Cute tin hat theories that didnt happen

[Mick Knox]

- Bin Laden wasnt "on ice" and exposed just before the election.

- Chimpy didnt declare marshal law and cancel the election.

- there was no october suprise at all.

- The public didnt rush into the streets if shrubby won.

- No one is being rounded up and put into camps, ashcroft is even RESIGNING. (nor will they be)

The list goes on..

despite being wrong 99.99% of the time (except when accidently correct), now the tin hats have a new one..

The machines stole the election!

The machines werent used in ohio you say?

Well lets not let facts like that get in the way of cool theories even though tin hats are NEVER correct.

Lame

Cool excuse to wallow - but lame.

[ibegurpard]

1. You may be right

But there is enough evidence of the dubiousness of auditless voting software to be concerned about it... even if it wasn't the factor.

[The Doctor.]

67. There is quite a bit of suspicious info indeed...

A Lot of predictions were far-flung-and-fetched, but that someone might suggest the abandonment of all concerns due to the failure of a few unlikely projections is suspect in itself.


"Of course it can't happen because no one would get away with it, so it must not have happened."

I knew a fellow way back in the eighties who used a really neat ploy to shoplift.

He would walk into a Sears or other large store and go to electronics.
He would load what they called a 'Ghetto Blaster' (large portable stereo) with batteries and walk around the store for an hour or so with the merchandise on his shoulder. (That was the fad then - walking around with a stereo on one's shoulder.)
After a shift change at the store, he would casually leave with the big stereo on his shoulder.
No one questioned or stopped him - after all, no one would be foolish enough to shoplift in plain sight.

So he must not have been shoplifting.

He made a few hundred dollars a week doing this for nearly a month.

Eventually, the stores started to catch on, but he got away with it for a while by using people's logic against them.

Eventually, everyone will catch on.

"Don't let anyone tell you you're not seeing what you're seeing" - Juan Carlos Santana C.S.C.S.

-Keep that in mind people.

[Dork]

128. I love the voting machines theory

If they're going to steal an election, they don't need diabolical machines of the future to do it. Not that they need to steal an election anymore because the American people appear to love Bush and hate gay marriage etc. etc. etc.

[kikiek]

138. Hahaha..that is funny. The people love Bush..even the ones who

voted for him don't! They're poorly informed scared little rats.

[The Doctor.]

147. Silly Dork, this IS the future and any half-brained moran knows...

those machines are inscrutable.

[kikiek]

136. There was good reason to believe there would be given the history

of Rove and company. It isn't like this party hasn't pulled it off before and the thought was pulled out of the air.

[Freddie Stubbs]

2. There was no electronic voting in Ohio?

Seriously? Because I have not seen that anywhere on DU today!

[jdj]

15. it looks like a mix of punch card and e-voting, it varies by

county.

http://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/map.php?topic_string=5std&state=ohio&county=Auglaize

just click on the map for the county and it comes up. I am seeing E.S. & S. alot here, this is one of the companies owned by the Urosevich brothers that Bev Harris talked about intitally, I think

[leftofthedial]

39. I read that 30% of the voting in Ohio was e-voting

nt

[jdj]

41. it's a strawman anyway, since no one asserted the

e-voting problem was specific to Ohio. The uncounted ballots and vote suppression in Ohio are an issue, however.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. I'm Not A Big Tin Hat Guy Myself...

I'll take Occam's Razor over a Tin Hat any day...


I hope being a liberal and a debunker of tin hat theories aren't mutually exclusive....

[found object]

165. above is a list of predictions, not conspiracy theories. (nt)

.

[Lindacooks]

4. The Twin Cities is still standing; all that Vreeland was a bunch of crap.

After all the threads about doom and gloom and Minneapolis/St. Paul being nuked, armories being emptied, etc., NOTHING HAPPENED.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. the guy who was saying that was a freeper infiltrator -seventhson

nt

[sangh0]

23. No, it was god-bush_n_cheney

and a number of others. I have the links to prove it.

[Minstrel Boy]

30. now you're leaping to seventhson's defense?

seventhson was the one who said we should "shout it from the rooftops."

g_b_n_c suspected from the start it could be disinformation meant to discredit, because it was passed by Vreeland only to himself and another bbv activist. But he also thought there was an outside chance it could be genuine, and so decided to share the warning.

Now come on, respond with your poisonous half truths. But I won't be dancing around with you on this again.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jdj]

51. how do you keep track of everyone?

I am not recognizing many names today, even though there are such high post counts.

[sangh0]

55. I organize them by level of insanity

It helps to be organized

[jdj]

62. LOL

I might try that, because I am finding today and yesterday the most confusing days here ever.

[Peak_Oil]

132. You got a file on me yet?

Tinfoil's cheap, I loaded up at Costco this weekend. There's been voting fraud in elections going back to Tammany Hall, and probably much further back than that. You really think there was NO bullshit going on this time?

[sangh0]

149. Of course there was bullshit going on this time

It goes on EVERY time!!

When were you born? Yesterday?

