Should gays & lesbians and their supporters leave the Democrats?

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

Im wondering, for the good of the party, if the gay community and their supporters should leave the Democratic Party so the Dems wont be tarred with this "poor moral values" brush.

These big big defeats of gay marriage should be a real signal that the vast majority of people in the US do not like lesbians or gays and what they are about, so heck, why should the Democrats be saddled with this alabtross of supporting what most people think is immoral and wrong.

Maybe the gays and lesbians could join the Greens or something. It seems kind of selfish to ask the Democrats to sacrifice their political chances and other worthy political goals (like health care for all, education aid, better wages and conditions, etc) just because they are pro-gay rights.

I hate to say this, but maybe this has to be done in order for the Dems to win again.

[LSdemocrat]

1. Nonsense. We need to stand by OUR values. Equal rights for ALL

Otherwise we're not a party worth fighting for.

[mzmolly]

2. NO! We need to stand up for civil rights!

Should we have suggested Blacks not have the right to vote because it would please the bigots?

The Gay Marriage strawman won't likely be an issue in 2000 anyhoo.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

8. Actually the Democrats did have segregationists in their party.

That was back in the old days. The Southern Dems supported the New Deal, but also where pro-Jim Crow.

Im thinking that the country isnt ready for this gay thing now.

[DrWeird]

10. Yes, and now those segregationists are Republicans.

And democrats are the ones for civil rights.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

43. yes thats true, but I dont see how the Dems can get out from this..

...man, this anit gay backlash in this country is taking down the Dems with it...those referendums really brought out the voters, at least here in Ohio.

I dont see how the Democrats can get out from under this moral values thing.

[DrWeird]

47. Well, we've got the moral high ground.

But you support a guy who orders troops to rape kids, and then blames the troops for it.

[slackmaster]

67. You're right, but we need to get a grip on the language

The party that controls the language controls the debate, and as Lee Atwater said if you are always explaining yourself you are losing.

[DrWeird]

87. I'm not asking you to always explain yourself.

I'm asking to explain yourself once. Isn't there something in the Bible about not lying? Quit being a coward and come out and explain yourself.

[Minimus]

3. Are you serious?

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

5. Yes...I am. The gay issue is taking the party down.

I have to say that it pains me to say this, but one has to look at the greater good....what the Democrats could do for ALL people if they are in power.

[DrWeird]

7. Islamophobia... homophobia...

do you hate black people too?

[Minimus]

31. Read your response

ALL people includes ALL people!

[Liberal Veteran]

35. So you sell out your values for a victory and you want us to trust..

....your good intentions?

Funny....the democratic party pulled the same thing on women. After the civil war they said "be patient....we'll give you the vote when the time is right."

50 years later women had to practically shame the democrats into making a stand for suffrage.

No sale.

[HEyHEY]

38. Greater good? By telling everyone that doesn't fit the homophobic racist

agenda to get the fuck out of our party!

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

46. i dont think racism and homophobia are the same thing.

when you deal with the gay issue you deal with moral and religous stuff, which is alot differrent than racism.

What I am thinking about is if the gays lesbians and their supporters distance themselves from the Dems so the Dems could have a chance at winning elections....

[Liberal Veteran]

48. Do you still want our votes?

Cause I tell you...I can get the same deal from the GOP if I want to vote for a party and still get screwed.

[DrWeird]

51. Sorry.

Racists hate blacks because they think the Bible tells them too. Just like with homosexuals.

[Liberal Veteran]

66. Answer the question dammit! Do you still expect our votes?

Do you expect us to sit in the back of the bus and support your with our funds and vote and manpower until you decide when should be allowed to move out of the back of the bus?

[tedzbear]

127. No he doesn't. He wants us to leave.

Leave the p-a-r-t-y. Go Green (which I already have).

[MidwestMomma]

123. How is being gay 'moral and religious stuff'?

People are born gay. They aren't 'born-again' gay. They don't wake up one day and join the Church of the Latter Day Gays.

You are seriously and probably intentionally misinformed on this issue.

If you don't believe that gays are people too, why don't you get the fuck out of the Democratic party.

We'll do just fine without your kind.

[really annoyed]

162. Exactly

These moral high-grounders seem to forget that:

1) A lot of gay people are Christian.

2) The majority of gay people have families, including children of their own.


I'm sick of gays getting treated like they are second-class s*it. Excuse my language, I couldn't find a better word to use at the moment.

I totally agree MidwestMomma - these people need to get lost.

[bushisanidiot]

157. When AWoL asks for a constitutional amendment which prohibits 2 christians

from being able to marry eachother, then maybe I'll go along with your plan..

[bushisanidiot]

155. Do you have any idea how many MILLIONS of votes this idea will cost dems

in the gay vote?? has it even OCCURRED to you that we gays cast ballots too???? we are nearly 10% of the population and you want to brush us aside as if our numbers are that insignificant??!

