Question for Dean supporters re: NRA

[funky_bug]

In keeping with my personal mission of supporting all our candidates, I wonder if you might offer a healthy debate on the following topic:

What is Dean's current position on NRA? I went to his website and did a search, but nothing came up. I went to Google and did a search and only found articles from other candidates, bashing him for being a NRA supporter, as well as an NRA article urging its members to write the NRA and ask them to endorse Dean.

Some spend much time throwing out blanket attacks on all the candidates. As this one recently came up, I thought I would, with an open mind, as his supporters to help me stay more informed.

Respectfully submitted,
Robin

[Padraig18]

1. He doesn't support the NRA, Robin.

He's not a member, nor has he ever sought and endorsement from them. He fully supports all current Federal gun-control laws, and supports closing the gun-show loophole. He believes that each state should tailor their own need for gun control beyond what the Federal laws provide.

[Maddy McCall]

2. In other words, a states rights position?

That's what it sounds like to me. :-(

[Padraig18]

4. Call it what you will.

It is what it is.

[KaraokeKarlton]

8. not quite if you think about it

A true "state's rights" position would want to abolish all federal gun laws and let each state determine whether to ban any guns or do any background checks.

Dean supports the current federal gun laws, would extend the current bans, make sure gun shows do background checks and anything beyond those current laws already in place could be added on a state by state basis. The bottom line is this...no more gun laws are going to pass federally anytime soon, so the whole issue is moot other than it allows states who want to pass more gun laws the ability to do that despite the fact that none are going to pass federally.

Oh yeah...the only thing Dean's position does that's different is that is shuts up those who would screech "gun grabber" to scare hunters away from voting Democratic. Dean has the best position on guns.

[tishaLA]

22. So if gun legislation were labor legislation,

it would be like supporting "right to work" states. Yes, certain federal statutes apply, but states can use their power to protect the gun lobby/corporate interests.

[janx]

26. If "ifs and ands" were pots and pans,

we'd all be tinkers!

[KaraokeKarlton]

27. how can states cancel out federal gun laws?

n/t

[funky_bug]

6. Thank you!

I see that those among us who are calling him an NRA supporter are taking their cue from chimpy... does "for us or against us" ring any bells?

I agree that the gun show loop hole needs to be revisited. We are allowed to carry guns in some states for personal protection, and I also agree that it is best left an issue of the individual state. I hate guns, quite frankly, but I do not deny others their second amendment right to keep and bear arms.

Thanks for the info, and for setting that record straight (and putting yet another drive-by bullet to rest.)

[Padraig18]

7. YW, Robin.

:hi:

[Hoppin_Mad]

3. Here's some info

"Although some of Dean's primary opponents have steered clear of gun issues, Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.), who supported almost every gun-control measure during his legislative tenure, has called Dean's ties to gun groups and opposition to gun-control measures "indefensible."

In response, Dean said: "In a rural state, the NRA is not what it is in Washington. I think NRA members in rural states often do not engage in the kind of extreme rhetoric that sometimes the national NRA engages in."

In recent months, Dean has said that although low-crime states such as Vermont require few gun laws, he favors renewal of the assault weapons ban, which expires in 2004, and background checks for those who shop at gun shows. He opposes granting legal immunity for gun manufacturers -- which a pending Senate bill would do -- and said he will not court the NRA in this election because the group is likely to back President Bush. "


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1483-2004Jan8_3.html

[funky_bug]

9. I bow to your google skills

"he favors renewal of the assault weapons ban, which expires in 2004, and background checks for those who shop at gun shows. He opposes granting legal immunity for gun manufacturers -- which a pending Senate bill would do -- and said he will not court the NRA in this election because the group is likely to back President Bush. "

Certainly speaks volumes. I would be disheartened if he were to seek an endorsement from the NRA.

On a side note, Jimmy Carter is on the NRA blacklist.

[sangha]

12. Dean will not court the NRA is *THIS* election?

Why not? He got their nomination in earlier races.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030906-110347-9894r.htm
Assault-weapons ban expiring in silence

"...Sen. John Kerry, Massachusetts Democrat and presidential aspirant, was among the first to do so, dedicating part of his official candidacy-announcement speech Tuesday to gun control.

"Courage means standing up for gun safety, not retreating from the issue out of political fear or trying to have it both ways," Mr. Kerry said. The statement was perceived as a swipe at Democratic front-runner Howard Dean, who procured the endorsement of the National Rifle Association when governor of Vermont...."

[sangha]

16. Dean didn't always support AWB

http://college3.nytimes.com/guests/articles/2003/10/31/1121724.xml
Dean Walks a Tightrope Over Positions on Gun Control

"Back when Howard Dean was running for governor of Vermont in 1992, he told the National Rifle Association in a signed questionnaire that he opposed any restrictions on private ownership of assault weapons.

