Notice how QUIET the Dems are. I sense something is up.

[TruthIsAll]

They KNOW. Just like we KNOW.

The numbers are right in front of them.

EXIT POLLS don't lie.

Election 2004 was highway robbery in plain sight.

The NYT is FOS. Exit polls are accurate.

The Dems are NOT stupid.

What happened to Gore in 2000 CANNOT be made to stand in 2004.

Democracy teetering on the edge.

Something is happening here.
What it is ain't exactly clear.

[Guaranteed]

1. It is awful quiet.

There's some speculation going on in LBN that they're still waiting for the Ohio absentees and provisionals to be counted.

[LisaL]

4. I think they run away and hid.

We were send e-mails from the campaign to donate money for those thousands of lawyers who were supposed to make sure that we will not have a repeat of 2000.
Where are those lawyers now?
What a joke, really.

[StickNCA]

6. Thousands of lawyers and hundreds of thousands of dollars donated

We were send e-mails from the campaign to donate money for those thousands of lawyers who were supposed to make sure that we will not have a repeat of 2000.

Interesting point. I too sent hard earned donations, for "the fight" that didn't happen. Hard for me to believe that this election was "stolen" as so many here purport, with thousands of fame seeking ego filled lawyers chomping at the bit.

[LisaL]

9. It was reported that lawyers wanted to go for it, but

John Kerry send them all home. That is if those lawyers really ever existed.

[siliconefreak]

8. What's LBN?

[ogradda]

12. late breaking news

eom

[seabeyond]

2. i havent watched news, so i dont have a clue

counting on du

[StickNCA]

3. The Exit polls don't lie IF

they are reported accurately.

This "tactic" which I believe was perpetrated by the DNC and or it's operatives was supposed to dishearten the pukes, keep them from waiting in line. It didn't work, and in fact, likely backfired.

Even friggin' Drudge fell for it and initially announced all but a guaranteed win for Kerry, until the manipulations and skewing became clear. Once the MSM got wind of the error in these exit polls, they were all afraid to make a move one way or an other, so they did nothing.

Hell, after Nevada was at 100% with * clearly the winner, they held off declaring it for him.

My own opinion is to look at the Carville teams' motives and tactics for a clearer answer as to what the fuck happened.

[arcos]

25. MSM???? n/t

[DancingBear]

37. MSM = main stream media n/t

[Selatius]

5. It doesn't matter anyhow

Bush is in, and he isn't getting out, so what you need to worry yourself with is continue to keep the network of contacts and such you and others made during this campaign alive. Keep it up and running. This is the new foundation of the Democratic Party. Apathy is going to be hard to fend off given the result of this election, but don't let it bother you. Just keep the network up and running for the midterm elections in 2006. We're going to need them given what happened now and in 2002.

They have a machine made up of think tanks, institutes, and foundations all networked together, and they use it to flood the airwaves and build a false consensus that is to the right, and it's all run by money from rich industrialist families and corporatists in big business. We don't have such a thing. What we need is a machine of our own built by the people, for the people, and of the people, or our vision of the US will perish from this earth forever. We don't have the money that big business has, and we likely never will, so what we need to do is cut the money out of the system. Fight for an election system run on taxpayer dollars, not outside money.

[Cleita]

10. Honey. Old ladies like myself can't wait for the next election

like we waited for the last one. We will marry anyone who has promise.

[NorthernSpy]

23. for certain, we need to can the DLC ...

... and put the Democratic Party on an entirely new footing.

This is necessary even if something interesting happens between now and when the E-College meets. An eleventh hour electoral win for Kerry (which is unlikely, but not impossible) would get him sworn in come January, but would otherwise change nothing.

The repub-lite strategy was never the winner that the DLCers claim. In '92, there were some normally repug states that Clinton won primarily because Ross Perot drew off a big chunk of normally repug voters.* In '96, Clinton was an incumbent presiding over peace and a strong economy, and Dole was a weak challenger who still had the Perot phenomenon to contend with.

I never tire of pointing out that the disastrous '94 elections followed the collapse of Clinton's healthcare initiative. Healthcare -- and the widespread belief that something big was finally going to be done on that score -- gave the Democrats considerable momentum and helped them get the needed turnout in '92. Caving on that (despite Democratic control of the Presidency and both houses of Congress) left Democratic voters with no real reason to show up when the '94 election came around. The knee-jerk, rightward-ho centrism of DLC has robbed us of ideas and momentum, alienated our base, and cost us elections.

There have been some pretty good tactical suggestions posted in numerous discussions here in the last few days, and on various blogs like Kos. The big conversation that we all need to have will concern how to work the most promising tactics into a strategy that we can test during the midterm elections.



*This is not to say, however, that Perot actually cost Bush Senior the election. That is a myth. Bush was unpopular enough in his own in his own right to lose the presidency, and in some states the Perot voters might otherwise have split evenly between Clinton and Bush.