[DrWeird]

4. You also thought Abu Ghraib was a frat prank.

I'd say you should leave the democratic party, but it's clear to me you're not really a democrat.

[maddezmom]

121. thanks Dr. Weird

glad I read before I posted :shrug:

[jonnyblitz]

6. mights as well build the camps now. too many of us for gitmo...n/t

[pk_du]

9. Wow - that was a wake-up call

...here was I , a relative newbie thinking "1000 posts" were real Dems?

[DrWeird]

11. Big mistake.

post counts don't mean shit.

[ulysses]

12. things just get more bizarre around here.

[DrWeird]

15. Actually, this is right on track for this poster.

nt

[ulysses]

89. frightening thought.

Where the hell have I been?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

159. Yup, there's a scent in the air

*sniff*

Is it pizza maybe?

[Touchdown]

13. Another 28 MIllion less voters?

...that's if you believe the Kinsey 10% theory. Add in bisexuals, and that number grows. Add in thier families, and we're talking about another 56 MIllion, just for their two parents. Should I factor in brothers/sisters/friends/co-workers/and ex-wives?

Why stop there? How about asking the anti-war to leave. Their nothing but aiding and comforting the enemy, aren't they?

If you believe what the media is saying now about gay marriage, then you obviously believed them when they threw out that bullshit about war protesters two years ago. Swallow some more propaganda.

Exclusionary policies are not what the Democratic Party needs.

[NightOwwl]

14. Sickest thread I've seen all day. n/t

[gatorboy]

16. Ummmmm......no.

I will be damned if I ever give up principles for politics.

[patdem]

17. waverly hills hiker..i have NEVER seen you here before yet you have

a star..and +1000 posts...I think you are a poser...being the party who HATES is not the demnocratic party...maybe YOU should join the greens???

[ElsewheresDaughter]

111. it's odd waverly hills hiker i too have NEVER seen you here before!

and i'm always on for hours at very different times of the day too

sniff sniff

[zoeb]

18. Make gays mainstream...

Then they can't be a wedge issue...They've been in closet for years and years...fight for their rights, in your states, for the next 4 years so they are socially acceptable instead of outcast.

[Malikshah]

19. This is the vilest, most heinous piece of crap I've ever seen

It is beyond the pale and disgusting.

Clearly someone wanted a flame war.

If this is the discourse now on DU-- then someone needs to rethink the boards.

[terrya]

20. Excuse me, but...go to bed, ok? Get some sleep.

This post HAS to be the result of exhaustion. This is one of the most insulting goddamned things I've ever read on here.

[ET Awful]

21. While we're at it, maybe we should get rid of the blacks too,

after all that affirmative action thing hurts us, as do social programs for inner cities.

Maybe we should get rid of the latinos too, that immigration issue bites us in the ass every time.

Then we can get rid of the women, we all know womens right to choose is a tough battle.

The we could get rid of bigots.

[Redleg]

22. We should get rid of narrow-minded people instead.

Ya get my message?

[BeFree]

23. Nice of you to ask.

If I were gay, I'd join the republican party. If ya can't lick 'em join 'em. <grin>

[blm]

24. I always pegged you for a freeper.

.

[blondeatlast]

88. Ditto that. nt

[Amaya]

25. Are you really this ignorant?

or something stinky? sniff sniff.... yup, that's what I thought it was.

[Deja Q]

26. Then fuck the dems. Don't hate me for speaking up. You started it

with your despicable attitude against us.

Daschle, Gephardt, and a few others made me wonder some time ago if the Dems had a chance. Thanks to Cowardly Kerry's Crass Concession, the final nail is now driven in.

You can keep this joke of a Dem party if you're going to act like this. I'm not worth it to you, so you don't need my vote. Ditto for the MILLIONS of Dem GLBT folks out there. And, if you ask me, the Dems need every vote they can get. And, with 'people' like you, we will now question if our votes are worth it.

Good job. :eyes:

Oh, ever realize that your attitude is PLAYING STRAIGHT INTO THE HANDS OF THE REPUKES?

[Indiana_Dem]

49. Hypnotoad--don't leave....

this guy is obviously a freeper plant. Don't buy into this. I like you. We've had a good time talking on here during the last year!:cry: I loved your obsession with the PEEPS! Please!

[Carolinian]

27. Quit trying to split up DU! Gays are free to go wherever they want.

[fishnfla]

28. dont worry. the morals mandate will let them lynch gays

selfish sacrifice be damned!

[Political_Junkie]

29. I know what you can do.

How 'bout you crucify all of us gays and then you'll be sure to get the religious right vote next time too. :mad:

[slackmaster]

30. Bad plan

These big big defeats of gay marriage should be a real signal that the vast majority of people in the US do not like lesbians or gays and what they are about...

