The Jim Crow Republicans just stole Ohio. There will be violence.

[geek tragedy]

EVERY black voter in Ohio will undergo an intense grilling tomorrow. The Rethuglicans will bring voting to a halt by obstructing the voting process. Read the statutory language:

<snip>
Any person offering to vote may be challenged at the polling place by any challenger, any elector then lawfully in the polling place, or by any judge or clerk of elections. If the board of elections has ruled on the question presented by a challenge prior to election day, its finding and decision shall be final and the presiding judge shall be notified in writing. If the board has not ruled, the question shall be determined as set forth in this section. If any person is so challenged as unqualified to vote, the presiding judge shall tender the person the following oath: "You do swear or affirm that you will fully and truly answer all of the following questions put to you, touching your place of residence and your qualifications as an elector at this election."




(A) If the person is challenged as unqualified on the ground that the person is not a citizen, the judges shall put the following questions:




(1) Are you a citizen of the United States?




(2) Are you a native or naturalized citizen?




(3) Where were you born?




If the person offering to vote claims to be a naturalized citizen of the United States, the person shall, before the vote is received, either produce for inspection of the judges a certificate of naturalization and declare under oath that the person is the identical person named therein, or state under oath when and where the person was naturalized, that the person has had a certificate of the person's naturalization, and that it is lost, destroyed, or beyond the person's power to produce to the judges. If the person states under oath that, by reason of the naturalization of the person's parents or one of them, the person has become a citizen of the United States, and when or where the person's parents were naturalized, the certificate of naturalization need not be produced.




(B) If the person is challenged as unqualified on the ground that the person has not resided in this state for thirty days immediately preceding the election, the judges shall put the following questions:




(1) Have you resided in this state for thirty days immediately preceding this election? If so, where have you resided? Name two persons who know of your place of residence.




(2) Have you been absent from this state within the thirty days immediately preceding this election? If yes, then the following questions:




(a) Have you continuously resided outside this state for a period of four years or more?




(b) Did you, while absent, look upon and regard this state as your home?




(c) Did you, while absent, vote in any other state?




(C) If the person is challenged as unqualified on the ground that the person is not a resident of the county or precinct where he offers to vote, the judges shall put the following questions:




(1) Do you now reside in this county?




(2) Do you now reside in this precinct?




(3) When you came into this precinct, did you come for a temporary purpose merely or for the purpose of making it your home?




(D) If the person is challenged as unqualified on the ground that the person is not of legal voting age, the judges shall put the following question:




Are you eighteen years of age or more to the best of your knowledge and belief?




The presiding judge shall put such other questions to the person challenged under respective heads designated by this section, as are necessary to test the person's qualifications as an elector at the election. If a person challenged refuses to answer fully any question put to the person, is unable to answer the questions as they were answered on the registration form by the person under whose name the person offers to vote, refuses to sign the person's name or make the person's mark, or if for any other reason a majority of the judges believes the person is not entitled to vote, the judges shall refuse the person a ballot. If a person is disqualified under division (C) of this section because the person does not now reside in the county or precinct, the presiding judge shall inform the person of the person's right to vote in the person's proper county or precinct of residence and instruct the person to contact the appropriate board of elections for information concerning the location of the person's voting precinct.
<snip>

Note the language--ANY VOTER may be challenged. This will easily add 15-20 minutes per voter--making the conducting of the election all but impossible.

It's very hard to refrain from advocating "street justice" for these Bull Connor goons.

[aquart]

1. We've got lawyers, too, yes?

[chicagojoe]

2. No problem. I'll gladly advocate that street justice for you.

[gottaB]

I don't have a problem with that

[Quetzal]

3. The Poll Tax just went from 3 hours to 10

n/t

[maxudargo]

4. Just. Calm. Down.

Get some sleep.

If the poll workers feel the challengers are disrupting the voting process, they can tell them to leave.

If thugs start causing this kind of problem tomorrow, I'm confident it will back-fire. People are just going to be incensed, I know I would be. Nobody is goin to tolerate it and people with a shakey comittment to Bush will be duly impressed, I'm sure.

[geek tragedy]

7. The poll workers are Republicans too. The chief election judge will be

Republican.

And, there is nothing that says they can't challenge every black voter.

[maxudargo]

12. Why do you say this?

Who says the poll workers and the "chief election judge" will be Republican?

What, do you enjoy being upset?

