So what in the fuck do we do about the Evangicals?

[The Blue Knight]

I saw a report the other night, that moderate churches are dying out, and the only churches growing in America are the fundamnetalist ones.

The question is, how in the fuck do we counter these idiots? What can we do to sever their strangle-hold on the Republican party?

My history teacher and I were talking today; he said it will be interesting to see what happens in '08. What if the Republicans nominate somebody like Guilliani, who is pro-choice? Or another moderate?

The only thing I can think of is winning over moderate/old-school Republicans to the party, or swing the party to the left.

Man, I hate these idiots. Fuck them.

[The Chronicler]

1. I don't know, but they are becoming a huge problem (nm)

[CitizenRob]

92. It's not a problem, it's a blue state switcheroo...

LOL, the joke is on the Jesusland states. The blue states are the wealthy states. We are the ones who will headquarter buisinesses in California/NY/MASS/IL, and then open up factories in Jesusland red states. In these factories we'll pay the Jesusland employees minimum wage to produce valuable goods for the blue states.

HAHAHA Oh man, it's a great day to live in a socially liberal blue state. We get to hire third world pay/benefit level Jesusland workers and profit like mad from it while they beg us to exploit them more. You gotta love it!

Anybody want to start a partnership with me? E-mail me on DU.

[wickywom]

2. I say we start picketing their churches....

We have to take it to them like they've been taking it to our women's clinics.
Moral issues my ass.

[RPM]

60. I'll be there with you wickymom

Can we use gory pictures too? Pleeeeeeeease?

"Remember Christian Atrocities"

[wickywom]

86. No not where children can see them..

however a few smaller ones to show the grown ups who confront us might work.
We must re-evangilize the evangelized--

think of it as performance art.

[LoZoccolo]

3. By showing them the contradictions between their religion and RW stuff.

People who study persuasion know that if you can show something contradicts someone's values, it's a pretty effective way of getting them to change their mind. Tossing off eliminationist rhetoric - which I didn't see in your post, but I take it someone else will come up with soon - only steels people. If you doubt me, think about whether the eliminationism some of the hardcore right-wingers have propose against Muslims would work.

[andym]

4. Run another Jimmy Carter type

Run someone who is a deeply religious christian and liberal.

[The Chronicler]

24. I agree (nm)

[NewJeffCT]

41. and the nominees are?

who would get that position?

Kerry is openly religious & fairly liberal.

[vpigrad]

63. Wrong!

> who is a deeply religious christian and liberal.

Won't work, because such a thing doesn't exist! Christians are not liberal. They are very, very anti-liberal. They have that pounded into their heads from a very early age. How in the world could you think one of those people could be? How?

[Heath.Hunnicutt]

5. By witnessing to them...

They don't see that our party is closer to their teachings than the GOP...

[StupidFOX]

6. Tell them Jesus wants them to "help Mexico find religion."

They'll be out of our hair in a second.

[Wols]

78. Hey, that's actually a pretty good idea

[alfredo]

87. I was thinking that Jesus wants them to help Mars.

I would settle for the Antarctic.

[ithacan]

7. corrupt their children by

teaching them how to think and question...

[Toucano]

8. The same way they destroyed the left.

Disillusion them.

Show them that despite their mobilization efforts, it doesn't work. The people they elected are just a corrupt and sinful as before.

Obstruct their agenda so change doesn't come. When there are no fruits to harvest, they'll stop planting.

The Republicans won't go moderate. What would be the point of that? The old-school (hate that term, btw) Republicans are happy enough to tolerate the pandering to the religious right today. Why would they not tolerate it in 2008?

They don't care about safe, legal abortions. They can send their daughters overseas, if need be.

The Republicans are working to nominate Arnold, though. What he lacks in appeal to the evangelicals, he makes up for in star power.

[Democracy Died 2004]

9. Feed em to the lions? n/t

[drhilarius]

10. There isn't anything we can do...

Have you seen these people? They're fucking breeders- moo-cow wives spitting out inbred mongoloid children by the crateful. They're going to not just out-vote us, but outbreed us (hence no abortion, no birth control). We're fucked, get out while you can.

[wickywom]

11. Most of them don't care about

Christian values ..
they only care about being percieved as right.
Its a toxic mix of ego and fear of the unknown.

[SemperEadem]

12. Revoke their tax exemption

if they in any way put one toe over the political line.

[leftofthedial]

21. do you want to write to Tom Delay and ask him to do this?

or shall I?