[mountainvue]

152. I noticed that

as well.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

131. I'm Confused

Didn't seventhson expose himself and call DUer faggots and aids addled cocksuckers?

what a mean son of a bitch he was...

if i saw that freeper on the street he'd be pulling my thirteen inch foot out of his ass though I'm sure he'd get off on the sensation..

[sangh0]

150. Yes, seventhson is a freeper

but GBNC is not. GBNC started a rumor about a nuke attack on the Twin Cities, and seventhson helped him promote it in order to be disruptive and scare the little libruls.

GBNC isn't a freeper. He's just a tool

[BeHereNow]

162. FUCK YOU and then some.

You have twisted EVERY fucking word
thjat GBnC and I said.
Now PISS OFF and stop attacking us.

[BeHereNow]

166. THANK YOU MB!

I am sick and tired of Sangh0 (emphasis on 'h0)
dragging GB&C and me through the mud on this.
I am wondering just WHAT is up with the mods for allowing it.
The poster has TWISTED the facts repeatedly and made accusations
and character assasinations time and again around this topic.
I am wondering if the poster is not working in tandem with
a certain someone who is no longer here?
Hmmm?
bhn

[The Doctor.]

34. Not yet......... nt

[Awsi Dooger]

5. I said all along betting against cynical theories was my dream wager

Much easier than trying to figure out which guy would receive 270+ electoral votes.

You left out at least two:

* Major terrorist attack prior to the election

* Bush will bail out of one or all of the debates

We lost on preference, narrowly. Denying that with pathetic make believe, no-fair excuses will only insure it's more likely to happen again.

Ohio was a mess and a legit issue of a stupid local law that the GOP abused. Otherwise, in looking at the country as a whole we simply got beat.

[jdj]

6. what do you care?

I mean really?

What do you need with an October surprise when you have Diebold in your back pocket?

Oh, I'm sorry to have insulted the moral character of such a fine man as W. who never lies (WMD's, matter of emphasis, yellowcake).

your right, us dems and the principles this country was founded on, just suck. Welcome to the United States of Jesus.

[Tweed]

7. Weren't most pushed by Seventhson who turned out to be a Freeper?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. i never liked him-he was a total asshat...

he was a caricature of a liberal... a fucking cartoon...

[Tweed]

33. He always tried to split us, I think he has reincarnated

as some other DU members. Especially the ones who are talking about this stolen election.

[sangh0]

60. Yep, "Stolen election" and "DLC" and "It's the gays fault"

and any other divisive topic

[hughee99]

123. you forgot

"the youth vote F'd us" (they promised to show up, but not enough of them did), "the media", and "everyone in a red state is an idiot and doesn't know what's best for them."

Some point to the "exit polls" as proof that the repukes stole the election, as if somehow a poll of a few thousand people is more accurate than an actual election. I don't doubt that there was some fraud going on, but I don't believe that there was 4 million votes worth of fraud. Nor do I believe that the exit polls were all that accurate, especially results from exit polls taken before many people have even voted.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

135. i avoided them...

call me naive but i'm not much of a conspiracy buff...


i usually avoid the conspiracy threads because i agree with folks here on the main issue-defeating pugs...

I'm jumping in today because this pilfered election brouhaha is distracting us from our mission-defeating pugs....

[Mick Knox]

17. I dont remember him

But its everywhere.

They didnt steal it.. they beat our ass.

I dont know how they did.. but something caused people to vote for that * over Kerry.

Over 4.5 million voted for him in my own state of CA.

We need to get to our base or something, I dont know. i dont know that I'm smart enough to figure out what to do .. but I do know 4 more years of * = stole election or ** = stole two elections wont due us a damn bit of good.

All we do is lose - and we do so by repeating the same mistakes.

The GOP has one big good thing - they are united in ignorance. We splinter around to different parties based on one thing or another - and we dont have control of one single branch of gov.

We need to do something, I dont know what.

I'm just venting about all the machine talk - its like terminator IV or something.

[Walt Starr]

9. Yep, nail, hammer, head

Good Post!

:thumbsup:

[TimeToGo]

11. Well, here's the thing

People like you (I assume) said the same kind of thing after 2000. And I listened. After all, the Republicans are Americans too. Bush came from an important family. His father was sort-of centrist, so maybe it is all ok, and we shouldn't be alarmists.

But, look what he did during the last four years. Worse than anyone's predictions. But maybe you don't think so?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. people like the asshat-

he's going to protect them from the evil one and make sure their sons don't marry the boy next door...

[Mick Knox]

31. in 2000 he didnt win by millions of votes

This year he did.

2000 was a perfectly legit complaint, to have recounts stopped, selected by the court, etc.
This was not the same at all.

This is tin hatters grasping.

[TimeToGo]

50. But that wasn't your argument

You were arguing that things aren't going to be as bad as people say -- I am afraid your are right -- they will be worse.

[jdj]

54. when you factor in egregious omission from voter reg. rolls

and vote spoilage, that kills your wide margin. I'll give you that fundies came out more, because they were rounding them up right in church, which is so not legal.

[Mick Knox]

63. Fundies are allowed to vote

Thats not stealing an election.

I'm amazed they would come out like that to deny rights - but they are still allowed to do so.

