So what are they gonna do with the 48% of us who didn't vote for *?

[RandomKoolzip]

Put us in camps? Can they arrest us all? Jesus, that's pretty much half the fucking country! How much longer can they treat HALF THE COUNTRY as a "focus group?"

Bush ran on religion. And "rural values."

You know, yesterday, my wife and I drove thru rural western Wisconsin to pick up a couch we saw on Ebay. I saw so many Bush stickers and Bush signs I thought I was gonna barf. I remember pointing at every ramshackle, rundown double-wide with a tireless car out in the yard, an American Flag hanging off the front, and crap all over the front yard, and saying to my wife: "THAT fucker chose who MY president would be. " Some asshole who, twenty years ago, woulda been content running the local posse comitatus and sewing his own white hood suddenly now has the reins of power in the US. And you know how that schmuck feels about intellectual city folk.

I'm frankly tired of letting the "rural" voters choose our president for the rest of us. They are uneducated and proud of it, easily hypnotized by right-wing propaganda, and THEY OPENLY DESPISE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN CITIES. They are not progressive people; they yearn for a return to an idealized past that never existed, a past where the Bible was the law of the land, the farmer was king, homosexuals didn't exist, women were pregnant 200% of the time and niggers knew their place. Look at the maps: even in the red states, the counties housing large cities voted democratic. The "rural" voter has always derived his righteous anger from antagonism with cityfolk, who he blames for all of his country's ills.

Why are we letting those people who refuse to admit that the 20th century is over decide who shall lead us into the 21st century? Why do THEY have so much power? Why do the religious superstitions of easily manipulated people who distrust progress trump the serious concerns of the people who actually OWN the businesses, work in the businesses, and patronize the businesses that run the economy?

What scares me is that we now have to cater to these people. THEIR president is openly persuing a fascist agenda, but they DON'T MIND, in fact they think it's a hoot. They've never liked us urbanites and this is their revenge.

Trouble is, we're HALF THE COUNTRY TOO. We're seeing the age-old friction between the overall-clad militiaman out in the sticks, outnumbered and paranoid, and the sophisticates in the city. Except the militiaman isn't outnumbered anymore.

[theboss]

1. You know, we've lost elections before

We are going to survive.

And out of curiosity, don't you think one of the reasons we can't win anywhere by the northest, Great Lakes, and West Coast is your disdain for "rural" voters. I mean, that rant makes me want to vote against anything you agree with.

[Wat_Tyler]

6. And it makes me want to vote alongside him.

Why market yourself to people who will never respect or care about you? Do you think that's how Bush got elected?

[Blue_Roses]

26. His "rant" is right on

why do you keep trying to pour cold water on anyone who dissents with Bush? Its your pattern:eyes:

[theboss]

28. I'm not against dissenting from Bush

I'm against the insanity that keeps costing us elections. If you haven't noticed, we apparently can't win in areas that don't have harbors. And the reason for this is everyone in the red areas thinks that we (liberal elitists) mock them and disdain them. I honestly believe that most voters in the South agree with us on the majority of the issues. But they believe that we think we are better than them. Well, apparently we do.

Would you vote for someone who thinks that way?

[davepc]

2. Your elitism wont win any of them back to our cause

AND THESE WERE THE SAME PEOPLE FDR BUILT THE MODERN DEMOCRATIC PARTY AROUND

These people are NOT THE ENEMY. They are lost souls in need of salvation. Salvation from corporatism and fascism, salvation from government that doesn't have their best interest in mind.

But we're not going to change their minds by driving out to their rural homes and telling them to sit down, shut up, and listen to how its gonna be cause we're just oh-so-much smarter then them city folk and we know better and they don't.

Bill Clinton went out there and talked to them, understood them, gained their confidence. And WE WON. TWICE.




SEE THE DIFFERENCE?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. That Map Is Misleading...

God I wish it was the truth...

Clinton got a smaller % of votes in 92 than Dukakis got in 88... He had Perot siphoning off 20%...

We will never know with certainty what that map would have looked like sans Perot......

[davepc]

4. fair point

but in 96 Peroit only got 8% of the vote.

Our REAL base, the FDR base, the Truman base, the JFK base, the LBJ base, the Carter base...they're still out there. We need to bring them back.

They're not too far gone, we can do it.
What we cant do is sit in our Ivory urban towers and dictate to them from on high.

[sunnybrook]

9. are dems red and reps blue on this map

want to be sure I'm reading this right

[davepc]

10. yes

its flipped from the "traditional" method.

[TahitiNut]

17. Just show me where the Free-Fire Zones are.

:grr:

[davepc]

23. i don't catch your meaning.

[PotatoBoy]

14. Sorry but the 2004 map looks like bullshit to me

Come on. Look at Illinois. We know for a fact it's majority blue. ESPECIALLY Chicagoland, which is grey on that map.

Sorry. I've seen that map before and I think the numbers there are an outright lie.

[alwynsw]

30. You are correct in part.

The population majority is blue. I have no idea why Chicagoland looks gray, but it went solidly for Kerry. Most of the rest of the state is rural, which in this election went for Bush. The counties as shown mean little. It's the population centers in states like IL that carried the Dem vote.

[LisaL]

21. Yea, sure, I see the difference.

Your first map has GOP blue and DEM red. Look at the little sign to the right. You have your colors in reverse.
:eyes:
Who are you kidding?

[LuminousX]

5. Want to change it?

Then do some voter education. Take time to go into rural communities, help organize the Democratic Party there, take time to learn the true issues that are affecting their daily lives. We do have some form of elitism going on in our party right now and we need to stop it. We need to realize that sometimes we need to come down and mingle with those people you speak so awful of and share with them.

You want to pass healthcare reform, don't talk about 'single payer systems' and crap like that because people don't understand what you mean. Instead tell them something tangible about how their current healthcare/insurance experience will change. Tell them how they will never have to argue with an insurance company about a denied claim again.

You want to fight a culture war with them, then again engage them in a conversation. Find out why they think why a marriage between homosexuals threatens marriages between heterosexuals. Ask them if they want a teacher to teach their children religion or a minister. Ask them if they would accept passages of the Koran posted on classroom walls alongside the 10 Commandments.

We won't win them over by calling them names, by degrading them, by making them feel very unwelcome in our party.

[kwolf68]

22. Quit making sense

I appreciate your objective vision and comments. You are also very CORRECT.

[Maiden England]

31. Damn, thats a great point

you hit the absolute nail on the head. We really do need to build up a Dem base in the rural areas. Our natural policy is way more appealing to the voters here, than the repugs, but we have no link to them.

[Snellius]

7. Wait until they're forced to cut off their rural farm welfare?

Many of these rural farmers, especially in the corn belt and cotton and tobacco regions of the South, are heavily subsidized by federal farm subsidies and pork-barrel giveaways like ethanol. If the conservatives really want to cut back government to fit their tax cuts these welfare farmers should be the first to go.

[davepc]

12. We passed the freedom to farm act in 1996

that did just that. Bush and his congress repealed it in 02.

[Harlan James]

8. Anybody made this bumper sticker yet?

George W. Bush
is not my president.

I'd buy one. Just don't put any dumb pictures on it.

[PotatoBoy]

11. I'll make one...

I need some time. It will say:

GEORGE W. BUSH: Not my president. Not my problem.

[RebelOne]

13. Yes, go to this Web site.

http://www.cafepress.com/irregulargoods/402893

[rniel]

15. I'm from Rural Idaho

Our senator Mike Crapo won against his democratic challenger 99.4% to .6%

Me and my whole family voted Kerry. We're all college educated and don't live in a trailer. he he

[HughBeaumont]

16. Unlike most people in this thread, I'm with you on this one.

Reaching out to people who think it's still 1986 is pointless. These people are the ones who need to evolve, not us kowtowing to their moralistic and backwards way of thought. Call it elitist if you want, I truly don't care; I see them as a non-caring, non-thinking race of people that are as stubborn as they are stupid.

Did you ever think that many of those who voted for Bush couldn't care less whether there's already more dead Iraqi children being carted off in trucks as a result of our bullshit than there are fetuses killed by abortion? Did you ever think that these people who regard the US as "heroes in the War on Terror" could ever be convinced that a) it hasn't even started yet, b) the victims of 9/11 STILL remain unavenged and c) we've already destroyed 33 times more lives in this stupid war than they have on 9/11? You think you can explain to them in plain English why a debt that's pretty soon going to equal what our economy is worth is seriously BAD NEWS?

You HONESTLY think that they would listen?

I don't.

They can keep this simian. He's not my president.

[davepc]

18. Straight out of 1930's Germany!

"I see them as a non-caring, non-thinking race of people that are as stubborn as they are stupid."

Adolf Hitler himself would be proud of your ability to dehumanize an entire group of people with sweeping generalizations! Good job!

[HughBeaumont]

24. Oh PLEASE!!

What a stupid analogy. Don't drag me into this whole "don't hate, alleviate" stupidity because I'm telling the truth. Take it from someone who's actually TRIED reasoning with them - They vote the way they do because they fear or hate something or someone, whether it's liberals, gays, blacks, the government, city dwellers, etc. Did you know that one of these people I talked to actually thinks (and still does despite me sending him tons of info to the contrary) that homosexuality is a disease like cancer?

Believe me, I've tried. It's simply impossible. "Agree to disagree" is all I get. Me trying to reason with them about why the information they've been fed is backward and ludicrous is about as futile as telling a CEO he needs to stop being overly greedy to avoid a two-class society.

[alwynsw]

19. Gee, what did WE do with the 56% that didn't vote Clinton in '92?

Although we would have lost this year, I still say that the Electoral College has to go.

In the interim, get a grip. Life goes on. Work for the mid-term elections and start gearing up for '08.

