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Daocrat Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:09 PM
Original message
Youth Pastor orders burning of Kerry signs
I just heard this on the 10 o' clock news...

The youth pastor in our Alabama town's United Methodist Church decided to hold a "scavenger hunt" for kids. Well, it turns out that the youth pastor told kids to steal Kerry signs and burn them at church. The pastor has apparently "apologized" and will be bringing letters of apology to our Democratic headquarters.

The youth pastor is still employed.
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Claire Beth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. People like him are SICK...
and sadly that is how a lot of people really feel...only WORSE.
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Kimber Scott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Shame. Shame. Welcome to DU!
:toast:
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. What a game it is to disrespect anyone not like you..... sick
Vote for decency. Kerry the better man for a better America.
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dave502d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Get him put in jail.
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mcg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
37. Indeed, that's a criminal offense.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. Yeah, telling minors to steal....
Seems like that has to be a crime.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:37 AM
Response to Reply #40
65. It's not stealing if you're
doing GAWD's WORK. Never mind them 10 commandments. Put them up on the Court House Lawn and then forget them. Hypocrits.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
5. Those who work for God don't always do God's work
What a dork.
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cynatnite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. This jerk should be reported to his bosses
Isn't there a regional office or something that he can be reported to? This is not only illegal, but it's immoral and hypocritical.

I hope someone turns him in and raises hell.

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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. Call the District Superintendent, then the Bishop
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. Report his church - recind their tax exemption.
This is a cut-and-dried clear example of prohibited behaviour under the tax code.


We ship same or next day by first class mail - there's still time to get some of these beauties before they're discontinued!
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13



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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. hmmmm
Isn't this contributing to the delinquency of minors?

If one of his little goons had trespassed on my property and committed theft, you can bet I'd be pressing charges against both the kid AND this 'youth pastor'.

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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #8
72. Yes. He told them to commit crimes. Democrats in the area should file
charges.
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doubleplusgood Donating Member (810 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thou Shalt Not...ummm, how does that go ?
n/t
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tokenlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:18 PM
Original message
United Methodist??
They're usually rather good on the social issues--and not fundamentalist nut cases. This youth pastor is kind of a fluke I'd say...not representative of the denomination as a whole.
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
58. Southern Methodists, like Bush and Oral Roberts.
Here in Texas, they're not much different than Southern Baptists.

AS to the denomination as a whole, they are slowly marching to the right.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. Grr. Welcome to DU...if I see anyone trying to steal my JK sign, I WILL
kill them dead on the spot. No apologies. And I have the firepower to do it (and I have made this same promise public around here...it is NOT illegal!...my signs are well inside my fenced property and intruders are fair game.)

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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
51. Killing someone for a yard sign doesn't make sense to me.
But it's your choice, I guess.
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The Revolution Donating Member (497 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. This kind of thing just hurts his own religion.
These sorts of incidents are exactly why a lot of people have a negative view of Christianity. Which is sad because it means the messages in the religion about helping the poor and the sick get lost. Does he actually think this is the kind of activity that Jesus would approve of?
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. Methodists?
Must be a little meaner in those parts.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
33. Hey.. Bush calls himself a Methodist, too. n/t
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BrotherBuzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #33
43. Not in these fine people's minds
To: George W. Bush; Richard "Dick" Cheney

George W. Bush, Richard "Dick" Cheney (respondents)
Rev. Mark Craig - Sr. Pastor of Highland Park UMC
Rev. Michael L. Nichols - D.S. of the Dallas South District
Bishop William B. Oden - Bishop of North Texas Annual Conference United
Methodist Council of Bishops

A Letter of Complaint Against George W. Bush and Dick Cheney

We, the undersigned, do hold that George W. Bush, a member of Park Hill
United Methodist Church (UMC) in Dallas, Texas, and Dick Cheney (local
membership unknown) are undeniably guilty of at least four chargeable
offenses for lay members as listed in 2702.3 of the 2000 Book of Discipline of
The United Methodist Church. These offenses are: crime, immorality,
disobedience to the Order and Discipline of The UMC, and dissemination of
doctrine contrary to the established standards of doctrine of The UMC. For
these offenses, we the undersigned call for an immediate and public act of
repentance by the respondents. If the respondents do not reply with sincere
and public repentance for their crimes, we demand that their membership in
the United Methodist Church be revoked until such time that they sincerely
and publicly repent.

