Raging Against the Machines--I Need Your Help to Compile Resources!!!!

[Ladyhawk]

Dear Friends,

Yesterday, we had our "discussions" blaming everything under the sun for the loss of this election. They were flame wars, actually. And I participated until I realized what was happening. We were so angry we needed something to blame, something on which to focus our anger. Because we're a diverse group, we focused our anger on--well--practically anything. We'll be over the anger toward each other in a few days, but we still need to focus that anger somewhere.

I have come to believe that we did everything right and that this election was stolen from us.

Starting today, I'm going to stop speculating about how we could do better and start focusing on the real issue: black box voting. I followed the information concerning DIEBOLD, Sequoia and some of the other companies since I first came to DU and just shrugged, thinking, "There's nothing I can do about that shit. Let Bev Harris handle it."

I was wrong.

I gave my money and time to the wrong flank of the war: John Kerry and MoveOn.

I was wrong.

I often listened to a little rap ditty called, "ABB." The rapper says, "We got the numbers, but they got the voting machines." How did that truism escape my narrow vision? Why didn't I donate to BBV or work harder at getting these machines declared illegal??? Why?

I was wrong.

Maybe a part of me still believed that no one could steal an election with voting machines, that we had the numbers and they couldn't fuck with them.

I was wrong.

Let this thread become our resource page to rage against the machines, to focus our anger where it belongs.

http://www.Nov3.us
http://www.gregpalast.com
http://www.blackboxvoting.org

I have gone to the White Rose Society and downloaded Mike Malloy's November 3rd radio program. I have downloaded the movie, VoterGate.

I plan to make these tools available to my local Democratic Party. Today I burn CDs. I urge you to do the same in your local precincts. We need to know our enemy before we can figure out how to destroy him.

Please, add more resources in your responses below and let us keep this thread kicked!

(Maybe if enough agree, we can make this a sticky and keep adding the information to this post so people don't have to search the entire thread.)

[Ladyhawk]

1. I'm shamelessly kicking this because I think it is important. nt

[Ladyhawk]

2. Come on, give me hope, give me strength.

I know someone out there has more information than this and could post it.

[Generator]

3. I'm with you!

If the votes don't matter, why vote? It's the simplest equation possible.

If our votes don't exist, we don't exist. It's even AS important as winning,because people must believe their vote counts for Democracy to continue.

[Ladyhawk]

4. Thank you, Generator!

Do you know of any more good resources that address this issue?

I'm looking to put all the information in one spot. I want to put together a black box voting packet that includes movies, links, proof and where to send money or donate time.

Please, please, please people!

If you've uncovered something funky, post or re-post it here. I'm no investigative journalist, but some of you are. Copy and paste is easy! :)

[Generator]

10. You have all the main sources listed that I know of

I want to say that I also didn't want to believe any of it when I started reading it here. Only now am I seeing reality not match reality.

Here's an article about Bev Harris from a few months ago:

http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0410/040310_news_blackbox.php

A major profile is due in Vanity Fair, and her cell phone rings constantly with requests for interviews and documentation, from TV stations and newspapers around the country. Democratic presidential candidates John Edwards, Howard Dean, and Dennis Kucinich all mentioned concerns about electronic voting during this year's campaign. Former first lady and current U.S. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., and U.S. Rep. Rush Holt, D-N.J., are sponsoring national legislation responding to the issues raised by Harris and her allies.

[Ladyhawk]

13. Thank you!

I'm going to go lie down. Yesterday was hell...probably for many of us.

I hope others will help.

[Q3JR4]

5. I'm surprised that we haven't done more of this.

People just seem to be willing to roll over and take it, but that's not my bag. Anyways, I got your back.

:kick:

[Ladyhawk]

6. Thanks.

It sometimes takes people more than a day. Yesterday, I was a fucking mess, but Mike Malloy really got to me.

This is where I want to throw my weight.