[jdj]

75. well, I get e-mails from my mom's church.

I actually have one where the preacher said go vote for Kevin Pressley. Unfortunately that is all the body had in it and the e-mail came from the church secretary.

not legal.

[ComerPerro]

12. bin laden was exposed just before the election

and, suprise! he was armed with left wing talking points.

Or had you forgotten about the video?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. i thought osama was a wash and that's what the polls indicated

[TimeToGo]

19. Their "little gift"?

Interesting, hey?

[ComerPerro]

27. I don't think it swung too many people

But I think it really got the right wing fired up.

"Look, its Osama, on the teevee, and he sounds like Michael Moore! I knew that guy hated America! Who cares that Osama is apparently still making videos and not in jail! Lets go vote Bush!"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

137. u might have a point there-nobody said pug followers are smart but pugs

are plenty smart...

[jdj]

25. did he really say "quagmire" today???

that's from a headline, if he did, that would be too funny.

[Carni]

35. Yeah, I would tend to label that a surprise

OBL even mentioned "my pet goat" hell, he could have been reading one of the posts from DU in his video he was so blatantly partisan...(but I am sure that wasn't intended to reflect poorly on the Kerry supporters at all, right?)

And please... just because the tape was lame and no one reacted it was indeed an October surprise IMO and let us not forget that idiotic "azzam the terraist" tape that they trotted out a couple of days earlier that everyone essentially laughed at.

Going further I would venture to say that Dumsfeld's claim that Russia made off with weapons and explosives and took them to Syria was designed to be something of an October surprise.

They had "surprises" but they also had people discounting their crap just as quickly as they could spew it out there.

Obviously "martial law" was not declared but I didn't see too many people actually seriously claiming that was going to occur.
I saw a lot of "nothing would surprise me" type sentiment about anything that Bush might do...but let's face it most people familiar
with the bush regime wouldn't be surprised by anything they'd pull.

AS to the taking to the streets business...I have been reading several posts regarding people yelling and hollering and getting into it with bush supporting bystanders, coworkers and neighbors.
I sort of classify that as "taking to the streets" and bush supposedly "won" the election fair and square with the plurality of the popular vote. (What I think I recalled hearing/reading was that if bush perpetrated fraud again and stopped the vote that people would take to the streets.)

Which brings me to my last point...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that computerized voting machines with no paper trail could be hacked and tampered with. It was my undertsanding that in some areas of Ohio they were used--whatever the case, they were certainly used in Florida and the exit polls most certainly didn't match the vote counts.

I see nothing "tin foil" about basic common sense--after what bush pulled in 2000 his reputation kind of preceded him.

[ComerPerro]

49. I would have to agree with the taking it to the streets remark

Hell, we have another post in this forum right now in which someone is suggesting that we load up shopping carts with shit we would typically buy, and then leave them at a checkout with a note explaining exactly why we are not puchasing these items or anything else.

We have a post suggesting that people cancel their cable subscriptions to kill several birds with one stone.

And last night, I and a few others posted on how we could go about finding churches that push political candidates on their congregations and getting their tax-exempt status revoked.


Now, DU is normally a place full of activism and creative protest ideas. But there are a lot of them being toyed with right now.

[Carni]

59. Yes, people are pissed

I'm there too...I always took "taking to the streets" as a euphemism for what people are trying to do right now (which is take a bite out of the right wing supporters wallets!)

[bearfartinthewoods]

80. None of those ideas are new

This is all the same ole same ole......

[ComerPerro]

82. But I am seeing them all at once, and being very urgently pressed

[The Doctor.]

155. I LIKE IT!

Especially the notion of revoking 'tax exempt' status from churches who pushed a candidate.

I know most fundies went for Bush, but we would have to accept that there may have been a few who pushed for Kerry and are subject to the same scrutiny.

How about this idea should the 'faith based initiative' come to pass:

I would LOVE to start an ordained ministry... we'll call it, say..."The First United Church of SATAN" in big red letters and all.

We'll perform community services, like feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, teach self-defense to battered women, etc.

Then we'll apply for FBI (Faith Based Initiative) assistance.

Watch the hypocrites come out of the woodwork!
(Except for the obvious Falwells and Robertsons)

They would HAVE TO TRASH the Constitution to deny the funds.

Oh, good times....

[LisaL]

13. Well, Osama did show up just before the election.

Only he wasn't on ice.
:eyes:
But seriously, what would you need October surprise for when you can just "count" the votes?

[Mick Knox]

24. If * stole that election - Kerry helped him.

He stole it right out from under the nose of Kerry and all his lawyers and election monitors? If so, we dont deserve to win - and in fact Kerry probably helped him. How could that happen?

Thats what you must think. Kerry and his lawyers and monitors all teamed up to beat Kerry by turning a blind eye to some election scheme.

[Carni]

37. And you're talking about tinfoil?

Yeah--I am sure it was the skull and bones thing...give me a freaking break, because that's totally asinine.

[gatorboy]

18. Actually the truth is more damaging then any tin foil theory.

And that is a large group of Americans went to the polls to ban the rights of another group of Americans based on fear and hate.

