McGovern to endorse Wesley Clark?

[bicentennial_baby]

From a new NYT article:

"Others on the stage included Rahm Emanuel, a former Clinton White House official and now a representative from Illinois; Mickey Kantor, Mr. Clinton's secretary of commerce; John H.Dalton, Mr. Clinton's Navy secretary; Barry Levinson, the film director; Samantha Power, the author of a Pulitzer prize-winning book on genocide; and former Senators Dale Bumpers and David Pryor of Arkansas.

"They are all great Democrats," the general said, bringing his troops to their feet. "And they all agree with me that it's time to put a Democrat back in the White House." General Clark was expected to receive the endorsement of George S. McGovern, the vehemently antiwar Democrat who suffered a landslide defeat to Richard M. Nixon in the 1972 presidential election. Aides to General Clark said that Mr. McGovern would endorse him on Sunday."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/18/politics/campaigns/18HAMP.html

:shrug:

[jmaier]

1. This can't be possible

Haven't you heard, Wes Clark is a Republican. :-)

[RafterMan]

7. Could it be?

Looks like McGovern is more willing to forgive those Nixon votes than some of the people who voted for him.

[Leilani]

16. McGovern was a real hero in WW II

People never understood how brave he had been.

[Hawkeye-X]

17. So much for the Dean-McGovern meme

But it is the truth and karma that this endorsement speaks the truth. It is the McGovern curse that will make Clark lose the GE if he is nominated.

Dean is the only candidate that has not been cursed with poor endorsements yet. Many of the endorsements are truly diverse and sends a clear message that we should all unite with Dean because of his organization and issues.

Hawkeye-X

[jmaier]

19. This is a very selective view of current events

I'm not a big fan or a big opponent of endorsements. Generally, they just are what they are and don't amount to much with respect to final outcomes, but I have to make a rare critical comment here. These BIG endorsements for Gov Dean were from folks who, unlike McGovern, couldn't win the nomination:

Harkin - wiped out in '92 by Clinton
Bradley - swamped by Gore in '2000

BTW: Madonna, George McGovern, Michael Moore are pretty diverse. :-)

[Leilani]

43. Huh?

That is the most twisted logic I have heard yet for supporting Dean.

[Tim_in_HK]

64. I guess endoresements are

in the eye of the beholder.

[KittyWampus]

70. Hey! They Both Sat On The Board of the NED

they both must be PNAC plants.

[Renew Deal]

2. Whoa

Is that big news? It is interesting.

[jmaier]

4. As a rule

I don't think most endorsements are big news. But when you have folks like Andy Young and George McGovern supporting you as the Democratic nominee, it's makes the whole "Clark is a Republican whine" seem pretty silly.

[Democrats unite]

9. It was silly in the beginning...

now it's just down right laughable!

[Dookus]

3. That'd be awesome...

McGovern is one of my real heroes.

[Kathleen04]

5. Why..

is it in the past tense?

This would be an interesting endorsement. :)

[mmonk]

6. Well bust my buttons

ain't that a kicker.

[Maddy McCall]

8. Wow! That is all I can say. WOW!

[Jerseycoa]

22. jchild

George McGovern has done something for you. I can't quite put my finger on it. ;)

[Maddy McCall]

55. That's a major endorsement for clark. A HUGE one.

Not a lightweight Dem, but a heavyweight. Wow!

[Jerseycoa]

10. Um

:wow:

[oxymoron]

11. I'm very impressed!

Congrats to all the Clark folks.

[Jerseycoa]

12. Thank you very much

:)

[Tom Rinaldo]

21. Yes, Thank You.

I was impressed that Dean got Ann Richards.

[Shanty Oilish]

13. 1000 percent!!

:spank: Sorry couldn't resist :)

[Gore1FL]

30. <snort> Good One DC!

I wonder who Eagleton will endorse

[Mattforclark]

14. Wesley Clark, the Moore/Mcgovern backed "Republican"

I can tell you straight up that he's my kind of "Republican" - the liberal/Democratic kind.

This is great :)

[11cents]

15. Wow ....

Ain't it a funny world.

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. Sure is.

