Schumer sounded like the Dems will have to "rethink" positions again.

[madfloridian]

On the Daily Show just now. Repubs won on cultural values, that is gay rights and guns, etc.

Now, when he said they had to "rethink", the word "pander" came to my mind. You know, like oops! they are more moral than we were, so we will have to change our positions on gay rights, etc. to be more like them so we can win.

Please, please, tell me I misunderstood him. I don't think so though. We know they will never let Dean ever be a candidate now for his signing of the civil unions bill in VT. That is a fact, the party said he was unelectable for that. Oh, yes, they used it against him, his own Dems.

Senator Schumer, please tell me that is not what you meant. Are you guys going to go further to the right now to make the Bush supporters happy?

To be clear here, I was raised Southern Baptist, so were my kids. However all of us defend the rights of that community. Most everyone I know does as well.

Sorry, it just hit me wrong tonight. Like Uh Oh, back to the drawing board to make sure our agenda pleases the swing voters who are religious.

[BayCityProgressive]

1. MARK MY WORDS HERE AND NOW

IF THE DEM PARTY MOVES ONEMORE IOTA TO THE RIGHT THEY WILL BE BEYOND DISGUSTING RAT VOMIT AND I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT AGAIN AS LONG AS I LIVE!!!!!!!!!!

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. Not even Dennis?

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[Tweed]

2. No, because then he talked about the meat and potatoes issues

and how we didn't stress though enough. I think what it sounds like is we will have 'class warfare' language. Especially with the evangelicals who are poor. I agree with you though, it could turn out that way, but I think we need to press economic issues more.

[madfloridian]

4. Yes, but to use the word "rethink"....my God. Take a stand.

The word rethink conjured up images of our party sitting around and thinking hmmmmmm....mmm which stance will go over best with the swing voters.

[Tweed]

6. True true

I do see how it could come across that way. I just saw it as we need to sit down and think how to emphasize issues and which issues to do it on.

[derbstyron]

7. this is why we lose

I see NO ONE in our party with courage at this time.
We are in DESPERATE need for someone to step forward. :(

[madfloridian]

9. Yes, there is someone.

But he did not survive Iowa.

[sangh0]

29. His name is Schumer

who defeated Al D'Amato, who was known as a fierce campaigner, and who led the succesful fight against bush* nominees to the high courts.

So far, all you have against Schumer is that he used the word "rethink". There's nothing wrong with "rethinking". Not rethinking is one of the many complaints we have about bush* and his supporters

[sangh0]

28. WAIT A MINUTE!!

He used the word "rethink"???

Heavens to Betsy!!

[madfloridian]

31. Don't start on me tonight.

Not in the mood, sangho or sangha

I won't pick on you if you leave me alone.

[sangh0]

32. Don't start on my Senator

who I worked very hard to help elect, for some insane bizarre reason.

[madfloridian]

34. Read my post again.

I was being quite fair.

[sangh0]

35. Fairly inane

Schumer is nearly EVERYTHING you should want in Democrat. He's a liberal AND a fighter.

But he said "rethink"

[madfloridian]

38. If I smiled crooked, it would upset you.

I was quite fair in what I wrote, and I think you are vastly overreacting.

[Bluebear]

3. They did not WIN. I am not buying what they're selling.

Investigate the Christian Reconstructionists and their electronic voting machines.

[BayCityProgressive]

5. we need class warfare!

The Right wing has started it and we have no choice but to finish it!

[no name no slogan]

36. But it's STILL a problem for us-- if it's close enough to steal

Dubya is the worst fscking president since Nixon. And yet all our "best" candidate can do is pull a draw against him.

THAT is a huge problem.

We don't need more Clintonian "moderate"-ism any more than we need another Fox Broadcasting. What we NEED is a candidate who hits back on our issues: economic fairness, social justice, and an internationalist foreign policy. Not just more talk of "programs" and "tax breaks" or "more opportunities", but a true VISION that is distinctly and unapologetically different from that of the GOP.

Kerry didn't really start taking off until his Sept 20 anti-war speech, where he clearly differentiated his policy from Dubya's. But unfortunately he didn't continue hitting there, instead touting his "kinder, gentler" pro-corporate economic agenda, and ceding the whole "war on terra" issue to the GOP (by saying he'd do a "better job" fighting Dubya's war :wtf:)

Given the situation in this country and Bush's very high negatives, this election should have been a cakewalk-- REGARDLESS of any theft or BBV. Shit, this should not have even been CLOSE.

[cynatnite]

8. Not just hell no, but fuck no!

If they try to force the party to go more right, you can bet your ass the dems will split. Wouldn't that make the repukes happy as hell.

[Aussie_expat]

10. Movement to the right.....

If the sitting dems want to keep their seats they may have to move to the right on some of these issues.

[madfloridian]

13. Well, Daschle did just that....even hugged Bush. And he lost.

When do we learn to just stand up for what we believe, explain that belief, show why it is right.....instead of running away from it.

