What is the problem people have with Libertarians?

[-..__...]

I mean really? I don't get it. (posted here only because there is no GD for the moment). Is it the social, economic or global issues that get people here in an uproar (even Conservatives hate them).

http://www.lp.org/issues

http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/platform_all.html

Spare me the joke about "Libertarians are Republicans who just like to get high".

On social issues (other than firearms ownership),I'd consider them far left. On economics, I'd consider them right-wing.

I'm missing something here. Explain it to me because after these last two elections that's the way I'm leaning.

[liberalmuse]

1. It's just that...

the Libertarians I've met are probably the most selfish fucks on the planet next to Republicans. I really have no use for the 'ME, ME, ME' shit.

[Dukakis88]

2. Uh... because they are selfish pricks?

They don't believe in a social safety net. Forget Medicare, let's let old people rot in the street.

[Sugarbleus]

31. BINGO!

That's that main thing about them that I hate. I like their ideas of legalizing or decriminalizing soft drugs and NOT taking the country into unnecessary, thoughtless, expensive wars and letting people have more PERSONAL FREEDOMS AND CHOICE. I am against insurance companies for example...they are all about EXTORTION in their present incarnation. Many Libertarians think like that too.

The anti-safty net, anti-social programs thing is A HUGE DOWNER for me about their party..otherwise I might have gone that way.

CAN'T ONE PARTY GET IT RIGHT? GEeez We are floundering around out here.

[Elidor]

3. Many of them are dicks?

I don't mean to imply that you are, but some of them seem - to make a gross generalization - to be unpleasant and/or tiresome. Ideologues of a foreign stripe, half-right and half-whacky.

Of course, some of my best friends are Libertarians, but you saw that one coming, didn't you?

[jadedcherub]

4. for me, quickly,

I dislike Libertarians because they place WAY too much faith in Corporations. I see Libertarians (if they were to gain power) taking the country away from any normal governance, and instead quickly moving us to corporate states, and that scares me.

.jc.

[Career Prole]

5. Two minuses...

Pickles was one once.
They always tell me to hush up.

One plus...
I really loved Shirley Jones as Marian the Libertarian in the movie version of "The Music Man".

[bif]

13. Marian the LIbertarian. Good one!

Thanks for the laugh.

[Career Prole]

14. I was trying to make it a more Loungeworthy subject...

It was sticking out like a sore thumb and people are trying to recuperate in here, I understand. Carry on! :hi:

[KittyWampus]

6. Some Libertarians Are Rational. Badnarik Was Actually Okay

most DU'ers are probably somewhat Libertarian in nature as regards social issues.

Just not as much economically...

[KingChicken]

7. Yes, the libs have some ideas, but it's like they want to live in a bubble

I know a few libertarians and they all advocate some kind of greed based system where everyone withdraws from involvement in society. It's like a huge narcissistic clan that will never win popular acceptance, the policies are not the problem, it's the people and their seemingly cold attitude towards others.

[eataTREE]

8. Their philosophy is based entirely on an ethos of greed.

They think hanging on to what's theirs is the highest moral value.

They think concepts such as society and community either don't exist or don't matter.

They think that it only counts as oppression if the organization that's doing it to you is called Government. If it's called a Corporation -- well, that's just the way the free market goes, baby.

More and better critiques of libertarianism than I could ever hope to give are here.

[oldhippie]

20. But, in a Progressive Society, shouldn't

those who wish to think about only themselves be allowed to do so, and those who wish to share, share? Aren't we for individual choice?

[KitSileya]

34. And also, they consider their children to be their own property.

They insist that not only is it their job to raise, and educate them, mnai libertarians home school, which is fine, but they insist that the government has absolutely no right to remove children from their parents. If Dad wants to use 9-year old daughter as a bedwarmer, the government should stay out of it. If mom beats 5-year old son half to death, the government should stay out of it. The rest of society will stop it by no longer dealing with those parents, that is, no longer shop in their store, or invite them to dinner.


edited to correct code.

[PittPoliSci]

9. i have no use for their callous contempt for social welfare.

So much for a safety net. Screw that selfish bullshit, all they care about are themselves, as bad as if not worse than republicans.

[LSdemocrat]

10. They HATE the government

They're just as paranoid about welfare queens as the Freepers.

[Dukakis88]

11. I'd love to live in a libertarian world

The public library would be closed down. Ignorance rocks.

All streets would be converted to toll roads run by corps. Kewl!

National parks sold to Wayerhauser and turned into paper bags for McDonalds. Good move.