I find this far more disgusting than any voter fraud. At least with voter fraud, you could still say the people weren't able to vote their minds. Now we know they voted for what they believe and what they believe is one group of people in this country cannot have the same rights as others. And all I've been hearing is how the left is trying to stunt other's religion beliefs. Well, here's a group that took there beliefs to the polls and are forcing them on others. Bush the Uniter, my ass!!!

[TimeToGo]

20. I agree

I'm not sure which is worse! Both are disgusting. So . . .

[Mick Knox]

26. Isnt that weird?

How could hate motivate like that.

I dont even grasp how that could happen.

Really I dont.

But apparently, that and other things did mobilize them.

Kerry got more votes than Clinton, and lost.

[Liberal Classic]

21. Welcome to the Osamacapades!

But seriously, thanks for being a breath of fresh air.

[sangh0]

22. The Twin Cities weren't nuked

a rumor spread by god_bush_n_cheney

[sangh0]

28. We didn't send the Navy out to invade the world

This summer just past, the Navy sent out a number of ships on training exercises to "show the flag". Some of the conspiracy-weenies thought bush* was going to invade the entire world.

[ScreamingMeemie]

29. Ummmm....where's the mole from the Pentagon whose arrest was imminent?

Where's the indictments for Valerie Plame? I could go on...but you couldn't care less.

[Mick Knox]

36. Am I arguing that they arent corrupt?

No, I'm saying it is IMPOSSIBLE to steal the most monitored election in the history of elections - unless you want to argue Kerry helped Shrubbie do it.

he had teams of lawyers and monitors.

He is a man of character and he stepped aside.

Why?

Because he knew he lost legitamately.

To argue otherwise is Absurd IMO.

[ScreamingMeemie]

38. Anything is possible at this point. Men of character don't tell the

people who have just worked their asses off for him that he'll wait for the count and then walk away. This stinks of something. I'm not sure what. You can swallow that pablum...I'm not. Here I am hanging. No Pass, Mr Kerry...I want my money and my time back.

[Mick Knox]

42. He quit because he knew there was no hope

and he saw he was soundly defeated.

If he thought there was fraud bells would have been rung to high heaven.

If you think otherwise then you wasted your time and money in the first place and should forget politics all together.

I do realize many good libs on this board are talking about doing just that.

That means Arnold is right,
we are a party of losers and (i'll add) quiters.

So we dont deserve to win EVER.

We'll just wallow in cute theories and await the roundups (that will never come)... but we'll wait.

[ScreamingMeemie]

58. Bull shit. No, we'll stop nominating DINO's who don't represent us and

stop pinning our hopes upon them. We don't deserve to win with Bush Lite. Kerry=Mega fuckup. Sorry, I knew there was a reason it took me so dang long to warm up to him. Perhaps you should brush up on your German. Or bending over.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ScreamingMeemie]

69. Back at ya baby.

I say this as one with connections to the Holocaust as well. Let's all just sit back, ignore history and watch it happen to our friends here because no leader in our party has the balls to stand up to this administration. My kids aren't growing up like that if I have anything to say about it.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jdj]

79. what's this about cutting cable?

cable tv?

is this a protest or something?

[ScreamingMeemie]

85. Yes, sangh0 is under the impression that I live some kind of cush

that includes cable t.v. It's the new way of debating...insulting. It's a lot of fun. :hi:

[sangh0]

89. So now you have something against insults

I guess the "brush up on your German" remark was meant to be flattering

Who knew?

[ScreamingMeemie]

Not an insult, just a fact. Plain and simple. We've rolled again,we'll

continue rolling.

[sangh0]

97. So now you're backing off your insults

while complaining about how others "rolled again"

You're just chickenshit, who has made no sacrifices while demanding sacrifices from others.

Keep bending over and you'll stay right where you ar; Screwed

[ScreamingMeemie]

104. Nope. I'll buy the textbook for you even.

:hi:

[sangh0]

108. Another big sacrifice?

a textbook.

[jdj]

96. so they mean cable tv?

I want my MTV!

but I don't watch cable tv because I hate those people like some folks here seem to hate each other. It's not good for my digestion to look at their faces. :hi:

that's assuming that people are saying boycott cable.

[ScreamingMeemie]

106. Yes, it was a slam that basically I am somehow an elitist.

:hi:

[sangh0]

112. Not "elitist"

Self-entitled enough to describe a man who risked his life for others as "bush*-lite" DINO.

[ScreamingMeemie]

114. In this case, yes.

:hi:

[sangh0]

120. No, self-entitlement is a chronic condition

and you've got it bad

[sangh0]

87. It's about how posters call politicians names

when they haven't done anything themselves.

[ScreamingMeemie]

90. ROFL...ask the Dem Party here, sangh0. My kids forgot my name

because I was gone so often. But, I forget you know allllllll about those you don't agree with. Assumption has made you into exactly what we were warned about when we assume.

[sangh0]

103. Wow, you did some work?

Wow, so impressive.

How much anthrax did YOU recieve in the mail? How many of YOUR friends were murdered by the BFEE? How many times have YOU risked your life for someone you've never even met?