Chargeable Offenses

Crime
George W. Bush, in his role as President of the United States of America and
Commander in Chief, and Dick Cheney in his role as Vice-President, led the
United States into an illegal war against the sovereign nation of Iraq. In
article 23 of our Doctrinal Standards and General Rules (2000 Discipline, p.65)
the U.S. government is described as "a sovereign and independent nation,
and ought not to be subject to any foreign jurisdiction." We hold that Iraq is
also a "sovereign and independent nation" and is granted the same rights as
the United States, no matter what anyone's opinion is of its former head of
state. Attacking a sovereign nation except in cases of legitimate self-defense
is a violation of international law. This war, and subsequent occupation,
dishonored the sovereignty of the people of Iraq as world citizens and as
fellow children of God, in violation of Article 23. In Article 15, on page 71 of the
Discipline, we claim to believe that "God is owner of all things and that
individual holding of property is lawful and is a sacred trust under God. Private
property is to be used for the manifestation of Christian love and liberty, and
to support the Church's mission in the world" With no credible army to defend
themselves and no clear evidence that they possessed weapons of mass
destruction, Iraq posed NO threat to our immediate national security. Our
destruction of their property, murder of thousands, torture of many, and
usurpation of their oil fields are unnecessary and deplorable violations of
article 15 and our sacred trust under God to honor liberty, freedom, the
sacred worth of human life and our mission in the world.

While all U.S. citizens bear a degree of responsibility for our invasion of Iraq, it
was George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who initiated, promoted, and led this
illegal war. It is they who bear the fullest responsibility for this crime.

Immorality
As important as identifying the crime of the war itself is, we, the undersigned,
believe it is essential to recognize that Bush and Cheney lied to the American
people in order to push them into the unnecessary war with Iraq. They
actively and intentionally deceived the American public by stressing a
non-existent connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein, by
asserting Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction, and by claiming Iraq
was building a nuclear weapons program.There was no connection between
Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein. There were no weapons
of mass destruction in Iraq, except those used by the United States. There
was no existent nuclear weapons program in Iraq. The purported intelligence
that the Bush administration used to support their claims of immanent threat
had already been effectively debunked by the U.S. intelligence community,
and both Bush and Cheney knew it. Instead of truthfully leading the American
public, Bush and Cheney withheld, manipulated, and fabricated information
about Iraq against the advice of many in the intelligence community in order
to manufacture the lies that they and their administration used to convince
many Americans that war was necessary. If any of these claims were true, in
all likelihood, the repeated inspections by the United Nations and the United
States would have found some credible evidence to support them, but no
such proof has been found.

Disobedience to the Order and Discipline of The UMC, Dissemination of
Doctrine Contrary to the Established Standards of Doctrine of The UMC.

Article 16 in 103, p.71, of the 2000 Discipline states,

We believe civil government derives its just powers from the sovereign God.
As Christians we…believe such governments should be based on, and be
responsible for, the recognition of human rights under God. We believe war
and bloodshed are contrary to the gospel and spirit of Christ. We believe it is
the duty of Christian citizens to give moral strength and purpose to their
respective governments through sober, righteous and godly living.

The illegal war against and occupation of Iraq are clear violations of
international standards of human rights. The advocation and instigation of
such a war by a United Methodist president and vice president, especially with
no serious attempts at peaceful diplomacy, are without question "contrary to
the gospel and spirit of Christ", and consequently chargeable offenses under
our Discipline.

For their malicious deception of the American people, warmongering, rejection
of peaceful diplomacy and numerous violations of international law, George W.
Bush and Dick Cheney are guilty of crimes, immorality, disobedience to the
Order and Discipline of the UMC and dissemination of doctrine contrary to the
established standards of doctrine of the UMC.

In addition to these chargeable offenses, the respondents have repeatedly
violated numerous United Methodist Social Principles. While we understand
that the Social Principles are not church law, we note that at our last General
Conference, many violations of the Social Principles were named under the
chargeable offense of Immorality. Consistent with that precedent, we hold
that the respondents' various and abundant violations of at least the
following Social Principles should be included in a charge of immorality.

