What do DUers think of the idea of Dean becoming DNC Chair?

[RogueTrooper]

As a supporter of Dean during the primary campaign many can probably guess what I think but I am interested in the views of those who did not support Dr. Dean or "fell out of love" with him at some point.

[JI7]

1. i would be happy with Dean

my personal choice is joe lockhart based on what i know of him and seen.

i would be happy with dean also, but i haven't seen him as i have seen lockhart so don't have an opinion on how he will be. i know in the fundraising area he would do well. but dnc chair includes other things also.

[Guaranteed]

3. What I saw of Joe Lockhart was him

losing this election for us.

[AP]

12. How?

[Guaranteed]

13. Look, I'll give him that the campaign actually did much

better when he finally came in, but the truth is that we lost. And we lost big.

[AP]

23. So he doesn't get any credit for making a positive difference?

It would be a waste of all the built-up know how just to toss aside people who were good and smart but didn't produce a winner.

Would you do that if you owned a business? Would you jettison ALL your most experienced employees just because you had one bad year? Would you replace them all with a bunch of people with no experience.

[gavodotcom]

85. If I owned a business, and the last three sales were lost to a competitor

I'd fire my salesmen.

I see what you're saying, but the analogy doesn't make sense. The Dems need new blood. If not now, when?

[Julien Sorel]

51. We lost by 3%.

And talking about other peoples' wins and losses and then championing Dean seems a little contradictory.

[RogueTrooper]

4. Thanks for replying J17

Dean hintes at something happening on Friday. Atrios has said something is in the air. And I know that Dean is held if far higher esteem by "the money" than many of his supporters have realized.

[Doohickie]

39. I was totally against Dean as a candidate for Pres

But I think he would make the perfect DNC chair. We all have our gifts, and motivating others to action is his.

[candy331]

74. Isn't that just lovely, Dean is not good enough to be President

and neither is Bush but Bush is reelected, seems even Zell Miller was right when he said A national party no more.

[barb162]

76. I love the idea of Dean as DNC chairman. He's a straight shooter.

And he invigorates people!

[Doohickie]

78. Sorry, but I just don't think Dean would have been a good pres

The more I learned about him the less I liked him.

The more I learned about Kerry the more I liked him.

[candy331]

80. Well it seems Kerry didn't like you he conceeded before the votes

were finished counting but I'm sure in your mind it was the right thingto do for the unity of the country.

[gavodotcom]

84. Can you explain?

I'm not angry, I just don't know what you're talking about.

[Doohickie]

87. He just never really grabbed me

I think he's a good guy and all, but he just doesn't seem like presidential material. I think the Vermont gay marriage thing would have made it a Bush landslide.

[ShaneGR]

64. NO DEAN!!! NO LOCKHART!!!

I nominate Spongebob Squarepants.

[Guaranteed]

2. It's absolutely necessary. nt

[bill]

5. It's the first step n/t

[JNelson6563]

6. Yes, Dean!

He's all about grassroots which is what this party needs! And, bonus, he's got a spine!!

Julie

[Dookus]

7. I think it's a good spot for him

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

8. Love the idea

[Spirochete]

I've wanted that

since he lost in the primaries.

[Spirochete]

9. I've wanted that

since he lost in the primaries.

On edit: Hmmm.. my first double post ever on this board. My mouse has been double clicking everything. Time to fix, I suppose.

[Mizmoon]

10. Fine by me

Couldn't be worse than Terry.

[dolstein]

11. I think it would be a total disaster

We need a DNC Chair that ANY Democratic candidate ANYWHERE in the country would be happy to campaign with. I'm sure Howard Dean has many fine qualities, but the fact of the matter is that no Democratic candidate for statewide office in any red state is going to want to be seen with him. And every Republican running against a Democrat in a red state will call his opponent a "Howard Dean Democrat". That's just the honest truth.

[RogueTrooper]

14. Would this be despite the success

and strength of Democracy for America in the Red States? Or Howard Dean's popularity with moderate Republicans?

dolstein look at the Colorado state election and then look at who was running those campaigns. You might see Dean people.