Environmental laws can go in the trash can because they wouldn't want to pay any government to enforce them. I can't wait to drink half-and-half nuclear sludge from the tap. RIGHT ON, DUDE!!!

[BiggJawn]

15. But you're supposed to do your own research..

And realize that "sludge from the tap" is bad for you. Then you stop buying it, and the company that pumps it has to either clean up their act or go under.

Only problem is, there's no law in place that prohibits them from lieing to you about the safety of their "sludge", so you never supsect there's anything wrong with it until your dick glows in the dark and falls off. unless you're a tinfoil-hatter by nature and you get suspicous when your Ti plant starts yelling "FEED ME, SEYMOUR!!"

And never mind those "third-world" drugs. the shit that comes out of Indianapolis and Terre Haute will be mostly rat poison without a FDA to regulate it, but the Libertarians say you're supposed to be smart (and rich) enough to have your own lab work run on it before you eat it.

And how can you trust the lab? Why Free Market Rules, of course! If it's a BAD lab, the word will get around and they'll go out of business, to be replaced by a hopefully GOOD lab. And if the replacement lab's bad, well, it won't be around long....

[bif]

12. Here goes

I have a couple friends who are Libertarians. Here's their argument: There should be no taxes and no government. And absolutely no government regulation. Corporations and the private sector do a fine job of self-regulation. They aways do the right thing for the good of humanity. And leave it to the privatte sector to build schools and roads., etc. etc. (That''s what they believe!)

[-..__...]

16. Okay.

(Responding to my own post here).

The economic/corporate issues/control, I understand... reminds me of "Rollerball". Corporate wars, society and all that.

As I posted, the economic issues appeal to the Right. The social issues are appealing to the Left/DU... gay rights, abortion, immigration, freedom of speech, war on drugs, etc.

I guess what I'm getting at here is if not for the "selfishness" or "corporate/economic" platform of the Libertarian party, would people here support their social agenda?

[Dukakis88]

17. That's like asking if shit would taste good if it smelled like tunafish.

[blondeatlast]

26. Yes. I call them conservative Democrats. Libertarians are

still selfish pricks.

[Touchdown]

18. Social Darwinism

Nuff said.

[Union Thug]

19. They are economic FASCISTS.

[Cats Against Frist]

33. That's not true

Fascism would actually be the opposite of libertarianism. Libertarians don't regulate -- they punish. You think that they're just wild and unchecked.

Fascism is what we have now -- even WITH the regulations.

[Union Thug]

36. What's true is that they are social darwinists...

If Fascists was the wrong descriptive term, I apologize, but that's the kind of stinking elitist, one group (the rich) is substantively better than another group (the poor)kind of philosophy that Liberatarians preach. If you are poor, if you are unable to get your family the medical care they need, you simply aren't working hard enough.

Liberatarians are the spoiled brat 8 year olds of the political system... IT'S MINE!!!

[davepc]

21. The invisible hand

and lack of a safety net. Think Herbert Hoover.

[hatrack]

22. Libertarians get one big thing absolutely right, most of the rest wrong

The fact that government power over the individual is irrevocably and fundamentally limited. Take it all the way back to Hume and Locke and Runnymede and Anglo-Saxon common law, it's vital, it's fundamental and it's true.

Beyond that, they are totally out to lunch. To seriously maintain that a nation of 300 million people can operate on the budget and structure and economy of America as it was in the 1790s is quite simply insane.

"Yes, we'll just privatize everything, and somehow it'll all miraculously work out!" No, I don't think so.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

23. Because they're even more selfish and heartless and greedy than the

Republicans, they make no allowances for those who cannot fend for themselves, and their policies would quickly lead to socio-economic conditions similar to those that prevail in Honduras.

I don't give a damn if they allow drugs and abortion and gay marriage. Rich people, greedy or not, have always been tolerant of non-standard behavior among themselves. Do you think the Bushes really mind if Georgie Jr. drinks or Georgie Sr. has a mistress or the twins hold orgies in the East Room, as long as they keep it quiet? They don't.

It's all part and parcel of their self-centered brattiness: there's nothing more important than me and my assets, and what I want to do when I want to do it. It's the philosophy of a spoiled child. That's why I refer to "Libertarian brats."

Is that enough for you?

[highplainsdem]

24. Selfishness -- at least in those I've met personally. Every single one

of them had benefited in one way or another from government programs, often greatly. But their attitude was that now they were doing well, they didn't think any of their income should go in taxes to help others who needed the same breaks they'd received.