You think you deserve a medal for doing what millions of americans have done. You're wrong.

[jdj]

99. that's too oblique...

can't someone just say it straight out

or is it a secret?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

140. I Like My Cable...

Waaaaaaaaaa


And anyway I am a caregiver to my 86 year old mom... She's been pulling the lever for Dems since FDR beat Wilkie...

I can't take away her tv...

but i like the idea of loading up the cart and then leaving at the store with a note...

[ScreamingMeemie]

83. Good. He deserves it. I don't own cable. If your 75 year old grandmother

blindly bought the crap being spewed out...you bet your bippy I would. I shop at Aldi's and Big Lots, my kids wear hand me downs. My husband drove the same truck for 22 years until it crapped out on him. So, you wanna keep insulting me and my family? Go for it. I've got nothing to hide. There's actually people on here who know me in person, and know this is how I am. Like it or lump it. I ain't changing. I'm changing our party back to what it was. I live in Detroit...a city turning into a ghost town. My mother in law lost her house...my husband teeters on the edge of losing his because it's third tier production, not even big three. So screw the accusations, get realistic, see what's happening to our country, and quit enabling insider politics.

[sangh0]

95. Again, what have you sacrificed?

Where are YOUR balls?

If you're going to complain about how others didn't jump on a grenade for you, I want to hear what you've done for them. Let's hear about it.

You want to complain about Kerry's "broken promise"? Well, then let's hear about all the promises YOU have made to the people of this country and kept.

[ScreamingMeemie]

100. Two fucking years, on a promise I made to my kids. There it is sangh0.

While Kerry took our willingness to work for him and blew it out the window with that concession speech...without so much a word about how our gay and lesbian friends and neighbors had just been reduced to what amounts to as 3/5ths a person. He was supposed to have their backs, remember? I've still got their backs. I won't let this happen to them...or to my kids. It's about We the People...not the political elite.

[sangh0]

105. That's it?

You did volunteer work?

That's it?

DO you think you get a medal for that?

[ScreamingMeemie]

109. I deserve more than what I got sangh0. My children deserve more than that.

You know it. All I've seen from you is a holier than thou attitude. Our party has hit the skids. Have a great night sangh0. I'm done here with you. My children can get better than what they've gotten. I only hope someday you'll see beyond yourself and a need to cover for the obvious mistakes that were made in this campaign enough to join us for real change.

Take care,
Laura

[sangh0]

111. No, you deserve NOTHING for volunteer work

It's a form of CHARITY. You know what that is, right?

[Mick Knox]

94. Kerry was a DINO? Stupidest thing I've ever read

That guy has been fighting for liberal causes every since he stopped fighting in vietnam.

That was a idiotic thing to say MrsGrumpy.

[ScreamingMeemie]

102. Yesterday and the day he voted for that Damned war he proved himself

as a Dino...cockroach...whatever you want to call it. Sorry, no apologies from me.

[sangh0]

107. Yep, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb

that;s why there's no argument there. Just name-calling.

[ScreamingMeemie]

110. I agree. Blind, blind, blind....sheep....baaaaah. Time for pasture.

Goodnight sangh0 :hi:

[The Doctor.]

167. We?

I'm a Republican and I've seen more fight here than I've seen anywhere else.

Your post has only the intent of demoralization, not illumination.
The difference is obvious.

The notion that DU'ers should "quit politics all together" is very hopeful of you.

'Cause I've listened to these people, and they are not quiting 'cause some shithead tells them they should.

There will be no roundups (yet), But the suggestion that we should give up on finding out what happened is HIGHLY suspect.

We should ALWAYS seek truth, and anyone who tells you it's a waste of time has something to hide.

So please do Fuck Off.

[Carni]

40. Then why are they bothering to count the provisional ballots in Ohio?

If he is so damned sure he lost then why not burn the things?

I guess I don't understand what your beef is with getting a final tally?

[jdj]

43. legally they have to be counted.

it's a procedural thing.

[Carni]

47. I am still not ready to believe a Pres with a 47% approval rating

Pulled out the popular vote.

Call me a tin foiler then but I just don't think the math adds up.

[jdj]

57. not me neither.

especially when the approval rates come from places like the AP and CNN.

fuggedabout it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

64. I'm gladly a tin foil hatter on this one as well.

:hi:

[Blue Wally]

144. 47% approval

Based on a small sample polled. Different when large numbers of people go into a voting booth. Sometimes the poller discovers that his sample was not representative of the overall population.

[mountainvue]

157. I don't

either. Something is not right here.

[BootinUp]

44. Agreed

We got our butts kicked. eom.

[Cha]

45. I didn't buy into any of those theories...

but the bbv is beyond a theory and if you don't want to investigate.. that is your democratic right.

[The Doctor.]

151. Why not investigate?

The numbers are already skewed.

That may not be enough evidence, but why are you so keen to ignore the possibility?

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

46. My problem with the Kooks is...

...They set themselves up for GUARANTEED failure!!

I mean really...How DO you beat the BOOGIE MAN???