Violations of Our Social Principles
(Listed by paragraph number from the 2000 Discipline)

160 I. The Natural World

Therefore, let us recognize the responsibility of the church and its members to
place a high priority on changes in economic, political, social, and technological
lifestyles to support a more ecologically equitable and sustainable world
leading to a higher quality of life for all of God's creation."

From pushing for drilling in ANWAR to deregulating polluting industries and
cutting funding for toxic waste cleanup, the Bush administration has
consistently been an anti-environment administration. These policies show
their level of care for God's creation.

162 III. The Social Community

I) Population. People have the duty to consider the impact on the total world
community of their decisions regarding childbearing and should have access to
information and appropriate means to limit their fertility, including voluntary
sterilization.

George W. Bush has vetoed Federal funding directed toward family planning
in third world countries, saying that the funding is used to support the killing
of infants in China. His claim is false.

164 V. The Political Community

A.) Basic Freedoms and Human Rights-We hold governments responsible for
the guarantee of the rights to adequate food, clothing, shelter, education,
and health care.

Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress have cut funding for social
programs that guarantee these rights and diverted it toward war and huge
tax cuts for corporations and the super-wealthy.

We also strongly reject domestic surveillance and intimidation of political
opponents by governments in power and all other misuse of elective or
appointive offices. The use of detention and imprisonment for harassment and
elimination of political opponents or other dissidents violates fundamental
human rights. Furthermore the mistreatment or torture of persons by
governments for any purpose violates Christian teaching and must be
condemned and/or opposed by Christians and churches wherever and
whenever it occurs. For the same reason, we oppose capital punishment and
urge its elimination from all criminal codes.

The Bush administration, through the Patriot Act, has violated the
constitutional freedoms of persons residing in the U.S., making it easier for
the government to spy on and intimidate any opponents of this administration
and its policies. Furthermore, the Bush administration has encouraged a
climate in which any rightful opponents to their illegal and heinous actions are
labeled as "unpatriotic" or "anti-American". This climate has also lead to the
harassment and torture of prisoners of war, sometimes consisting of physical
and sexual abuse.

Finally, the Bush administration is a strong supporter of capital punishment.

C) Freedom of Information-Citizens of all countries should have access to all
essential information regarding their government and its policies. Illegal and
unconscionable activities directed against persons or groups by their own
governments must not be justified or kept secret, even under the guise of
national security.

As mentioned previously, Bush and his administration withheld, manipulated,
and fabricated information in order to push the American people into an illegal
war. This is clearly an unconscionable activity directed against us by our own
government officials.

D) Education-We believe responsibility for education for the young rests with
the family, the church , and the government. In our society , this function can
best be fulfilled through public policies that ensure access for all persons to
free public elementary and secondary schools and to post-secondary schools
of their choice. Persons in our society should not be precluded by financial
barriers.

Bush and Cheney, when campaigning for office, claimed that they would
support education, but while they have been in office, funding for education
has declined as a direct result of their irresponsible tax cuts for the
super-wealthy, making it much more difficult for poorer people to receive
quality educations. They also support the use of education vouchers, which
The United Methodist Church is against.

F) Criminal and Restorative Justice. To protect all persons from encroachment
upon their personal and property rights, governments have established
mechanisms of law enforcement and courts. We reject all misuse of these
mechanisms including their use for the purpose of revenge of for persecuting
or intimidating those whose race, appearance, lifestyle, economic conditions,
or beliefs differ from those in authority.

As Governor of the state with the most prisoner executions of any in the
nation, George W. Bush was proud of his role in Texas' judicial system and
confident that it was unflawed. His reckless disregard for human life and his
reliance on punitive measures has carried over into his role as President.
Since 9/11, Bush's idea of justice in all cases has been "hunt them down and
make them pay", even toward those who have not been proven guilty, such
as the thousands of Iraqi and Afghani civilians killed by our military or the
hundreds of prisoners of war who have been harassed, abused, or held
without charges or access to counsel, clearly violating international law.

G) Military Service-We deplore war and urge the peaceful settlement of all
disputes among nations. We also respect those who support the use of force,
but only in extreme situations and only when the need is clear beyond
reasonable doubt, and though appropriate international organizations.