[DuaneBidoux]

25. I have NO Problems with them as long as they're not in power

I know I can watch my porn and have anal sex with my wife and our girlfriend and they'll leave us alone. The biggest reason I have no problems with them generally is that they are tolerant.

I think some of their ideas are REALLY stupid and unworkable and are already being tried in many third world countries like Rwanda (with miserable results), but other than that...

[LTR]

28. Hold on a sec -- your wife AND your girlfriend???

I guess I have no problem with that.

:yourock:

[Dem_Loyalist]

27. I think the big problem many people have with libertarians

Is they place all the responsibility on the individual rather than the government. I don't agree with libertarians, I happen to think a bit of socialism is a very good thing, a lot of socialism is an even better thing. But I think libertarians expect too much out of individual people.

[Cats Against Frist]

29. THANK YOU

Few people seem to understand that the big government apparatus services a right-wing authoritarian government just as much as it does a left-wing. Fewer people know that libertarianism can mean "left-libertarianism" or anarchy or anarchosyndicalism. I prefer federalism, de-centralization, under the framework of the Constitution -- BUT with an emphasis on the collective, the co-op, the informed consumer, the discriminating worker, and a union that derives its strength from solidarity.

Republicans have run on federalism, "personal responsibility," individualism and small government -- all Libertarian ideals -- and it IS A COMPLETE MOTHERFUCKING SHAM.

They are big-government, authoritarian right-wingers, who will now crow about a mandate and systematically use the power of the federal government -- that they claimed to hate -- to smush the entire USA into their box.

Few people also understand that the GOP, as it is, is NOT the free market -- but corporatism -- or can I say it? Paired with their loathing of the "reality-based" community -- fascism -- and that a pure free market combined with a union system that derives its power from solidarity, would actually be BETTER than what we have now, even with phony regulations and supposed controls.

People knee jerk against libertarians -- but I've seen this shit coming since April. The Commie "Big Brother" that everyone cowers in fear over has a Brother -- "Big Government GOP."

Libertarians are FAR less selfish than people who would trade identity politics and the welfare state for true individual rights, democracy and a non-corporatist free market.

The founders gave us federalism, and we need to use it NOW. I've seen TWO dem spokespeople talk about it on TV in the last 24 hours.

People rap on libertarians thinking that they don't care about the poor, exploited underclass that are kept down by a wealth-concentrated overclass -- when, in fact, a responsible consumer in a libertarian society with a strong union would be in a FAR better position than most of us are, now. And I've decided that what we've actually been doing is trying to save an apathetic, middle class from itself.

Libertarians are also pro-environment -- instead of regulations, though -- they punish through force of fines -- and instead of lands being held publicly, they want to turn it over to the Audubon Society, Sierra Club, et. al., to manage.

It's totally misunderstood -- and in the "pre Nov. 3" mindset -- is the monster everyone makes it out to be.

Now, it could be our only hope. Why?

These are actually the things that the GOP has run on -- drilling these things into their heads that the left is "big brother" and they are "small government," when anyone with a brain knows that the EXACT OPPOSITE is true. If we called them out, and gave them everything they wanted -- federalism, the abolition of federal income tax, etc., we'd have FAR more power than we do under the "Don't Believe Your Lying Eyes Mandate." Especially since the blue states are the biggest producers.

It might not be the prettiest picture -- but what's prettier? Libertarianism or Christo-Corpo-Fascism?

[CindyDale]

30. No one who takes votes away from the Republicans can be all bad

Seriously, though, you need an impartial third party to stand between the warlords and the people. Libertarianism would work great, assuming that the private sector makes a decent effort to act rationally, efficiently, and honorably. Problem is that it too often does not.

If government isn't going to be separate from business interests, though, Libertarianism certainly couldn't be any worse than what we have, could it?

Cindy

[AP]

32. Democrats believe that competing interests need a good referee in the...

...gov't to make sure both sides (whether labor and employer, or consumer and producer, or big business and small business, or whatever) can compete on a level playing field.

Libertarians believe that there should be no referee and that the winner gets to make and enforce the rules, and if it makes the world a worse place, so be it -- that's the winners prerogative.

[Tangledog]

35. Self-delete

I had fun crapping on Libertarians, but then realized my reply could have been interpreted as dissing the original question and/or the original poster, which wasn't my intention.

[sendero]

37. I'm going to give you a break..

.... anyone who had read my rants about libertarians here knows I can get pretty vitriolic. Given my mood vis a vis the election, I'm pretty sure I can be downright mean.

But I don't care. If you can't see what is wrong with libertarianism, I'm not wasting my time with it.