[mbee]

52. We have to take them down economically so people if you really

want your country back don't spend one dime you don't have to.
Let's make today the first day that we pledge we will not spend one dime we do not have to. I intend to do the best I can and not buy for the holidays, etc. Luckily I have some things I can give. If we really care about our country we will follow through with this!

[City Lights]

57. My wallet is locked.

I will only buy what we need. This will be a rough four years for my kids, but they are already good little activists so hopefully it won't be too painful.

When I receive crap from credit card companies urging me to sign on with them I will continue to send anti-_bush back to them in their prepaid envelopes.

When I receive requests from charities in the mail I will suggest they ask _george to help them. I will gladly spend .37 on these envelopes if I have to.

Anyone thinking about visiting AZ should go elsewhere. Please don't bring your tourism dollars to this, or any other red state.

[Cleita]

7. It is, and the fact that websites like this are shoving

the shit right into their faces means they can't let it be buried. They have to notice. Humming here.

I am through with the mainstream Democrats though. I am going with the Green Party. It doesn't mean I won't work with Democrats. I just need to get away from the DLC guys.

[Selatius]

11. Don't bother with the Green Party

If there is any success the Democratic leadership can claim with 2004, it's that they virtually destroyed the Green Party in addition to everything else that happened.

[Cleita]

14. Oh, I don't think so.

Greeners are doing quite well in my county, winning seats and stuff. The more of us with real liberal values who join them, the better off they will be. Also, they haven't been corrupted yet by a hundred years of mainstream politics although a certain Republican we know did try to lead them astray.

[Guaranteed]

15. Join DFA instead. nt

[Cleita]

16. Enlighten me.

I have no idea who DFA is.

[mandyky]

32. Howard Dean's Democracy for America

30% of the candidates they helped got elected, many local and state legislative victories.

[Selatius]

18. Green Party locally, but not nationally

I don't recommend you go strictly Green. The simple fact of the matter is that our winner-take-all election system only tolerates two parties, and one of the parties is our best chance of influencing the agenda on the national level. On the local level and in progressive areas such as the northeast or the west coast, the Green Party can prove potent, but they are likely to never gain any significant voice in Congress, much less the White House.

I'm patronizing you, I'm sure, and I don't mean to. (Hell, I wanted to join the Socialist Party USA) What you can do however is try and get under the banner of the likes of Howard Dean or Dennis Kucinich on the national level. They are still inside the system. They will be your tow-hold on Congress, while you work from the outside to push a corrupt, weak Democratic leadership towards things such as instituting instant runoffs elections for all federal elections and abolishing the Electoral College.

That's going to be immensely difficult. The only way the Democratic leadership ever got anything done was with mass opposition movements applying pressure coming from OUTSIDE the system. At the end of the 19th century and early 20th century, it was the Populist Movement as well as the movement for women's suffrage. In the 1930s it was the Labor Movement. In the 1950s and 1960s, it was the legendary Civil Rights Movement and later the Anti-War Movement that shook America in the 20th century.

It was ordinary people who did this because the politicians in Washington either weren't listening or did not want to listen. They did not wait for someone to come and lead them. They did it themselves. The politicians simply played catch-up. Our party failed us. It's now time to choose whether or not we want its leaders to continue or whether we're going to be the leaders.

The true history of the US is the people's struggle for a better life. (More patronizing, I'm sure, but I feel the need to vent my frustrations)

[Cleita]

20. I appreciate what you are saying to me and

up until the results of this election, I thought like you did. My candidate was Dean and I loved Dennis, but when that brick hits you over the head, the old Sierra Club and tree hugging me has to go back to her roots, and I hope Howard and Dennis realize that their political future is Green not DLC.

[anarchy1999]

45. Dennis said in a speech or in an answer to a question that he was

really a "green" working as a missionary in the Democratic Party. Or something like that. It hit home with me and I've never forgotten it. David Cobb for President in 2008. I can only hope.

[KharmaTrain]

13. We're All Waiting To Hear From Terry McAuliffe

Oh, Terry...where are you? Come on out and let the folks say a few words to ya, ok?

[Citizen Kang]

17. Dont expect the party to do anything...

except roll over again. That's all they've done in the past 4 years. What has changed that makes you think they won't be any less spineless this time.

[RafterMan]

19. They're quiet

because they're on the mat. Knocked flat cold.

[tedzbear]

21. What's happening is NOTHING is happening.

The Democratic leaders are in shock.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[foreigncorrespondent]

24. Oh my! (n/t)

[ignatius 2]

28. Man,do you really have to be so bitter. Don't click on the posts if

you don't like what you read. Nobody is forcing you to read them. We all feel shitty enough without going for each others throats, save it for your dickhead president and his brownshirt followers.