Also, look at Dean's support in the MidWestern "Red States" before the Iowa Implosion.

[dolstein]

24. Find me some evidence of Howard Dean's popularity in red states

Howard Dean may have had support from Democratic primary voters in mid-Western red states before Iowa, but obviously (1) that support wasn't very strong, because it dissipated rapidly and (2) support among activist primary voters doesn't automatically translate into support among general election voters.

As for Colorado, let's look at Ken Salazar. He's not what I would describe as a "Howard Dean" Democrat.

[RogueTrooper]

31. As for his support in the midwest

1. he was a lame duck candidate by that point.
2. Prove it. I have been coming here since just after selection 2000 and this is the second time I have watched, as we had our asses handed to us by a ruthless Republican party. It is time to try something different.

I have just looked at Salazar's site and he shares many of the same positions Dean does. So, I have to respectfuly disagree, Ken Salazar does look like a Dean candidate. The only variance is tha he does not mention his views on civil unions. Dean does not support same sex marriage, just a states right to choose it's own laws on that matter.

[TeacherCreature]

67. Kerry didn't exactly rock the red states, did he?

The "electable" strategy has led us another disastrous defeat.

Now they want to blame the gays and "muzzle" them, or so i read here.

I say bring in enlightened, progressive, pragmatic leadership.

I say bring in Dr. Dean!!!!

[madfloridian]

83. Exactly, none of our candidates would do well in some states.

"I say bring in enlightened, progressive, pragmatic leadership."

Yes, I say.

[JNelson6563]

42. doltsteins' still bitter of Joe-mentum

pay him no nevermind

[IrateCitizen]

15. Dear God, this is the third time I've agreed with dolstein...

... in the past two days. I'd better have my head examined. ;-)

I don't think that Dean as DNC chair would be a "disaster". However, I do agree that he would bring certain liabilities to the table.

Personally, I think that Dean is in a great place right now, where he is. He can operate outside of the party hacks, actually organizing grassroots efforts and campaigns.

However, the idea of him as DNC chair has a nice "clean sweep" ring to it, but it would require essentially sweeping the entire damned stable clean and making a fresh start. I don't see that happening until Dean's grassroots efforts grow to the point that people involved simply perform a hostile takeover of the DNC itself.

[Guaranteed]

16. What are Dean's liabilities? nt

[RogueTrooper]

21. His penchant for intemperate comments

that can offend people ( although that weakness is made up by his ability to make up with people afterwards ).

An example...

During the Primary campaign, he was at Brown U. A student approached him and to talk about crime and the treatment of criminals. Dean's response: "Your not going all liberal on me?"

[Guaranteed]

22. A little personality is something our party needs right about now.

Someone with the courage to say the things that need to be said, too.

[sangh0]

34. propoganda

The post referred to "intemperance" not "personality"

[Guaranteed]

52. Intemperance is an aspect of personality, is it not?

Just one side of the same coin- outspokenness?

[sangh0]

54. Tails are a part a dog

but talk about tails is not talk about dogs.

Just one side of the same coin- outspokenness?

Yes, and killing is the other side of love.

:crazy:

[Guaranteed]

75. Yes, it IS a part of personality.

Thus, a little intemperance, or, how about outspokenness, is a little personality. And we need a little personality.

That's called LOGIC, my friend.

Thank you, thank you.

[RogueTrooper]

18. There is a strong truth to that IC

However, one thing we should acknowledge is that our GOTV effort suffered because too many of the groups could not work in co-ordination with the DNC nor could they mention Kerry by name ( if reports I have been reading are accurate ).

I would say that you are following the Kos model ( the DNC will be replaced by a distributed organizational model ). My opinion is that we should take the expertise of these 527's and PACs and bring them into the center.

[IrateCitizen]

35. I would greatly disagree with that opinion. Here's why.

What Dean (and other groups, for that matter) are doing is effective because it is happening OUTSIDE of the official realm of the Democratic Party.

I think that it's a pretty popular sentiment that the Democratic Party is kind of fouled up right now. They're throwing the same tired hacks out there in charge of every campaign, and they're finding the same degree of success. They're losing the war of ideas. Their entire strategy seems built around, "We're not Republicans. Vote for us!"