I respectfully disagree.

The majority of US voters are not yet educated or enlightened enough to feel comfortable conferring traditional and legal marital rights to same-sex couples.

These things take time. To make a bad analogy, if you "blow your wad" early in a fight like this all you are going to do is piss off your, uh, opponent.

Naive heterosexuals respond best to honest, personal friendship from gays and lesbians. Shoving the entire equal-rights agenda in their faces all at once scares them.

I'm very sorry about this, but people must be patient on this subject.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

56. Yes I think that battle is already lost.

Im wondering if this gay marriage thing passes quick it wont be an issue anymore for the Dems and Republicans. But I think its pretty much a lost issue, just by looking at these referenda....

This sort of signals that the GOP probably could get that Constitutional amendemnt through pretty quick if they wanted too.

[slackmaster]

65. Just 13 state legislatures can block a Constitutional amendment

I think I could name 13 that would never go for it.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

73. gosh I hope so..

...I am losing all hope over this.

[DrWeird]

79. I bet you are losing hope.

I mean, just how many hours did you waste making those 2800 hundred posts?

[SmokingJacket]

Thanks for uniting us against people LIKE YOU. n/t

[MuseRider]

32. Good lord, you

can't be serious. Are you? Jesus, we do not need this.

[HEyHEY]

33. WHAT THE FUCK??? Yes, let's regress

up yours man

[wicket]

34. NO!!!!!

[Lefta Dissenter]

36. A better idea

would be for selfish, homophobic assholes to join the republican party. Feel free to take a box turtle with you. :eyes:

[wellstone dem]

54. Best response yet!

Has to be from a Clark supporter.

[Lefta Dissenter]

98. gee,

how'd you guess!?!?! I thought I was so well disguised!

[TexasSissy]

37. Well, if you're going to require ALL Dems to think like you, even tho

it's not in the party platform, then yeah, maybe you are in the wrong party.

But I don't think gay marriage is in the Green Party Platform, either, so you'll run into people there, too, who don't agree with gay marriage.

If you require that everyone in your party think exactly the way you do, then you may have to start your own party.

A lot of the Dems. didn't think it was smart for gay activists to push the marriage issue during this heated election year. Turns out they were right. You should look to your leadership to see if you need more savvy leaders. In retrospect, it would've been smarter to lie low and wait until AFTER the election to pursue your goals.

Most Dems., even those who don't think there should be gay marriage, aren't necessarily against it. I mean, they wouldn't fight it. And that's MUCH better than the Repub Party or any other party that I know of.

[ulysses]

57. ...

A lot of the Dems. didn't think it was smart for gay activists to push the marriage issue during this heated election year.

And, lo and behold, they didn't. The Republicans did.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

39. This is such BULLSHIT.

We are the party that is defined by our defense of civil liberties. We are not going to screw over our own for the sake of some redneck votes.

[name not needed]

40. Maybe you should leave the party.

There's no room under the big tent for bigots.

[sonicx]

41. OK, were did DU go? is this DLCU now?

[bigwillq]

42. I'm sorry but this may have to be the worst post

that I have ever seen on DU!

This is what's wrong with this country.


WE ARE FUCKING HUMAN BEINGS.

We breathe, we bleed, we have feelings and thoughts and ideas just like you.

I am seriously offended by this post.

[LynnTheDem]

44. Jebus fucking Cripes!!!

Why don't you just go JOIN THE RIGHTWINGNUTS already, for fuck's sake!

PARTY UBER ALLES??? That's for rightwingnuts.

[Wat_Tyler]

45. Yes. Them and the Jews.

They're all untermenschen, after all. While you're at it, we have some nice brown outfits we should try out. We'll start smashing up libraries later.

[Fenris]

58. Don't forget the blacks!

This brown shirt fits lovely!

[name not needed]

61. You should see mine!

It's great! And it goes great with my new armband!

[Fenris]

64. I got a hat and some nice new boots too!

Good for stomping on people's skulls!

[name not needed]

69. There's a book burning on tuesday, wanna come with?

[Fenris]

71. I'll bring my truncheon!

[Wat_Tyler]

81. Great.

We won't forget Poland. Ready the Panzers!

[blondeatlast]

50. Having a bit of trouble with a latex allergy? nt

[GingerSnaps]

52. Wait a second

I remember one of your posts and your gay aren't you? :shrug:

[Wat_Tyler]

55. I HOPE TO DEAR, SWEET GOD, HE'S BEING IRONIC.

I hope to God.

[DrWeird]

62. he's not.

same poster worked over time apologizing for Abu Ghraib when it all came out. It was just a "frat prank." I'd link but archive's down.