[MrChupon]

61. Alright

I apologize for attacking truthisall, now you apologize for insinuating that I have something to do with Bush and his Nazi regime.


***Wake up DUers... every time someone says something that is slightly inflammatory does not make them a troll.***

Especially a freeper troll.. Republicans don't have that kind of grammar and spelling. :-)

[anarchy1999]

46. TIA is one of the most respected DU'ers of all time.

Not a good way to have yourself be welcomed here. And by the way, welcome to DU, don't slam TIA!

[tritsofme]

26. There is a 99.99% probability

that this election is over and we need to start working toward the next one.

I don't need mathematical simulations to figure that out.

[ArkDem]

43. I would say your numbers are low.

[incapsulated]

27. People get real quiet when they're dead n/t

[Flammable Materials]

29. Do yourself a favor and get through the denial.

There's no silver bullet.
There's no knight in shining armor.
The Cavalry isn't on its way.

We've been abandoned.
We've been betrayed.

Say it.
Learn it.
Accept it.
Move on.

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. Seems the trolls are out in force this AM

something must be up. Otherwise, wouldn't they be so ready to stomp on anything with a ring of truth to it. When folks start telling me to forget about it, move on, it's over, it only makes me want to scream and shot even louder.

Keep up the good work TIA. You know what the numbers are telling you is true. We have the facts, figures and logic. All the zombies have is their blind faith.

[Selatius]

31. I'm sorry, but the facts didn't help us Tues. night

We know all the shit Bush pulled. The facts were on our side, yet we still lost. The facts are useless when people ignore them and believe the illusion. Illusion thus becomes reality, and the facts before that never existed. They don't call it doublethink for nothing.

[Flammable Materials]

36. Facts, figures and logic don't help ...

... when your candidate abandons you.

I'd be all for fighting to the bitter end if it made a difference. And if Kerry had stuck it out for two fucking weeks, he'd be my hero right now.

Just two fucking weeks, that's all I needed.

Just enough time to count the provisional ballots, and the military ballots, and get a total nationwide count. Then find out where the recounts needed to be done.

I don't ask for much. I just want someone who doesn't throw in the towel before the fight is really over. I respect someone who lost the fight but put his all into it.

Where was my Swift Boat Veteran candidate on Wednesday?

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. I sincerely hope

that he is doing this on purpose. That he knows exactly what he is doing.

It is time for working in the shadows for a few days.

If Kerry hadn't conceded he would have unleashed the Bush attack machine upon us. Bush would have made sure all counting was shut down, by going to the courts.

Kerry gave us time. We have from now until Dec. 18th to build our case and right these wrongs.

However Kerry nor any one else can win this thing alone. We all need to do what we can to fight back and uncover the fraud before it's too late.

[Flammable Materials]

39. I hope to your Invisible Friend that you're right.

I really do.

[Cats Against Frist]

44. I completely agree n/t

[JNelson6563]

33. All lining up to give the boy king blow jobs

apparently with a reverent silence.

:puke:

Julie

[teryang]

34. Democracy is gone, period

It will take a massive military diaster, depression, or coup to get these criminals out of power.

[lateo]

35. Yep, something is up alright...

But it is just the same old same old of the Dems rolling over to have their belly patted by the Republicans.

[DoYouEverWonder]

40. They haven't rolled over yet

they have disappeared. They have until Dec. 18th to redeem themselves.

[TahitiNut]

41. So, the Washington Gonnorheals are quiet while the ...

... Hairlip Globerotters are high-fiving? So, what else is new?

[KWBS]

42. From a Republican that backed Kerry - Edwards

In 1980 the South had 26 Democratic Senators, today it has 4. If you look at the national "red versus blue" map at both State and County level it is not hard to see that the DNC has become very isolated from the mainstream of this nation.

2 to 1 Americans classify themselves as conservatives and many moderates vote to the right, not the left on many issues.

Bush has one Achilles Heel that will bring him down, take the wind out of his Imperial Sails and that is 9-11.

I was part of the 9-11 Confronting the Evidence in NYC this year. I was part of the criminal complaint that was delivered to Eliot Spitzer on October 28, 2004.

Over 55 million voted against and many of those voters were ecumenical Christians you people are blindly bashing. They were Conservative Republicans and Libertarians that crossed over to try to stop the Bush Junta and the fascism that is represents.

Right here in Arkansas - two key counties that NEVER vote REP did vote Republican this year. Jefferson and Nevada counties and there were others.

The problem with DNC is DNC and that it represents the fringe left and that is NOT America folks. 2 to 1 says this nation is a conservative nation and one that puts certain values front and center every time.

www.karlschwarz.com

http://www.reopen911.org/petition.php

http://www.justicefor911.org /

All of this talk about running Hillary Clinton in 2008. The RNC has been ready to destroy her since 1994. The strategy that took the House and Senate away from Clinton was designed and largely financed by me. Again, run Hillary, rash into the side of the mountain. They are just waiting for another stupid DNC move.