I was going to burn CDs today, but I decided to see what kind of information could be compiled in this thread.

I've lost the CNN exit poll change, among other things and would like it re-posted here.

I want to put together a CD with mp3's, mpeg's and a simple webpage with information and clickable sites. I want to pass this around, tell everyone: make copies!!!!

[Ladyhawk]

7. From TruthisAll

I'm copying this over to my thread. I hope you don't mind.



To believe that Bush won the election, you must also believe:

1- That the exit polls were WRONG...

2- That Zogby's 5pm election day calls for Kerry winning OH, FL were WRONG. He was exactly RIGHT in his 2000 final poll.

3- That Harris last minute polling for Kerry was WRONG. He was exactly RIGHT in his 2000 final poll.

4- The Incumbent Rule I (that undecideds break for the challenger)was WRONG.

5- The 50% Rule was WRONG (that an incumbent doesn't do better than his final polling)

6- The Approval Rating Rule was WRONG (that an incumbent with less than 50% approval will most likely lose the election)

7- That Greg Palast was WRONG when he said that even before the election, 1 million votes were stolen from Kerry. He was the ONLY reporter to break the fact that 90,000 Florida blacks were disnfranchised in 2000.

8- That it was just a COINCIDENCE that the exit polls were CORRECT where there WAS a PAPER TRAIL and INCORRECT (+5% for Bush) where there was NO PAPER TRAIL.

9- That the surge in new young voters had NO positive effect for Kerry.

10- That Bush BEAT 99-1 mathematical odds in winning the election.

11- That Kerry did WORSE than Gore agains an opponent who LOST the support of SCORES of Republican newspapers who were for Bush in 2000.

12- That Bush did better than an 18 national poll average which showed him tied with Kerry at 47. In other words, Bush got 80% of the undecided vote to end up with a 51-48 majority - when ALL professional pollsters agree that the undecided vote ALWAYS goes to the challenger.

13- That Voting machines made by Republicans with no paper trail and with no software publication, which have been proven by thousands of computer scientists to be vulnerable in scores of ways, were NOT tampered with in this election.

[Ladyhawk]

8. From AntiWarWarrior

Again, I hope you don't mind my posting this here:


Link: http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won_.php

"I know you don't want to hear it. You can't face one more hung chad. But I don't have a choice. As a journalist examining that messy sausage called American democracy, it's my job to tell you who got the most votes in the deciding states. Tuesday, in Ohio and New Mexico, it was John Kerry."

snip

"So what's going on here? Answer: the exit polls are accurate. Pollsters ask, "Who did you vote for?" Unfortunately, they don't ask the crucial, question, "Was your vote counted?" The voters don't know."


"Here's why. Although the exit polls show that most voters in Ohio punched cards for Kerry-Edwards, thousands of these votes were simply not recorded. This was predictable and it was predicted. "

snip

"And not all votes spoil equally. Most of those votes, say every official report, come from African-American and minority precincts.

We saw this in Florida in 2000. Exit polls showed Gore with a plurality of at least 50,000, but it didn't match the official count. That's because the official, Secretary of State Katherine Harris, excluded 179,855 spoiled votes. In Florida, as in Ohio, most of these votes lost were cast on punch cards where the hole wasn't punched through completely—leaving a 'hanging chad,'—or was punched extra times. Whose cards were discarded? Expert statisticians investigating spoilage for the government calculated that 54 percent of the ballots thrown in the dumpster were cast by black folks. (To read the report from the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, click here .)"

They didn't even bother being original this time - same crap they pulled in Florida last time around.

[Ladyhawk]

9. What I want are the most salient points, I guess.

A rehash of what happened in Georgia in 2002 would help, as would the exact letter from the Ohio DIEBOLD guy who said he would "deliver" Ohio's electoral votes to Bush in 2004.

If someone has them handy, please post. If not, I can Google later.