[GingerSnaps]

70. So do I

:shrug:

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

63. Yes,,,,

...im in despair about whats going on now...everything is going down the tubes...even tho the gay cause is going down I at least want to see the Democrats survive!

[DrWeird]

72. I have a question.

How could somebody support raping and murdering and torturering men women and children at Abu Ghraib, or at least look the other way, and then say that they have "moral values?"

Could you at least have the decency to answer that one question honestly?

[terrya]

74. Oh, right...so let's just jettison all of those fags and dykes, eh?

I see. Thanks for making it clear.

Now, go fuck yourself.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

77. Thanks for your kind words.

I really appreciate the thought.

[Liberal Veteran]

94. You still didn't answer my question.

Do you still expect our votes after the party abandon's us.

I mean really...there are only somewhere between 10-20 million of us in the United States.

I'm sure you'll make up the difference in those "on the fence republicans" who listen Sean Hannity....

[blondeatlast]

78. Oh, dear, me too!

Whatever shall we do!

[GingerSnaps]

Are you really from Ohio?

Let me get this straight you came out on this board a while back but you are against gays now.

What happened did the Church of God cure you? Hallelujah I'm cured is that what happened?

BTW I don't think that there is a cure because it's not a disease.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

128. What makes you think im against gays.

What im saying is a strategic move to try to make the Dems more politically viable in states like Ohio....

And yes I live in Ohio.

[IronLionZion]

53. and who will be left when they come for you?

This country is already way too conservative, but we are going to take a hard right turn to taliban levels hella soon. If we don't stand up for gays, who will stand up for us when they come after everyone else?

[Sugarbleus]

83. BINGO!!

FIGHT PEOPLE!! This is a NEO-FASCIST coup! It was predicted..when will you WAKE THE FUCK UP!

EVERYBODY'S RIGHTS OR NOBODY'S RIGHTS

I'm old enough to understand this, goddamnit. READ THE HANDWRITING ON THE WAL...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

115. AMEN

[Generator]

No, dear you need to change to the Republican party

It's amazing how many claim to be Democrats have no idea what it means. Please, register Republican now, don't wait.

[miss_kitty]

59. why don't you read "All Deliberate Speed"

by Charles J. Ogletree. It's about school desgregration and the overturning of Plessy (1896, Separate yet equal)

Every time a society must make a huge change there will always be asshats who disapprove. Fuck them. Are you saying the Dems should be EVEN MORE like the Thugs?

So you are saying gay people should not behave as if they are entitled to the same civil rights as rich straight white men AND stay in the Democratic party? Not very compassionate of you dude.

[idiosyncratic]

60. This is a sick, sick, sick post.

I hope you were joking with this "idea," otherwise you need to get help.

Gays and lesbians need to be accepted as normal by 100% of the general population.

There should be no discrimination against anyone, for any reason.

[gollygee]

68. What?

Uhm, nope.

[Sugarbleus]

75. My GL fellow Americans can make up their own mind...but

I STAND BY THEM..their rights, their safty and happiness in this EQUAL RIGHTS SOCIETY...As long as I live!!

[DoNotRefill]

76. What's wrong with gay people?

nothing that I can think of....YMMV

I think we should take the "boil the frog" approach on this. Rather than push for "gay marriage right now", push for civil unions. Then, after we get the civil union part into law (giving gays all the rights of gay marriage, just not the words "gay marriage") and people see it doesn't destroy the world, we can push for gay marriage later.

Baby steps.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

84. hell i dont know...ask the around 60% who voted against gay marriage.

dont ask me. Apparently 60% of the voters in those states that passed the antigay amendments think somethings wrong....hell....

[DrWeird]

90. thirty years ago 85% of whites were against interracial marriage.

That changed. So will the opinion on gay marriage. It's only a matter of time. It's inevitable. I bet that makes you upset, doesn't it?

[mondo joe]

102. How about those opposed to interracial marriage?

Want to court their votes as well?

[mondo joe]

80. Maybe people without convictions ahould leave the party.

Maybe it has to be done.

You know, to win again.

[Jack Schitt]

82. Hell no!

We're a party of civil rights. We aren't republicans. We welcome all in our party.

You need to put down the ganja...

[Q]

85. Whew. I'm simply shocked at this thread....

...asking someone else to sacrifice so that others can gain politically?

- Maybe you should think of this: YOU should leave the party so that gays can stay in the party that wants to promote equal rights for all Americans?

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

95. Look, the gay association w. the Dems are hurting the Dems..

...so maybe there should be a divorce.

Perhaps the GLBT movement needs to move to a third party, and work via the third party for gay rights, and let the Democrats do their thing for economic justice and such.

Back in the 19th century there was special purpose partys, too, like the Prohibition Party and the Greenback Party that organized around single issues.