I took a stand for America, freedom, a turning away from Imperialism and fascism. I have received hundreds of emails from Dems asking what to do now. Frankly, DNC is not "resuscitate-able" in its current form. Lest no one noticed, Bush now controls a stronger US Senate and that is more frightening than him being there for 4 more years.

Every person that voted against Bush should be on those petitions linked above.

It is the only hope you have to stopping Bush, and I am the only Republican of the 100 original names on the petition.

If you have not done so, go to my website under Articles and read the DEMAND LETTER that I sent to Bush September 30, 2004 about 7 hours before the first debate and THEN - get this CLEARLY INTO YOUR HEADS -

that DEMAND LETTER was sent to DNC and Kerry too and they did not use it in the debates to evicerate Bush. CONSIDER THAT!

Both sides of the aisle are covering up 9-11 folks, who did it, who is profiting from it and they are AMERICANS.

Ashcroft was forced to resign due to that letter and I was advised from DC yesterday to NOT accept that as the sacrificial offering and let the rest of the DOERS OF 9-11 OFF THE HOOK!

Wake up Dems.

Karl

[Hubert Flottz]

47. What should we believe in now Karl?

My faith in the American people's good sense to do the right thing for this country, is CRUSHED! That was my last best hope to stop the New World Order! Is everything lost now?

[liberalpress]

48. See, herre's the thing...

I live in a red state. I understand their thinking. If you had incontrovertible proof that W was sleeping with a live girl, a dead boy, a sheep and his mother, if laura testified to it court, if video of it was run of Fox news... RIGHT WINGERS WOULD NOT BELIEVE IT. All of that information would have been faked by "homos and activist judges"

[Onlooker]

49. You should post this in its own thread /eom

[demwing]

58. Ashcroft is simply making way

for an appointment to the SCOTUS

[ollie3]

50. We must overcome

I don't have any illusions that we can reverse the fraud that apparently happened in this election. We can and should collect all the hard evidence that is possible. One of the problems with this paper-less thing is that it is hard to prove fraud, impossible for a meaningful recount, etc. So, unless someone comes forward or something of that order, I doubt very much if we can actually reverse the election.

However, we MUST stop paper-less machines from EVER being used again! We MUST gather our evidence to show the doubts (mild word) that have been raised. If we fail in this endeavor, it is quite possible that our democracy is over.

After 2000, all the focus was on hanging chads. So perhaps the computer voting seemed chad-less. Where I vote in MN, they have a paper ballot that you connect spots with a felt tip marker. No hanging chads. The ballots are counted by machines. There is a physical ballot there that can be recounted by hand if need be. Quick tabulation...verifiable results....no hanging chads. What could be more obvious?

We were warned about these paperless machines before the election. Nothing was done to stop them. If we don't act, we will see MORE of these machines and maybe even an elimination of exit polling. AT this point, elections will be merely an illusion. We cannot allow this to happen. Surely, we can appeal to both parties to find a system of vote counting that ensures accurate vote counting. This should not be a partisan issue. I'm afraid it is too late for 2004, but we can look towards 2006 and focus all our energies into eliminating paperless voting. We MUST prevail in this. Or it doesn't really matter who we nominate in future years.

[bluedog]

51. know what?

I think the Democratic people should REFUSE to go on talk shows........plain and simple.......we work behind the scenes and in private for a year.........we need not give our plans away for the media to immediately tear apart..........without one of our members going on the shows this would have repigs arguing with each other.........what do you think about this?

[DoBotherMe]

59. I think that would work

Every time JK was scheduled to appear on any show, the viewing number skyrocketed. I think the democrats should stay off the tube. Randy Rhodes says if we do that, the wingers will light in to each other.

[DemocracyInaction]

53. Yep--it's the same quiet we heard after the Supremes appointed

Bush and it lasts for the next four years. Get use to it.

[jackstraw45]

54. It's called RESUME WRITING

Many folks are now unemployed.

It's over from their vantage point.

It's OUR fight to carry on.

[Nederland]

55. Wrong

Exit polls DO lie. You just don't get it.

[bones_7672]

56. It's hard to talk while you are licking your wounds. n/t

[txindy]

60. Yes, the silence is deafening. Sharpton & Jackson are not quiet by nature

So, my question is, why aren't Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, to name only two, not screaming bloody murder about the massive voter problems in Florida and Ohio? Something is off. Something is up. I don't know what it is or if it will indeed change anything, but something is going on.

Remember, it's not over until the fat electoral collegians sing. ;)

[WI_DEM]

62. Could it be that they are quiet because they never stand up to Bush?