[Meshuga]

13. They don't join us because of this kind of attitude

We scared them by calling them idiots.

[Toucano]

23. Gimme a break!

This kind of attitude?

They don't join us because they're BRAINWASHED!

They CANNOT be reached with logic and reason, because they know no logic or reason.

They're small minded people, frightened people. They use the Bible as a weapon to assault people with rather than a tool to uplift and strenghten themselves.

They are the WORST thing about contemporary society.

[Meshuga]

57. "They"?

I know a couple of evengelicals who actually believe in social justice and voted for Kerry. A lot of these people would join Democrats because they believe in the values of the democratic party.

You disrespect evangelicals they won't listen to what you have to say and generalize you as you generalize them.

[Toucano]

61. Your evangelical friends

are highly atypical. So atypical that they are statistically insignificant. If a couple are offended, boo-hoo.

We're talking about the 4 MILLION evangelicals Karl Rove has systematically expolited because they are brainless IDIOTS.

[Peak_Oil]

85. Excellent point.

There is common ground between evangelicals and nonevangelicals. Among other things, evangelicals believe in charity. They believe in religious freedom for themselves. They believe in nonprofit organizations. They love their children and their neighbors. They really, sincerely, truly want to help.

There is a very big place for evangelicals in the Democratic party. We must find a way to make a very serious amount of room for them. There is a way.

There is also a stumbling block. Abortion.

Abortion.

Abortion.

Abortion.

Abortion.

There MUST be a way to do something about this single issue. How can the Democrats make room for evangelicals on the issue of abortion? I don't have a clue right now. Brainstorm with me. How can the Democratic party make room for anti-abortion evangelicals? How can this be done?

[MrChupon]

66. oh please

I hate that attitude. If it is true, then they are acting like 6 year olds and truly ARE idiots.

I mean look at it the opposite way. No matter how nice they were to me, I wouldn't join their church and start hating homosexuality.

So why do people expect that if we just coddled and were nice to all of these fundies that they would all of a sudden have a change of heart and come out progressive on social issues?

[sub.theory]

14. Use Jesus against them

The reality is that the "christian" right is a break away apocalyptic cult that is in no way based on the teachings of Jesus. They have formed a dark and twisted religion of hate, bigotry, and extreme violence. They are, however, extremely powerful and wealthy and control the entirety of the GOP and now our government. They must be stopped. Jesus says in the Bible, "By their fruit you will know them". We know what they have produced, and it is anything but holy.

[mmonk]

15. We need to out them

using quotes from Jesus.

[leftofthedial]

16. eventually they'll realize the end times aren't coming

and start shrinking again

either that or they'll get us all killed and destroy our nation hoping for Armageddon and waging war on the brown-skinned people whose equally absurd deity has a slightly different name or pedigree.

[American Tragedy]

67. 2000 years of failed predictions hasn't deterred them

[leftofthedial]

76. but it's cyclical

what we have to do is accelerate the end of this cyucle of stupidity and irrationality and wait it out.

The core believers will persist, but the 80% who are shallow converts are just latching onto the latest fad. Soon they'll get bored with the mumbo jumbo and latch onto something else.

[bling bling]

17. We could infiltrate them and destroy them from the inside.

Join them, become them and then destroy their movement through an underground operation. But that would take some seriously strong activists and a lot more planning, organization, energy, patience, and motivation than we have ever seen before. I wouldn't even know where to begin organizing people to get on board with that type of operation.

[leftofthedial]

42. I don't know if I could do this

I'd be more than willing to fight as dirty as it takes, but spending that much time exposed to that irrational bullshit would give me the terminal creeps.

[Danmack]

65. why would you want to become as hypocritical as them..

Dumb idea

[AP]

18. Read them the bible. How anyone can be Christian & vote R is beyond me,

[Toucano]

28. You know, that hasn't worked so far.

The problem is the Bible is full of so much contradictory shit that they can always pull a counter verse out.

They cherrypick.

In a Bush supporters LTTE recently, a fundie said basically that Kerry would make the economy better, but the Bible says you're not supposed to work for riches, but a better life in the hereafter. Therefore, vote for Bush.

Can you believe that shit?

There's no sense using theology on them because if that could work, they wouldn't be a problem.

[leftist.]

19. Hang them on crosses, just like the baby jebus died!!! (n/t)

[Toucano]

62. That's so mean and funny! n/t

[jdj]

20. I'm so glad you people are waking up!

My relatives all want to burn you at the stake.

Not kidding.