[Generator]

11. Horses mouth: Diebold's own website

http://www.diebold.com/whatsnews/inthenews/executive.htm

An Ohio voting-machine executive pummeled with national criticism for his close ties to the Bush re-election campaign said yesterday he wants to make amends.

Walden O'Dell, chief executive of North Canton-based Diebold Inc., confirmed in an interview with Plain Dealer editors that he has been a top fund-raiser for the Republican president, but said he intends to lower his political profile and "try to be more sensitive" in light of the national criticism he has faced.



The company is based in OHIO! He is the CEO.

[Ladyhawk]

12. Thank you! nt

[DoYouEverWonder]

I don't know what's going on around here

But it sure seems like nobody's home the last two days. I've also started a couple of call to action type threads only to get silence back.

I don't know about you, but I need to do something in response to this madness.

However, I do disagree that BBV is what we should focus on. Screw the machines we may never have another election anyway. Screw the Democratic party, they have failed us. Screw the politicians, they have abandoned us.

It is left to us. The ones who are most aware, the ones who can't turn it off and ignore the madness, to at least try to do something. But fighting the machines isn't going to do much good I'm afraid.

This battle must be fought on a different level. We no longer live in a two party democracy. We live in a world that is fundie vs realist. Freeper vs liberal. The only way out of this is to find a way to show the Kool-aide drinkers the truth about their leaders. We need to call the fundies on their hypocrisies. How can someone be pro-life and pro-war? How can someone claim to follow Jesus, when they follow Bush?

So forget about elections, unless there is some miracle between now and the electoral college? It's time to fight fire with fire has they say.

PBWY
DYEW

PS: When I just ran spell check, I misspelled politicians and it changed it to pollutions. How appropriate.

[Ladyhawk]

16. Thanks for the kick.

I think what I mentioned in the post that began this thread is what's happening to people: They need someone to blame. It will take some people longer than others to get over the blame-game.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I think that Republicans need at least a semblance of elections to hold power. I could be wrong, but this is where I'm starting. It's the only thing that is making sense to me right now.

You aren't going to convince fundies that their leaders are hypocrites. I used to be a fundy. I know how fundies "think." They can compartmentalize information in different areas of their awareness and totally avoid cognitive dissonance. Very few will be swayed by your arguments. Very few stop drinking the Kool-Aide. I'm the only one I know who graduated from a fundamentalist school and ended up rejecting religion.

There are two books that are dear to my heart because of my experience:
1. Losing Faith in Faith by Dan Barker. This is a treasure trove of arguments against fundamentalism. However, I've had zero luck getting any fundy to listen to me.

2. Leaving the Fold by Marlene Winell. One reason fundies won't listen to reason is that they are terribly afraid of what will happen to them without their world view firmly in place. There are very real consequences. I lost all my friends and my place in the family, pretty much. I'm a pariah, an outcast. Dealing with the fallout is of paramount importance. If you pull the rug out from under a fundy, someone had better be there to catch him because God certainly will not be.

I've always found this article interesting, too: Ending Biblical Brainwash.

As an ex-fundy, I've never deconverted anyone. Dan Barker managed to de-convert his parents, but other ex-fundies I've met on the Internet have all become outcasts. The fundies you deal with will become outcasts, too. Deep down they know their acceptance hinges on their beliefs. Christian love is not unconditional. It's the most conditional love in our society, in my humble opinion.

I went through hell. I doubt most fundies have the intellectual integrity to really challenge their beliefs.

If I had my druthers, our new war would be a two-pronged attack on black box voting and the media. Right now, BBV seems more important, so I'm going with that.

If someone doesn't give me more information, I will simply make do with what I have, look up a few things I remember reading and Keep It Simple, Stupid.

If you feel strongly that your way is the way to go, maybe you can start burning CDs like crazy, pass them out to everyone.

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. The beast is huge

and we need to attack from as many different angles that we can.

If this is your calling, bravo. I will support you in any way I can.

