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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
FatSlob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:11 PM
Original message
Damn, we lost my neighbor.
One of my neighbors is a school teacher. She has been a reliable "D" voter for years. She told me, today, that she is voting for Bush because "I don't want a liberal appointing liberals to the Supreme Court. They should take a narrow view of the Constitution." She was swayed by Rhenquists (spelling?) illness. Damn. What should I say to get her back?
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newsguyatl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. nothing, let her dumbass go.
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BayStateBoy Donating Member (562 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. Tell Her When Her Civil Rights Are Threatened She'll Regret ****
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. If you are not in a swing state let her go
It's too late to worry about defections in states like Nebraska or Rhode Island.
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frogfromthenorth2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. You should say " YOU'RE AN IDIOT!"
but that's me....
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TheWebHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. tell her they need to be approved by the senate
which will likely still have a republican majority, so a "liberal" judge won't be appointed, but rather a moderate (ie. not a Scalia or Thomas)
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. Dig up Rehnquist's record.
Lots of racism & dirty AZ politics in his past.

Dig up stuff on Tony Scalia & Opus Dei.

Ask her if this is what she means by "conservative."
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kokomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. Let her teach the little children.
Maybe she likes politicians evesdropping on her and her doctor.
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kwolf68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
7. Oh lord

A "reliable" D doesn't opine about strict interpretation of the Constitution.

That is one of the chief differences in the two parties. We believe society grows, evolves, learns....They believe we should be constrained to the interpretation of rules laid down well over 200 years ago when this was a MUCH different world.

It's thought-provoking to be a "Liberal" because things are NOT black and white. People who love it black and white simply don't want to think, or cant.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. "No Child Left Behind."
Sorry, she's a dimwit.
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. If she's been voting Democratic for years, why does she have trouble...
with liberal Supreme-Court appointments? The two have gone historically hand-in-hand.

And, if she wants a narrow view of the Constitution, how does she feel about the right-wing's desire to tack on a phony and hateful marriage amendment to the venerable document?
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pelagius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Marriage amendment issue is...
...an important one, if she truly is concerned about the Constitution. A lot of right-wingers don't like that one, either.
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. The neocon view of the Constitution is radical and based on religious
Edited on Mon Nov-01-04 07:18 PM by troublemaker
fundamentalism. The men who wrote Constitution cleverly designed it to be a living document that would grow to meet new environments.

Modern "conservatives" claim it should be treated as a religious dogma rather than a plan for a government. (Except for the hundreds of instances where they would prefer to throw out parts they happen to disagree with.)

If Jefferson or Madison were alive to day he would spit on these hypocritical so-called constructionists.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. Here's a short incomplete list of liberal accomplishments last century
Interstate Highway System: Proposed by Roosevelt and erected by Eisenhower (a Republican), the Interstate system was a big government project.

GI Bill: This act of Congress enabled millions upon millions of Americans to get college educations, something that most Americans had never had the opportunity to do previously.

Labor Laws: An end to child labor, 40 hour work weeks, the right of employees to collectively bargain, overtime pay, workplace safety, all of the things we take for granted today are thanks to liberal laws passed in the first half of this century.

Marshall Plan: rebuilt Europe, and is the major reason that Communism never made it past East Berlin.

Environmental Laws:The environment has gotten much better in the last 30 years thanks to liberals. Bald Eagles fly once again thanks to endangered species laws, most rivers and lakes are clean again due to anti-pollution laws, and frequent smog days are a thing of the past in most big American cities.

Food safety laws: Today cases of food poisoning are rare, and consumers know that whatever they buy is safe to eat.

Workplace safety laws: Long hours in unsafe conditions are much rarer today than in the past.

Economic Growth: Liberalism and economic prosperity go hand-in-hand. Unlike the pseudo-boom of the 1980's, the 1950's and 1960's were a period of sustained and real growth for all sectors of the economy and all social classes.

Space Program: If you are reading this on a computer, thank the space program and the liberals who got it going.

Civil rights movement: Liberal ideals drove the biggest change in American society since the Civil War, the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s.

The fight against Totalitarianism: Under the leadership of Roosevelt and Truman, we won.

The Tennessee Valley project:The Depression-era government program bought electricity to thousands of impoverished families in Appalachia, prevented floods, and created thousands of new jobs.

Women's right to vote: Before 1920, half of America's population could not exercise the essential duty of citizenship.

Universal Public Education: The reason America is so strong economically is because we have a well-educated citizenry.

National Weather Service:
This is one of those things you never think about, but you are glad its there.

Product Labeling/Truth in Advertising Laws

Public Health: Government funded water and sewage systems are an important part of modernity. In addition, organizations such as the National Institute of Health and the Center for Disease Control play an important part in maintaining the national health and preventing epidemics through research, vaccination programs, etc.

Rural Electrification:This allowed remote, rural areas of the country the basic convinience of electricity.

Bank Deposit Insurance

Earned Income Tax Credit

Also send her this:

"A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN"

Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.

All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too.

He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air.

He walks on the government-provided sidewalk to subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.

If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It is noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe also forgets that his in addition to his federally subsidized student loans, he attended a state funded university.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards to go along with the tax-payer funded roads.

He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans.

The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."
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CitySky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. I appreciate this
Long post, dear Vet, but I think this is an important discussion for us to be having on DU -- get down to what government really does do for us.

Certain folks would like to see the government small enough to "drown in a bathtub." Well seeing as how there wouldn't be any WATER in that tub without government, we don't need to worry about that happening any time soon. But we Dems need to remind folks just what it is our taxes pay for (other than wars!)

