Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

DU gets a shoutout in Slate's BBV piece.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 09:31 PM
Original message
DU gets a shoutout in Slate's BBV piece.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2109141/

The News Target Network has a rundown on Bush's "mysterious '5% advantage' " in states that use electronic voting here. The site Democratic Underground, which as of 4:20 p.m. PT Nov. 3 has closed its forums to non-registered users, argued that hanky panky could have happened in states that don't have paper receipts. "EVERY STATE that has EVoting but no paper trails has an unexplained advantage for Bush of around +5% when comparing exit polls to actual results." On the other hand, "In EVERY STATE that has paper audit trails on their EVoting, the exit poll results match the actual results reported within the margin of error."

Hmmm... that implies that Josh Levin is a lurking DUer, or he couldn't get in... when are we going to allow the huddled masses to see this stuff, anyway?

The fact that the race hinged on Ohio inspired some conspiracy-minded folk to remember Diebold Chairman and CEO Walden O'Dell's August 2003 vow that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes for the president." Comments on Oliver Willis' blog, for instance, speculate that perhaps Diebold, an electronic voting machine manufacturer, had something to do with Green Party candidate David Cobb's huge early vote totals in some Ohio counties. (These numbers were later corrected.)

Corrected?! Or added in with Bush**'s totals???
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 09:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nah, corrected.
They had Cobb listed first or second in the list of candidates, where they normally put Kerry's name. They had Kerry's votes listed as his because they had the name order mixed up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. Slate appears rather dishonest
Edited on Wed Nov-03-04 10:11 PM by SoCalDemocrat
Since they used the later modified Exit Poll data and didn't mention the controversy surrounding the changes to the exit polls. I suppose that is to be expected since their organization was part of the network that provided the exit polling data.

NH and NV were flat last night for hours after the polls closed with most or all of precincts reported by the APs exit polling. Sludge is using the questionable data that was regenerated late last night and does not match with what was reported through yesterday and on into the evening.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. My response to the Sludge author
Josh,

You used the Exit Poll data that was modified late last night, and didn't mention the apparent controversy surrounding the changes to the exit polls. Perhaps that is to be expected since your news agency is one of the organizations that provided the exit polling data?

NH and NV were marching along lock step between exit polls and reported results last night for hours after the polls closed, with most or all of precincts reported by the APs exit polling.

Do us "conspiracy-minded folk" a favor and explain a couple of points for me. First, what happened to the "fail safe systems" that should of triggered automatically to report variances between exit polls and actual results?

"Precautions are being taken to guard against human error as well. Using past elections as a guide, the AP's computer system is designed to spit out a warning if figures are entered that are significantly at odds with expected patterns - just to make sure the numbers are rechecked."

Second, please explain what happened to the exit polling data around 1:30am CST last night when we observed the following modification to the election results we had been closely monitoring. Note that +57 new votes were added but Kerry actually had votes subtracted from his totals after this update.







--------------
-----------------

Networks to test new exit polling system

By DAVID BAUDER
AP TELEVISION WRITER

NEW YORK -- Determined to avoid a repeat of high-profile failures in 2000 and 2002, television networks will rely on new systems on Nov. 2 to help project election winners and analyze why voters made their choices. And they have turned to The Associated Press to count the vote for them.

The six news organizations that have formed the National Election Pool - ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, Fox News Channel and the AP - say they're confident things will go better this time, based on test runs and the experience of people involved.

Still, the TV networks said they would be careful projecting winners after prematurely declaring Florida, and the 2000 election, for George W. Bush. (The AP did not declare Bush the winner on election night). The election wasn't ultimately determined for weeks after vote recounts and court fights.

"We're just going to really, really be cautious," said Marty Ryan, Fox News Channel's executive producer for political coverage. "When we think we have it, we'll wait a few minutes and look again. Then we'll wait a few minutes and look again."

The networks blamed Voter News Service, the company they had formed to count votes and conduct exit polls, for faulty data that led to the wrong calls in 2000. VNS tried to rebuild its system, but it broke down on election night 2002 and failed to provide usable exit polling information. VNS was then disbanded.



This time, the news organizations contracted with two veteran polling companies - Mitofsky International and Edison Media Research - to conduct exit polls. They agreed that the AP - which has been tallying votes in elections since 1848 - would be their sole source for vote counts, and the news cooperative has significantly beefed up its system in response.

Each of the organizations will use data provided by NEP to make its own projections election night. The organizations also have promised, for the first time in a presidential election, not to call states that span two time zones until all of the polling places have closed.

One flaw exposed in 2000 - the failure of VNS to account for the increased use of absentee ballots - has been corrected, said Linda Mason of CBS News, an NEP spokeswoman. Telephone surveys of people voting by absentee ballots will be conducted in 13 states this year, instead of just three.

Mason said two other technical adjustments were made to increase reliability: NEP will conduct exit polling in more voter precincts and have access to a greater number of past vote counts to use on a comparison basis.

"The things that clearly went wrong four years ago, it's hard to imagine them going wrong again with what they've done with this system," said David Bohrman, CNN's Washington bureau chief.

Both the exit polls and vote counts worked with no serious problems during the 2004 primaries and in stress tests, network officials said. Full dress rehearsals will be conducted on Oct. 23 and 30.

Several networks promised to do a better job explaining to viewers how they make projections and even to assign correspondents to their decision desks. ABC has increased training given to its election night team, and CNN is hiring its own statistical analysts to pore over data.

"Every election is different," said Bill Wheatley, NBC News vice president. "In this one, we're cognizant of the fact that additional absentee ballots are being cast, registration levels are up and there may be additional disputes over the reliability of voting machines. We'll factor all of these into our deliberations."

Four years ago, the networks relied on VNS for its count of the actual votes and used the AP's vote-counting as a backup. Now, the AP will go it alone.

The AP will have stringers calling in results from each of the nation's 4,600 counties. Hundreds of people will be assigned to input the information into computers, and others will monitor the systems to guard against problems. In all, a total of about 5,500 people will be working on AP's vote count on election night.

"We have real confidence in the reliability of the AP's vote count," said Kathleen Carroll, AP senior vice president and executive editor. "We also have enormous confidence in the journalists in the field and the bureau chiefs who will be using the data and their experience when they call winners in the race."

The AP relied on that experience on election night 2000 to resist calling the election for Bush, despite enormous pressure after the networks had made their projections.

Most of the AP election night staff has done the job before, said Tom Jory, the cooperative's director of elections tabulations. The AP also has built in new system redundancies to protect against computer or telephone system failures, he said.

Precautions are being taken to guard against human error as well. Using past elections as a guide, the AP's computer system is designed to spit out a warning if figures are entered that are significantly at odds with expected patterns - just to make sure the numbers are rechecked.

"The AP has a long history of doing these things in general," said Dan Merkle, ABC News decision desk director. "With these other improvements, we feel very confident in the AP."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. Kick
This is driving me nuts. Any mention of it seems to immediately provoke the word 'paranoid' or 'conspiracy' - it's Pavlovian.

:dem:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC