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Let's Develop a Plan RE: Fraud (Important!)

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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 01:01 PM
Original message
Let's Develop a Plan RE: Fraud (Important!)
Edited on Thu Nov-04-04 01:07 PM by EOTE
Let’s Develop a Plan

Like most of you I was and am bitterly disappointed by the results of our national election. Also like most of you I strongly suspect that the presidential election, and perhaps others as well, were stolen by means of the manipulation of computer software used in electronic voting machines. And I think that it is great that so many members of this organization are focusing on this issue and trying to do something about it.

Because I was so strongly predisposed to believe that this election was stolen, after reading the DU home page on November 3rd I was greatly perplexed by the apparent complacency shown by the Democratic leadership and the news media concerning this issue. Don’t they know what’s happening? Why is Paul Begala talking about the need for the Democrats to have a clearer message, rather than the need to expose the election fraud? And why did Kerry concede so early?

However, after I found the time to actually review the information presented by various DUers on this website it became evident to me that the situation is not currently as obvious as I was led (or led myself) to believe. Yes, there is good reason to suspect election fraud. But the analyses that are currently being presented are far from conclusive, and I can certainly understand why responsible news media and even the Democratic leadership are not at this time publicly making a big issue about this.

Therefore, I would like to suggest that we adopt a three step plan, to include: 1) gathering of all relevant data; 2) a complete scientific and unbiased analysis of the data, followed by a report; and, 3) dissemination of the information.

Ideally, the data that we should try to obtain includes:
1) Individual state data on exit polls, including not only the point spreads but the actual numbers used (from which margins of error, or confidence intervals can be determined). To save work we could limit the number of states to those in which the final margin of victory was less than 8%.
2) Geographic distribution on the electronic voting machines, by type of machine, for which no paper trail is available. If we can’t get this information by precinct, then at least we should try to obtain the percent use by state.
3) The methodology that was used to conduct the exit polls.

The analysis would look at the differences between exit poll results and actual vote totals, and compare these differences for geographical areas where paper trails were available versus those where they were not (as well as comparison between different types of voting machines that lack paper trails). The more specific (i.e., smaller) the geographical areas we have to work with the stronger the analysis would be, but if we could only compile information by state that would probably be sufficient. Statistical analysis should be done to determine the probabilities that the observed differences could occur by chance.

I believe that it is very important to do this for two reasons. First, to prevent election fraud in the future, and second, to quell the belief that seems to be sweeping the country that this election constitutes a mandate for Bush and his agenda, and that politicians better fall in line with him if they want to get re-elected.

As an epidemiologist I have performed many studies which utilize methods similar to what I described above, and had the results published in epidemiology, public health, and medical journals. Therefore, I would be happy to do step 2 of the plan I described above if others of you could do steps 1 and 3. Or, if somebody else is already working on this, I would be happy to help out. Whoever writes the report, I think that the full report should be posted on this website, so that others can provide constructive comments and criticism, so as to provide an opportunity for informed revision of the report prior to its distribution.

If this is done right, and if this type of vote fraud was practiced on a large scale in key states in this election, I believe that we should be able to prove this conclusively.

Mods, do you think this could be put in the Help and Support forum as well? I'd like as many people as possible to see this.

Oh, and if anyone would like to private message me with any info, please do.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Please don't let this thread die!
A lot of work was put into this and it's extremely important if we want to squash the notion that * has a mandate. If fraud has occured, it's of the utmost importance that we uncover it.
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Maiden England Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. kick
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batchdem04 Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. kick..
if we want to move ANYWHERE w/this...we need to get organized quickly

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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Thank you.
And I agree. If you thought the past 4 years were awful, imagine how bad the next 4 will be if they've convinced the country that they have a mandate.
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emalejim9 Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. State by state initiatives and propositions
How do we combat the touch screens?? I say we do it state by state with initiatives or propositions that ban them from being used or require a paper trail.

This idea would be easy to gather signatures. Unless the Repukes want to show their true colors that they are not for a fair elections.

Regardless of party, I believe people want some kind of assurance that their vote would be counted
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. We combat them by proving that they're fraudulent.
We prove that they are fraudulent by comparing the discrepancies between the exit polling and the 'actual' results in areas where E-voting is prominent and areas where paper balloting is used. If that's going to be done, I need all your assistance. Please help!
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. One last kick.
And a final plea asking anyone who has any pertinent information to message me. Please, any info would be greatly appreciated.
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Robert Oak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. DNC?
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/ looks like they are raising money
to get the records released through the feedom of information act.

I think the DNC should fund this effort or at least we should try to get them involved.

I believe they have the precinct per precinct information already.

I am sure we can get many volunteers to run the numbers. I personally can crank with custom programming, matlab, etc.

I also think we should run the entire US due to the problems Gore
strategically made in not demanding an entire Florida state wide
recount.

Also, I am sure they are getting wiser about election fraud, so
error distribution could be committed with random time intervals,
upping the vote in "red" states to increase the overall popular vote,
random distribution and so on.

I just read a post about optical scanners coming up with a 105% Republican turn out. That's even more frightening, but this could
at least be traced with a paper audit.
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BayStateBoy Donating Member (562 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. We Don't Need Demographic Data. It's More Simple than That
The legitimacy of democratic elections is inexorably predicated upon the electorate's ability to verify the results which is only possible with a tangible ballot giving a permenent record. Indeed, The history of democratic voting is a history of ballot recounts and the ability to conduct them.

A ballot that cannot be physically verified or interrogated is no different than a vote by someone with no verifiable name or residence. It is like making a bank deposit with no receipt and the institution retains no hard copy of the transaction.

If it's not good enough for our financial transactions, it's certainly not good enough for our elections. Yet, this was the voting method used in about 1/4th of US precincts including 7 counties in Ohio.

Although George W. Bush rode the moral value issue into the ground and it surely benefited him, he was propelled him to "victory" by the "black box" votes that cannot be verified or legitimized.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. We do need demographic data.
It is terribly unfortunate, but black box voting is a fact of life for the time being. I agree with your assessment that BBV is no different than a vote being cast by something without a verifiable name, but it's what we're stuck with. That's why we need statistical proof that Diebold machines were providing fraudulent returns. We need to make sure that all future elections are decided by legitimate means.
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Q3JR4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. kick
This is important.

:kick:
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. KICK
kerry and edwards left coded message to us
BY THE PEOPLE
not litigation
IMHO conceeded quickly to speed up the process
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GingerSnaps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. Kick
:kick:
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inmania Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. kick
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thank you.
Thanks to all of you for keeping this kicked. I hate to seem self-serving, but I'd really appreciate it if any of you would nominate this for the home page. Once again, I'd be glad to do the analysis if one or more people can provide me with the raw data. I'm sure there are people out there who can provide me with this info. Thanks again for your help.
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
16. kick
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
17. kick
:kick:
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. kick
:kick:
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. kick
:kick:
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
20. Lets go and lets get other voting organizations on board too***
We really dont have a lot of time either.
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wysi Donating Member (475 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
21. kick
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countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. kick
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m berst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-04-04 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
23. kick n/t
.
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