I now get to not be crying from the wilderness about how freaking dangerous to our democracy these folks are.

One good thing.

There will be a mass exodus from the repuke party of semi-sane "conservatives" now.

[leftofthedial]

25. we need to expose their extremist agenda

a huge number of them are nothing more than a suicide cult

their political goal is to eliminate secular government and replace it with a white fundamentalist biblical code.

how can we expose them, or better yet get them to expose themselves?

[jdj]

53. go after their sexual perversions and corruption like rabid dogs.

I can't think of any other way.

they are all sick in someway, it's why they twist spirituality so to make it evil.

Anything having to do with homosexuality will taint them beyond repair. I wait for the day when the James Dobson/gay bar photo comes out.

edit: this post sounds weird, I meant it's their view of homosexuality that taints them among their own kind. I'm queer, so no flames.

[Stinky The Clown]

89. Give this "queer" a kewpie doll!

You hit the nail on the head .... recall, if you will the not so long ago serial loss of several of their house speakers for adultery.

Out their leaders. Out the gay ones, the adulterers, the porn buying ones, the child abusing ones, the kiddie porn ones. Out them all and show their sheep just how bad their shepherds are.

[Cocoa]

22. run a real Christian against them

a black or hispanic preacher type.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

26. I want a constitutional amendment banning the marriage

of the republican party and fundamentalist religion.

[gratefull4u]

29. Great bumper sticker, love it!

[RummyTheDummy]

27. For starters, step aside while they tear down Roe v. Wade

Look, I think it's pretty ridiculous they're hung up on this issue. I think it's also pretty ridiculous we're so hung up on it as dems.

But let them have it. We all know it will go on, some how, some way. But if we let them have it it will take some steam out of their movement. I know enough fundies to believe that with absolute certainty. That and the gay marriage deal fires them up like nothing else does. Take it off the table, and they're less fired up.

[American Tragedy]

68. very fucking easy for you to say

[xultar]

30. Fuck'em

[jlucu]

31. literally

Maybe that is just what they need

[htuttle]

32. Buy a blimp, paint it black, attach loudspeakers

Fly over red states at night, announcing the following message (in a deep booming voice).

"THIS IS THE LORD, THY GOD. THE TIME HAS COME, MY CHILDREN. WALK TO THE OCEAN AND SWIM TO MEET ME OUT AT SEA!"

Might just work...

:shrug:

[sub.theory]

34. HAHA

"Praise God, the rapture has come!" (nevermind that none of that shit is in the Bible - like everything they believe, they just made it up).

[rullery]

33. Bad-mouthing people because of their religious beliefs

is counter-productive. This very attitude is one reason that so many Evangelicals have aligned themselves with the Republican party. It is far more useful to show them that Democrats are more Christian than Republicans, because we genuinely believe in providing for those who are poor. For instance welfare benefits, free education for children, health care for those who cannot afford it, like Medicaid; all Democratic initiatives.

Republicans on the other hand talk about being "compassionate conservatives" but it is all talk. They talk about a "thousand points of light", meaning let churches and private charities take care of the poor; not the government. Instead, they promote tax cuts for the wealthy. They are the party of greed; and like the Klan, they wrap themselves in our flag and in Christianity, and pretend to be something they are not.

Our struggle as Democrats is not against certain religious groups. Rather it is to expose the Republicans for what they have become: the party of greedy self-interest. That is how we can win people over to our side IMHO.

[Cleita]

36. Excuse me, but evangelicals seem to have no problem

badmouthing other religous groups. You should hear what they say about Catholics. I'm so sorry that I'm not very sympathic to the poor put upon evangelicals.

[sub.theory]

40. No, that's a bad idea, imo

They aren't really Christians. They don't really care about helping the poor or loving their fellow man. They are a cult. They are obsessed with an apocalyse they are sure is coming any day now. In fact many of them are actively trying to engineer its arrival. We can point out what total frauds they are, but actually changing the minds of those who have drunk the kool-aid...I don't know if that's possible.

[American Tragedy]

74. Although I agree, it hasn't stopped them from trashing Catholics

Some people from Six Flags Over Jesus here in Louisville destroyed a man's Virgin Mary sculpture in his yard. And my mom can tell you some wild stories about what fundies did to her and her family when she was growing up. Ironically, those fundies' children all wound up pregnant or in prison before they were twenty. My mom and her seven siblings turned out to be model citizens, despite being Catholic, extremely liberal, and not wearing skirts at mid-calf and long-sleeves in the middle of summer, as mandated by their Southern Baptist neighbors.