BTW. You want to keep bashing rural America (I'm a rural American), think twice before you eat. Make sure that burger and the wheat for the bun was grown on an urban farm.

[leftofthedial]

20. just shit on us for four more years

send our jobs overseas

tax us higher (through state and local increases)

systematically eliminate the civil liberties we have accrued through long struggle

move more of us into poverty

eliminate helath care coverage for more of us

continue to pollute our water and our air

force their heinous and psychotic religious practices on us

kill thousands and thousands more in our names using our money

loot what little is left in the treasury and the future treasury and divvy it up among their rich friends

[ieoeja]

25. They perceive city folk as looking down upon them.

Thing is when I moved from a farm in southern Indiana to Chicago, I ran into that attitude and didn't much care for it either. Except, of course, I hadn't actually moved from southern Indiana to Chicago. I moved to a suburb of Chicago full of staunch conservative Republicans. But it all looked the same to me.

It took me two years of not dressing correctly, not talking correctly, not wearing the right clothes, not walking (I kid you not) correctly, etc before I moved into the city where I found that "hillbilly" is just one more ethnic group in the great diversity of Chicago. And as an English speaking (more-or-less) group, we are more welcome than most!

Turns out all those big city liberals looking down on me were neither liberal, nor in the big city. They were conservatives from the suburbs. I try pointing this out to folk down home though, and they just look at me weird. "Suburbs, Chicago, what's the difference? They're still a bunch of educated elitists who don't know anything about our lives."

There is some truth to that last statement. But it is the ones who ridicule them with whom they have made a political marriage, because the rural folk "don't know anything about" the lives of the city folk either and are just as uninterested in learning.

[choicevoice]

27. We have to separate the reasonable christian from the fundamentalist

evangelical factions. We have to actually demonize the "fundamentalist" like they did the "liberals" and at the same time scare the shit out of the general population as to their agenda. We have to quit saying that they are stupid. They were stupid enough to take our country away with the help of the republicans. They make the perfect pair.

We need to figure out how to quit blaming the red states for our failure to capture their votes. Fundamentalists scared the crap out of people by saying things like we were going to ban the bible, we were going to make their kids gay, we were going to teach their kids how to have sex then make them abort. All nonsensical lies but very effective.

We need to get organized and plan a strategy of our campaign.

We need to figure out a media plan.

We need to get their playbook and take from it what works as distasteful as that might be. Democrats want to include and help and care for all people which is good and noble but we need to start by showing America just who is in charge now and what their agenda is.

We need to be media savy. They want to ban abortion. We can't just say that we want to keep abortion as an option for women, blah, blah, blah. We have to word it in such a way that it scares the crap out of women all over the country. EX: Fundamentalist Evangelicals seeking to change laws for FORCED BIRTH INITIATIVE. Using the word "fundamentalist" rings a subconscious bell in their head because it is a term that is often used to describe the radical Muslim factions we are fighting in Iraq. The word abortion is like the word liberal, it conjures up images of dead babies. Instead put the image in their head of women lying on hospital beds being FORCED to give birth.

We can put information out there that is basically factual but put out to the country in a way that they will make the common sense rural christian think. Imagine people hearing things like "Factions of the Radical Fundamentalist want to ban the selling, buying and use of oral contraceptives" That will scare the bejeebus out of every pill taking female if we say it loud and often enough.

We can use the same strategy regarding radical republicans etc.

Thoughts anyone?

[RandomKoolzip]

32. I like the way you think.

Use the term elitist all you want, people. It's true: I don't WANT to be stupid, live in a trailer, and strew used auto parts about my lawn. I don't WANT to stay ignorant, read only the Bible, and bone up on "Christian Identity" teachings. I don't WANT to be racist, fascist, etc. If this makes me "elitist," call me elitist.

However, the label really won't make any sense. I've been working class my whole life. There've been times, whole three-year long stretches, when I've worked two or three full-time jobs just to pay the rent; does THAT make me an elitist? Being working class is no excuse for being ignorant. Libraries lend out books for free; just cuz you're poor doesn't mean you HAVE to remain uneducated. You have freedom of choice in this country. If I seem disdainful of those rednecks out there voting solely on second amendment issues and abortion, it's because I AM DISDAINFUL OF ANYONE WHO REFUSES TO TAKE UP THE OPTION OF BETTERING THEIR STATION IN LIFE. For crissake, who's holding a gun to these fuckers's heads and saying, "You read a book besides the Bible and you die, asshole!" Is it peer pressure? Is it because the only sense of community they can get is from church. I don't know.


Anyways, if you haven't read "The Republican Noise MAchine," you need to. The rich ideologues who own the media are just as disdainful of the rural as me, excpt they're disingenuous about it because they need their votes.

So, yeah....everybody go read that book. I'm outta here.

[Nederland]

29. Quite frankly

The exact same thing that we would do for them if the numbers were reversed.

Nothing.