The repugs just pulled our punk card, and all half of you can talk....

[TroubleMan]

about is "healing," "planning for next election," "stop whining," "he did the noble thing," "he didn't want to put us through another 2000 debacle," ect.


I WOULD GO THROUGH A DEBACLE A 1000 TIMES WORSE THAN 2000 if it would put the spotlight on all of the election fraud going on!!

We now have let them steal the votes 3 elections in a row, and my party of choice gave up like little bitches. The leaders I cheered and wholeheartedly supported threw in the towel before the 12th round was over.

This should be a fucking war, not a gentlemanly under-the-table-shake-hands-wink-and-a-nod type thing. We should be on the verge of civil war right now, not thinking about how to cope with this bullshit. We didn't start the war...they did.

This reminds me of the recent Trinidad-Mayorca fight. Trinidad hit Mayorca a few times below the belt. The judge pretty much let it go. Mayorca's corner said, "If he hits you in the nuts, you hit him in the nuts!" Mayorca didn't do it, and he got knocked out.

The repugs pulled our mutha-fuckin' punk card, and they know it. From now own, we'll never get our votes back. BBV is here to stay, and our Democracy has been robbed right before our very eyes.

AND WHAT DID WE DO????.......

We talked tough beforehand, but now the large majority of you are wallowing in sorrow, instead of taking to the streets. A lot of you are trying to explain or empathize why Kerry conceded. We all just rolled over and took it. Nearly every one of us, to the person, said they wouldn't let this happen again, and now it's happened again.

No matter how you try to obfuscate it, Kerry betrayed us when he conceded. WHETHER OR NOT HE COULD HAVE WON AFTER ALL THE VOTES ARE COUNTED IS IRRELEVANT! He was supposed to stand up for us, even in a losing cause.

I know it's hard to nearly worship a political candidate for the better part of a year, like we did with Kerry, and then turn around and criticize him. It's hard to put blame on him after we've defended attacks on him for almost a year. He should have stood up for us like we stood up for him. I feel very betrayed. He did us like Lucy did Charlie Brown....right as we tried to kick the BBV football out of the stadium, he pulled it out from underneath us, and we landed unceremoniously on our backsides.

Dammit people, I don't mean to jump on you...I love most of you here at DU, but why aren't we putting our money where our mouth is? Why are we laying down for this?

I'm sorry if I offended you with course language, but harsh language expresses what I feel right now more articulately than anything else does.

We have to put polite politics aside.....those days are never coming back.

[TroubleMan]

1. Kick, busy forum, post went to 2nd page in one minute.

nt

[Generator]

2. I agree with you 100%

Never have more people in the world (okay maybe hyperbole but still) wanted a man to stand and fight. And if he didn't understand that then he understood nothing.

I too feel betrayed.

And I want to say one of my last posts last night before things got rough was, Have Faith in John F. Kerry. I believed in him. He has proven me wrong.

~ WHETHER OR NOT HE COULD HAVE WON AFTER ALL THE VOTES ARE COUNTED IS IRRELEVANT! He was supposed to stand up for us, even in a losing cause.~

I will never forgive him for not challenging this. That's who I thought Kerry was. A challenger. And for the rest of you, I happened to have adored, yes fucking adored John Kerry. I dare you to find a bigger supporter for him personally on DU.

I refused to watch the confession speech. I don't ever want to see him again in my life. I'm sorry, but if he doesn't get it and we don't get it, then it's gone.

[glitch]

3. Agreed. nt

:dem:

[prayin4rain]

4. Yeah what is this unite with the murderers shit?

The least he could have done is given a good "I quit" speech. Not unite with your oppressors, unite with the fascist murderers, unite with the party that is stealing your country blind. Really though that annoyed me.

[jdj]

5. I'm ready to fight.

i don't know why in the name of God we ever thought if they stole one election they wouldn't steal another. it makes no sense.

I just had my bumper sticker made: "voting machines without paper ballots= 2 stolen elections"

at www. makestickers.com.

our leadership is not taking this seriously at all. how fucking stupid can they be? when I went down to the dem headquarters in town and said a couple of things about why I was voting absentee paper ballot because of fraud, i got BLANK STARES and nothing else. not a word.

their heads are so up their behinds. I forwarded all the BBV information to Elaine Marshall and Gary Bartlett over a year ago (sec of state and election spvsr for NC) and I got a lukewarm response. I bet they still believe in the tooth fairy as well.

[Lindacooks]

6. I agree 100%

We have to fight as dirty as they do. Every single time. Every piece of dirt. FOREVER.

[drunkdriver-in-chief]

10. Except democrats won't fight at all

No president has ever been as vulnerable as bush but kerry wouldn't criticise him. Kerry's slogan was - I can do better.

Americans don't like a dirty fighter but what they really despise is someone who won't fight at all.

[Mist]

24. Americans don't like a dirty fighter

but what they really despise is someone who won't fight at all. That's precisely it.