It's evident in the way that they said that they voted for Bush because 'he's a Christian'. They know Kerry's Catholic, and Catholics aren't real Christians in their view. Fuck them.

[Cleita]

35. We can't wait until 2008. It's just that simple.

This election has proved to us what we were suspicious of all along that we can't vote out bad leaders anymore and replace them. Our vote really doesn't count. The system is broken.

We can't let BushCo stay another four years either. Not only will we not have a whole country left, but the whole world will become a very dangerous place. We are going to have to go after him and them by other legal means until we exorcise them out of our government.

We did it to Nixon and we are going to have to do it to Bush. There is no other recourse.

[Politicub]

37. Infiltrate and destroy them from within

Why not? What have we got to lose?

It could even be fun. Gross and icky, but fun.

[imax2268]

38. TAX THEM...!!!

n/t

[hope42mro]

39. Join their churches. Actually there are liberal christian churches

out there. My parents belong to a Methodist church in Phoenix, AZ that has a large gay/lesbian congregation. It's a really popular church run by intelligent, educated leaders.

I consider myself Christian because I believe in the merciful message preached by Jesus of Nazareth. Whether he be God's son, or a powerful historical figure, or even a mythological spiritual character, his message is still applicable in today's society.

We should always remind Americans that spirituality is not contrary to scientific progress and tolerance.

The best way to take on the Evangelicals is to join them on the pews. Read the same Bible, attend the same services, then (during social groups/ gatherings)discuss what you've read and heard from a liberal perspective. The Bible is ripe for interpretation from a liberal perspective, we just have to introduce them to it.

Maybe some people could even move to the south and start up there own liberal Christian churches. I think it could work miracles for the country.

[sub.theory]

46. They aren't part of the Christian right

We aren't talking about all Christians, just the "christian" right fundamentalist. You know, the ones who have hijacked our country.

[Roland99]

43. Ship them all to Iraq to witness to those "barbarians"

[Cleita]

52. That's an idea.

Let them go fight Bush's war and bring our kids home.

[QC]

44. Learning the difference between fundamentalists and evangelicals

would be a good start. Lumping together two different groups of people as though they are all alike is not very productive.

According to at least one survey, 40% of evangelicals voted for Gore in 2000. Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Jimmy Carter are evangelicals. Not all of these people are Busheviks.

[NashVegas]

45. Tell Them the World Is Ending

and put them in a room with no lights.

[LTRS]

47. Put them in internment camps?

[Charles19]

48. Moore has Bush pic up consisiting of War Dead

Any the new country we are forming (from another thread):



(Above the Yellow is the new Redneck Freeper free zone)

[ydya]

49. TELL THEM TO FOLLOW THIS GUY..........

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6396422/

[LoZoccolo]

55. The lioness in that picture is funny!

Basically just standing there being not very scared.

[ScreamingMeemie]

50. Kick their homophobic butts off our island!

Ship them off to Iraq...hmmm, I can think of more...

[n2mark]

51. Line them up

across the border facing a firing squad. Oh no, Homeland Security is ringing my doorbell! Just joking of course.

[Kittycat]

54. They're self-appointed martyrs.

It doesn't matter what you say or do - they'll always be the victim.

[doubleplusgood]

56. we need liberal Christian televangelists

...on the air in all of the "red" counties & states. Religious liberals have abandoned the airwaves, both TV & radio, to fundie whack-jobs for, well, forever as far as I know. We need to AT LEAST have a presence in all of the more conservative areas of the country, to counterbalance the "vengeance" Christians with the liberal message of Jesus.

[LaReservaPr]

58. The world is going to shit and they could care less

they WANT the world to end. They are just waiting and hoping for "The Rapture" so they can go "straight to heaven".

[cureautismnow]

59. Sweet Dreams, Robin Lowman Garner

You had the power to expose the hypocritical conman before all the American brainwashed fundies. Instead, you kept your silence and privacy maintaining that that they were more important than the future of your country - TWICE.

So, Mrs. Garner, I hope you sleep peacefully from here to eternity. May the screams of 100,000+ guiltless men, women, and children not pervade your nocturnal sanctuary. And may the fragile levy holding back the rising sea of innocent blood not break and flood your unconscious haven.

"It's rough out there, High water everywhere." - Zimmie

[Pobeka]

64. These people live on hatred and fear. They will destroy themselves.

I heard that one of their leaders was an infiltrator, actually gay pretending to be an evangelical, and he was using subliminal tactics to teach perversions to the youth.