These days, running for the Democratic presidential nomination and appealing to a very different electorate from that of his small, largely rural state, Dr. Dean assures audiences that he firmly supports the assault weapons ban enacted under President Bill Clinton in 1994 though vigorously opposing any further federal regulation of guns...

The spokeswoman, Tricia Enright, said Dr. Dean's answers 11 years ago applied only to a state ban, though in fact the question at issue specifically referred to both federal and state law. Ms. Enright also pointed out that the question defined assault weapons in a way that encompassed semiautomatic rifles and shotguns commonly used by hunters in Vermont, while the federal ban applied to 19 specific weapons typically used in street violence.

But Andrew Arulanandam, a spokesman for the N.R.A., said the guns banned by the 1994 law "weren't that much different from firearms that are used in hunting and competition." Mr. Arulanandam accused Dr. Dean of "schizophrenia," saying he had taken positions friendly to the rifle association as governor but had changed since becoming a candidate for president...."

[Cuban_Liberal]

21. The NRA doesn't 'nominate' anyone.

He got a good RATING from them, which is not a 'nomination'. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[sangha]

23. I'm sorry but what are talking about?

I didn't say anything about a "nomination". The article I quoted says Dean received an ENDORSEMENT from the NRA.

[KaraokeKarlton]

5. The NRA gets demonized because of federal issues

While they are quite frequently on the correct side of issues on a state level. The NRA supports land conservation and that's really the only dealings Dean ever had with the NRA that I know of. The NRA urged members to support Dean's effort to protect more land in Vermont than all other Vermont governors combined. Basically, in places like Vermont and NH, the NRA is not perceived as some evil enemy. I think that's essentially an urban perception.

:shrug:

[billbuckhead]

10. The NRA has a blacklist and Ted Nugent on the board of directors

How can a Democratic presidential candidate not see them as an evil enemy? Why won't Dean criticize this anti-American group? How can we trust Dean to stand up to the BFEE, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Al Queda, etc if he pretends the NRA doesn't exist?

[KaraokeKarlton]

13. I should probably tell you this so you don't waste your time

responding to my posts. It's pretty clear that you are quite anti-gun. I come from a long line of hunters, own guns and am a FIRM supporter of the 2nd Amendment. I disagree with you on gun issues and you could hold your breath until you turned blue trying to persuade me to your way of thinking and I'd just walk on by and let you pass out. I don't want an anti-gun candidate because if that's what Democrats offer, I won't vote for them, period. So, I guess I'm telling you to save the sermons for someone who cares. I don't.

[Cuban_Liberal]

18. There's not enough time in the day to denounce every nut in the world.

Ted Nugent is a nutcase, but most most NRA members are completely normal people, billbuckhead; additionally, the NRA is extremely supportive of conservation efforts, especially in terms of wetlands and wildlife set-asides.

Howard Dean would gain absolutely nothing by 'denouncing' the NRA, and could well cost the Democrats the election in doing so.

[sangha]

19. Some of the other Dems have the courage to take on the NRA

Why not the straight talker?

[Cuban_Liberal]

20. Courage, or stupidity?

I see no benefit in taking them on-- zero, zip, nada, none.

[sangha]

24. Courage

Like the courage Gore showed (the 500,000 extra votes he received despite being outspent 2 to 1 suggests it's not as stupid as you think)

[KaraokeKarlton]

28. Because they HELPED him protect hundreds of thousands of acres

in Vermont. Why would he want to "take them on"? He isn't a gun grabber and respects the rights of Americans to hunt and bear arms. My father was a member of the NRA most of his life. He also always voted Democrat. There are individual nuts in all groups and I'm not going to encourage anyone to attack millions of Americans just because Ted Nugent is rude and obnoxious. :shrug:

[Justice]

11. Where Does Dean Stand On Keeping Records Re Brady Law?

Where does Dean stand on keeping records from gun sales - the republicans want to eliminate/have eliminate the period from 90 days to basically nothing.

How Does NRA rate Dean? I thought he received high marks from the NRA - which would make be believe that his views are in line with the NRA.

[KaraokeKarlton]

14. If it's a current law he'd keep it

And he has an A rating with the NRA. Vermont is a very gun friendly state. That's how Vermonters prefer it. Dean never tried to pass any gun control laws and he was great on conservation (another issue important to the NRA). Dean got the high rating for not pushing gun control and conserving more land in Vermont than all other previous governors combined.

Dean is basically neutral on guns.

[NashVegas]

15. On Dean's Website, Under "Civil Rights and Justice"

Is where you'll find his stance on gun control.

[w4rma]

17. PARTY HANDLING OF ISSUES : Gun policy, GOP-favored: 48%, Dem-favored: 39%

http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr040115.asp

[mandyky]

25. The NRA gave Dean an A rating

when he was VT governor. He believes the current Federal gun laws are sufficient but that states and cities with higher crime rates etc can pass their own laws. Being from a rural state Dean realizes many gun owners have weapons for hunting or self defense, and that usually crime rates in rural areas are lower than metro areas.

I don't think Dean supports the NRA.