[Q]

103. No...YOU are hurting the Dems...

...and perhaps you need to look into joining the official party of bigots: the GOP.

[MrMonk]

86. Would that include "cross-dressers"?

If so, your profile suggests that you should get out now.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

152. Maybe he plays Jesus in the local Passion Play

Hence the cross.

:eyes:

I agree. By the OP's logic, anyone whose "hobby" (heh) is crossdressing should haul his pantied ass out of the party.

Yeah, I know most crossdressers are hetero, but I don't think such fine distinctions will help when the fundies start rounding up people they consider deviates.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

91. To quote Rev. Al...

"I'm riding this donkey as far as it will go".
I will always be a democrat and I'm damn proud of the changes they brought on society.
I'm not for bringing my party down to the hateful level of a few.

[MrTriumph]

92. Waverly is talking about tactics

Obviously the gay rights movement is in big, big trouble. ELEVEN anti-gay marriage proposals passed easily. You can bet we will see more in 2006 & 2008.

So, I ask those of you opposing Waverly: Just what strategy do you suggest to keep these measures off the ballot? Do any of you think these measures can be defeated and if so how?

[Liberal Veteran]

97. And I'll ask you this....do you still expect us to vote for your party?

If the party will not stand behind me and will abandon me and scapegoat me, I'm sure I'll have to reconsider if I made the proper selection in parties.

[MrTriumph]

How about answering my question instead of stomping your feet?

How about answering my qeustions. They deserve an answer.

I understand the goals. Please explain just what is the strategy to achieve those goals? What are you going to do to keep anti-gay legislation off the ballot in 2006 & 2008? How will you defeat them? Or are you just going to allow them to go down in defeat and take the Demo. Party down with them again?

[Liberal Veteran]

109. Have we asked you for ANYTHING?????

The gay community has stood by your side for over 30 years and the ONLY thing we asked of you AT LEAST DO US THE HONOR of preventing the right wingers from making our lives worse and trying to legislate us into non-existance (like that could happen).

About the only thing so far that we asked for was that President Clinton uphold his promise to lift the ban on gays and lesbians from honorably serving their own damn country.

Everything else is issues the other side brought up, but that's OUR FAULT?

How dare you!

[MrTriumph]

118. Not true- G & L went publicity crazy last spring

The tactics employed last spring- very public mass weddings and a rush on marriage licenses- have obviously backfired.

Maybe the g & l has not "asked much". But the spotlight the community put on itself has put the Demo. Party in difficult spot.

What is the plan for g & l to achieve their goals?

[mondo joe]

122. "What is the plan for g & l to achieve their goals? "

The real question is what is the position of the DNC?

Instead of WAFFLING and trying to have it both ways why doesn't the god damn DNC take a POSITION and FIGHT for it?

Like "We support civil unions for same sex couples".

[MrTriumph]

130. Blind support is unmerited

If the movement hasn't a plan for success, why should the Dem.s blindly support them. Without a plan, the movement will wind up with nothing.

The tactics employed this last spring backfired. Rove exploited them (and other fcators) to defeat the movement and the Demo. Party.

[mondo joe]

132. The Dems need a plan. And a position.

But the plans and positions have to be consistent or you lose your base.

So tossing civil rights out is not a good strategy.

[MrTriumph]

146. Fair enough. But what is the GL strategy to achieve their goals?

And what is to be done about the gay marriage bans on state ballots?

[mondo joe]

164. What makes you think there is a gay monolith?

You know, one unified group with the same values and goals?

[Liberal Veteran]

129. Oh, brother...so let me if I understand this.

A gay couple decides to challenge the law in court as every citizen has a right to do in order to get a marriage license (most likely cause they would like to get married before the democratic party finds a fucking spine to stand up for them..and by the way, we haven't forgotten DOMA) and in doing so, the right wing blamed the democratic party even though it was neither party and yet want to pretend you actually DID something for us?

There is nothing, absolutely NOTHING different about what that couple did than what Jane Roe did. If she had waited for people like yourself to work your attention around to our concerns it would have been made on behalf of her great grandchildren.

Thank you oh-so-very much for your backhanded support.

[MrTriumph]

134. The Party did plenty for you, you ungrateful....

Clinton & the party took a HUGE hit when, as one of Clinton's first decisions, he moved to help gays in the military. Yeah, Don't Ask/ Don't Tell was the compromise after the military went bonkers.

Clinton's first 2 years were upset by this and the party paid dearly in '96 when we lost the House.

[mondo joe]

136. Who the hell asked to be in the Army?

That was Clinton's stupidity.

Being in the army has never been a particularly pivotal issue for most gays.

[MrTriumph]

140. Clinton hoped to establish rights for gays by starting with the army

Truman started with rights for blacks by integrating the armed forces. Clinton was following Truman's example.