[geek tragedy]

15. The election judges make the callls--they are split 2 Dem and 2 Rep

Under state law, the chief election judge will be from the governing party, i.e. the Republican party.

And there is nothing they can do about challengers who intentionally challenge every single black/Hispanic/potentially Democratic voter in line. Nothing.

This is all demonstrated in the complaint filed, and rejected by the Rethuglican judges:

http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/docs/Spencer/complaint.pdf

[LittleWoman]

37. It is my understanding

that the presiding judge is from the party which received the majority of votes in the last election, but there is an equal number of Republican and Democratic polling officials. If you have never worked at the polls you might not realize how the dynamics of this all works out. In most cases all the poll workers are united in making sure that people are allowed to vote. The big problem for voters is making sure they are trying to vote in the precinct where they live. If they are not there is nothing the poll workers can do except try to find where they should be. Bring a picture ID and a current utility bill or other official mail, not a letter from a friend, just in case. If you are a naturalized citizen and have a passport bring that as that is what I consider the gold standard. Hold your temper and stand your ground.

[geek tragedy]

43. The big problem is pure logistics. The Rethugs can challenge

each and every voter. 100%.

And there is nothing that can be done about it.

If they challenge that many people, there is no way that people will be able to vote.

The key is to remind the Rethugs that such a strategy is not in their best interest.

[jfern]

16. Back fire? How

They stole Florida 4 years ago, and no one cared!!!!!!

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maxudargo]

30. Fine. I'll go away. You guys sit here and indulge in hysterics.

Have fun!

[geek tragedy]

31. I wish I had your faith in the decency of Republicans.

Because they have been given free reign over the polls in Ohio.

[maxudargo]

35. I have a firm faith that people are not going to just walk away

when somebody tries to prevent them from excercising their right to vote.

[geek tragedy]

36. The problem is that the Republicans can make it physically impossible

for people to vote. They can effectively shut down each and every precinct they want to.

[maxudargo]

39. We'll see.

[gottaB]

44. with respect, I think that's naive

I'd like to believe that too, but the history of disenfranchisement and oppression belies that.

Who are the people that the thugs will be harassing? The affluent? People of high status, those whose beliefs in their entitlements and selfworth have been reinforced at every turn? Of course not. This is a voter suppression method specifically aimed at the least powerful segments of society.

[PretzelWarrior]

that's where you're wrong. if they can drag lines to a crawl w/

their bogus challenges they could really eat into the number of people willing to stand in line like that. they should be stopped immediately. Poll workers are trained. Party hacks should STAY AWAY. EVEN DEMS! Stomp their balls. No surrender

[Nobody]

60. If every voter is being challenged I hope the poll workers eject them

Frivolous challenges should not be allowed.

I'm off to work the polls in MN.

I won't get results until after the polls close. Here's to a Kerry victory!

[lanparty]

58. Identify them ...

Men should take action. Identify these thugs, drag them from the polling place and then make them face the line of voters!!!! Their the mob will judge them!!!!

[Nobody]

64. You're right. Poll workers can eject them for harassment

And now I'm off to work the polls myself.

[w13rd0]

5. If, in practice, the GOP uses this as a "de facto" way of...

...implementing Jim Crow barriers to voting, I do expect that this will not end well...

[aquart]

29. Or it could end brilliantly.

If the rule is that those in line at closing time get to vote, like it is in New York, then the line can last into next WEEK, if the voters have the strength.

What it would amount to is a voting sit in, and the entire world would watch the Republican party disgrace itself. But the voters would still be, eventually, able to vote.

IF the rule is that you can vote if you're still in line at closing.

Embarrass the state. Embarrass the nation. STAY IN THE LINE.

Start lining up restaurants willing to feed the voters. Entertainers with major star power to walk the vote lines. Get volunteers to care for their children. Make phones available to speak to their bosses who MUST ALLOW TIME FOR THEM TO VOTE.

The thieves want Ohio? Make them fight for it.

[maxudargo]

33. This is the scenario I would expect.

If somebody tries to prevent me from voting tomorrow, I'm sure as hell not going to give up and walk away.

Think about how you would feel if somebody is standing there right in front of you trying to prevent you from voting. Would you let them get away with it?

There would be mass outrage. From everyone. Republicans are going to be standing in that line too.

