/his intentions in such minute detail, or that s/he would not look with horror on a nation that has killed thousands of innocent people in the pursuit of a political objective justified with phony righteousness.

Mostly, I ridicule anyone who would bring God into politics, period. I find it "distasteful" when Democrats do it, too. Our nation is founded on the principles of freedom of religion and the separation of church and state. We have, as a nation, been playing with fire on this God thing and it will come to no good.

But then, I'm a radical atheist, so the points above are moot. Mostly, I want my freedom not to believe respected, upheld, and not subjected to second-class status.

Besides, ridiculing freepers is always in good taste. It's like a little black dress around here.

Never mind.

RCM

[realisticphish]

25. mostly, hear hear

though everyone should keep in mind that religious people also have the right TO believe. anyway, thats what Sojourners (Christians for peace and justice) has been doing with their "god is not a republican, or a democrat" campaign; theyve gotten ads in a lot of papers, and i really hope it has an effect

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[Devils Advocate NZ]

89. How does ridicule translate into suppression?

How does your right to belive anything you want translate into a right not to be ridiculed for it? What makes religion special? If I ridiculed you for your choice of clothing, would that be alright?

How about if I ridiculed you for your plitical beliefs? Is that allowed?

Or are you saying ALL ridicule should be stopped, including for example ridicule of Bush himself?

Believe what you want, I will still call it stupid if I BELIEVE it is.

[realisticphish]

97. i was just making a general statement

of course it can be riduculed. thats the way our country works. i was just referring to..ah hell i dont fucking know, sorry i was tired, and partly drunk. my apologies


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[Proud liberal Kat]

22. I would tend to agree, with a but...

The Kerry prayer threads I have seen and posted to here have had a lot more respect for God/Divine Energy/whatever you believe in. The debate thread prayer posts were very focused on giving Kerry strength and praying for discernment of the truth for American voters. I think it is pretty arrogant if one is a devout Christian to be telling God who to make President, or pronouncing that God has turned his back on us if one or the other becomes President.
Kathy

[southern democrat]

26. I'd rather not see any religon get insulted.

I don't want to attack their praying. I belive we all have a right to practice or choose not practice religon. But when we attack people who do practice religon it makes us look like worse people than we are. We are above this and must do better. I would say their there are many people on our side who are praying for Kerry and not just to win, but to succeede after he wins. Bush's people in this respect have something in common with the people who pray for Kerry. That includes myself.

[mellowinman]

27. I think this thread is distasteful.

In the extreme.

Get over yourself, Mr. Morals.

If you don't like the method DU'er's may or may not use of ridiculing Freepers, then don't click on the thread.

This thread pissed me off bad.

Guess I shouldn't have clicked on it.

Geez!

[KittyWampus]

30. It's MISS Morals

[RadiDem]

35. Yes ! Alert a mod, but don't browbeat US !

[lgardengate]

28. I agree,Ridiculing anyons prayer is ugly and (imo) dosen't...

Make us look good.Kinda like school kids making fun of others.

[calmblueocean]

29. Absolutely right.

The Democratic Party is not the Snarky Atheist Party. It's a party for all of us, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, atheist, whatever.

Aim higher, people.

[PassingFair]

50. Aha, did you hear that, you just called us "snarky"

Look, the vicious underbelly of religion is playing a huge role in this election, and in the state of turmoil and war we find ourselves in.
I've been canvassing my feet raw, and sorry to say, the religious among us are coming in heavily on the bad guy's side.
Ahem, of course not ALL religious people are sheep waiting for the shepard to apply the crook. Many, in every denomination, are working to oust these blighters.
BUT the unquestioning superstitious folks who float along the river of irresponsibility and put things in God's (or his messenger *'s hands) are a BIG part of the problems we face today.
If these idiots want to self-flagellate the shit out of themselves, great, but when they want to inflict their insanity on the world,
I must cry foul.

[calmblueocean]

63. Hate is not a family value.

There are good Christians and bad Christians, just like there are good atheists and bad atheists. You're free to think and say whatevery you want -- I'm just telling you how ugly and grotesque it looks to see Democrats mocking their opponents for praying.

It looks as ugly to me as the gay-bashing posts you occasionally see on Freeperland.

Let's be a party that welcomes diversity, not one that mocks it.

[PassingFair]

71. Do you deny that a huge, if not the largest chunk of Bush's

base is dancing to his religious tune? That Catholic diocese all over this country are sending out pamphlets telling their parishoners to vote for *?
I drive for large portions of the day and I listen to am radio. Those fundy/catholic radio shows are schilling for Bush 24/7. Really disgusting stuff, too.

