No more Catholics for President

[Another Bill C.]

John Kerry was, hopefully, the last Roman Catholic to be nominated for President of the United States.

Alfred E. Smith ran for president in 1928 as the Democratic nominee. He was the first Roman Catholic to run for that office. His defeat was in large part due to fears by non-Catholics that, as president, he would be taking his marching orders from the Pope. It appears now that those fears were well founded.

The Roman Catholic church has a law called canon 915. "Canon 915 calls for withholding Communion from those who persistently, obstinately, and publicly deviate from Church teaching on matters of great moral gravity." (http://www.catholicexchange.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=1&art_id=25280) "The doctrine of the Church is that Holy Communion is morally necessary for salvation...." (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07402a.htm) Thus, a believing Catholic who is denied Communion, is in jeopardy of losing salvation.

"Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, recently issued a Statement of Six Principles which constitutes an authoritative interpretation of the application of Canon 915 to the Catholic political official. Principles 2 and 3 state that abortion and euthanasia have a greater moral weight than other serious moral issues including ones that involve the taking of human life such as the death penalty and the application of just war theory." (http://www.avemarialaw.edu/news/events/conferences/CanLaw-Comm.pdf) In this interpretation of canon 915, electively causing the deaths of 100,000 Iraqi civilians is not a matter of great moral gravity, nor is the elective application of the death penalty.

In the 2004 election, great effort was expended in publicizing the penalties of canon 915 as they applied to John Kerry. An Internet search on "canon 915" brings up dozens of sites condemning Kerry for his acceptance of the current legal status of abortion. Full-page newspaper ads and many clerics within the church called Catholics' attention to this matter. Had the nominee not been a Catholic, the opposition to Kerry's election would have been confined to the conventional opposing elements of the political process.

Nomination of a Catholic for president by the Republican party is a less than remote possibility and nomination of a Catholic by the Democrats requires an according view of the Democratic platform in which a pro-choice plank is a standard element. The nomination process within the Democratic party should raise the issue of the Vatican's influence on a Catholic in the White House.

[tritsofme]

1. Paging John Fitzgerald Kennedy

WTF kind of shit is this?

[mmonk]

2. Do you prefer

protestants such as the one in office?

[AngryOldDem]

14. A Catholic can and should run...

But I think it's true that whatever ground Catholic politicians may have made in the wake of Kennedy's presidency has been greatly undone by the actions of some right-wing bishops and conservative Catholics this year. Both groups have more or less said a Catholic politician's first obligation is indeed to the Church, not to the government, which as I'm sure you know was the biggest concern among mainstream voters both with Smith and JFK.

Ads upon ads in Catholic publications painted John Kerry as unfit both as a Catholic and as a president, solely because of his stated commitment to uphold the law (Roe v. Wade), and his position on civil rights (recognition of civil unions). He has also come under attack for wanting to keep his faith life private -- as in not imposing his particular set of values on others who may not share them. Many of us in-the-pew Catholics feel the same way, and to some degree many of us have also felt the chill.

The sad irony to all this is, there are just as many Republican Catholic politicians who are in violation of Church teaching as Kerry supposedly is. Two quick examples: Pro-choice Arnold and stem cell research. Rudy living with his mistress in Gracie Mansion while he was still married.

Not to mention all the Catholic Social Teaching rules that Bush, the darling of "pro-life" Catholics, has broken during the past four years (and he has broken ALL of them).

As a Catholic this blatant hypocrisy drives me nuts.

ON EDIT: So I do not get flamed: I think the next Catholic nominee for president can learn a lot from this experience, as well as middle-of-the-road Catholics. We both need to find our voices and stand up to what is in effect a very small, but vocal, part of the Church.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

3. Why narrow the field at all?

What a dumb supposition that we should disqualify ANYONE for such a trivial reason.

[Tweed]

4. WOW, as a Catholic, FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!1

[RetroLounge]

29. I agree with you

as a Non-Catholic, what he said...

RL

[TeacherCreature]

5. This is utter nonsense and you know it.

Why are you posting this crap here?

[noahmijo]

6. No more radicals of ANY religion for president

How about that instead of jumping to anti-Catholic bigotry?

[high density]

12. How was John Kerry a radical Catholic??

The only religious radical I see is George Bush.

[tjdee]

7. Next, are we going to insult the unions?

Today I've seen a thread knocking EVERY FUCKING PART of the Democratic Party, and frankly I'm getting sick of it, even if this IS the fighting and acrimony board!

We're not supposed to be fighting EACH OTHER!

Oh for fuck's sake.

[LuminousX]

8. No.

As long as the person is an American first and Catholic second, they can be my President - I say as a complete heathen.