[Liberal Veteran]

144. And instead of taking a stand when we had a majority congress and the WH

....we folded like a deck of cards for a compromise that changed absolutely nothing.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't bow before your magnificient display of spine in that one.

[MrTriumph]

154. Time has lessened the memory of the inital brouhaha

My point is still this: Clinton & the party took a huge hit. IMHO, it was the beginning of the end for Demo. control of the House.

[Liberal Veteran]

139. Ungrateful what?? Huh....have the guts to finish it.

The military didn't go bonkers the fucking right wing did and the dems pretty much capitulated into something that is so fucking ludicrous that anyone can tell you gays and lesbians were actually kicked out at accelerated rate.

It might have been better to lose than make a compromise that isn't worth the paper it was written on.

I mean think about it....The entire crux of Don't Ask, Don't Tell is a single question on the enlistment form that is now gone.

Beyond that, nothing has changed.

Such dead weight we are.

I will not play scapegoat for your party. You just better get over that idea right now.

I have supported this party through thick and thin and time and again when asked to make a stand, people like you capitulate.

[MrTriumph]

143. Ungrateful PERSON

Correction: The military did go bonkers. Democrats still controlled the House at the time.

[TeacherCreature]

149. This is unmitigated bigotry. Hateful and uncalled for.

I didn't think this community could sink any lower.

Sadly, I was wrong.

[MrTriumph]

161. Bigotry? I reminded the poster that the Demo. has paid a price

If you are referring to my use of the "why you...", I didn't want to fill in the blank with something nasty, so I used "..."

If you see "..." as bigoted, I suggest you are incorrect. You don;t have anyidea what I might have been thinking- good or bad.

[TeacherCreature]

147. Yeah, let's not "ALLOW THEM" to bring us down. WHERE AM I?

I thought this was a DEMOCRATIC PROGRESSIVE webiste.

Funny to find a bigoted call for PURGING THE HOMOS here then, isn't it?

Lord help us all.

[MrTriumph]

163. How about providing an answer to my questions?

What are you going to do about future efforts to put gay marraige bans on state ballots? Believe me, the Republicans are going to get them on the ballots again.

What's the strategy to meet the goals of gays & lesbians?

[mondo joe]

100. What strategy do you suggest when you lose the gay votes?

What are you gonna' replace them with?

[MrTriumph]

104. M Joe - fair question.

I don't have an answer for you Joe. I wish I did.

The party is in a heck of a bind on this one.

[blondeatlast]

108. The hell they are. nt

[MrTriumph]

105. M Joe - fair question.

I don't have an answer for you Joe. I wish I did.

The party is in a heck of a bind on this one.

[mondo joe]

110. The problem is not the position. It's the campaign.

Mr Triumph, I believe you are mistaken in attributing loss to the position.

Bush and Kerry took virtually the same position on same sex marriage.

The problem is in the campaign, and the "branding", if you will.

[MrTriumph]

124. Am I correct

Wasn't Bush's position this: Ban gay marriageby constitutional amendment.

Wasn't Kerry's position this: personally he opposes gay marriage, but as a matter of law it is up to the states.

They do not sound alike to me and I suspect most voters did not view them as the same.

[mondo joe]

131. You're doing Bush's talking points for him.

They both said they opposed same sex marriage.

They both said they supported civil unions.

Bushco BRANDED Kerry as pro gay marriage. And you're repeating it.

That's a problem with the CAMPAIGN, not the POSITION.

Kerry was too namby pamby to instead turn around and brand it a STATE'S RIGHTS issue.

[MrTriumph]

151. Positions

"Bushco BRANDED Kerry as pro gay marriage. And you're repeating it." No, I did not say that, but, yes, Bush did try to leave that impression.

"That's a problem with the CAMPAIGN, not the POSITION." True, but Bush & Kerry did not have the same position.

"Kerry was too namby pamby to instead turn around and brand it a STATE'S RIGHTS issue."
In fact, he did say it was best left to the states in debate #2. If I am incorrect on this I apologize, but I think I am correct on this.

[mondo joe]

153. So you agree with me.

Bush "did try to leave that impression".

Kerry "did say".

It's about BRANDING.

And Kerry ALLOWED himself to be branded as something he's not.

And he failed to BRAND Bush as what he IS.

[Nevernose]

106. Tactics versus strategy

Keep these measures on the ballot. Let them pass.

It will take longer, but gay rights WILL become a reality. It just might take a decade longer. While we're at it, let them ban abortions for teenage victims of incest and start a couple of more wars. In the long run, it won't go over so well.

I have faith that in the long term, we'll win the debate.

[MrTriumph]

126. Let them pass? Sounds like you are going the wrong direction & taking the

Sounds like a strategy for losing elections.