[calmblueocean]

82. Hating Christians won't make them go away, and it won't make 'em Democrats

The original request was that we not start threads mocking people for praying for their candidate, and that's what's important here. When a Christian who feels like the Republican party has become too fundamentalist for them comes to DU to see if there's a place for them here, we should be showing them a party that welcomes them, not one that mocks their prayers.

[DuaneBidoux]

75. "Vicious underbelly of religion isn't playing a part"

Vicious people abusing religion is playing a part. Humans have the capabilities of abusing any system of belief, be it supernaturally based or not. Stalin claimed to be an atheist, and pushed atheism as the absolute truth for all. That is the real problem. People who don't respect other's beliefs who believe that the only truth MUST be THEIR truth. These Freepers praying to God to elect Bush have no respect for others beliefs, others conception of God. That is their problem. It is not inherently a problem of religion. It is inherently a problem of being an asshole.

[calmblueocean]

83. You got it.

"It is not inherently a problem of religion. It is inherently a problem of being an asshole."

Amen!

[realisticphish]

98. love the last line! nt

[PassingFair]

100. Oh yeah, right, and guns don't kill people...

people kill people! Sorry of course there must be no rational examination or discussion of religion and its role in controlling the masses. So sorry. Sacred and all that. I'll move along...

[Cocoa]

31. the Freeper thread was ridiculous

the moment they posted their prayers on their stupid hate site, they lost their sacred value.

[progressivebydesign]

41. And.. THEY pray that Bush will win..

Some of us pray that Kerry stays well and stays safe during the campaign. NOT ONCE have any of us said that we prayed that Kerry would win. That's what makes me laugh about this stupid thread.. we were mocking them for their selfish, hypocritical prayers.. that Bush would win. With thousands of our troops in unsafe Iraq, I really don't think asking Jesus to fix the election is really our cup o' tea.

[RadiDem]

33. Phoeey ! It was probably the FASTING part !

I hope they beat their backs to bloody pulps as penance for bush*.

[shelley806]

34. A tasteful commentary...

I would suggest their prayer for Kerry. But to me, "Christians praying for Bush" is an OXYMORON for Morons. How Christians can pray for a lying, murdering, criminal is beyond me. But it is equally puzzling that so many really think that Bush is "religious"--a quote from Machiavelli, whom Rove has memorized: "There is nothing more important to appear to have than the quality of religion...and one must be a great pretender and dissembler; for men are so simple and subject to present necessities, that he who seeks to deceive will always find someone who will allow himself to be deceived."

This appearance of religion in my mind is Bush's feigning with intent for power. Otherwise, Christianity becomes a mockery, in which lies are truth, enslavement is freedom, cruelty is compassion,injustice is justice and war is peace.

One of the responders to the DU freeper thread used the following quote from the Bible: Matthew 6:5-6 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

For me this is a perfect quote for anyone who would publically pray to aid this President.

[KittyWampus]

37. Very Nice, Thoughtful Essay! Thanks...

:)

[dogman]

36. Right, all freeper threads are distasteful.

Why is one thought process more sacred than another?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

62. Why Is one thought process more sacred than another?

You're not serious...


You're not saying all thought patterns are equal....


Is the thought process of Adolf Hitler as sacred as that of Jesus Christ?

[dogman]

92. Whaaat?

I'm saying that because it is a prayer does not put it out of the realm of criticism. As noted elsewhere here a true prayer would be between the person and their God. Once it has been made public it can be held to public scrutiny. If one puts out a hate pamphlet or a hateful prayer pamphlet, I feel they are equal.

[sangh0]

99. The OP spoke of "ridicule" not "criticism"

though many have a hard time distinguishing between the two.

[dogman]

101. Maybe, but if in your critical revue you determine something is absurd,

you would tend to ridicule it. I just feel that is what is being discussed here when you look at the other threads that have upset the OPer. I am just relieved to be criticized for my post and not ridiculed.

[Elidor]

38. You've mistaken me for someone with a sense of decorum

Fuck all freepers now and forever. I piss on their prayers.

[progressivebydesign]

39. Sorry.. they're hypocritical assholes who deserve ridicule!

I think the Freeper prayer thread was one of the most amusing threads I've seen here in a long time! Imagine, those idiots praying to Jesus, after wishing all types of mayhem and harm to Democrats and John Kerry. They're filthy hypocrites.. who actually believe that Jesus would MAKE Bush president.