Dean, who is accused of being "another McGovern", and who has been known to rail against Washington insiders and the DLC, gets charter DLC member, spent my life in Washington, Al Gore's endorsement, while Clark, an ex-Nixon voter, who is accused of being a Republican, gets the real deal George McGovern's endorsement.

I have great respect for George McGovern. I know he has less political power than Al Gore, but I respect him more. Hope it's true.

[Progressive420]

20. George McGovern

Is a true Democrat and a real anti-war candidate i really look up to him even though he really lost in 72 he is one of the great democrats and he is an awesome endorsement for Clark

[sandnsea]

23. That would be impressive for Clark

Truly impressive. McGovern. Wow!

[mikehiggins]

25. Let's see it happen before we all start jumping for joy

Remember how Carter was supposed to endorse somebody tomorrow?

There is many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.

This could just as easily be a misunderstanding between the Clark camp and McGovern.

It's like second place (or first place) in New Hampshire: I'll believe it when I see it.

[Tatiana]

24. Wow! Almost too incredible to believe???

McGovern to endorse Clark????

This campaign never ceases to amaze me :)

If true, congrats to Clark. I respect McGovern very much.

[Nashyra]

26. This would help Clark in the primaries

and I don't think it will hurt him in the GE. Any rhetoric that they throw Clark in the GE about being against the Iraq war would be playing right into his hands.

[arewethereyet]

82. I'd have to disagree about the GE impact

and I'm not so sure its a plus for the primaries

[onehandle]

27. Wait a minute!

If Dean is McGovern, but McGovern prefers Clark, and Clark voted for Nixon..... Doesn't this pretty much negate our existence? ;-)

My head hurts. I'm going to bed.

[nomaco-10]

28. Yep, I was just sitting here thinking.....

tomorrow the sun will rise in the west, up is down and white is black and all is well in the wacky world of politics. Mind boggling, ain't it?

[11cents]

29. But somehow it feels just right.

Completes the circle or something. I think part of what the Clark campaign is about is healing the Democratic Party from the damage done in the 60's and 70s, starting with the split between "regular" Democrats and the antiwar McCarthy/Kennedy faction in 1968. And then of course McGovern's idealistic, insurgent, and hopeless campaign. The perceived split between liberal values and core American values started then -- and of course GOP propaganda had a lot to do with that, but there were also the left's mistakes. Of the major candidates, Clark is the one who most embraces the term "liberal" -- he was practically begging Bill Maher to apply it to him the other night. So there's something very apt and kind of moving about a McGovern endorsement.

(So the NY Times report better be correct!)

[Tatiana]

31. You're right.

Clark - the man who voted for Nixon

McGovern - the man who lost to Nixon.

For McGovern to endorse Clark means a lot. It must mean he sees something progressive, sincere, and yes, LIBERAL in Clark.

I truly do believe Clark can heal the division in our party and bring us back into power advocating leadership and the Democratic principles we hold dear.

[nomaco-10]

32. You mention GOP propaganda....

Just curious, have you seen the tapes of Clark endorsing the bush cabal? It seems he thought they were a swell bunch of fellas and not so long ago, just after he voted repub five times, but right before he changed his mind on the necessity of the Iraqi war, somewhere in that time frame. They'll be circulating soon enough, round about the time New Hampshire heats up I suspect.

[RafterMan]

37. You mean...

You mean the tapes from just after he voted Democratic three times and just before he lectured the Bush administration on the merits of Internationalism? Those tapes?

Yeah, I've seen 'em.

[11cents]

38. "Round about the time New Hampshire heats up?"

The primary is in a week and a half, d'oh.

Yes, I've seen all the GOP propaganda you mention, since it came out months ago. I also know the facts in full and not just the RNC/Drudge-redacted versions (like, he hadn't voted GOP since 1988). I guess McGovern does too.

[nomaco-10]

41. I mean when the other candidates....

get there, you see they've all been tied up in Iowa and can't get there til Monday. lol

[RandomUser]

83. I think you've captured it in a nutshell

Isn't politics funny? :)

[ClarkUeberAlles]

33. do we really want McGovern to endorse Clark?