[blondeatlast]

93. FREE P...

eople unite.

He's about to get a latex allergy... And I mean that as a double entendre!

Good morning, Mr. Phelps; your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to take the wind out of this loser's sails...

[LibertyorDeath]

96. Your Logic such as it is, Sickens me.

As it would any true Democrat.

Your post is infantile homophobic shit.

[Goldmund]

99. The Democratic party isn't a baseball team

in which you just trade players so that you can win the playoffs.

If this happens, I'm leaving too. And I'm as straight as an arrow.

[donco6]

101. I leave and I take my money with me.

Screw you, asshole.

[leftchick]

107. you must be at the wrong website...

try hatemongers.com aka: freerepublic

[blondeatlast]

112. He simply can't take the latex allergy anymore,

even though his habit in his profile says "cross-dressing."

This is his big unmasking, I think--I'm sooooooooooooooooo terrified.



NOT.

[Lars39]

113. Shit. Just ship 'em off to the camps.

No reason to stick up for basic human rights, is there? Not if we want to win. /sarcasm :puke:

[kdmorris]

114. What the HELL are you talking about??

Because other people are misogynistic, racist, homophobes, WE should join them? Become like them? Why don't people who want to be divisive go make your own party and leave the Democrats? You can call yourselves The Party of Spineless Jellyfish.

I cannot BELIEVE that this crap is even posted here. No, what you are saying is "How much of our soul do we have to sell to win?" Maybe we should throw all the African Americans and women out, too? I mean, those women and blacks are hurting out chances, too, you know. Seems like all they want to talk about is their rights.

And just so you know, NO ONE ASKED ME to sacrifice our political chances. It is NOT a sacrifice to stand up for what is right. And if we decide to act like this, we are NO BETTER than those assholes that voted for Bush. WHO GIVES a SHIT if the "vast majority" of people in the US don't like Gays and Lesbians?? They don't like ANYBODY that isn't just like them.

Damn, I'm not even making any sense. This is one of the stupidest threads I've seen in a long time and I didn't even get a chance to read the other responses. It just completely offends me and I'll just hope you are some Rethuglican plant trying to rile us all up rather than for real. Because if you are for real, this country really has gone too far to hell to save.

[jdots]

116. should there be a purity test next ?

the human race would fail.should we be judged by the amount of our imaginations ? Oh sorry you can imagine being some one else ? oh too bad. This isn't about votes or power this is about life and equality.

[Frangible]

117. Jesus fucking christ people, enough of this shit

Stop plotting the demise of your fellow democrat. A division from within isn't going to help us. We're supposed to be the compassionate ones, remember?

Yes, most of America hates gay marriage, that's just the fact of the matter. But gays are still people, they are our friends, and they deserve respect and equal treatment.

I voted against the gay marriage ban here and always will stick up for our gay friends. But the thing we need to realize is the homophobia in this nation is a serious problem that we cannot get rid of overnight.

We don't have to abandon gay rights, but we do have to frame it differently. It cannot be done at the federal level -- at least for now. We need to make gay marriage and other homophobic topics an absolute NON ISSUE for us in 2008.

But that does NOT mean it has to be at the expense of our gay friends. Absolutely not. We need to begin by working towards gay rights in key states like California, New Jersey, Illinois, etc where progress can be made today.

We need to take small steps, and not take leaps that frighten this sadly homophobic voting base. I think we CAN make people come around to our viewpoint in time, but it will take a long time. These things do not happen overnight.

Our 2008 candiate must be absolutely bulletproof on the "gays" issue, but we can still work towards gay rights in different arenas. Eventually, we can do more on the federal level, but for now focusing our efforts at the state and local level is the only way we will see results.

[salvorhardin]

119. I'll take "Closet bigots" for $100, Alex.

I've been debating for about 10 minutes whether or not to dignify your thread with a reply. Fortunately, plenty of others have said everything I could say, often much better than I.

If you're not a freeper plant, then I'd highly suggest you reflect on the following phrases:

• We the people
  
• in order to form a more perfect union
  
• establish justice
  
• provide for the common defence
  
• promote the general welfare
  
• secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.preamble.html

Now compare the above to your proposal and ask yourself if you really want to go down that road.

[MAlibdem]

120. Bigot.

Why don't you join the republicans?

[amazona]

125. oh for cryin' out loud

The vast majority of people in the U.S. have lesbians or gays in their family or friendship circle. The hatriots may be loud but they are not a majority and we can't win them anyway.

Because they also hate blacks. And women.

I will follow the lead of LBJ. He was not willing to sacrifice the rights of blacks to buy votes from bigots. We should not be willing to sacrifice the rights of gays or whoever is the "out" group of the week to the bigots.

Let the bigots have their own party, they will anyway.