Dean tried to address some of these issues, but he was out so fast your head spun.

We MUST talk about them, explain why we feel the way we do...not just run over to their side

When Dean is addressing collge groups, that is what he does...he explains that the civil unions and guns, etc. should not have a place in the political realm when so many serious things are going on.

We need to address the issues head on.

[Aussie_expat]

16. I understand ....

but no matter how clearly and often you explain these positions it doesn't get through to some people. Whether we like it or not it may take more than a few elections before these issues become tolerated enough for the christians to overlook or at least to become less electorally motivated in this regard.

[madfloridian]

21. That won't happen with this bunch. We have to take the initiative.

:hi:

That is our job....to be the opposition. Not to be like them.

[Aussie_expat]

23. I have no doubt about this bunch here.....

It's that bunch in Washington that I'm concerned about and I anit talking about the repugs.

[union_maid]

11. No, he was right

I understand what you're saying, but when he went onto talk about the meat and potatos issues he was right. Most Americans need things that the Democrats have really failed to emphasize a lot of the time. Some thingsa are problems that might be difficult to surmount given the deficit, but here's one example. Kerry did say that his healthcare plan was the best one that he could get passed if he won. He said in his speeches that it would save the average family $1000 a year. That's not enough. That's just not nearly enough savings to make a difference to those who are being hit hard with healthcare costs. It's not enough to get someone to change their vote on that issue. It sounds to me that Schumer is realizing what the Democrats need to do.

[madfloridian]

14. So we leave behind those in the party who do believe in live/let live?

Like I do? I am Southern Baptist, but I freely offer gays their civil unions.....their lifestyle is not my business.

Why must they rethink those issues.

Sure, concentrate on the serious issues.....but don't give in on the wedge issues we should be standing up for.

[City Lights]

12. The Dems are nutso if they think they'll be about to out-Jesus

the right wing wackos. Before they try to sell this to us they should check with CNN to see how well trying to out-fox Fox worked for them. :eyes:

[madfloridian]

15. Right, you can NOT out-Christian them....they will win every time on piety

:hi:

[TheWebHead]

17. I think the point is that if you concede some of these issues

and not necessarily support them vocally, you eliminate them as issues. If gay marriage initiatives pass everywhere and the courts strike down challenges, or if there really in an amendment, it takes that issue off the table and we can settle for civil unions. This was an issue that was polling heavy in favor of conservatives, and other socially divisive issues are much more evenly split or are in our favor.

[graywarrior]

18. Get yer bathing suits ready. The dems are gonna baptize us all

[madfloridian]

19. LOL but they don't hold you under too long. I know from experience.

Now that made me laugh tonight...Thanks. :hi:

[incapsulated]

24. LOL

Thank you for that laugh! :)

[Blue_Roses]

22. I'm southern baptist too, however, because they have

gone so nuts over this gay marriage issue, I've been going to a Methodist church. Aside from the fact that I do believe there was definitely some fraud going on in this election, I agree that the fundies turned out to vote for this amendment. It didn't dawn on me until late last week when a reporter on one of the news channels said that this amendment was on many battleground ballots. I knew then there would be turnout and in fact, last night at our Dem headquarters I asked someone if they thought this high turnout is for this amendment and they said maybe.

Rove played this thing to the hilt. He knew he would have to get a hot wedge issue to bring out the vote, because Bush's record is so horrible.

[madfloridian]

25. We took our names off the rolls over their war support.

Many of our friends are unitarians, and they are wonderfully kind people who care about social issues. We may start going there.

[sangh0]

26. Schumer is about as liberal as they get

and he didn't beat D'Amato because he's a wimp.

Exactly who do you think the led the (successful) fight to keep the most extreme of bush*'s nominees from getting a lifetime position on a Federal Appeals Court?

Chuck has one bad strike against him, and that's that he's a little too freindly with the financial services industry, but even on that he's on our side when push comes to shove. He's the one who pushed for, and then single-handedly killed (by inserting a poison pill) the bankruptcy bill.

[madfloridian]

33. Please stop this. I did not call Schumer bad. I respect him.

I will criticize any of our leaders when I hear them sounding like that. I did not give a critique of him but of what he said...I questioned it.

[sangh0]

37. He gave you no reason to question it

and many reason to NOT question it. Chuck Schumer has a long record, and it's a record of FIGHTING for liberal causes.

All of those right-wing fruit cakes who DID NOT GET CONFIRMED were defeated because of Schumer, but you're so distrustful of him and ignorant of his record that one word gets you fired up. ONE WORD?

[killbotfactory]

27. We just need a goddamned leader

Someone who is not afraid of their past or positions and can articulate clear reasons why. We need someone who presents a clear rational for the way they think and vote the way they do.

[jab105]

30. IT'S NOT ABOUT FACTS, It is about framing the argument...

JOIN IN!!!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1313817