By bringing all of these groups in under the umbrella of the DNC, you would be absolutely slamming the door shut on the fresh air they are bringing. They would soon become as stale as the DNC is.

I think that these groups need to operate outside of the DNC for a while, producing leaders who will eventually take over the DNC en masse, wresting its control from beltway insiders and hacks.

But, that's just my opinion -- and what I'll be working toward.

[sangh0]

29. I find it odd that with Dean being successful at what he's now doing

people are calling on him to stop it, and do something else.

He's doing EXACTLY what they want him to. He's helping to build the Democratic Party and push it in a progressive direction.

And some people are thinking "Boy, we better stop that"

[AntiCoup2K4]

36. Exactly WHY we need Dr. Dean

However, the idea of him as DNC chair has a nice "clean sweep" ring to it, but it would require essentially sweeping the entire damned stable clean and making a fresh start.

This is exactly what needs to happen. Especially the complete and total destruction of the neocon shitbag infiltrators known as the DLC.

[sangh0]

43. You're putting the cart before the horse

The Minority Leader has absolutely NO POWER to sweep anyone out of office. The Minority Leader is chosen by the Dem members making it unlikely that the ML will turn around and "sweep away" the people that just voted him into that office.

[ibegurpard]

19. I agree that Dean is damaged goods

Thanks to the backstabbers in our own party. But his ideas about rebuilding the party from the ground up are sound.
You do not have any idea of what is going to play in the "red" states. You pontificate about it from your metropolitan democratic bastions and you don't actually know what the people out here in red-state America are really like, except from your superficial readings of polls.

[Zensea]

30. As a former redstater... who lives in a blue state now

I lived in Kansas for 25 years, I lived in Missouri for 5 years, I lived in Ohio for 5 years & I couldn't agree with you more. Kansas is a red state and has a Democratic governor. Montana is a red state and has a newly elected Democratic governor.
I know a lot of poeple in Kansas and a lot of Democrats there and everyone of them would have no problem at all with Howard Dean.

[madfloridian]

81. I am in Jeb's red state.....he was way ahead of Kerry in the polls.

His DFA groups here are quite large and ours is growing again.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. I'm Not A Huige Dean Fan But Clinton Won In 92 With An African American

Chairman

Ron Brown...

[dolstein]

27. Most Americans had no idea who Ron Brown was . . .

that's not the case with Howard Dean. If you're going to have a high visibility figure chairing the DNC, then you better make sure that he's someone with broad appeal, both geographically and ideologically.

[madfloridian]

71. Isn't it sad what our party became? A good man like Howard Dean shunned?

Our party should be ashamed of that. It is figuring in to our decision as the progressive groups being to get together.

To take a good man who governed so well, and treat him like dirt.

You seem to think it is ok.

[candy331]

77. Madfloridian, "Let them eat cake" basically the same people who

screamed no Dean ABD are still in high gear even after just being handed their ass in hat.They have to just be disregarded, Dean is too damn good for them.A real principled man with principles and yet they reject him for a false messiah who will never show up. I hope Dean does keep working outside this party until they finish choking to death.

[madfloridian]

82. I agree, I would prefer him with DFA.. The blog is jammed today.

Have you noticed a lot of folks returning? It started last week. They have been busy working, or just not feeling the need for the blog. I seldom post there, but I always read it.

He said in the conference call he would continue with DFA, and he once said the DNC chair would be a thankless job.

I think he has other things to do, like DFA. The meet-up last night was such a comfort. My hubby has been dangerously angry, and he calmed down at the meet-up. We added a few more, and some will be coming back for the winter.

We have not put the meetings in the paper yet, and will wait a while to work with the core group.

[candy331]

88. Thanks for the info, I always enjoy your posts, you truly go out of

your way to honor and respect others feelings. I am not surprised that things turned out the way they have in this election. I want Dean to stay out until he gets the power to overcome the rabid Dems who keeps pushing the same old puke politics destined for defeat. I truly believe that the defeat in elections in 06 which will surely take place will wind up the Dems. Doing the same old thing expecting different results is futile. I also hope that Dean will see when/if the time arrives that if he needs to move beyond the party he needs to do so, to continue to be loyal to a disloyal and unsupported party is counter productive. Dean can win with grass roots backing but he has to get even more backbone and spin off the party ties.