I mean no disrespect to McGovern but it almost seems like bad Karma to have someone who suffered one of the worst electoral defeats in American history support our candidate. Its like learning military tactics from the French Army.

[onehandle]

47. McGovern has endorsed winning Dems in the past....

And the French saved our asses at Yorktown.

[ClarkUeberAlles]

60. that's true

but they've gotten their asses kicked in about every conflict since the Franco-Prussian war in 1871. I count WWI as getting their asses kicked too cuz they were headed for defeat if we hadn't intervened.

[Donovan_McNabb]

34. McGovern is a principled man, why Clark?

Why endorse a phony?

[ClarkUeberAlles]

36. Why is Clark a phony?

Why is he not a principled man?

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tatiana]

40. Then why does he command the support of progressives? n/t

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tatiana]

44. As a conservative, how do you know what liberals want?

Could it be that for the first time in a while, they are setting politics aside and just want the best leader for America?

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tatiana]

46. Kerry has an attractive military record.

Why don't all the liberals flock to him?

As a conservative, I would contend that you probably aren't best suited to decide what a real Democrat is and what a real Democrat isn't.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oxymoron]

50. Great.

Now we have conservatives here criticizing our candidates. Why are you here?

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tatiana]

53. Why do we need you here to disagree with us?

If you've browsed this site, you know that we have PLENTY of healthy disagreement among ourselves.

Yep. We've ourselves a healthy democracy going around here.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jack_Dawson]

91. Wow was was this dude saying?

All his messages were deleted. Now I'm curious.

[Maddy McCall]

62. "like the nonsense that we right wingers..."

What are you trying to say?

[Democrats unite]

72. Well there seems to be a whloe lot of Democrats supporting him!

Some big names also. Your Republican thing hasn't been able to work since it was started, just let it go.

[Kahuna]

68. What double talk? Proof? We hear allegations but we never see..

any proof.

[ClarkUeberAlles]

52. I guess people see what they want to see

I haven't seen any inconsistency in Clark's war stance. Clark never said he was against the idea of going to war to remove saddam hussein from power, he was against how this was carried out. He felt Bush went about the whole matter dishonestly and bungled the whole affair. In his congressional testimony and in the much ballyhooed Times of Londom article you can see he was already disagreeing with the how Bush was carrying out his war policy.

And as far as Clark voting for a republican 16 or more years ago, that's just irrevelant. I know he spoke at a republican fundraiser and he said right after that he called the democrats and offered to speak at a fundraiser for them too.

I know he praised Bush and his Cabinet too, so what? Clark was upfront about that too, he said he had high hopes for Bush because of his cabinet and I think many americans did. I remember thinking that Powell, and Rice, and Cheney are very intelligent people who should at least balance out Bush's idiocy.

And finally, Clark has said for the whole time he was in the military he was NON-PARTISON, he voted for Nixon, Reagon, and Bush because they were strong on the military and he voted with the majority of Americans.

P.S. I don't care that you're conservative. I'm not a liberal myself. I'm a moderate democrat so I totally respect your viewpoints.

[Donovan_McNabb]

54. Lets seee....

"I haven't seen any incosistent in Clark's war stance. Clark never said he was against the idea of going to war to remove saddam hussein from power, he was against how this was carried out. He felt Bush went about the whole matter dishonestly and bungled the whole affair. In his congressional testimony and in the much ballyhooed Times of Londom article you can see he was already disagreeing with the how Bush was carrying out his war policy."

Clark in Detroit on October 26:
"I've been very consistent... I've been against this war from the beginning...I was against it last summer, I was against it in the fall, I was against it in the winter, I was against it in the spring. And I'm against it now."

And I'm not talking about who he voted for. Nobody voted McGovern/Mondale/Dukakis. My point is that you DONT go out of your way to say good things about Republicans unless you are one. This guy became a Democrat in 2003, when he realized Bush was vulnerable.

[Maddy McCall]

58. Let's seeeee....

calling any Democratic candidate a Republican is expressly against DU rules. Might want to edit some of your posts?

[Donovan_McNabb]

59. LOL I hope youre joking n/t

[Maddy McCall]

61. Nope. I guess "you rightwingers" don't read the rules, though.

I caught that in your last post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=129603&mesg_id=129897&page=

[LTR]

65. No joke

Buh-bye!

[ClarkUeberAlles]

63. you misunderstood me

Clark in Detroit on October 26:
"I've been very consistent... I've been against this war from the beginning...I was against it last summer, I was against it in the fall, I was against it in the winter, I was against it in the spring. And I'm against it now."

What I was trying to convey was that the CONCEPT, the IDEA, of removing saddam from power through force was not something Clark was against. He was against this war because of the way it was executed, and the reasons given for the war, the lack of a post war plan for transition to democracy etc etc. Clark believed Osama bin Ladin and Al Queda should be our priority right now and saddam Hussien could be dealt with later.

He believed Saddam Hussein was a threat, just not imminent.

http://www.house.gov/hasc/openingstatementsandpressreleases/107thcongress/02-09-26clark.html

[Kahuna]

69. Bwaa ha ha! Don't confuse me with the truth..

:cry:

[Kahuna]

67. If you don't think Clark is consistent, read this...

http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/us/hearingspreparedstatements/hasc-092602.htm#WC

TESTIMONY OF

GENERAL WESLEY CLARK, (RET.)
United States Army
Managing Director, Merchant Banking,
The Stephen's Group, INC.,
and
Former Commander and Chief, U.S. European Command

snip...
As far as I know, I haven't seen any substantial evidence linking Saddam's regime to the Al Qaida network, though such evidence may emerge. But nevertheless, winning the war against Al Qaida and taking actions against the weapons programs in Iraq, that's two different problems that may require two different sets of solutions. In other words, to put it back into military parlance, Iraq they're an operational level problem. We've got other operational level problems in the Middle East, like the ongoing conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Al Qaida and the foundation of radical extremist fundamentalist Islam, that's the strategic problem.

We've got to make sure that in addressing the operational problem we're effective in going after the larger strategic problem. And so, the critical issue facing the United States right now is how to force action against Saddam Hussein and his weapons programs without detracting from our focus on Al Qaida or our efforts to deal with other immediate mid and long-term security problems.

I'd like to offer the following observations by way of how we could proceed. First of all, I do believe that the United States diplomacy in the United Nations will be strengthened if the Congress can adopt a resolution expressing U.S. determination to act if the United Nations can not act. The use of force must remain a U.S. option under active consideration.

Such congressional resolution need not, at this point, authorize the use of force. The more focused the resolution on Iraq, the more focused it is on the problems of weapons of mass destruction. The greater its utility in the United Nations, the more nearly unanimous the resolution, the greater its utility is, the greater its impact is on the diplomatic efforts under way.

The president and his national security team have got to deploy imagination, leverage, and patience in working through the United Nations. In the near term, time is on our side and we should endeavor to use the United Nations if at all possible. This may require a period of time for inspections or the development of a more intrusive inspection regime such as Richard Perle has mentioned, if necessary backed by force. It may involve cracking down on the eroding sanctions regime and countries like Syria who are helping Iraq illegally export oil enabling Saddam Hussein to divert resources to his own purposes.

End

[Bucky]

85. That's a good point. McGovern would never endorse a phony!

such a silly thing to say....

[VolcanoJen]

35. Fantastic!

Thanks, George. I do hope the rumors are true.

You were my mom's candidate, and Clark is her daughter's candidate. Full circle.

:-)

[IndianaGreen]

49. McGovern was a highly decorated war hero

McGovern's endorsement of Clark will be major!

[QC]

57. Yep--flew 35 missions as a bomber pilot!

I've always believed that he's gotten a bum rap. He's a genuine war hero and a decent man besides.

[MacCovern]

80. 35 missions is very impressive....

and at least 24 of those missions were on B-24's, plus 35
missions was the maximum number that any pilot was allowed to
fly.

[stickdog]

66. McGovern is looking for a nominee who has electoral strength

that rivals his own.

[slinkerwink]

71. lol!

:yourock: Dean ain't no McGovern, that's for sure!

[in_cog_ni_to]

73. Sweeeeet endorsement!

WTG, Wes! George McGovern, :yourock:

[John_H]

74. The most import endorsement form that list is

Power, whose book, A Problem from Hell, is a must read for anyone serious about peace.