Can't remember where I heard that...

[DeadManInc]

69. Bible thumpers

we need to start having their churches taxed like a business.

[Sparkly]

70. I think that is THE question now

Facts and reason mean nothing to them.

[Blue_State_Elitist]

71. Shoot them

with our newly purchased assault rifles?

[bill]

72. easy, baptize them

and hold them under the holy H2O for >2 minutes

:evilgrin:

fuck organized religion (drinking too much)

[Mike Niendorff]

73. First off, stop patronizing their businesses.

They have directories of so-called "Christian" businesses that fundamentalists use to keep from spending their money among us "godless heathens".

Get one.

Avoid any business listed in it.

That's a start.


MDN

[iwantmycountryback]

75. If a guy like Giuliani or Schwarzenegger gets nominated

They will vote for someone else in the primaries, but if somebody like those 2 gets nominated, they'll find some other right wing christian or stay home hopefully. This is almost good in a way, once people how much being in Republican control sucks, they'll elect a Democrat. It's going to have to be a Southern Governor though, after all that's what Clinton and Carter were.

[Pharlo]

77. PR campaign - as vicious and as spiteful as anything they espouse.

Cease referring to them as "Christians".

They are now to be referred to as Evangelical Jihadists or Religious Terrorists.

If the public is repeatedly bombarded with the words 'jihadists' and 'terrorists' they will begin to fear this cult.

As long as they publicly retain the 'Christian' when people refer to them - even as extremists - there will remain a positive reinforcement to which mainstream America will continue to respond.

[CitizenRob]

79. Don't counter... exploit.

Why counter the fundamentalists? These stupid m-fers should be exploited. They voted into their red state offices people who think the poor should stay that way. Let's all open up buisinesses in Jesusland states, and pay the minimum wage to make goods that we can sell in "reality-based" states at high markups. All of us owners will live in the "reality-based" states while the Jesusland people continue to live in poverty!

It's brilliant! Us Democrats have managed to pull a full on SWITCHEROO on the red states! NY, CA, Mass. all us blue states are among the richest in the nation and now we get to fully ass-rape the Jesusland states, why? Because they are ASKING us to!

I can't wait for the Republicans to cut the income tax rate! That's brilliant!! California, NY, and Mass pay the most in taxes, and the Jesusland states reap a disproportionate share of those blue state taxes. HAHA, once again, us blue states managed to pull a BRILLIANT switcheroo on the Jesusland morons.

But you say, "what about social causes?" Really, we'll be protected on the state level by the layers of Democrats between us and the Federal government. So really, let the Republicans have the Federal Government, their own agenda diminishes the power of their position.

[SoCalDemocrat]

80. It's part of the NeoCon strategy

They push us to the right into Christian Fundamentalism.

Bin Laden pushes his people into Islamic Fundamentalism.

The answer is education, underestanding, a moderate foreign policy, all the things we will never see under a facist like Bush.

[info being]

81. All we need to do is watch as the Republicans screw them over.

At some point they'll come running to us and will be forced to accept us on our terms.

[Sparkly]

82. But they don't seem to notice.

They get screwed twelve ways from Sunday, and all they seem to care about is what other people are doing in THEIR bedrooms.

[info being]

83. Oh, they'll notice when they go bankrupt and hungry.

[69KV]

84. Hit them on their own turf

Here are some ideas:

Print out some atheist/agnostic/freethinker/deist/secular humanist tracts, make copies, and mass distribute them on windshields in evangelical church parking lots while the true believers are inside. Include resources such as websites where they can go for support groups for those leaving fundie churches - such as Fundamentalist Anonymous.

Or, if you're a liberal Christian, actively recruit members of evangelical fundie sects to switch to mainline churches.

Find out which of the big evangelical/fundie churches in your neighborhood are the most politically active as organizers for the far right. Then find out who their big donors are. Often it will be a local businessman or three. Target their businesses for boycotts.

[Medium Baby Jesus]

88. I suggest lions n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

90. Like all other nut case religions

they will implode. They are leaning really hard on this rapture thing. They can only continue go in one direction with it, and that is mass suicides. As with all these religious cults, they need a "next level" to sustain interest. I see this preoccupation with rapture as a very dark turning point for them.

[Ell09]

91. They are FUNDAMENTALISTS

Don't let the FUNDAMENTALISTS change their name like they have been trying to do in the media. "Evangelical" is just a less threatening way of saying Fundamentalist.

These nut jobs deserve whatever happens in the next four years.