My calling seems to be in a more spiritual direction right now. I don't only want to save your vote, I want to save your soul, because without our souls, we are nothing more than zombies. My intent is not to turn anyone away from Jesus, but to show people that christ is within them, not outside of them. I have no need for churches or religious organizations, it is extremely unlikely that you will find god there.

If people rejected you for your beliefs then they didn't understand to begin with. However, to win this country back we need to save these people from themselves. The fundie movement reminds me of Jonestown and there are a few million people in this country in serious need of deprogramming.

You take the boxes and I'll take the brains. I want to show people that you can't follow Jesus and still follow Bush. Hopefully in the end we will both survive to find a better world for all of us.

PBWY
DYEW

[DoYouEverWonder]

36. To hell with my crazy ideas about saving hearts and minds right now

we need to save the votes. I must have been hung over this AM and I don't even drink.

At the moment it seems you are on the right track. There is more and more information coming to light that we may be able to prove fraud by the repugs in this election.

Looks like we have until Dec 13 when the Electoral College votes to find as much proof as we can that this thing was rigged.

Time to go dig in the dirt and crunch some numbers.

Thank you for your kindness and patience with me earlier. My brain is still reeling from all that has happened in the last couple of days.

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. Dupe

n/t

[inmania]

15. kick

[Ladyhawk]

17. Thanks for the kick, inmania.

Now I really am going to lie down for awhile. :)

[leftofthedial]

19. Colorado organization and resources

CO link

[Ladyhawk]

20. Symbolman's Flash

http://www.takebackthemedia.com/voterevolution.html

[bear425]

21. Dear Ladyhawk, I agree about BBV

That is where we need to focus. I went into our Dem HQ today to clean out the office (very sad event) and was talking to other volunteers.

The first thing our group leader said was something like, "We'll keep going and work hard on the next election!" I said, "What's the point if we'll be voting on the BBV? We'll never win an election again!" Especially, now that they know they can get away with stealing an election, they will want to expand their use next election.

Some of the volunteers agreed with me about fighting the BBV. Some just wanted to roll over. I will not roll over. Thank you for your passion and effort; I will be happy to help in any way I can.

[MoonRiver]

22. Many of us have been screaming about this for years.

Our dimwitted Democratic leaders, however, chose to ignore the problem. Now, we are reaping the results of such stupidity. I will NEVER donate to the DNC again, unless and until they support progressive electoral reform. Instead, my money will go to my true love, animal rights. I sacrificed animals, to NO FUCKING AVAIL, for 4 years in order to support the Dem Party. But nobody in the DunceNationalCommittee cared enough to make sure the fucking voting machines were not rigged for *, and/or block their use through legal action that should have started in 2001. So now I say FUCK YOU DNC.

[sherilocks]

23. In general I agree with you

But Congressman Robert Wexler in south Florida has been opposing paperless voting machines in court now for months, with little progress.

[Ladyhawk]

26. It's my fault, too, thinking someone else would take care of it.

I thought contributing to the DNC and MoveOn and a few others would be enough.

Shame on me. :(

[MoonRiver]

30. Shame on both of us, Ladyhawk. I've done everything I can, and it's shit.

Well, maybe, as you implied, I should have give every red cent to bbv.com. Maybe if we'd all done that SOMETHING would have happened to prevent this catastrophe. :cry:

[Ladyhawk]

33. It's no good to feel guilty for too long, saywhat.

Everyone here is in meltdown mode in one form or another. I cried again, too. :cry:

I've been trying to make my best friend understand the gravity of what has happened and he just doesn't get it. That's one reason I'm putting all of this together. When it's together, I can hand a CD to someone and they have a starting point.

I should have given money to BBV, too. I gave more than I could afford to the Dems and I feel...abandoned? Let down?

My mind was focused on the wrong enemies.

So, don't feel guilty for too long, saywhat. We all missed it. Maybe there's still a chance to fix it.