These people wear me out. But, they're fun to read in an Art Bell kind of way. I just wish they didn't waste so much of their time on this crap. Imagine if they put that time towards efforts with tangible results? We might even win one or two.

[Mick Knox]

48. Its much easier to blame boogie men

Than work towards real results.

[jdj]

66. wow.

what have you done?

do tell.

because I know Bev Harris has worked her ass off.

[Mick Knox]

74. My state is blue

Dont try to blame me :)

Maybe blame newsome and unions and boogie men.

[jdj]

77. I didn't know that if you live in a blue state you don't have to do

anything but vote and tell everyone else they are crazy.

must be nice.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

78. To what end??

[jdj]

91. well, she's given a lot of pathetic trolls a reason to live, for one thing

I find the FOIA requests that went out this week a good body of evidence, I hope that they keep on this.

[Carni]

72. Well, it was us "kooks" that discovered that bush flew his saudi buddies

Out of the country after 911 (we fooled that 911 commission with that particular tin foil hat theory huh?)

Maybe you should take Craig Unger or Kevin Phillips to task for all the nutty things they have written about the bush family?

Add Richard Clark, Paul O'Neill and a few other liars and tin foil hatters to the mix.

But keep talking about how to make the party more palatable to the knuckle draggers, security moms and evangelicals it seems to be working out really well so far!

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

92. Well, you "Kooks" were wrong, as usual...

...Just another time wasting urban legend...

The report will also debunk several “myths” that have built up around the terrorist strikes that killed nearly 3,000 people in New York City, Washington and Pennsylvania, the officials said.

According to the report, they said:

* The Saudi government did not fund the 19 hijackers.

* Relatives of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden were not allowed to fly out of the country until after air traffic was allowed to move freely after it was grounded following the attacks. Moreover, those family members had no connection to the terrorist plot.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5473034/


How much time was wasted on THIS kook-crap???

[Carni]

115. Looks like you don't know what you are talking about

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/06/09/Tampabay/TIA_now_verifies_flig.shtml


TIA now verifies flight of Saudis

The government has long denied that two days after the 9/11 attacks, the three were allowed to fly.

By JEAN HELLER, Times Staff WriterPublished June 9, 2004

But now, at the request of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks, TIA officials have confirmed that the flight did take place and have supplied details.

The 9/11 Commission, which has said the flights out of the United States were handled appropriately by the FBI, appears concerned with the handling of the Tampa flight.

"What information, if any, do you have about the screening by law enforcement personnel - including law enforcement personnel affiliated with the airport facility - of individuals on this flight?" the commission asked TIA.

The TIA Police Department said a check of its records indicated no member of its force screened the Lear's passengers.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

119. Don't know what I'm talking about?

No...I guess I'm not too up to date on Kooks. You got me!!

I guess I'll just have to retreat into the findings of the 9-11 commission and hide my head in the sand.


Hey wait a minute!! Maybe the 9-11 commission members are IN on the conspiracy???

Well...I guess I can't prove they're not!!

Yeah! That's your ticket!!

[Carni]

126. Did you READ the fucking article?

Maybe you need hooked on phonics?

Or maybe the TIA are all a bunch of "kooks" too?

Maybe the St Petersburg Times is in on the conspiracy to make Bush look bad?

Man you're awfully worried about the Dem party looking like "kooks" for someone with 51 posts--BTW what great thing did YOU bring to the table in this election?

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

130. Did you READ the fucking article?

Maybe you need hooked on phonics?

Or maybe the 9-11 Commission are all a bunch of "non-kooks" too?

Maybe MSNBC is in on the conspiracy to make Bush look good?

Man you're awfully worried about the Puke party looking like "non-kooks" for someone with 1000 posts--BTW what great thing did YOU bring to the table in this election?

[Carni]

133. Obviously you don't have an answer

If you HAD read the article you would have seen that the 911 commission was "very concerned about the handling of the 9-13 flight"

Tell Rim Job I said hi!

[Name removed]

139. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Carni]

141. Pull the portion of the report that addresses the 9-13 flight

Or stop seeking my attention freep.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

143. Seeking YOUR attention??

Ummm...Read up the thread. You're the one who came sniffing around me, freep.

[sonicx]

52. there were spoiled ballots tossed in OH, but it doesn't matter...

they were in poorer neighborhoods and aren't goin to be counted anyway.

Fair elections should be a standard, but it ain't gonna happen. Poor folk don't matter...

[jdj]

70. that's what palast is saying.

"In the end, the challenges were not overwhelming, but they were there. Many apparently resulted in voters getting these funky "provisional" ballots—a kind of voting placebo—which may or may not be counted. Blackwell estimates there were 175,000; Democrats say 250,000. Pick your number. But as challenges were aimed at minorities, no one doubts these are, again, overwhelmingly Democratic. Count them up, add in the spoiled punch cards (easy to tally with the human eye in a recount), and the totals begin to match the exit polls; and, golly, you've got yourself a new president. Remember, Bush won by 136,483 votes in Ohio."

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=392&row=0

[Carni]

88. Oh yeah THAT kook

Just think of what real change Palast could have effected if he'd come back to the states and done phone banking before the election!

