The American People Have NOT Spoken-This Election was STOLEN!!!

[Pachamama]

I am sick to my stomach right now...I vascillate between rage, anger and tears...I returned late this afternoon from Ohio where till late last night I had spent most of the day in the pouring rain helping at the polls in the Akron/Stark County area. When I left Ohio this morning, there was no decision...I got off the plane only to get the punch in the stomach that Kerry had conceded....Conceded? Why I shouted?

Without getting into all the details, I can say without one bit of hesitation after having been on the "Frontlines" myself that there is no way that we lost this election and that it was stolen....Does anyone really believe that Bush got the popular vote in the numbers he did? Tell that to all the women, students, and African-Americans standing for hours in line....I'm not buying...

Is it only me that thinks this? Am I the only one who is feeling that Kerry shouldn't have conceded?

Folks, the Coup d'etat is now "legitimized" and complete....

[ComerPerro]

1. The most important point to drive home

Even more important than any ideas about this being stolen, is that Bush didn't exactly win by a wide margin. This is hardly a mandate.

The American people have spoken, and they have chosen Bush by a thin margin. Only about 3%. And Bush didn't exactly sweep the states or the electoral college.

First and foremost, I stress that this was not a sweeping victory.

If this country were really as behind Bush as the media and Republicans want us to think, he would have wrapped up 60 or 65% of the popular vote and 350 Electoral votes.

[Algorem]

7. He did not win.

[Sliverofhope]

14. Even Dick Morris finds the discrepancy between

the polls and the results off. Of course, he thinks it's the polls that are wrong.

[Pachamama]

18. Interesting since in previous elections they "swear" by the accuracy of

the polls.... :eyes:

[glitch]

2. You are not the only one who isn't suckered. Many bbv threads today

I listened to Mike Malloy for the first time tonight - worth a listen because he gets it and rants about it. Made me feel better anyway.
If you didn't hear it you can download mp3 at http://www.airamericaplace.com/archive.php?mode=show&id=8

[Swamp Rat]

3. I agree Pachamama!

This election was stolen! These lizards do not play around.

What I'm wondering is, why folks are so shocked? Didn't most DUers read PNAC? I mean, I feel bad that the election was stolen after so much great work we all did, but now is the time to shout from the rooftops: "FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! IMPEACH! IMPEACH! IMPEACH!"

[Pachamama]

4. Why aren't more people shouting about this?

Is it that we are all suffering from grief and shock and can't find our voice? I'm actually not "shocked", I've never put anything past these people, but I actually thought that with all the eyes on them, they wouldn't dare to try anything....But I was there....I saw with my own eyes the people in lines - and they weren't there for George W. Bush....I saw people being "challenged" - there was an 80+ year old woman who said she didn't get her absentee ballot in and wanted a provisional ballot and was denied one until she talked with me and another about her voting rights and we went back in and convinced the "precinct judge" to allow her vote...

I don't know what to feel...I am so sickened I can barely stand it....I don't even want to stay in the US anymore....I feel like I don't even know my country anymore....I feel like a stranger here....

[Swamp Rat]

5. I understand how you feel.

:hug:

But I refuse to let people drag me down with their hopelessness. I am a fighter - always have been. Instead of letting the energy build up inside, I will use it for creativity and good in this world. We must be strong for all the Pachababies in America and around the world.

... though, I may return to Brasil after I finish school... or maybe Europe. If this current government is going to sink this country into the abyss, I imagine most of the talanted and intelligent Americans will leave, like what happend after the fall of past empires.

[Pachamama]

11. Thanks for the kind words Swamp Rodent!

I will admit that its probably going to take atleast another 72 hours for me (along with some good wine) to get out of my funk right now...I keep going back and forth in the anger and sadness....but, alas, I too am a fighter.... I too must be strong...I am going to start doing yoga everyday and I will make my Pachababies and friends the most important focus of my life (not that they weren't before) but I'll try to cocoon for a while, gather my strength and then emerge to fight again....

Brazil sounds good...I'll join you there...although I still have the Achuar and Shuar in Equador that would want me there....Actually, the reality would be for me to return to Europe....I won't leave until it looks like its getting dangerous...in the meantime, I'll put the plan in place to have a place to go if need be....Sadly, as we all know from the lessons of history, its always the academics and intelligentsia of country's overtaken by fascists that are the first to go...either by choice and later by force....