[manic expression]

9. We shouldn't discriminate

between any religion when choosing any candidates.

[Freddie Stubbs]

10. Regarding Al Smith

Woodrow Wilson was the ONLY Democrat elected in the 20th Century before the Great Depression. And Wilson winning the first time was only because the Republicans split their votes between President Taft and former President Roosevelt. The country was overwealming Republican before the Depression. There just weren't many Democrats elected in the period from the Civil War to the Great Depression.

[KamaAina]

11. The "Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith"

is the remnants of what used to be known as the Inquisition.

"Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, recently issued a Statement of Six Principles which constitutes an authoritative interpretation of the application of Canon 915 to the Catholic political official.

No one outside the Vatican takes this seriously. Certainly John Kerry does not. Tinfoil hats off, please. :tinfoilhat:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

13. GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!

[jdonaldball]

15. This is as bad as "no more Jews for President"

You know, dual loyalities to Zion and America and all that.
Disgusting thread.

[WI_DEM]

16. Why stop there? lets make sure no jews, blacks, latinos, women,

muslims, ect are not nominated for president!! JFK would roll in his grave.

[Tweed]

17. Yes we don't want the POPE to be on speed dial!!!!!!!!

[AngryOldDem]

25. People believed Kerry would ban the Bible

It isn't much of a stretch that these morons would also believe that there is a hotline to the Vatican in the Oval Office.

While I'm not vouching for the validity of what the original poster wrote, I do believe the Church has made it harder for SOME of its Catholic politicians -- especially those who vow to do their jobs and represent ALL of their constituents.

Hence the hypocrisy.

[Tweed]

28. Work with us to change that, here's a website

Do you know Call to Action? It's a liberal group of Catholics centered in Chicago, but they have people from all around the country. www.cta-usa.org It's a great group. I suggest looking into it.

[CBGLuthier]

18. Kerry wasn't nominated

"John Kerry was, hopefully, the last Roman Catholic to be nominated for President of the United States."

He was the candidate.

Your entire BS article starts with an out-and-out error.

Oh, and for the record, I am an atheist was not raised catholic but still think this is disgusting and reminds me of the right wing not the left.

[arewenotdemo]

19. Good point

When the Church of pedophilic priests and bishops will tar one of their own (good) men, it makes no sense to nominate one. Kerry lost the Catholic vote to Bush 52/47. Of course, as a former Catholic I have no love lost for the Church, and would suggest all good men and women take their faiths to a less Nazi-like institution.

[Goldmund]

20. And the Redskins lied!

[Amaya]

21. Who gives a flying fuck? Guess what?

I DON'T.

[progdonkey]

22. It's not because he was Catholic...

It's because he was a Democrat!

Had he been a Methodist, they would have found some obscure teaching that even all Republicans don't follow to call him on.

Had he been a Baptist, they would have found some obscure teaching that even all Republicans don't follow to call him on.

You get my point.

In regards to the "less than remote" possibility of a Catholic running on the Republican ticket, try these out for starters.: Schwarzenegger (providing amendment of course) and Giuliani. Hell, there are people saying they want both in 2008.

[sonicx]

23. while we're at it, lets slash muslims, jews, and atheists off the list too

amerikkka has spoken....

protestants only.

[BonjourUSA]

24. What a treason !!

The Fathers of your constitution thought up the separation of churchES and state concept, and this concept has been one of the foundations of our French constitution some years later.

American people seem to forget it today.

[peacefreak]

26. I was told today that Kerry isn't Catholic

he is Jewish & that's why people didn't vote for him. Yeah, fucked up.
Just another reason to hate someone. People, why can't we just get along?

[Another Bill C.]

27. WTF seems to be the best debating point

most people have here.
If you want to do the research:
Google "canon 915" and check out the sites.

Read the papers submitted as part of the conference "Public Witness/Public Scandal" September 16, 2004 at http://www.avemarialaw.edu/news/Events/Events_pwps.cfm
This was a conference of the leading legal scholars of the Catholic Church which was broadcast on the Catholic cable channel EWTN.

Check out the full page newspaper ads directed at Catholics.

Note that abortion became legal 10 years after JFK's death and was not a part of Democratic platform. JFK was given a pass on some other transgressions because the church was entering a brief period of liberalization at that time.

"Smith lost his bid for the presidency, partly because of anti-Catholic sentiment...." http://www.nps.gov/elro/glossary/smith-al.htm

The only way a Catholic could minimize a concerted effort within the Catholic church to defeat him/her would be to be absolutely silent on the abortion issue. I don't believe the American press would allow this to happen.