[MoonRiver]

38. Thanks Ladyhawk. No matter what folks like you on DU have saved my

sanity over the last 4 years. I still can't stay away from this place, although I probably will rarely post. :pals:

[Ladyhawk]

41. Big hugs to you, saywhat.

We open another front on the war, now. (First I had to yell at DU homophobes...hehe.) But now, we war against the machines.

Take care of yourself. If we blame ourselves for too long, we will get nothing done.

[Cinletharwi]

24. Rage Against the Corporation

They are pulling all the strings, they own the media and now the ballot machines, but effectively control the entire government.

The rise of fundamentalism in government is not the cause, it is a symptom of a larger cancer that is Corporate America. It's bigger than any one company such as Diebold.


We have no power to change it from within government, and even if we did we would not succeed because they own it, the politicians we choose from, and everything we see, hear, and read offline.

The only thing they care about is your dollars, so vote with them - the only Democratic votes they will ever count again.

[Ladyhawk]

35. I've been boycotting everything for months.

Thank you for this link. I think I might need cable TV to keep from going insane, though. I don't mean the news or stupid reality shows. I mean Discovery, Animal Planet, The Learning Channel, etc.

The four walls and just me...it's frightening. My parrots help. The computer helps. Books help. But my counselor is encouraging me to get TV (don't have any now). Because of this election, I'm losing it again and I need to see my beautiful wildlife on television if nowhere else. :(

I'm alone in my apartment. I'm alone in my religio-political opinions. The TV could be a friend.

I don't see fundamentalism as a part of corporate America. At best it is an uneasy truce between religious extremists and corporatists. I'm hoping a wedge can be driven between the two. Maybe I'm nuts.

My family represents a microcosm of right-wing America. My mother is the fundamentalist; my brother the greedy would-be corporatist. What my mother doesn't know is that my brother is an atheist. What my brother doesn't know is that my mother harbored a fugitive on the lamb. She says it was a "Christian" gesture, but I know better. She was attracted to him. She put herself and me in danger by doing this because there were people gunning for this man. On a trip back to LA he got shot seven times and lived through it.

Family secrets. Skeletons in the closet. And I know the truth. Dare I shove a wedge between the fundy and the corporatist?

[Ladyhawk]

25. Note to self...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1321133

[robbedvoter]

27. As the image was posted in this important thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=11874&mesg_id=17986&page=
Faun Otter's research and Pandora's sox' graph

[robbedvoter]

28. Crispin Miller addresses the question that was bothering me:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/11/04/election_reactions/
index1.html

Mark Crispin Miller is a media critic, professor of communications at
New York University, and author, most recently, of "Cruel and Unusual:
Bush/Cheney's New World Order."
First of all, this election was definitely rigged. I have no doubt
about it. It's a statistical impossibility that Bush got 8 million more
votes than he got last time. In 2000, he got 15 million votes from
right-wing Christians, and there are approximately 19 million of them
in the country. They were eager to get the other 4 million. That was
pretty much Karl Rove's strategy to get Bush elected.

[shelley806]

29. Thanks for the post; please see other DU posts on this subject:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x11874

Exit polls analysis versus reported vote count

Faun Otter



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x19390


George Bush's 8 Million New Votes Found – STATISTICAL ANALYSIS

althecat

[MagickMuffin]

31. Salon wrote about the hearings held in March

We need to hold our Representatives feet to the fire on this the most important issue facing our democracy. Which is the fundamental right for every vote to be counted.
The only way to protect that "RIGHT" is a constitutional amendment requiring paper trail audits!!!


May 6, 2004  |  WASHINGTON (AP) -- -- Scientists told a federal panel Wednesday that electronic voting isn't completely reliable and suggested a backup paper system might be the only way to avoid another disputed presidential election in November.

But the commission's chairman said he didn't expect the bipartisan panel would issue national standards requiring paper receipts when it makes preliminary recommendations next week, followed by more detailed guidelines next month.