Those that pray for Kerry, here, are praying for HIS STRENGTH and WELL BEING!!! NOT that he wins. Get the distinction?????????

Oh brother..

[George W. Dunce]

40. I think it's distasteful

to site religion in a political discussion at all. But thats just me.

[Daocrat]

43. Religion is fair game.

I say this not as a Democrat, but as an atheist.

The indisputable FACT of the matter is that religion motivates not only Freeper fundies, but Islamic fanatics as well. In addition, religion has the weight of thousands of years of history working against it. The repuke fundies are totally convinced that God is on their side, and so is Osama Bin Laden. The only difference is that the Freepers call on Jesus, and Bin Laden calls on Allah.

I'm no fan of religion. Still, I feel that when Democrats on this forum pray, they are praying in the spirit that Jesus intended. In their hearts is goodwill, compassion, and genuine concern for mankind. I can respect that, even though religion is bunk. What I CAN'T and WON'T respect is fundies of any variety (Freeper or Islamic) invoking the name of any God in order to justify their own twisted ideology.

Jesus wasn't a Democrat, but he sure as hell wasn't a Freeper either. He was on the side of compassion and concern, and I think that in modern times, that would apply to us much more than it would apply to the hypocritical repukes or the murderous Islamic fundies. If DU people want to pray, I can't fault it, because I think that their prayers are in the spirit of what Jesus preached. The same cannot be said of the opposition.

Religion, when hypocritically used by the Freepers and fundies of the world, is fair game. It's open season on such false religion, as far as I'm concerned.

[realisticphish]

46. i like your post

even though i am a christian, i completely agree with (most) of what you say. freepers are by far the most hypocritical people i can think of, in religion and in most other aspects. thank you for keeping a fair and open mind

:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

[shelley806]

58. I like your post too; but to me you don't sound like an atheist...

otherwise you wouldn't understand sincere, genuine prayer like you seem to. I agree that religion is not only a very fair game, but in this current world situation, a necessary one. The fundamentalist evangelical Christians, who believe in a literal translation of the Bible, and that they have the only truth, and are God's only chosen people, are exactly the same as the terrorists which we are fighting. And you are right that this has been an historical problem. I can't remember when it has been such a National problem in the U.S.

The fundamentalist Christians, who believe in Armageddon, Israel, the Rapture, etc., will influence war to support their belief systems, as contradictory as that seems (and is for me) for Christians. The particular combination of these Christians with the neocons, who will go to war for power and money, make very dangerous partners. When I first started reading the threads here, I really thought that all of the discussions on Fascism were exaggerated worries. But the more I read, the greater the threat becomes. Especially with this lethal mixture of fundies and neocons.

[Daocrat]

59. Yes, I'm an atheist

That doesn't mean that I can't understand the beliefs of others, or the fact that some people really are genuine and sincere in their wish for the best outcome for all people. Really, what's the difference between an atheists's hope and a sincere Christian's prayer? Nothing, if both genuinely seek the best for all mankind and not just themselves and their ideological allies.

[Sparkly]

61. I'm with you. n/t

[shelley806]

72. Well, to me this is religion; true religion

I believe there is One God for all; conventional religions eventually deny this truth. Are you Buddhist or Taoist? Just wondering because of the "Dao" and your symbol. Many believe that Buddhism is atheistic; but Buddha was enlightened, therefore knew God; he just chose not to name the nameless.

[Sparkly]

80. But does it matter?

Is "atheist" a bad word? So often when it's uttered, people want to say, "Well you aren't REALLY... Agnostic maybe, but not really atheist..."

Named, nameless, unnamed, unrecognized -- what's the difference what other people believe?

I don't mean to confront you in particular. Just think it's interesting how, in general, the concept of atheism makes so many in our culture want to cover it with theism of some sort. And, how anything invoking "God," no matter how horrible, makes people want to say it's off limits to criticism.

[shelley806]

85. If you had read all of my posts above, you would have drawn the

conclusion that your remarks don't apply to me.

"And, how anything invoking "God," no matter how horrible, makes people want to say it's off limits to criticism."

Honesty, a love of truth, and service to mankind levels everyone; believer and non-believer. And give me an honest seeker of truth, whether they believe or disbelieve in God, any day over the blind acceptance of it. I would never had mentioned the word atheist if it had not been brought up. But you might be right about the word atheist; "Well you aren't REALLY... Agnostic maybe, but not really atheist..." Because I believe in God, the atheist has to be incorrect in my view of Nature, and I have to be incorrect in his. But that's fine with me. It's not fine with fundamentalists, and when fundamentalism is combined with political power it can be dangerous.