[Lindacooks]

28. They sure liked Bush* et al. And they are VERY dirty fighters.

[TroubleMan]

7. Well if we agree...what are we gonna do now?

That's the tough part.

I'm ready to follow, but now who's gonna lead? I wish I could, but I have a bad past, and that makes 90% of the people think of me as not worthy to listen to.

What politician has the balls (male or female) to fight this tooth and nail?

When do we start organizing and taking to the streets? There are still 1.6 million uncounted votes in Florida, while the margin of bush's victory there is only 350,000.

I'm ready.

[Eye and Monkey]

8. We need a catalyst.

Before this morning, I thought this election would go right on past the polls and head straight into challenges and the courts. I was worried that, if that process spilled out into the streets, it might get very very ugly.

Well, it seems like it headed right past the polls, and petered-out before the challenges and court papers were even filed. Removing that motivation, and topping it with a concession speech - that diffuses the focus.

We need a catalyst, something to spark the imagination and the constructive outrage. Like you, I'm ready to hit the streets - and I'm ready to drive across the country, pick-up folks along the way, and wing-it along with my fellow citizens, to right a very deep wrong.

Pardon the analogy - but after 9-11, so many people wanted to do something, somehow volunteer. They were left with nothing to do except to "go shopping, spend to help our economy". Great. Thanks for helping citizens be involved in being citizens. It's sorta the same thing here - we want to be citizens involved in being citizens - not passive cattle.

We need a catalyst.

[H2O Man]

9. So tell me, Trouble Man:

In reference to this sentence you wrote: "We talked tough beforehand, but now the large majority of you are wallowing in sorrow, instead of taking to the streets," .... did you take to the streets in the last 24 hours?

[Fla Dem]

11. What did you do to fight the war ?

Did you work for your local Dem party? Work at GOTV? Run for an office yourself? Help a local candidate? Taking action is more than talking about it.

[RapidCreek]

27. You wanna know what I did? Well Below is the post that I made

earlier today....it describes what I did, why I did it and why I'll never do it again. It was a response to the sniveling that immediately precedes it


XXXXXXX18 (1000+ posts)
Please, won't you stop this?

This bitterness and recrimination serves only two purposes--- to further demoralize our friends and allies who are already hurting, and embolden our enemies. There will be plenty of time to analyze the mistakes and develop strategies designed to not repeat them, but for the love of god and this republic, stop this insane, self-indulgent NONSENSE!



Wed Nov-03-04 03:55 PM by RapidCreek

Yea REALLY, I can't wait to work for DLC pimps again....nothing better than losing over and over and over.

I kept my damn mouth shut and played the "support the fake Democrat game" for two fucking years. I campaigned for the sons of bitches...and made every effort to quell my desire to point out what a bunch of chickenshit pussies I believed them to be. I knocked on doors....I made phone calls....I wrote letters to the editor...and I littered my corner lot with signs. I did these things on the fascist side of a fascist state in a fascist town where everyone knows everyone.

I listened to cowards, panderers and chickenshits explaining why it was important to run molly coddling Republican light candidates....I swallowed my pride put my head down and fought. The fuckers I fought for said they'd wait until the very last vote was counted before they threw in the towel, win loose or draw...predictably they didn't. THEY FUCKING FLIP FLOPPED....AND IF SOME FREEPTARD WANTS TO COPY AND PASTE MY MOTHERFUCKING POST HE CAN BE MY GUEST. If I am hurting some DLC pricks feelings let me utter a HOO FUCKING RAH! I'd be kicking the shitstains in the balls if a few were immediately handy. I should have stayed home and not voted....it didn't mean a shitting thing anyway because I live in a red state, right?...At least I wouldn't feel like I just got punked by the guys I worked for.

There will be plenty of time you say? Shit pal, you don't take a corpse to the Emergency Room...you take it to the fucking morgue. If the Democratic Party ever wants my support again they damn well better flush that crew of turds who call themselves the DLC, right down the crapper where they belong. That is all the analysis that needs to be done.

Demoralize our friends and allies? Shit...I don't know who the hell they are anymore.

Im not venting or healing or any of the rest of that pop psycho-babble bullshit. I'm remarking on the stench of shit I've made every effort to ignore for the past two goddamn years....and I'm making quite friggin clear that the DLC WILL NEVER AGAIN GET A MINUTE OF MY TIME OR A PENNY OF MY MONEY. They can go to Haliburton for both.



RC


Hope you enjoyed the read.

RC

[TroubleMan]

12. No...you're exactly right, but I want to...and I will...let's organize now

You are exactly right, but that's my point....we need to start something, not cry and hug each other or shout at each other.

I just can't leave my wife and kids, and leave work to run out in the streets by myself like some drunk Don Quixote.

I'm trying to get us to organize...we need to fight now! I haven't seen any threads about us striking, blocking the streets, protesting, ect.