This was a unilateral war in which the Bush administration ignored both the
United Nations and a vast segment of the American people who opposed the
war.

165 VI. The World Community

C) War and Peace-We believe war is incompatible with the teachings and
example of Christ. We therefore reject war as a usual instrument of national
foreign policy and insist that the first moral duty of all nations is to resolve by
peaceful means every dispute that arises between or among them; that
human values must outweigh military claims as governments determine their
priorities; that the militarization of society must be challenged and stopped;
that the manufacture, sale, and deployment of armaments must be reduced
and controlled; and that the production, possession, or use of nuclear
weapons be condemned. Consequently, we endorse general and complete
disarmament under strict and effective international control.

Bush and Cheney have used war as a usual instrument of foreign policy. They
are for the militarization of society. They advocate the production of yet more
nuclear weapons, so-called "usable nukes" or "bunker busters". The only
disarming they want to occur is the disarmament of nations that they have
labeled as "evil". Ironically, this disarmament had already occurred in Iraq
through "strict and effective international control", but Bush and Cheney still
insisted that unilateral war was absolutely necessary.

D) Justice and Law. Believing that international justice requires the
participation of all peoples, we endorse the United Nations and its related
bodies and the International Court of Justice as the best instruments now in
existence to achieve a world of justice and law.

Again, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney ignored the U.N. and violated
international law in their push to go to war with Iraq.

In Conclusion

We, the undersigned, are also very much disturbed by President Bush's many
references to the significance of Christian faith in the decisions that he has
made as President of the United States. George W. Bush has called Jesus his
"favorite philosopher", said that Jesus changed his life, and that his decisions
are often guided by prayer. In fact, we feel that most of his actions as
president have directly contradicted the philosophy of Jesus. Jesus said to
feed, clothe, and shelter the "least of these", not to starve, strip, and bomb
them.

We are also concerned that the respondents seem completely ignorant of
their denomination's stances on many weighty moral issues and have
consistently ignored the advice and pleadings of their own Council of Bishops.
We, the undersigned, recognize that the Methodist tradition is founded on
both support and accountability. Our leaders and our members have tried to
support the respondents with prayers and petitions, but we fear it has been
to no avail. At this point, we cannot be expected to "encourage and enjoin
obedience to the powers that be" (2000 Discipline, p.66) when they are
reckless and irresponsible with power given them by our democratic process.

Now is the time to hold them accountable, or to be judged ourselves by God
for not doing so.

//signed//
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. Could you find a link for this?
Edited on Sun Oct-31-04 11:23 PM by prolesunited
I would hate to have it repeated without outside verification.

Thanks! :hi:
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Daocrat Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. I understand totally.
It's a local story at the moment, and I can't find anything on Google yet. I will keep looking, though. I heard this on the 10 o' clock news here in Huntsville, AL. It was on one of our local stations, but unfortunately, I can't recall which. This story is late-breaking, and hopefully a link will appear soon.
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Daocrat Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #19
31. I've called every local station
Channel 19 (WHNT Huntsville, CBS affiliate) and channel 48 (WAFF Huntsville, NBC affiliate) did not carry the story. Channel 48 described it as "a rumor," while channel 19 told me that channel 31 (WAAY-TV Huntsville, ABC affilate) ran the story. My calls to channel 31, who ran the story, have not been answered. The phone just rings and rings. More as this develops.
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Daocrat Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #31
45. UPDATE
As of 11:30 Central time, WAAY-31 TV Huntsville, Alabama, has confirmed this story to me verbally over the phone. When I finally got through, the person I spoke to seemed extremely reluctant to comment and placed me on hold several times to consult with others. After several minutes, I was told that the the story involves the youth pastor at the Owens Crossroads United Methodist Church in the Huntsville area of Alabama, and that the church had officially "declined to comment." However, the representative of WAAY-TV stated that both the senior pastor and the youth pastor had "apologized for their misconduct" and admitted guilt.