Read it and you'll see why her endorsement of Clark in huge.

McGovern is also important since it's clear that he doesn't want the party to repeat its mistakes. Perhaps he believes that Howard Dean, as he said of himself, "Wants to run for president in the worst possible way, and is."

[Jerseycoa]

84. Amazing book nt

[MoonRiver]

75. Heard about this today. It's wonderful news!

McGovern is a beloved elder statesman among Dems across the country. His opinion holds a lot of weight.

:toast:

[democratreformed]

76. Yes, they just talked about it on CNN

I am very very happy!

[RetroLounge]

77. Please explain how people can attack Howard Dean

by calling him the next McGovern, as was done all over this boards for weeks, insulting both Dean AND McGovern, and then jump for joy about his endorsement of Clark?

IMO, this is a nice endorsement and congrats to Clark.

[John_H]

79. Comparing Dean's campaign to McGovern is no Bash

the similarties are many: in '72 McGovern called his campaign an insurgent effort which attracted young people and tapped the great anger against Nixon. He did just that, and won the nomination. The problem was that the country as a whole wasn't as mad at Nixon as many Dems were. McGovern got drilled.

Does anyone really need to explain the similarities?

McGovern said, "I wanted to run for president in the worse possible way, and did." If he endorses Clark it's clearly because he learned his lesson and doesn't want the party to repeat its '72 mistake-letting anger empower the enemy.

[in_cog_ni_to]

81. Hmmm, maybe it has something to do with the

relentless...."Clark is a republican and voted for Nixon" posts? McGovern lost to Nixon and was known as a very left wing liberal This endorsement says..by McGovern himself..."I don't care that he voted aginst ME, he is a Democrat now and I SUPPORT him." This is a great endorsement for Clark for the very fact that Clark voted for Nixon against McGovern and McGovern doesn't CARE....so why should anyone else care if he doesn't?


They nominated McGovern who was known as a very left wing liberal and an ineffective campaigner. In addition, the candidate's first choice for a running mate was forced to resign because the media found out that he had received shock therapy. The candidate was forced to look for another Vice President nominee at the time he should have been focusing on getting his message across to the voters. The person he picked for the Vice President was President Kennedy’s brother in law, Sergeant Shriver, who had never run for elected office and his only experience in the government was being the first peace corp. director under the Kennedy administration.
The press constantly criticized the Democratic candidate for everything from his stand on the issues to his strategy. President Nixon's campaign was portrayed as an efficient and superior model of how to run a successful campaign. The press took the Nixon campaign portrayal of the McGovern policies as out of the main stream and ran with it without investigating it and finding out for themselves. The McGovern campaign was no match for the Nixon campaign organization and their constant distortion of his ideas to the media. The media took as a fact most of the distortion without trying to ascertain the fact. One of the reasons the media portrayed the McGovern campaign in a negative light is because the media knew that Nixon was going to win and they did not want to carry a favor with the President who was very vindictive against reporters who reported negative stories against the administration or the campaign.

http://www.kennesaw.edu/pols/3380/pres/1972.html

[Bucky]

89. Very good point. Maybe b/c McGovern learned the lesson & Dean hasn't

After all, what candidate wouldn't kill for Carter's endorsement? That doesn't mean that they intend for one of our embassies to get taken hostage for 15 months.

[wyldwolf]

78. Tom Brokow: This will be a disaster for Dean

[Jerseycoa]

86. Glad to hear it

:)

[andym]

87. McGovern is more liberal than most of today's candidates

McGovern is more liberal than most of today's candidates, although
perhaps Kucinich is arguably close. A man of great ideals.

Because Clark is being accused of being a former Republican by Dean, this is an important endorsement from someone who is actually much more liberal than Dean.

Of the candidates running, McGovern's endorsement would help Clark the most.

[bicentennial_baby]

88. I agree

"Because Clark is being accused of being a former Republican by Dean, this is an important endorsement from someone who is actually much more liberal than Dean.

Of the candidates running, McGovern's endorsement would help Clark the most"

Yep. :7

[Maddy McCall]

90. Excellent point...

Thanks, andy.