[sampsonblk]

17. He is the only one who deserves it

His efforts at least put us in the game.

[davepc]

25. Sure.

"I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks."

Dean understands the problem.

[demokatgurrl]

26. I like him where he is- a free agent, answering to nobody. n/t

[madfloridian]

28. The party wants someone who is on script, always, all the time.

I doubt very seriously they will allow Dean to hold any position in the party at this time. He crossed the leadership. The DLC then attacked him as fringe, lefty, and so on, knowing full well he was not.

People are so unused to someone just speaking what they believe that it totally blows their mind.

Our party as it is now will not permit it.

Our party as it is now is scripted, and moving hard right to keep up the Republicans who are chasing the fundamentalist vote.

I am sticking with DFA and other progressive movements. I may never be a part of the DNC again until they stop pandering to and being afraid of their OWN morals and values.

Now I am Southern Baptist, and I think my party is wrong for pandering to Christians....so what does that tell you?

Howard Dean is a breath of fresh air. I think they will step on him like a bug and squash him, and they will try to do the same to any who want to be moderate. Moderate, mind you...that is how far right we are becoming.

[GreenPartyVoter]

32. I love it, unless Kerry does get in somehow, in which case we need him

for Sec'y HHS.

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[Krupskaya]

33. Please! Someone explain to me...

...how Howard Dean is something new and edgy and liberal. To me, he's a warmed over DLCer who happens to have some personality. And if anyone uses the word "progressive" with me, I'm going to scream, because "progressive" is what's wrong with this party now.

We grassrooted the hell out of this election, and where did it get us? There's a place for Dean, but it's not DNC chair.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. I'd be fine with that

I didn't like Dean as a candidate, because I think he was an example of style over substance and really didn't appeal to my blue collar Dem relatives at all--they called him "the yuppie candidate"--but I think he'd be great as a replacement for Terry McAuliffe. He knows how to raise money, and he's not afraid to speak up.

[hippiechick]

38. ABSOLUTELY !!!

:hippie:

[jacksonian]

40. Dean, DNC chair? absolutely F*****G yes!!!!

call the Doctor!

[buddhamama]

41. I'm ambivalent

I think he'd be a good choice. Dean has superb leadership skills. He's shown he can invigorate the masses with his passion and, well, raise lots of money too.

I haven't given it much thought to be completely honest.

My mind had been occupied with defending myself for 1)being a woman
and 2)believing in Equality and Justice.

:hi: Rogue

[RogueTrooper]

44. hey buddhamamma

:hi:

[Monist]

45. Great - if we want to lose again in 2002 and 2008

What relevant experience does Dean have, other than losing the primaries?

[Monist]

46. Obviously I meant 2006 and 2008

[RogueTrooper]

47. Multipule election victories

as a Govenor, against Republicans. Surely the role of the DNC Chair should be focused on beating Republicans not Democrats. He is one of the few Democrats to have given the Religious Right a hiding. That alone makes him a candidate worth talking about.

[buddhamama]

50. Huh? Democracy for America

a grassroots Org founded by Dean that raised awareness of the issues, lots of money and helped get out the vote.

[no name no slogan]

48. Dean & Kucinich people made a difference in MN

Kerry won with a decent margin in MN. Furthermore, we took back 13 state leg seats, and nearly defeated a two-term Republican incumbent in a heavily-Republican district.

The DFL got a serious transfusion of grassroots activism this year from both Dean and Kucinich's campaign. We were the only two who had ground organizations in the state. After Dean dropped out, his entire organization moved to Edwards, who came in a solid 2nd here behind Kerry (Kucinich got 1/5 of the caucus vote-- not bad for a zero-budget all-volunteer campaign).

Somebody like Dean may be exactly what the DNC needs. He's a fighter, he speaks to the people, he's not afraid to tell the truth, and he appeals to many moderates who appreciate his candor and courage to do what's right instead of what's perceived as popular.