I think you are right, there is great potential for any such activity to back-fire and disgrace the Republicans while preventing very few votes from being cast.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

32. As a practical matter I think there's a limit to how far they can go.

They will be watched very, very closely, and if they don't know that now, they will very soon. There will be monitors and cameras and reporters and lawyers all over the place. And the more they try to suppress the vote the more it will hurt them. They can't cover all the precincts in Ohio, and even if they prevent people from voting in some precincts they will probably inspire greater turnout in others, even in other states, just because the more this gets around the more pissed off people will be.

[geek tragedy]

34. Sure people will be able to vote in predominantly white and Republican

precincts. That's the way the Rethuglicans want it.

We'll still win this election, but this has gone from merely an election to civil war.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Fine. Send a bunch of Dem challengers out to the suburbs.

Challenge all the white voters with their W buttons, make them late for their manicures or golf games. We stop it when they stop it.

[w13rd0]

10. I tend to agree...

...let's challenge the wealthy white landowners and see how much they enjoy it. Today shall be an interesting day...

[VOX]

21. Great idea, ocelot!

:thumbsup:

[geek tragedy]

22. Too late for that--they had to be registered by now.

The only way we can combat this is to put the thugs in mortal fear of their own lives.

[regnaD kciN]

40. Too late!

People had to apply to be a voter monitor such as this. The Republicans did so for virtually every minority or pro-Democratic precinct in the state. Democrats filed similar applications for those same polling places (i.e. not wealthy suburban ones, but the ones the Republicans were going to challenge). However, in a serious miscalculation (and how often have we heard that phrase used regarding Democratic responses to Repug election theft? :-( ), they only applied for the polling places, not the precincts. Since most urban areas have many precincts per polling place, that means that each precinct will have a Republican issuing challenges, and each polling place will have one Democrat attempting to keep tabs on all Republican challengers for precincts at that polling place. Nothing can be done to change that arrangement now, including sending challengers to rich white areas. Sorry.

[high density]

8. Why does the GOP hate freedom?

:shrug:

[intheflow]

13. Reread Orwell's "1984"

Power corrupting and fear for profit and all that kind of stuff.

[regnaD kciN]

41. They don't...they LOVE "freedom"...

...for those who deserve it.

:puke:

[JDPriestly]

9. Singing "We shall overcome"

at the polls hasn't been outlawed, has it?

[psychopomp]

11. Well, it looks like OH will not be decided by nightfall tomorrow...

It is surprising that this judgement stands but not surprising that the GOPers would try to pull a stunt like this!

OH DU'ers need to be at the polls, if possible, to inform people of the proper proceedure.

[Quetzal]

14. Is there any legal recourse that we could take?

Wouldn't we have to appeal to the full 6th circuit before going to SCOTUS?

And since John Paul Stevens's district covers Ohio, he could put a hold on the Republican poll watchers decision by the 6th circuit.

It is well known that the 6th circuit has a fractitious bunch of judges.

[Captain Lance Bass]

17. Chill..........

I know a few of the black voters in OH.
Trust me those guys are the LAST people the goons want to hassle.

[geek tragedy]

20. Violence only serves the interests of the Bush regime.

Violence will shut down the polling place, and nobody will vote.

The only bright side is that there will be a few less Rethugs wasting air.

However, the threat of violence will be essential to keep the process honest.

[Democat]

19. Activist right wing judges strike again, just like 2000!

We cannot let this happen again!

[NightOwwl]

23. With all the media attention

they may think twice about flaunting the fact that the GOP is the party of racism. It's ok behind closed doors, and they probably want to keep it that way.

I think the main purpose of this challenge is to keep voters from coming to polls in the first place. That's what I would be worried about.

[Trahurn]

24. Sorry but you won't get me to agree with you.

Any one that says a state is lost before it actually happens is as big a part of the problem as what trouble looms ahead. Sorry sir but I cannot and will not concede that Ohio is lost and I am disgusted that you have the coconuts to post that crap on DU. I agree things look tough but there is no room for fatalist thinking. You want people to actually stay away from the polls in Ohio? Sure sounds like you do when you conclude it's all lost and not worth the effort. We all did not come this far just to quit. If you want to quit in the face of tough sledding go ahead but that's the Bush way of doing things. Not me. I intend to fight in any way I can.

[sonicx]

27. "I am disgusted"

lighten up. he/she isn't saying stay from the polls. just that the GOP are sick, racist fuckers.

but we'll deal with em.

:grr:

[geek tragedy]

28. I do not advocate quitting. Rather, I advocate extraordinary measures.

Namely, reminding the challengers that the proper fate of a tyrant and his enablers lies at the end of a noose.