"We will not decide on what machines people will buy," said Republican DeForest B. Soaries Jr., chairman of the newly created U.S. Election Assistance Commission, saying it wasn't the panel's role to tell states what to do. "We will say, if California wants to have a backup paper system, what national standards it should follow."

At least 20 states are considering legislation to require a paper record of every vote cast after rushing to get ATM-like voting machines to replace paper ballots after Florida's fiasco with hanging chads in the 2000 presidential election. About 50 million people, or 29 percent of voters, are expected to vote electronically.

[choicevoice]

32. For the next election why not just REFUSE TO USE

Find out what is used in your polling place and if it is an electronic voting machine with no paper trail or no recount possibilities then REFUSE TO USE it.

Let them count 49 million absentee ballots.

[Ladyhawk]

37. I believe that absentee ballots are only counted if the election is...

...within a certain percentage.

This may be why we lost Florida, according to a poster I read yesterday. The poster blamed MoveOn's recommendation of using only absentee ballots for the loss of Florida. The absentee ballots in Florida will not be counted...I don't think.

Can someone clear up this issue?

[Ladyhawk]

34. Voter fraud note to self

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2596312

[Ladyhawk]

39. More stuff: note to self

Other organizations need funding as well to continue their efforts on this ever important topic.

http://www.votersunite.org

http://www.openvotingconsortium.org

http://www.verifiedvoting.org

and all the other voting advocacy groups that exist.

These groups have all played an important part in the voting issue and must not be neglected. Now is more important than ever to allow these groups to continue their work.

[GreenPartyVoter]

40. Ladyhawk, I have a few links to the major resources on my site

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[Ladyhawk]

42. Big thanks, GreenPartyVoter.

I toyed with the idea of switching to the Greens, but then I couldn't vote in the primaries.

Wait a minute. My guy had already lost the primaries by the time I got a chance to vote, so what difference does it make????

[GreenPartyVoter]

43. The Dems need instant runoff voting in the primaries in a bad way

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[Ladyhawk]

44. The whole system is a mess. nt

[Karenina]

45. And the machines were

R-I-G-G-E-D.

[hertopos]

46. Thank you for more links

I came to the same conclusion a bit earlier and I already donated
$50 to bbv.org. I also read in other thread that someone is attacking Votergate website!!

It's war, mothers and daughters.

Hertopos

[Ladyhawk]

47. Kick!

[sarahlee]

48. Dennis tried to warn people

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/e_voting.php

[LibertyorDeath]

49. Have you heard of this? TruVote machine

Of course the inventor already came to an untimely death but his technology lives on.
We have to be able to offer a viable alternative to Diebold ES&S Sequioa
this is it IMO
If States currently controlled by Dem's bought this system over the others it would put Pressure on the States using Diebold ES&S Sequioa to provide Proof of your Vote.


http://civilliberty.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/3/2004/853

Gibbs’ TruVote machine is a marvel. After voters touch the screen, a paper ballot prints out under plexiglass and once the voter compares it to his actual vote and approves it, the ballot drops into a lockbox and is issued a numbered receipt. The voter’s receipt allows the track his particular vote to make sure that it was transferred from the polling place to the election tabulation center.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

[SoCalDemocrat]

50. TruVote is amazing

It should be used in 100% of all elections.

[StrongbadTehAwesome]

51. for those in this thread interested in corporate boycotting

I bring word of the newly launched Progressive Pages, created thanks to the work of DU'ers Sapphocrat, fudgestripedcookays, and others:

http://www.globalblogs.com/progressivepages/index.html

The DU thread about it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

The site needs your input!

[ellie]

52. We should collect

money and offer a reward for information leading to a conviction for those involved in tampering with the vote. Repukes love money, right? How could they resist? That and the fact that they would sell their own mothers down the river, makes this a no-lose proposition.

The logistics would have to be worked out, like opening an account for the money, etc.

I think it would work.