[jdj]

101. ha, ha, good one.

phone banking. LOL

[The Doctor.]

53. So, because some of the more outrageous predictions

did not come true, all suspicion must be abandonned.

Notsomuch there fella.

[sangh0]

56. That's what seventhson used to say

.

[jdj]

61. I do find it weird that people accept that someone would

lie to get on a website and harass people for nothing to lose and nothing to gain, yet people don't seem to believe someone would endeavor to commit election fraud because of having everything to lose and much to gain.

[sangh0]

seventhson had nothing to lose and something to gain

he successfully disrupted and distracted us for years.

[jdj]

71. I barely remember him.

It all runs together.

[BootinUp]

86. Interesting observation, but

it seems to me that case 1 takes a lot less effort than case 2.

[The Doctor.]

148. What did Seventhson used to say?

I hope you are not implying anything, the substance of what I said was, "Just because you don't find culprits in unlikely places doesn't mean you should stop looking altogether."

It is my opinion that this election was stolen with the help of BBV.

Do you disagree?

[sangh0]

153. It's an implied straw man

"Just because you don't find culprits in unlikely places doesn't mean you should stop looking altogether." implies that I've stopped looking because sometimes there's nothing there.

I've looked into these. The ones I dismiss are the ones I've looked into and found nothing there.

It is my opinion that this election was stolen with the help of BBV. Do you disagree?

I think it's a distinct possibility, but I don't know. I need more info to come to any sort of conclusion I could feel confident in making.

[The Doctor.]

164. I agree that there is more to learn...

I am confused that my contention with the original post was compared to something 'seventhson' might have said.

I do not know what he said, that was my original question, "What did seventhson used to say?"

I have never suggested that you had stopped looking for anything, my post had nothing at all to do with you.
Taking my clarification for implication tells me that you are in an agitated state. We all are.

To the quick - do you think I am him?
In that case we are in more dire straights than I thought.

[ArkDem]

68. Since all voting is handled locally by local officials it would be

kind of hard to have a nationwide conspiracy.

[jdj]

84. remote access modem

read up on this.

Oh you probably won't get this post since you probably don't live in my county. :eyes:

[manic expression]

73. There will probably be

someone even more evil in Ashcroft's place.

[Mick Knox]

81. No debate there.

[robbedvoter]

93. You prefer to be a loser rather than robbed, suit yourself.

But it was stolen,

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/11/04/election_reactions/
index1.html

Mark Crispin Miller is a media critic, professor of communications at
New York University, and author, most recently, of "Cruel and Unusual:
Bush/Cheney's New World Order."
First of all, this election was definitely rigged. I have no doubt
about it. It's a statistical impossibility that Bush got 8 million more
votes than he got last time. In 2000, he got 15 million votes from
right-wing Christians, and there are approximately 19 million of them
in the country. They were eager to get the other 4 million. That was
pretty much Karl Rove's strategy to get Bush elected.

[DancingBear]

98. Such a cute post

Especially the "tin hat stole the election" part.

Tin hat people, check in please:

Greg Palast

Bev Harris

Mark Crispin Miller

Mike Malloy

and countless others

All armed with facts, of course. And, per you, all crazy!

I'll bet you think Cleland and Barnes actually lost for real, don't you?

Here's what to do - work REALLY REALLY hard in 2006, and then when Diebold or someone else gives Bushie a filibuster-proof Senate you can apologize.

Till then, play quietly in the corner.

[Mick Knox]

113. Those people dont mean shit

Who the fuck are they? Pundits?

HA!

That means the DNC is helping them... because they sure aint saying it.

I dont buy that.

And if you do, then forget about and go put on your orange suit... because were all dead meat.

[DancingBear]

142. Oh, this is rich - pundits???

Hell, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting Bev Harris or Greg Palast on Hardball or Russert. I'm just SO tired of seeing them everywhere.

If this is all you have you really should give up.

It's embarassing.

[TexasSissy]

116. Errr...aren't you forgetting the CD found in Iraq of American schools?

Had a LOT to do with the security mom vote, I think. It was released in October that it was "found," but it was actually "found" in July.

Surprise.

[fedsron2us]

117. There was a 'Tin Hat' theory doing the rounds before 2000

that Bush would invade Iraq if he got elected. Of course, nothing came of that rumour.

[Name removed]

118. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fedsron2us]

122. OK maybe not on DU, but try this 1997 quote from Jay Hanson

"Once global oil peaks, and we need to start pumping Saddam's oil, I expect Americans to invade and occupy Iraq. Moreover, profits will flow to friends of George Bush - not some wild-eyed, gun-waving crackpot like Saddam. Obviously, once oil production peaks in a couple of years, the
public will throw their total support behind an invasion of Iraq."
-- Jay Hanson in 1997

http://www.oilcrash.com/articles/peak.htm

[sangh0]

124. Umm, real conspiracies are usually kept secret

the desire to invade Iraq was revealed in a letter to Clinton years before bush* squatted into the White House. Seeing as how bush*'s cabinet included several signatories to the letter, I'd say that Hanson was something less then prescient, and that the desire to invade Iraq was something less than a conspiracy.