[SoCalDem]

25. Like Cheney was a Wyoming resident

:eyes:

Cell phones.. reporters...lawyers... and a ton & a half of patience..

Someone need to ride herd on the end of the lines too.. This is a classice attempt to create logjams in lines..

[HR_Pufnstuf]

26. Did you see the second page of that??? WTF???!!!!!

What is your favorite color?

What is your favorite stuffed animal?

What is the third letter of your middle name?

[hyphenate]

63. What is your quest?

What... is your quest?

To seek the Holy Grail.

What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

What do you mean? An African or European swallow?

:)

[5thGenDemocrat]

38. Don't borrow trouble

I can't speak to Ohio, specifically, nor do I doubt that in some precincts the dinks might not be up to something. BUT...
My friend Carl (who does the grill work at FUNDAY, for those DUers who've attended) will be a poll watcher for the Repubs out in Saginaw Township tomorrow.
Anyone who knows Carl knows he is a Howard Cunningham Republican who, while he'll hold no truck with whatever games we Dems might ostensibly/hypothetically/theoretically try to pull, will also not keep any person of color or leftist political persuasion from casting his or her ballot for our next Chief Executive.
If I believed that for a moment, I'd be out in the streets tonight -- rather than even waiting for the polls to open. In the alternative, he knows I've been working (hard) to get every single possible Dem vote to the polling places tomorrow.
I suspect most Repubs are expending honest effort for precisely the same reasons we are. I believe we have the better product. And I believe that the Dems have run a good campaign.
In short, I believe we'll win tomorrow and win fairly easily. This race is over and we're holding the dry end of the stick. But I want Carl right where he is -- so he knows (and he will know) that THIS election is on the up and up.
There are people of good intention on both sides. There are dogs on both sides, too. It is in our interest and theirs to hold this election above board. God bless Carl for caring enough to get involved. I'd trust him with my property and my secrets because he is a good man -- even if he IS Republican, a fact that matters to us every two years.
We can still be one country, I think. We'll know for sure tomorrow. But I trust Carl and the Republicans like him. Call me naive.
John
Don't pick fights where you don't have to. Give their side a chance to be decent, too. They didn't steal the election in Michigan or Ohio (we won here and they won there last time. By all accounts, fairly, too).

[geek tragedy]

42. This isn't your friend Carl we're dealing with. These are stormtroopers

trained by Karl Rove for the sole purpose of preventing people from voting.

This is a proto-fascist regime doing whatever it can to hold on to power.

[5thGenDemocrat]

48. Well, Ohio must be different than Saginaw, then

Because the vast majority of the Repubs I personally know here are decent people (though misled, perhaps). All I can say is that that kind of crap just doesn't happen here. We'll have a fair election and then live with the results.
Carl would gladly tell Karl Rove (or, say, Tom DeLay) to take a big tasty suck of his fat capitalist ass. I guess we cornpones find good government more important than party loyalty (as such). Sucks to be Ohio (but, as a Michiganian, I already knew that).
Try not to lose sleep unti, you know, they actually steal something. You have no proof they can or will, yet.
John
Our Republicans are damned near as good as our Democrats are here in the Valley. The Democrats just consistently get more folks to the polls (my precinct runs 75-25 Dem, too big to steal).

[amandabeech]

56. I have known plenty of decent Republicans,

both in rural Michigan and in urban New York.

Unfortunately, I've also come across some real slime-balls, including a couple in rural Michigan.

This is a very, very emotionally and ideologically charged election. It will bring out the fringe element in each party, and give them an opportunity to strut their stuff.

In many of the minority and Democratic polling places, the challengers probably won't be from the precincts that vote at the polling place. They may not even be from the same general area.

That means that the challengers will not have to face the election officials or the voters in the supermarket. There will be no consequences for outrageous behavior.

Well, I'm off to challenge at my local precinct here in central PA. I expect that it will be a low-key event. However, I have been told that there is a posse of lawyers ready to ride to my rescue if things get ugly.

Good luck to everyone today!

[HR_Pufnstuf]

49. Can you say Diebold?

That is my biggest worry tomorrow.

Did you know Boulder, CO, is still doing paper, and will not know until Wednesday?

I sure hope the GOTV and Cellphoners make this a landslide, but somehow, between all the polls, and number crunching, I feel like man has cracked the system. If THIS one is close, it goes against History, and perhaps, our forefathers who thought up the Electoral College had NO IDEA COMPUTERS would figure it out.

So, everyone in Colorado, PLEASE VOTE FOR Citizen Initiative 99 and let's put an end to the Electoral College, at least here.

One at a time.

[mtnester]

55. Some of the people her in central Ohio have been FLOWN IN FROM TEXAS

so no, it is NOT decent moderate Republicans doing the honest thing...we have been warned that the challenges will be for every voter in line..and that the potential for violence at the polls is very high, PLUS that idiot George is coming to Columbus for lunch, so in effect that is the same thing as intimidation...traffic stops in the entire county, cops everwhere...as an election protection poll watcher, we will have our hands full ALL DAY

[5thGenDemocrat]

57. Well, okay

Do what you have to do. I'm not an apologist.
Saginaw is one of the keystone cities in this election, and we wouldn't tolerate outsiders coming in to eff with us. You get some Texas cockroaches, you go ahead and step on 'em.
I can't speak to what's happening in central Ohio -- but it's a goddamned shame you all have to put up with carpetbaggers. Good luck and remember it's only thirteen hours.
John
Guaranteeing we deliver Saginaw County (MI) for the Dems, but the Repugs we're dealing with live right down the street. Work hard and bon chance. See you tonight.

[amandabeech]

59. Good, God! Not Texans.

I lived there for a while, and those people are like rabid dogs. Well, at least too many of the Repukes are. And they are repukes.

The bright side is, these people may be so obnoxious that the local Repubs tell them to sit down and shut up.

Or they will escort them out of the polling place.

[regnaD kciN]

45. I'm not sure it will take that long...

This will easily add 15-20 minutes per voter--making the conducting of the election all but impossible.

Unless the person being challenged is a naturalized citizen (which requires documentation), I doubt it would take anywhere near that amount of time. Since the rest of the grounds would merely require the voter to affirm that what they are saying is true, it can probably be handled in less than a minute.

[geek tragedy]

46. They can challenge each voter on every aspect--citizenship, residency etc.

Ohio's law is simply horrible and was intended to suppress voting.

[Radio-Active]

47. Got a link for the source of that?

[geek tragedy]

50. You betcha!

http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=PORC

[gottaB]

51. §3505.20 to be exact

http://onlinedocs.andersonpublishing.com/oh/lpExt.dll/PORC/17a8a/17c3d/17ca3/17cb8?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&2.0#JD_vlsection-0000-350520


The latest news story: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wire/ats-ap_top12nov02,0,2213619.story

[PretzelWarrior]

52. I'm done voting. part of me wants to hop a plane right now....

and head over to an Ohio city so I can bust some heads of those freakish losers who would browbeat people out of their civic right to vote.

GOD, I HATE THE SHITTY PSUEDOPATRIOTIC DOUBLE HEARTED RELIGIOUS FREAKS WHO WEAR A PLASTIC SMILE AND THE EMPTY EYES WITH SATAN BEHIND THEM.

My hope is we can find them all out...neutralize them...and show them how it is done in a DEMOCRACY.

[Merlin]

53. Go for it. I feel the same way but can't.

Can't hurt, and would be a good experience.

[Merlin]

54. We will win this in Ohio. Here are the reasons why.

I grew up outside Cleveland. You can bet that's where they'll be concentrating a lot of their efforts.

One very good thing about Ohio is that it is strongly pro-labor, and these folks will not allow themselves to be intimidated by goons.

Also, the black communities are highly cohesive. So there will be a lot of emotional, legal and practical support for Dem voters who are challenged, and a lot of encouragement for everybody to hang in there.

Let them do there worst. We will do our best!

[Confident]

61. Practical suggestion

If Ohio DUers want to make a difference, instead of just ranting, they should go to heavy Repub precincts and challenge their voters

ALSO - why does everyone seem to think the challenges will be a problem? - I'll bet nearly all of our voters will be able to quickly prove citizenship and residency

[VOX]

62. This will directly result in altercations and fistfights at the polls...

You **know** the kind of overly zealous freeper-fundies who have volunteered to challenge Democratic voters in their own neighborhoods. This will make all the Wal-Mart exchanges reported here look like a kid's game.

They will be rude, obnoxious and confrontational. They will be trying to stir things up, intimidate and create confusion. This is all that they have left in their sorry bag of tricks.

To any and all DUers in Ohio -- please audit this situation minute-by-minute, and document as much of the events as possible -- the election may hinge on your state!