[Swamp Rat]

17. By the way, if you can stand the cold...

Norway is ideal!... but you know that. Even though I love Brasil, Europe has better employment/pay for university professors. My brother may move to Barcelona with his girlfriend (she's from Madrid but her family is Catalan), so if I moved to Scandinavia or Northern Europe I'd have a place to visit near the Mediterranean during the winter. As much as I love my hometown New Orleans, we have too many non-edible lizards in Louisiana and the rest of Lizard Land is inhabited by mindless drones.

[m berst]

13. the lull before the storm

There is a concerted effort going on right now to steer public opinion. We need to keep the issue of election fraud on the front burner during this lull. I don't mean eventually pass legislation to fix things, I mean this election, right now, audited and thrown out if it fails to pass muster. If we demand it, it will happen. We need to hold fast to this clear, simple point. Watch the effort going on to steer us onto something else.

This election was stolen. The trail is fresh. The people are watching and are engaged and motivated now. This is the issue, this is the time. It is not time to re-organize the Democratic party, or to talk about building new organizations, or starting new media outlets or anything else that will divert attention away form the outright theft of an election.

[Cleita]

12. Thank you for saying the impeach word.

I am saying the same. I don't care if Congress won't move on it. We need to start moving these guys into the court system, indictment by indictment. Throw everything we can at them. Some of it has to stick.

[Swamp Rat]

20. Me neither Cleita. I don't give a Swamp Rat's ass if they control the

House of Reps. My point is making a BIG stink about the dead elephant in the living room while the body is still warm.

I'm gonna channel my anger and energy on exposing these bastards for who they are. I will challenge every right wing nutjob that opens his big, fat mouth and demand to know why he is not fighting in Iraq. I will use their lingo like, "I don't give a 'rat's ass' that you already served in the Marines! Get your sorry ass back in uniform and get on the next flight to Iraq! NO EXCUSES! What are you, some kinda unpatriotic, Commie pansy? George W. Bush commands to you enlist NOW! Obey President Jesus!"

Oh, before I forget... IMPEACH! IMPEACH! IMPEACH!

[T Town Jake]

15. Gonna be kinda difficult to "IMPEACH! IMPEACH! IMPEACH!"...

...there Swampy, when the GOP controls the House of Representatives. Or haven't you ever read the Constitution?
What we need to do is rebuild the Party around the themes that once made us the MAJORITY: no more snooty, Ivory-tower elitism; no more gun-control nonsense; tough on National Defense; and committed to "lunch-bucket" issues with workers that a fair number on our side now seem to disdain. It's time for the Democratic Party to return to its roots, and kick to the curb such issues as "gay marriage" and gun control.

[Swamp Rat]

22. I will not abandon my gay brothers and sisters for ANY political gain.

... and yes, I have read the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Declaration etc., many times, over and over and over again. That's why I will not barter someone else's rights for political posturing. Didn't we learn that mistake? Didn't we pay for it with a Civil War and everything that happened afterward up to the civil rights movement? The day that the Democratic Party says fuck gays, I will no longer support it.

http://www.archives.gov/national_archives_experience/charters/constitution.html

[freedomburn]

6. Must see video on electronic voting

http://www.archive.org/stream/VotergateTheMovie/votergatethemovie_256kb.mp4


Votergate the Movie



freedomburns

[m berst]

8. thank you Pachamama

Please don't quit. There is a lot of denial and a lot of misdirection going on. Keep putting this in front of people, and they will eventually listen. The Bush admin has been stealing everything in sight. This isn't "conspiracy theory" stuff/ The evidence is overwhelming. This is not the time to take the light off of them. This election needs to be thoroughly investigated. This is not about Kerry winning, or conceding, or 2008 or anything else. This is about anyone EVER being elected again fairly.

The 2008 election will never come if we roll over again. This may be the last chance.

Why is the front page full of ridiculous emotional and inflammatory threads? Why are people abandoning the struggle and encouraging others to do so? Why are people who are questioning this election - with everything we already know about the people in this adminstration - being dismissed, discredited and ignored?