[Daocrat]

84. I'm a Taoist

I also respect and understand Buddhism, and especially the Zen branch, which is Buddhism + Taoism. :)

[shelley806]

87. I'm reading The Tao of Physics currently; I've been meaning to read it

for years, and finally had the time. He quotes a lot from Lao Tzu-- and I didn't realize that you had a quote by him until I re-posted this.

"Not knowing that one knows is best"

"The Tao that can be expressed is not the eternal Tao."

"He who pursues learning will increase every day.
He who pursues Tao will decrease."
Lao Tzu

"The still mind of the sage is a mirror of heaven and earth."
Chuang Tzu

[progressivebydesign]

44. I nominate this for the most inane thread of the week.

:eyes:

[Chicago Democrat]

45. Religion is fair game... But this Democrat actually prays too!

Visualize Democratic Landslide!

Make fun of them or participate!... Our tent is LARGE.

[psychopomp]

47. Thank you.

I probably should have opened this thread before I kicked that other lame thread with my admonishment.

[Cronus Protagonist]

48. Praying for the Devil's handmaidens is more distasteful

Praying for the death of thousands of women and children is so nefarious and hypocritical, it cries our for open ridicule.

I respectfully disagree with your complaint, and the freepers who are praying for Bush are not only worthy of ridicule, they are worthy of eternal damnation, but we'll leave that part up to their Gods.

[et in Arcadia ego...]

52. Just like religion to have people fighting with one another.

It's been a resounding success in the Middle East huh? :eyes:

[212demop]

53. All in good fun

I think people are just blowing off some steam; so if it's not in the best taste, so what, right? If there's a time to vent it's now until we hit the booths Tuesday, and if there's a place to do it, this forums seems like a pretty good place to do it. Nobody gets hurt.

What I'm basically saying is, I acknowledge the political incorrectness of mocking freeping prayer, but sometimes you just gotta say what the fuck!

:)

[DefenseLawyer]

54. Look, it's a free country

You are free to be religious and I am free to mock you if I choose. You can mock me for being a bottom feeding lawyer or whatever you like. An individual expressing a point of view, even a distasteful one, isn't oppressive, it's the free exchange of ideas. If your ideas are better then so be it. We are not burning churches or hanging heretics here.

[endnote]

55. Absolutely right. I think religion is for weak-minded people.

That is my opinion!

[mitchum]

57. They should deliver their requests directly to God (nothing beats...

actual face time)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. I Started The Thread...

They pray that Bush wins:


so gays will know their place...

so that the French candidate and the Breck girl will know their place too...

that the socialist scum at Democratic Underground be humiliated...


I could go on...



I was having a little fun at their expense....


You might be too naive to know it but the miscreants at that site would put you, me and everybody at this site in Guantamo if they had the chance....

And I up straight up sober when I say it.....


on edit- as I said in the post I started my girlfriend is a devout Catholic... I asked her to pray for a Kerry win.... I didn't ask her to ask God to deliver a plague to the members of Free Republic... That's the difference...

[Wols]

64. Exactly

What they are really praying for is increased intolerance, accelerated destruction of the planet, more killing, etc. These people are kooks and I think their interpretation of the teachings of Christ is flawed.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

68. I Just Pray He Goes Back To Crawford... (NT)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. They Seem More Like Old Testament Types To Me... (nt)

[npincus]

65. I don't have a problem with ridiculing those mean-spirited, Swiftvet-

loving jerks. Keep sticking it to those rotten, Iraq-war loving bastards and hit them as far below the belt as you can, right in the chestnuts.

[Stuckinthebush]

66. Prayer is not necessarily an honorable thing

People are justified in ridiculing certain types of prayer such as the prayers a football player makes asking their god to help them win. Or prayers from a televangelist to smite the homosexuals. Or prayers from far right-wing Americans praying to their god to keep the godly Bush in the White House to insure that god's will be done - that will being to make gay and lesbian Americans 2nd class citizens, kill innocent civilians in Iraq, and prevent the poor from accessing decent health care. NO, these prayers are wrong and should be ridiculed.

Democratsincebirth is right on the mark to ridicule and be very afraid of these types of individuals. Those who invoke the name of their god to justify their bigotry are worthy of our scorn.