Just me going by myself won't do anything (except piss of my wife). We should be working together right now.

However, half of us are ready to bend over and take it, and the rest of us (like me) are banging our heads against the wall in rage.

I'm telling you guys and any potential leaders reading this post, I'm ready to fight and I'm behind you 100%, but we've got to fight now.

Next election will be too late.

[H2O Man]

16. Well, let's think ...

You used Brother Felix in your example. He punched low. And any good cornerman is going to say that if the ref doesn't take care of that, you have to hit him back. But they don't say to hit him with a baseball bat. Just do what he did.

The republicans beat us in a close election. I think they did a good bit of "funny business." But they weren't out in the streets rumbling. And no one who wants to help bring about democracy, freedom, and justice will be out rumbling in the street.

Like Jimi Hendrix sang after King was murdered: "Try learning instead of burning, hear what I say." (House Burning Down) We need to have more people learn about the political process, and fewer people going to jail for foolishness in the streets.

[TroubleMan]

17. Have more people learn about the political process?

While I agree in theory that's a good idea. America has been in a long dumbing-down process. In fact, the majority of the electorate glorifies in the dumbing-down and is proud that they are one of the dumbed-down.

Some people only listen to action.

We've already tried to do this the "nice" way, and they've stolen it from us 3 times in a row. We can't educate the people about the political process when we don't control the media. We need to hit the streets. If even we don't win, at least we didn't give up.

They've hit us below the belt...it's time to hit them back.

[sangh0]

20. In theory?

No, in fact.

Some people only listen to action.

I think you might want to investigate the efficacy of revolution as compared to more peaceful and educational movements, like the Civil Rights Movement, Solidarnose in Poland, Satyagraha in South Africa, Otpor in Serbia, and others. Much less blood, and since the results are the results of the result of consensus, their effect is deeper and more longer lasting.

Just compare the Civil War to Civil Rights Movement.

[TroubleMan]

23. Those examples you just cited were people taking action

I'm not trying to advocate violence....I'm advocating peaceful, yet forceful, protest.

I think we agree on the issue, but our semantics aren't in synch.

[tjdee]

13. "They gave up like little bitches". Amen to that, brother!

I do not want delusion in my candidates. If the votes were not there, Kerry should not hang on like a loser.

HOWEVER.

I am immensely furious that the Democrats, once again, punk out. They're ALWAYS the nice ones. Always the ones that go along, smooth things out. They act like adults, when obviously what voting Americans want are petulant children that kick and spit. Don't we have ANY kickers and spitters in the entire party? Damn!

[phish420]

14. Agreed. KICK!

[NightTrain]

15. I ain't laying down for shit, brother.

I'm with you 100%! :thumbsup:

[NorthernSpy]

18. You're right, TroubleMan, and...

I'm disgusted with Kerry for conceding. I think that 99 times out of a hundred, conceding before all the votes are counted is stupid and wrong.

If pressed, I can imagine TWO possible scenarios in which Kerry's action would be part of a very good strategy; it's not particularly likely that either scenario is what the DNC is betting on here, but not actually impossible either. Fingers crossed anyway, and 'nuff said...

As for the votes in Florida and Ohio, my line is that they -- like all the votes in the country -- MUST be fully counted, no matter who concedes what. And yes: there are some numbers in this election that do warrant close attention, whether that reveals concrete proof of something untoward or not.

[BrewerJohn]

19. Howard Dean knows about BBV

Can it be that he didn't get the word to Kerry and Edwards? Or is it that they JUST DON'T GET IT?

How many brain cells does it take to realize that if they can steal it once, they'll steal it the next time, and the next...forget about winning an election EVER AGAIN.

But that's not worth fighting for?

We're screwed and our Dem leaders have let us down.

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Yep. Election reform is at the top of our agenda now

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[Eric J in MN]

22. I agree. Kerry shouldn't have conceded until

all the votes were counted, as a way of spotlighting voting-issues, at very least.

[Streetdoc270]

25. Agree ,why the hurry?

Why do we need to have the election results immediatly? What whould it have hurt to wait 11 days untill all the votes were counted? Why do people throw around BS phrases like 'for the good of the country'? IS it not better for the country to TRULEY know who the winner was? I say that we make a law not allowing any coverage of election results untill 8am nov 3d. We also need to revamp the primary system. We need to have a 'Primary day' just like election day when all states vote on the same day so that a couple of states and 2-3 pundits tell the rest of us who we will vote for...

[Ladyhawk]

26. Hear, hear!

"No matter how you try to obfuscate it, Kerry betrayed us when he conceded."

He broke my heart. And I won't get over it. :cry:

When Kerry rolled over, it took the fight out of me. I was ready to get in my car and drive to Ohio. I was ready to take to the streets, but now, without a leader...what do we do?

If we can prove fraud, we should all march in the streets with or without the man who betrayed us. But when he bailed on us, we lost our focus.

I'm furious with him.