When I asked whether this story would appear on the WAAY-TV website, the person told me that "she may" decide to put the story online.
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tech3149 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. How sad
He apparently hasn't learned much from the Bible and his pastor hasn't provided much guidance. I hope the members of the church help them to see the error of their ways.
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Daocrat Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. I'll be following the news
For further information about this. This guy should quite certainly be fired, and probably jailed. If I don't hear any more about it, I will go to the regional council that governs his church myself. "Letters of apology" aren't going to cut it. This guy encouraged kids to steal property and destroy it. He is a corruptor of minors, a religious hypocrite, and a vandal, among other things. If others don't make sure this guy gets fired at the very least, I'll do it myself.

If I had done this to Bush signs, I'd be in jail as we speak (because I am poor). This "religious leader" still has his job. Not for long!
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T Bone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. This church needs to post the 10 commandments on THEIR lawn
Maybe this freak would stop by it and read the one that says,

'Thou shall not Steal'


Anytime you meet someone outraged about not being able to stick a rock with the 10 commandments on the courthouse lawn, ask them how many of their churches have a rock with the 10 commandments on it out on their CHURCH LAWN ??

hmmmmm....???????????
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Technowitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
17. Theft is theft...
...and telling kids to steal signs is:

(1) Conspiracy to commit a crime
(2) Corrupting the morals of a minor
(3) Larceny

That jerk needs to spend a little time in a courtroom, methinks.

And to have a wee chat with the god he purports to worship.
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Zero Division Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
18. The addition of burning the signs is especially disturbing
:wtf:
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durablend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Not surprising from "their" (repuke) mindset...
Some of them are quite fond of "burning" things...
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Randi_Listener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. No shit.
Time to "String one up" next. Nice example Alatucky.
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Yeah, burning things as a protest in Alabama is definitely disturbing
..brings up a lot of imagery from the not-so-distant past, when churches were bombed, people were lynched, and crosses were burned in people's yards.
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
21. What part of Alabama?
If north (Birmingham area), let Bishop Will Willimon know immediately!

Actually, the proper chain of command is:
1. Complain to local church (pastor-in-charge)
2. Contact District Superintendent's office
3. Contact Bishop's office

If the youth pastor is ordained, he/she can be in for a bit of trouble. If it's a hired position (non-ordained), then it's strictly a local church issue, and is handled thru the Staff-Parish Relations Committee.

TOLD them to STEAL????? and DESTROY????
Someone's in a shitload of trouble.

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helnwhls Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
24. wah? I guess nobody had any books to burn.
Will there be any charges brought for encouraging minors to break the law?
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. I think this is the mindset we'll be dealing with after Tuesday
no matter who wins.

This is a struggle America is going to have to deal with.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
27. Apology my ass. He needs to pay to replace the signage.
Then he should drive the little brats around so they can replace them.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
28. Where does he live (town) and what is the name of the church?
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gardenia Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
29. So Much For the Rule of Law
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Maiden England Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
30. that's terrible
I hope they fire his a$$.
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ogsball Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
32. I was a Youth Pastor and did stupid things all the time
Certainly wasn't well thought out but the guy wasn't thinking. I would expect him to make reparations though.
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requiem99 Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. If you commit a crime, "I wasn't thinking" is not an excuse.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. A youth pastor absolutely should know better...
..that's no excuse. It's disgusting.
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GreenPoet64 Donating Member (897 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
36. I quoted Ghandi earlier tonight . . .
"I'd be a Christian, if it weren't for the Christians." Ghandi
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
38. He should be arrested.
Contributing to the deliquincy of minors, inciting to trespassing, vandalism, and destruction of private property.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
39. this is why I ditched the Christian Church..
I learned at an early age they were only tax free political organizations, not messengers of brotherly love or even forgiveness. :evilgrin:
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. Okay, but don't confuse them with Christians.
There really are some. Not me. But there are some.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #42
49. don't confuse evil with Bush..
nor Cheney with attempts to show kindness with his daughter..
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
41. Contributing to the delinquency of a minor is a criminal charge.
Is he out on bail?

He was corrupting children. He was employing children in a criminal enterprise. This man needs to do time.

The minister who has not fired this "youth pastor" needs to be fired.

I have an idea, spread the word that he's a communist...no respect for private property.

Sometimes I'm just mean and nasty.
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
44. Link for confirmation?
Can't find anything at all on this in multiple news searches. Was the church in Huntsville or some other town? Do you have any names or other details that would help in gathering coverage on this story (name of church, youth minister, neighborhood, anything...)?
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Daocrat Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
46. UPDATE
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 01:01 AM by Daocrat
As of 11:30 Central time, WAAY-31 TV Huntsville, Alabama, has confirmed this story to me verbally over the phone. When I finally got through, the person I spoke to seemed extremely reluctant to comment and placed me on hold several times to consult with others. After several minutes, I was told that the the story involves the youth pastor at the Owens Crossroads United Methodist Church in the Huntsville area of Alabama, and that the church had officially "declined to comment." However, the representative of WAAY-TV stated that both the senior pastor and the youth pastor had "apologized for their misconduct" and admitted guilt.

When I asked whether this story would appear on the WAAY-TV website, the person told me that "she may" decide to put the story online.

The number for WAAY-31 TV, who originally ran this story on their 10 o'clock news in Huntsville, is (256) 533-3131. You may want to ask them to stand by their story, and for further information. The number for the Owens Crossroads United Methodist Church is (256) 725-4422. You may want to express your concerns about this highly inappropriate behavior to the senior pastor and the youth pastor.

Please do not call these numbers frivolously, but only with any legitimate, sincere, and genuine inquiries into the story, and/or polite (but not necessarily supportive) comments for the alleged participants. Please remember that no charges have been filed (yet). These are publlically-available, listed phone numbers, and I am posting them in response to a news story reported on WAAY-TV channel 31 Huntsville, and I hereby disclaim any liability that may arise from posting these publically-available telephone numbers.
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #46
52. Methinks this is not your average United Methodist Church
Senior pastor is apparently a member (and available speaker for) of the Confessing Movement of the UMC, which is basically a fundamentalist, evangelical group of UMC clergy who want to "reclaim" the denomination from all those other bad pastors and lay leaders who believe in inclusiveness and tolerance.

More here:

http://www.confessingumc.org/index.htm
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Oddman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
47. Isn't organized religion refreshing?
My pedophile priest also wanted Kerry signs taken down.
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. Next thing you know, they'll be ordering the rounding up and
burning of "witches" (i.e., Democrats & Athiests). It's kind of a joke, but not really.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
48. False prophets
I'm not a religious person but these types (and they exist in all religions) are who Jesus warned about:

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." -Matthew 7:15-23
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
53. What's next, burning crosses? Books? Witches?
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 01:30 AM by rezmutt
This kind of zealous medieval behavior makes me want to spew.

The "youth pastor" should be arrested for destruction of private property, not to mention his illegal behavior in encouraging minors to break the law. :grr:
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LiberalAndProud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
54. Would this be many counts of contributing to the delinqency of a minor?
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
55. Holy Moly!! This church is a POLLING SITE!
If the press was hesitant to cover this story before, the fact that Cove United Methodist Church in Owens Crossing (Huntsville area), Alabama is a polling site for local voters should push them off the fence.

http://www.co.madison.al.us/voter/polplace.shtml

If I've got the wrong church, let me know (and apologies will abound). But I'm pretty sure this is the one in the story you heard on the news tonight. Please keep us updated!
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Daocrat Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. There isn't as connection AFAIK
The person at WAAY-31 TV specifically mentioned "Owens Crossroads United Methodist Church."

Based on my study of the 2004-2005 Huntsville Area Yellow Pages, under "Churches," it appears that "Cove United Methodist Church" is a separate church in the Hampton Cove area. This is a rich area and is some distance from the Owens Crossroads location.
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southlandshari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #56
62. I stand corrected!
Some of the hits I got on a search for Owens Crossing and United Methodist Church came up with Cove UMC, and a lot I read pointed to this church being much more conservative than the average UMC congregation (even for Alabama), so I thought this might be the one.

Apologies to Cove UMC for jumping to conclusions!
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Daocrat Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 03:14 AM
Response to Original message
57. Just watched a re-broadcast of the news
The youth pastor's name is B.J. Storey.
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 05:56 AM
Response to Original message
59. Churches that engage in partisan activities should pay taxes. Period.
I'm the director of a small library. Most of my staff are ardent liberals but because we are tax exempt, we walk the tightrope between making sure people have the information they need and avoiding doing anything that is blatently partisan. For example, we provide voter registration forms and absentee ballot requests at the circulation desk as well as fliers listing voters rights. We provide information from a wide variety of sources and all ranges of opinion from Rush Limbaugh to Michael Moore.