Don't get caught up in the term "prayer", it isn't always honorable.

[Maiden England]

70. praying to G-d on Satans behalf is distasteful

[regnaD kciN]

73. As a Christian cleric...

...I say that prayers such as those the Freepers are coming up with, specifically praying for one candidate's victory, deserve to be ridiculed, just like those of high-school athletes granting that God specifically intervene to give a championship to their football team, or teenage girls praying that such-and-such a cute boy will break up with his girlfriend and choose her instead (both of which prayers I've heard at one point or another in my life). In other words, praying that God will do what we want, rather than we doing what God wants.

Personally, I pray that God will grant that voters choose according to the principles our nation was founded on, and specifically that Christians voting will be guided by the values Jesus taught in the Gospels, rather than easy, false images of what America and Christianity are supposedly all about.

[chimp chump]

86. The devout Christians I know...

...pray that God's will be done in an election.

They know and teach that God does specifically choose leaders for all the nations, sometimes to lead them forward and reward them, sometimes to punish or discipline them. This is all in accord with Old Testament scripture (Torah). In this, they are not so different from Orthodox Jews.

So, what are they really praying for if they teach and believe that God chooses who will win elections? They're praying that God will help them accept the results and that they will see how God's hand is active in their lives, that they will see some sign that God does not hate our nation.

So, the local devout of all denominations that I know (R.C., Baptist, evangelical, mainstream) are largely voting for Bush. But they're praying that God influences the outcome to do what is best or what is needed for the country. And that God help them accept the result and act in accordance with it.

For the devout, they are more Christian than they are American or Republican or Democrat. Or at least they aspire to it. I see indications here on this forum that many simply don't understand this or that they simply don't know anyone like this. But I do. For instance, during the Clinton presidency, local conservative Christians may have loathed Clinton and opposed most of his programs politically. But they also prayed every single day for God to guide him and to watch over him and the country. And they would have been lectured by the clergy and church leaders if they failed to do so. Why did they pray for him? Because scripture tells them to pray for their enemies and for their leaders and it also tells them that magistrates (including politicians at all levels) are appointed by God for the common good. They apply this to modern political life in the same way that ancient Jews and early Chrsitians applied such teachings to the appointment of the hated Roman magistrates to govern them. They teach that the magistrate is to punish thieves and murderers and brigands and that that is how we are to see their job.

To some people, I suppose this all seems schizophrenic or ignorant. But it is actually a very sweet characteristic of traditional Christian teaching as it relates to secular politics. And this practice of praying for leaders and for the nation is a very ancient one.

[KittyWampus]

96. Well, Ridicule Doesn't Have Much Of A Goal Beyond Hurting Others

and I can't imagine a clergyman or woman going down that path.

Criticism, yes. But Mockery?

[Warren DeMontague]

74. Right, the poor, beseiged freepers.

Known for their rational discourse. Surely they deserve better.

[Captain Lance Bass]

76. The Freepers prayer thread I started was

A play on Ben Stiller in MEET THE PARENTS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1247251

[ibegurpard]

77. People aren't mocking prayer (for the most part)

I pray every day. They're mocking people who pray to God (who most people would assume to be a beneficent presence) that the president who has posed the most danger to our democratic system of checks and balances of our lifetimes would be re-instated.

[Spider Jerusalem]

78. No, it's not.

What's distasteful is the idea that anyone has the attitude "God is on our side". That is distasteful, and deserves to be mocked.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

81. Our reaction was in part over they way * has used God

and religion as a campaign tool. These people seem to believe that God is for the death and destruction, not to mention the lying, that their leader has spread behind him for four years.

[Hoosierdaddee]

88. God has no stake in the election..........

A message from God:

To all my beloved children,

When I created you one of the things I endowed upon you, to compliment your self-awarness and intellect, was free will. You are free to choose which path in life to follow, as you are free to choose those you wish to follow. I do not care who wins your presidential election nor will I intervene to facilitate a victory for any candidate as I do not favor one candidate over another. I will not reward the winner nor punish the loser, nor shall I do the same of you because of who you support.

My judgement of you is not based on such a humanly concept as "political party" affiliation - by now you should know it is more personal. You shall be judged individually on the manner in which you lead your life nothing more, nothing less.

[Libby2]

90. They deserve every bit of it

and then some.

Can't take the heat? Then stay out of the kitchen.