BTW, I do believe in some conspiracy theories. Please don't take my comments as a blanket condemnation of conspiracy theories. I'm just not big on the tin foil-y ones

[fedsron2us]

125. I did not say it was a conspiracy

Those are your words. The invasion of Iraq was a premeditated war of aggression carried out by the US government for political and economic ends. The possibility was openly touted as an option in the PNAC literature. Bush just failed to mention the fact on the election stump in 2000. I wonder what he has omitted to tell the American people this time around

[sangh0]

154. My apologies

I've misunderstood you. I apologize for that. It's been a rough day, but that's no excuse.

[notadmblnd]

121. You might want to rethink your statistics

Bin Laden wasnt "on ice" and exposed just before the election.

not true, OBl may NOT have been captured but he was trotted out before the election.

- Chimpy didnt declare marshal law and cancel the election.

you are right on this one.


- there was no october suprise at all.

ok, two for 3

- The public didnt rush into the streets if shrubby won.

techniclly right on this also, people are not rushing into the streets, it's being organized.



- No one is being rounded up and put into camps, ashcroft is even RESIGNING. (nor will they be)

this could still happen when the people take to the streets, so in my opinion theres a good chance you are wrong.

The list goes on..

despite being wrong 99.99% of the time (except when accidently correct), now the tin hats have a new one..

stats are about 60/40 your favor so far but let's move on.

The machines stole the election!

take a look at these numbers for FL http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm
Just one example: (if you can wrap your mind around it.

Dixie County:
Expected vote: 968(bush) 4,988(kerry)
Actual vote: 4,433(bush) 1,959(kerry)



The machines werent used in ohio you say?

just totally wrong on this one.

Well lets not let facts like that get in the way of cool theories even though tin hats are NEVER correct.

yes, let's not let fact get in the way.

Lame

Cool excuse to wallow - but lame.

Lamer, perhaps you meant to post this on a nother famous site?

[Eric J in MN]

127. They used punchcard marchines in poor precincts in Ohio, which undercount

nt

[KittyWampus]

129. Interesting A Small Core Of DU'ers Apparently Intent On Making The

obvious irregularities and anomilies associated with paperless electronic voting and tabulating machines seem like "conspiracy theory".

The problems with E-voting are FACTS... not baseless theories that some people have come up with over time.

We are now compiling data that illustrates the irregularities and anomalies.

Very different then imagining what October Suprise will be...

[Carni]

134. Kind of interesting isn't it?

They sound amazingly like the denizens of freerepublic.

[baldguy]

145. Stalin remarked that in elections, it doesn't matter who votes...

... it matters who counts the ballots.

Wake up - the Republicans are counting the votes.

[Mick Knox]

159. Are they counting them?

Kerry had teams of people watching this election.

Give me a break.

If we lost, Kerry helped Bush - and thats absurd IMO.

[m berst]

160. why?

Why do you so aggressively object to people questioning the integrity of this election? We have a right to, and we have a duty to. Who would have any objection to that?

[Minstrel Boy]

163. "Kerry had teams of people watching this election"

You do know electronic vote tabulations can be hacked offsite, right?

[m berst]

146. not so cute

Thousands dead in Iraq; stolen elections; massive federal debt; divided and hate-ridden population; torture and illegal detentions; massive lying and cover-ups; corruption on a scale never befoire seen in our history.

These are just a few of the "tin foil" theories from years past about this adminstration that have come true.

[UdoKier]

156. Your thinking is flawed.

There is no way to prove or disprove voting machine hacking in Ohio since the machines are DESIGNED so that they cannot be audited, and ther can be no reliable recount. No matter what you do, the machines will continue to spit out the same numbers if they have been hacked with an algorithm to add one GOP vote for every fifth dem vote and subtract the dem vote. Every computer expert says it can be done. The makers of the machines, HUGE GOP donors AND Christian Reconstructionist nuts, expect us to take it on FAITH ALONE that the machines are accurate, and they consistently balk at the idea of a paper trail that would allow us to verify whether the vote was accurate or not.

Why should they object to a paper trail if the machines are so infallible? It will just validate their claims right?

And why have the exit polls matched the returns perfectly in states with scan and punch card ballots, but shown a huge discrepancy in Bush's favor ONLY in the states with electronic machines?

If you're not concerned by that, YOU are the one who needs some tin foil. The GOP transmissions from Fox News are contaminating your brain.

[Starlight]

161. "Why should they object to a paper trail?"

My thoughts exactly. If they were an honest, reputable company, wouldn't they do everything possible to make sure their product is trustworthy & their reputation unsoiled? Why did they even *develop* machines with no paper trail? And fight so hard against it making this simple modification? And refuse to allow outside auditors to review their software programs? And promise to deliver the election to *? Unless they were up to something...

...if it looks like a duck & it quacks like a duck...:wtf:

[jackson]

158. Read Greg Palast

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/kerry_won.php

Greg was right about Florida in 2000. He's likely right here....

[Moderator]

168. locking -- this is too out-of-control