I look forward to discussing this with DUers more AFTER the election, while President Kerry is in office, to restore these ideas to the national dialogue...
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yankeedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. Give her a ride to the polling place
But not HER polling place. Get it?
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kevin881 Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. shes a teacher... shes in the teacher's union... remind her that * is....
... a union buster.
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chuckhoward Donating Member (74 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. You might want to ask her about...
...how she feels about such terrible SCOTUS decisions like Brown v. Board of Ed. when compared to wonderful conservative court decisions like Plessey v. Ferguson. (please bear with the sarcasm)

You might also ask her about liberal pinko decisions like Griswold v. Connecticut which struck down a state law criminalizing the act of counseling married couples about birth control. (yeah, more sarcasm)

Is she pro-choice? Then remind her of Roe v. Wade.

You may also tell her that it was the court which paved the way for child labor laws and the minimum wage -- we're going back to FDR now.

There's more. But I'm not sure how Democratic this supposed life-long Dem really is.
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FatSlob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. More info on her.
She is very Catholic, vehemently opposed to abortion. She teaches in a nearly all-black school. She loves her union. She is opposed to gay marriage, but thinks that it is none of the government's business. She doesn't fit neatly into either party, but has almost always voted Democrat. She said she voted for Carter in 1980, Reagan in '84, against Bush Sr. in '88, for Clinton both times and for Gore.
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FatSlob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
17. We're in Ohio...thanks for all the suggestions.
I'll mull this over carefully, and go over to her home with a beer. We'll discuss politics on the front porch on this glorious fall evening. I'll do my best and hope for the best. Thanks to all.
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CitySky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. more good stuff
www.securitymomsforkerry.com

* hasn't FUNDED No Child Left Behind. Under "more of the same", public schools will simply fail, and the resources will flow FROM them at a faster rate.

The actual number of abortions happening rises when poverty rises -- like during these last 4 years.

Some Dems who personally oppose abortion (like yours truly :hi:) think the best way to approach it as a society is to work on reducing the DEMAND instead of the SUPPLY.

And finally, as I once blurted to Governor Dean: The Bible has a lot more to say about MONEY than it does about sex! Greed, oppression of the poor, exploitation of workers -- these things got nations into big trouble with God in OT times. The Catholic Church has a long social justice tradition. Some may be abandoning it, but it is part of their roots.

God bless, & good luck.

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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. Ask her if she can look at herself in the mirror when her students
Have to payoff the deficit this stupid mother fucker will run up with wreckless abandon over the next four years, then ask her if she wants to see her students sent all over middle east to die for bush's bizarro world religious ideals and then finally remind her of what "conservative" is supposed to stand for--be sure to point out that this idiot has expanded Government more than anyone since FDR.

If none of that does it then she shouldn't be teaching America's children.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
21. the republicans are just as activist when they want to be
see: Bush v Gore. Hardly a narrow interprepation.

A dem going Bush this year is very odd. Means the propaganda has been working.
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starbuck6446 Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
22. NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND... remind her that her teaching life is hell
under this president. NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND!!!!!!!

If she is a *teacher* voting for BUSH, I'd have to question her ability to teach!!!!!
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. Tell her she's a freaking idiot and to hell with her
RL
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
24. Ask her what she thinks
of No Child Left Behind.

Haven't yet met a school teacher who doesn't hate it.

What else does she like about Bush? His conservative approach to the budget deficit?

I'm quite inclined to say fuck her and forget about her, but if you can have a reasonable conversation with her, you might want to try to get her to understand that Bush has lied from the moment he took the oath of office. Lied about tax cuts benefiting the economy, lied about who was really responsible for 9/11, lied about going after Bin Laden, lied about weapons of mass destruction.

Do a quick google and find one of those Bush resumes, print it out, ask her to read it, and if she still wants to vote for Bush she's a lost cause.
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Langis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
25. What the fuck is wrong with people?
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
26. There are no judges more activist that the right wingers who stole 2000!
She is just repeating stupid talking points that she heard on TV.

Ask her which Supreme Court judges were activist in the 2000 election when Gore got the most votes.

Republicans judges are constantly activist - they are trying to subvert the constitution to grab more power for the Republican Party.

Such ignorance from a teacher!
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
28. You can't be much more activist
than a Supreme Court that ignores years and years of states rights decisions in order to select Bush for office.
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ohio_dem_52186 Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
29. A Killer Ohio Specific "No Child Left Behind" Statistic
The Ohio General Assembly (Republican led...) funded a report on the cost of No Child Left Behind. The bottom line is that Federal funding is $1.4 billion dollars short. Wonder what that will do to teacher salaries and class sizes???

The report is online here on the official Ohio Dept. of Education web site:
http://www.ode.state.oh.us/legislator/Cost_of_Implementing_NCLB.asp

I have a fact-sheet made up for just this occaision:
http://getthefacts.atspace.com/Education%20Reform.htm
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FatSlob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Good one! Thank you.
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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. If she teaches in a Public school and votes for Bush she better expect
her insurance to be cut and her hours extended. She will have
very little to say about her job because he will dis-empower
the union.It's quite a nightmare. This right wing agenda.
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. Tell her Bush is planning to cut $1.5 BILLION from school
funding next year, and there's a good chance she could lose her job if chimpy gets in.
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bobbyboucher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
32. All right, I'll say it.........Bullshit!
That sounds like a bunch of crap to me, sorry.
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Doohickie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
34. Lose one, win one:
My fiercely independent coworker said he voted early- he held his nose and voted Kerry.
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