Think, people. Think.

on edit - typo

[Pachamama]

9. I will never quit...

...but I am afraid that others may...

My Grandparents escaped Nazi Germany...I lost family members to the Nazis, not because they were Jewish (I'm Catholic), but because they questioned the regime and challenged them....I guess you could say its in my blood to fight fascism...

I am not a conspiracy theorist....I'm a stay-at-home Mommy that poured my heart into trying to make sure that we elected Kerry to the White House and got rid of these people who have hijacked our country...I donated money, I wrote letters to single women and moms in Swing States...I organized fundraisers and then I took my kids on the road with me to several swing states and canvassed and worked hard to get the word out....My final trip was to Ohio this week and I was a Poll Monitor....my white jacket with the big black letters on the back stating "Voting Rights Team" sits hanging on the chair and seems like a painful reminder of what this election really was....a sham...

I'm not a crazy unemployed conspiracy theorist...I'm a person who is well educated and who has traveled a lot, speaks other languages and who saw first hand what happened....and yet the media is silent...like 2000, people are like deer in headlights and seem unsure what to do...people are thinking it, but afraid to say it....And the media ofcourse is now touting the talking points fed to them by the WH. I will not be silent....and your right, if we don't stop the computer voting machines, its going to be too late...I already feel that Nov. 2nd, 2004 marks the day that democracy in America died...problem is no one knows it....yet....

[seabeyond]

10. i think it was stolen

and i dont think there is any way bush got his numbers in states and as a popular vote. so i agree with you

[Pachamama]

16. I believe they did it in a very smart and strategic way..a way that unless

...there is a full recount and audit and investigation that it could go un-noticed....particularly if the election is not contested...and the way they explain the "numbers" is too suggest the "Moral Value" initiative/mandate and how they miraculously as if God himself had a hand in it, managed to get as many people signed up from the churches and out to the polls and that if somehow has defied the exit polls and every single poll and bit of research that had been done in the months leading up to the election....I believe they purposely manipulated the actual numbers in some of the states using the computer voting machines. They did it in ways where it wouldn't be noticeable or amiss. They knew that the election would come close in to an Electoral showdown and they knew that they needed to show that he won the popular vote in order to "legitmize" himself....A few hundred votes in every precinct isn't going to sound alarm bells....And regarding Ohio, there is no question that they set the things in place that needed to be....I'm thinking Kerry realized that these people were in control and that he couldn't win this one and he wanted to salvage his political credibility for a fight on another day. My hunch is that with Daschle's loss and departure as Minority Leader of the Senate, that Kerry may be the one to replace him and then play the role of the check on the Bush administration while also trying to be the "uniter"....then perhaps try to run again in 2008...But I'm so stunned that there were atleast 250,000 provisional ballots uncounted, not to mention across the states the military and ex-pat vote still being sent in...How can an election that was always so close be called when not every vote has been called? That's un-democratic...it's un-american....

[LSK]

19. of course it was stolen!!!!!!!!!!

All the media talk about values is a BUNCH OF BULLSHIT. The media is not on our side, dont we know this by now?????

DIEBOLD DIEBOLD BBV!!!!!!!!!!!

All these DUers lamenting on something that went wrong with the campaign need to wake up. No it wasnt the IWR, it wasnt values, it wasnt gay rights, it wasnt abortion, it wasnt liberal this or liberal that, it wasnt Cheneys daughter, IT WAS STOLEN BY THE DIEBOLD MACHINES DAMMIT.

DUERS WAKE THE FUCK UP.

[LSK]

21. look at these pics and then convince me it wasnt stolen!

[Pachamama]

23. Thanks for the reminders....

...I thought I had been hallucinating and had remembered those images and then thought they must not have happened...just like the rally in Cleveland with Kerry on Election eve, the largest crowd at a political gathering in Ohio's history....And ofcourse all those long lines of people going to vote who were waiting in the rain, they were all the religious right, all there to vote for the little king and make sure they gave him a moral mandate....

:eyes:

[AnIndependentTexan]

24. Just imagine if all those people showed up in D.C. at once

[tavalon]

29. You just brought up what I'm working on right now.

I think our president deserves our "warm" welcome in January. Everyone who was at the RNC protest, at the anti Iraq war protests, the slacker tour and at Senator Roll Over's campaign rally's needs to be in Washington DC come inauguration day.