[Malva Zebrina]

93. I have read over this interesting debate on this thread

As an atheist, I personally find the notion of intercessionary prayer ridiculous. If it makes people feel better, then who am I to say these people should not resort to summoning the gods when they feel helpless. I can still have my view/say that it is ridiculous. It's an interesting debate but not for this forum.

Overtime, and especially within the past ten years, I have watched/researched the religious Christian extremists work their way slowly into our government. I have watched how the Southern Baptist Convention was invaded and couped, stealthily with Chuck Colson, one of the first to instigate that takeover and watched it grow into a strident arm of right wing politics. I have watched all of the arms and offshoots of right wing extremists establish themself on radio, in book after book ad nauseum by doomsayers prophecizing Armageddon and revving up susceptable people into a frenzy of fear manifested in ecstatic celebration of death and destruction and bombing and killing of babies in the ME because it fulfilled a prophecy and boy are they just so happy about it all, and watched the growth, both monetarily and spiritually, and foresaw it's culmination in the seizing of power by a "born again" Christian in the White HOuse who claims a god speaks to him.

My point is--where were the "real" Christians while all this was going on? Why were there no "real" Christian leaders standing up loud and tall to decry the "fake" Christians and point out that their god was the real god, or their approach to the man Jesus was the real approach, even though the bible was written two thousand years ago, when swords and pikes were the highest technology of war. Few, if any, did.

The point is, Christians cannot--as in the admonishment at the header of this head to "not make fun of people praying" blaming others for behaviour not Christian, even though what they are praying/wishing/projecting is evil and destructive and likely, should their "prayers" be answered, harm us all.

It is not atheists who do harm to religion, but Christians relentlessly fighting each other in the battle over the "right" god that gives , in this case, Christianity , it's hypocritical scent.

[KittyWampus]

95. Great Post! I Agree, The "Religious" Left Has Ceded Too Much Ground

and remained silent for too long.

Part of that is because the Spiritual Left (my preferred epithet) does NOT believe in wearing our Beliefs on our sleeves or shoving it down others throats.

Also, as the Majority, we probably were content to let the loud mouthes of the Far Right to dominate the discussion... Live and Let Live.

It is becoming apparent that we have to stand up and say "Enough is enough.

That said, there ARE Spiritual Leaders on the Left who have been speaking out... but they just don't get the limelight.

Rabbi Lerner, for instance.

[Hubert Flottz]

94. I don't even think Gawd reads the innernets!

If she does she's prolly on Ebay most of the time, cause she sure hasn't been looking out for America very well! Gawd may just be starting to punish the evil ones in robes, who made George Bush King!

[ComerPerro]

102. I am sorry, but I must disagree

I doubt the sincerity of freepers who pray for Bush.

They have been praying for him ever since he was selected. But, conversely, they have been disparaging Clinton ever since their site went online. They aren't praying for the President or for the US. They are praying because they think God is a manifestation of their twisted political views.

[LowerManhattanite]

103. The intention is NOT what I ridicule...

...their usage of religion as a bully bludgeon in nearly every facet of life is. These are people who wish to starve the public school system so that THEIR religious schools may benefit from government largesse. These are people who wish to legislate what goes on in the bedrooms of 270+ million Americans based on their strict puritanical religious views. These are people who have no problem with using the courts to enforce and change existing laws based on their specific religious views. And sadly there are a lot of these people who would base our military policy on doomsday/last days/rapture fantasies and an absolute hatred of other religions they deem heathenous and unholy.

Yet these brazen hypocrites can from the other side of their scaled lips hiss the words "love thy neighbor" and "all men are created equal"?

No it isn't their prayer that I ridicule...rather, it is their sacriligeous abuse of prayer to further a nakedly evil agenda. I hold them and their faux/selective/craven religiosity in the same contempt that I hold for the likes of a Father Coughlin or a Pat Robertson. I will ridicule the blatantly ridiculous. We guffawed at the glassy-eyed Elvis for asking for and being named an honorary DEA agent by Nixon and we scoff at J. Edgar Hoover for his fatuous and retrograde high-minded ness in the face of his now-known psychoses, and desires that he would have prosecuted others for.

These goons, thugs and small-minded xenophobes set themselves up for ridicule by posting "prayer" threads at such a hate-filled and striking in it's non-peaceful ways, un-christian site. Calling on God to "help" them when all a lot of them have done is virtually everything counter to moral values is laughable. And while I will never mock those who pray without hate or malice in their hearts for a genuinely better world, I have no trouble shaking my head and chuckling at these desperate and venomous hypocrites who would use God as a shield to hide their man-made bigotry and hate.