[rasputin1952]

133. When I first read your OP, I thought, "what is this?"...but after seeing..

you are asking, what I think is a sincere question, I will give you my answer: An emphatic NO!.

I am a straight male, but I know a few gay people, and have the honor of calling some of them my friends. I believe the Democratic PArty is the true Big Tent party, and everyone is welcome in it.

There should be no discrimination of any type, in any form in the Dem party. Trying to get all of these elements together, is like herding cats, but it can be done.

I can only speak for myself, but I believe the Democratic Party is the only party that will welcome all on equal terms. We are diverse, and dynamic, just as we should be.

Gays and lesbians out, I don't think so.

[Trahurn]

135. I think you should leave the democratic party

These classifications of people you so skillfully use are exactly that...."people" and that is what the democratic party is all about. You sir are what is commonly known as a "fair weather" democrat and it is you that should jump ship for the sake of our party.

[robbedvoter]

137. And blacks and women and all the damn yankeys. Out you go!

(I am out too - so this drivel only amuses me now)
Why should the hollier than thou Dems be attacked for defending the likes of you? You are weak, the survival of the fittest sez - no party for you....:eyeroll:
Sometimes I wonder what keeps some on DU. I used to think we have some core principles in common, but I was dreamin'. Ugly shit! :puke:

[greatauntoftriplets]

138. If they go, I go with them.....

And I am a heterosexual woman.

[TeacherCreature]

141. Well this one gets my vote for WORST POST EVER

Yes, and let's drive out the neegrahs while we are at it.

I hear some of the white southerners don't like them either.

Is this still DEMOCRATIC Underground?

Seriously, I've been away and don't recognize the place...

[Bluebear]

158. FIRST THEY CAME FOR __________

[JPace]

142. The "gay" issue was used by the repugs to whip up the

emotions of the religious right and manipulate them to vote
against their own financial and safety interests. If that issue
had not been available they would have targeted something else.
The problem is not "gays", the problem is the deadly committed
and powerful republican party that has fine honed their skills
and media outlets into a weapon to destroy the liberals.
We cannot start throwing the baby out with the bathwater, we
need ALL our people and ALL our values. What we do need are
better leaders more willing to fight and I mean fight smart
and dirty and FAST! We are being out thought, out maneuvered,
ambushed from all sides and we end up stunned and shocked and
yes LOSERS!
We need better think tanks, better organization, better language,
and MORE media outlets. Air America is a good start, we need to
start educating the listening public and giving them opposing
views that explain to them why their needs can better be served
through the Democratic Party. We need to reframe the issues so
that they favor our point of view. There is a lot of work to be
done, but trying to change by becoming more right wing is not
the answer.

[Pushed To The Left]

145. NO

I would imagine that the vast majority of us here support gay rights..should 90% of DU leave the Democratic Party? If all people that supported gay rights left the Democrats and joined a third party, it would badly split the progressive vote. The result: Republicans win. Bill Clinton ran on gays in the military! You can't tick off the right-wing any more than that, and he ended up the President for 8 years.

[PopSixSquish]

148. Did It Hurt When Your Sense of Shame was Removed?

That's the second time I've used that on DU in two days. Sweet Jeebus, what the hell is happening here?

[Chimpanzee]

150. I'm not a bible scholar so come someone please tell me

chapter and verse where Jesus says that homosexuals are to be treated differently that anyone else?

Also, I know the bible has pasages against murder, so why do these evangelical wacos give bush a pass on 100,000 innocent people murdered by US in Iraq?

Also, why couldn't we have put a proposition on all swing state ballots that asks whether the minimum wage should be increased to $7.50/hour? Could that have brought out alot of democrat-minded people that maybe have never voted in their life and are strugling with 2 $5/hour jobs?

[really annoyed]

156. Heck No

What the heck is going on here today?

Yes, dispose of those degenerates so we can whip up support from those loveable conservative Christians. As a genius said on a Yahoo message board yesterday - perversion is not a civil right!


:puke:



There are people who think interracial marriage is immoral and wrong. Should we make it illegal? Or should we stand on the side of equality? There was a time where 90% of the population would have said "no" to interracial marriage.

Who cares if you think it's "immoral and wrong?" Then don't get married to a gay person! Take care of your own soul - stop trying to "save" others.

I'm very very sad to see the choice you are making. I'm not willing to sell out principle to win the hearts and minds of the lunatics.

[mondo joe]

160. Yes - ditch the gays and prove you're a flip flopper.

What should the DNC say - "Oops, we were wrong about civil rights and all. We don't like gays anymore."

Then the RNC can say "See? They have no principles. They go with the political winds."

Yeah, that's a great tactic.

[EarlG]

165. I can't believe I'm reading this.

Locking. And the person who posted this thread has been banned.