[requiem99]

25. And here is strong evidence to support your claim

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2602177&mesg_id=2602177&page=

[MagickMuffin]

26. I hear ya Girl

I can not believe that the (S)election was anything but fair.

How can we challenged the (S)election?
Is there a way that the disenfranchised can file a law suit?
Does all the people who voted or tried to vote able to file something like a class action lawsuit?

I know that Bev Harris is filing a FOI suit against 3000 counties nation wide, for the data, audit logs, etc.

I hope she will have access to the request before it is too late.

Also I appreciate all the hard work you put into the effort. It's people like you who make things possible!

If we pull resources together maybe we can expose the truth from the Darkness and bring it into the Light of Day

[foo_bar]

27. "Nobody I know voted for Nixon!"

[m berst]

28. kick n/t

.

[TruthIsAll]

30. kick

.

[Mandate My Ass]

31. Yes it was undoubtedly stolen

Even here the trolls say Bushco did better job of getting out the vote. Lie

Even here people say the massive youth turn out did not help Kerry. Lie

Even here people say the huge discrepancy between exit polls and EV results is not indicative of fraud. Lie

Even here people say counting the provisional and absentee ballots is futile because Bush's lead is too strong. Lie

Even here, despite evidence of GOP organized voter supression and intimidation is not the problem, the candidate, the party or the platform is the problem. Lie.

And it's not just the hearing these lies that's so disheartening, people here are trying to pass out the kool aid and I'm not drinking it.

[KWBS]

32. From a Republican that backed Kerry - Edwards

In 1980 the South had 26 Democratic Senators, today it has 4. If you look at the national "red versus blue" map at both State and County level it is not hard to see that the DNC has become very isolated from the mainstream of this nation.

2 to 1 Americans classify themselves as conservatives and many moderates vote to the right, not the left on many issues.

Bush has one Achilles Heel that will bring him down, take the wind out of his Imperial Sails and that is 9-11.

I was part of the 9-11 Confronting the Evidence in NYC this year. I was part of the criminal complaint that was delivered to Eliot Spitzer on October 28, 2004.

Over 55 million voted against and many of those voters were ecumenical Christians you people are blindly bashing. They were Conservative Republicans and Libertarians that crossed over to try to stop the Bush Junta and the fascism that is represents.

Right here in Arkansas - two key counties that NEVER vote REP did vote Republican this year. Jefferson and Nevada counties and there were others.

The problem with DNC is DNC and that it represents the fringe left and that is NOT America folks. 2 to 1 says this nation is a conservative nation and one that puts certain values front and center every time.

www.karlschwarz.com

http://www.reopen911.org/petition.php

http://www.justicefor911.org /

All of this talk about running Hillary Clinton in 2008. The RNC has been ready to destroy her since 1994. The strategy that took the House and Senate away from Clinton was designed and largely financed by me. Again, run Hillary, rash into the side of the mountain. They are just waiting for another stupid DNC move.

I took a stand for America, freedom, a turning away from Imperialism and fascism. I have received hundreds of emails from Dems asking what to do now. Frankly, DNC is not "resuscitate-able" in its current form. Lest no one noticed, Bush now controls a stronger US Senate and that is more frightening than him being there for 4 more years.

Every person that voted against Bush should be on those petitions linked above.

It is the only hope you have to stopping Bush, and I am the only Republican of the 100 original names on the petition.

If you have not done so, go to my website under Articles and read the DEMAND LETTER that I sent to Bush September 30, 2004 about 7 hours before the first debate and THEN - get this CLEARLY INTO YOUR HEADS -

that DEMAND LETTER was sent to DNC and Kerry too and they did not use it in the debates to evicerate Bush. CONSIDER THAT!

Both sides of the aisle are covering up 9-11 folks, who did it, who is profiting from it and they are AMERICANS.

Ashcroft was forced to resign due to that letter and I was advised from DC yesterday to NOT accept that as the sacrificial offering and let the rest of the DOERS OF 9-11 OFF THE HOOK!

Wake up Dems.

Karl