Right now, ANYTHING is better than the corporate ass-kissers we currently have. 12 years is 11 years too many.

[Julien Sorel]

49. As long as he doesn't run for president again, fine.

But I'm hearing he's almost definitely running, so all this is moot.

[jjanpundt]

53. Only if he's allowed the same

freedom he exercises on DFA. We need new blood. I love his enthusiasm for democracy.

[Redleg]

55. Excellent idea.

I would definitely support it. Dean can do a lot to re-energize us.

[MsTryska]

56. he's perfect for the position.

I married kerry when I laid eyes on him, but Dean has the fire necessary to head the DNC i think.

[n2mark]

57. Dean

would love to see Dean the head of the Democratic Party. He is not afraid to speak out and can raise money. The problem with the Democratic party is they will not speak out, they have the fear factor and to be honest I am tired of this fear factor or walking on egg shells. He is what we need to have the party to pick themselves up by the bootstraps and fight. If the Democratic party spoke out during the summer months, we might have won. But, they sat on their duffs while the RNC fought for the idiot. They waited until the last month to say anything, too late baby.

I also feel we need to rattle the Democrats and leave the fear of the shrub, Dean will do this I am confident. The democrats need to hear the Dean scream and wake up.

[PissedOffPollyana]

58. Dean has his fans but is not the man

We need someone in charge that can:
1) organize the GOTV in-house rather than counting on 527's
2) bridge the gap between the factions of the party
3) keep the war chest growing
4) not lose sight of the need to keep competitive in local/regional races
5) appeal to all the facets of the party
6) have a draw power that allows for 'face time' in the media

In considering all of these necessary elements, there is one achingly obvious choice for the job ... Bill Clinton.

[madfloridian]

68. You do realize that the party will go further to the right then?

Not be as progressive? Is that what you want? I won't say more, but there goes the civil unions for gays. And he told Kerry to vote for the marriage ban.


Now I am not gay, but I have a lot of respect for those who are. I think our party should be a home to them. I am Southern Baptist, and I was raised very moderately. Still am, actually.

He told people not to vote for Dean because of the VT civil unions bill. That is how it is....that is the way the party is going.

I am hearing that they will even give in on the abortion issue, but that is not verifed.

Read my sig line, and you will see my feelings.

Sorry, I forgot sig lines are disabled. Here is the quote from Dean's book.
"when you trade your values for the hope of winning, you
end up losing and having no values....so you keep losing." Howard Dean
2004

[TeacherCreature]

59. I think this is a terrific idea.

And the fact that it scares some of the people who helped lead us to this tragic defeat only convinces me that this is so.

[LSdemocrat]

60. I like Dean, but we need someone with MEDIA SAVVY

Unfortunately, Dean just doesn't have it.

[DFLforever]

62. He's media savvy now

He learned the hard way.

No one from the party has been better than Dean on TV... he's bright and clear.

[lojasmo]

61. Absolutely.

Dean could get the job done. If he's not offered the job, we will get the job done through DFA.

[Wat_Tyler]

63. The man can fight.

That gets my vote.

[fishwax]

65. I love the idea

but then I loved the idea of him as president too.

[Bread and Circus]

66. Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We should start a Draft Dean movement for something
like this. If so, I am in for some $$$

[theboss]

69. I've heard worse ideas

But I'm not even sure what the role of the modern party chair is. All the recent ones have just been fundraisers. Dean obviously has a knack for fundraising, but I don't know if it is on the scale necessary for DNC chair.

[Joefess]

70. Great Idea!

[tarheel_voter]

72. Dean Dean Dean !!!

The first thing he can do is stop the raising of the debt ceiling. Its pay as you go... we supported pay as you go when Kerry said it... we still support it.

[phish420]

73. 100% support here for that idea. nt

[THUNDER HANDS]

79. personally, I'd prefer a southerner

but Dean will do if no viable southerner is available.

How about Al Gore?

[curse10]

86. No way.

n/t

[oasis]

89. Not the best choice.

[WI_DEM]

90. Absolutely

He would fire up the party, fire up the base and raise a ton of money--and keep Bush's feet to the fire.