Churches should play by the same rules. It is fine for a preacher to preach that abortion is a sin. It is fine for a preacher to urge his congregation to vote. It is absolutely wrong for the preacher to tell them who to vote for or as in this case to actively work against another candidate.

This church should be treated like the partisan organization that it is.


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Jon8503 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #59
61. Absolutely Totally Agree With You. Read the other day how
the IRS was going after the NCAAP on their tax exempt status because of their criticism of Bush. It appears the Church's are very much involved in this campaign and their tax exempt status should be looked at.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:47 AM
Response to Reply #59
66. I agree.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
60. And this man calls him self a man of God?
This is what religion has come to.
I walked out of church yesterday, after the associate minister gave his sermon on GREED and then in the stood on the pulpit and talked about how great and powerfull bush was and how excited he was to meet him. It was the straw that broke my back.
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drdigi420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
63. typical religious hypocrite
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misterphelps Donating Member (194 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
64. "sorry" gets him off the hook?
What? Is there a mini-me AssCrop attorney general in Alabama? Somehow being a mail order pastor makes you exempt from the law?

Why do I think the reaction would be different if they were making a bonfire with */ Cheney signs? Call Tom Ridge!
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juslikagrzly Donating Member (646 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
67. Someone should send this to AAR
TruthOut, etc. etc. etc.
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TexasSissy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
68. That's a criminal offense. And certainly not Christian. But it is Nazi-
like.
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wellstone_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
69. I-R-S: call them and let them sort out possible violations
maybe your local church would like to either:
a. pay taxes since their clergy is in the political business
or
b. get a youth pastor with some damn sense


a letter is easy to write, let's see them face some real consequences.
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Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #69
73. Instead of IRS go here...everything is kept confidential....But Report it.
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 09:10 AM by Tippy
< http://www.au.org/site/PageServer >

On Edit: Added info

They have an e-mail you can send, but find the phone # ...and call them please ,we must put a stop to this madness...
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Harlan James Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
70. The "Youth Pastor" Belongs In Jail
When he shows up with his letter you should have his miserable ass arrested.
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AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
71. Throw his ass in jail; same with the kids
This is the equivalent of a book burning.

PRESS CHARGES AGAINST THIS ASSHOLE. SCREW THE "APOLOGY."

This is truly frightening because there will be much more of this shit going on if Bush wins. Count on it.
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
74. I have contacted his bishop, and hope to hear a response.
I have also contacted the United Methodist News Service, alerting them to this story. If it gets out to the mainstream media, this will probably get real big, really fast.

Keep this story kicked!!
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
75. This story is appalling on so many levels
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 11:41 AM by txindy
That youth pastor, and his supervisor, need to be bought up on charges. The only thing they 'regret' is being caught. This wasn't a spur-of-the-moment act, this was well-planned. The pastors and the children (through their parents, if necessary) need to answer for what they've done. Period.
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Daocrat Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
76. UPDATE 2
Bizarrely, the story seems to have simply VANISHED.

No other local news channels are reporting on this, and I can't find any links anywhere. What is going on here?

In my mind, there are two possibilities:

1. WAAY-TV got this story wrong, or reported incorrect information in some manner, and are now hoping the story just goes away. However, this seems unlikely, given that the news broadcast revealed the name of the youth pastor and the church, thereby opening themselves up to a potential libel suit if the incident didn't actually happen. I find it hard to believe that the TV station would expose themselves to that kind of legal risk. The news broadcast claimed that the pastors involved had "admitted wrongdoing," so they must have had something to go on.

2. The second possibility is that local news services have been told to "drop" this story. By whom or for what reason, I can only speculate. I do, however, know that this story seems to have dried up overnight. Something like this ought to be all over the place, but it is nowhere. Were local media told to forget about it? If so, by whom?

I will continue looking into this. My next step will be to call our local Democratic headquarters and try to find out whether the promised "apology" was ever delivered. Due to the fact that this story has seeemingly vanished from the media, I'd be hesitant to pursue any further action until we can get some more confirmation.
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