Don't Forget That 62% Of Americans Favor Civil Unions Or Gay Marriages

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Exit poll data

Support civil unions 35%


Support gay marriage 27%


Oppose both 37%


We are never going to get the homophobe vote so why bother .... Our goal is to get the 62% who support gay marriage and/ or civil unions...


Kerry got 48% of the vote and the asshat got 51% of the vote... That means that the asshat got votes from folks who supported gay marriage and or civil unions...


What do we need to do about this?

We need to make these homophobes look as vile as the racists in the south who blew up black churches, castrated black men , and unleashed police dogs on protesting little girls....

Or if you will we need to make these homophobes look as vile as the cretins who crucified Matthew Sheppard who just by the way had one foot in the closet....

We need to provoke these haters to extremes and then watch the Pugs suffer from the blowback...

[mondo joe]

1. I agree, And I'd like the dems to take a stand.

I fully support same sex marriage.

I CAN and WOULD support a party that didn't - if it provided SOMETHING. That something being civil unions.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Of Course...

But the overarching point is we need to provoke the fundies until doing stupid and violent things that will reflect poorly on the party they support...


I'm not looking for martyrs but these Fundies can be pushed to do stupid things....

[mondo joe]

3. And I think taking a stand on civil unions is part of that.

When fundies demand NO RECOGNITION they look bad.

When they say a gay partner should have no right to visit their partner in the hospital they look bad.

Stick to some core basic rights - the ones MOST Americans agree on, and let them show what vile pigs they are.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Exactly...

When fundies call gays queers or faggots they look bad too....


The pugs say nice things about blacks not so much because they think they can get black votes but because they don't want to alienate moderate whites...

A moderate white man or woman doesn't want to be associated with a bucnch of racists...


We need to provoke the fundies into blatant gay bashing so it will alienate moderates...

[donco6]

17. WAIT A MINUTE!

We need to provoke the fundies into blatant gay bashing so it will alienate moderates...

People, these people being "bashed" are PEOPLE! You're advocating for more Matthew Shepherds in the name of political expediency? You need to check your moral compass - it's swinging wildly.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. the haters need to be brought out of the closet and isolated....

you don't think Dr. King knew that his non-violent movement would be met with violence...


And even if he didn't expect violence he didn't call off the movement when the violence occurred...

[Mr_Spock]

5. I hate to say it, but that is a good idea

They are susceptible to suggestion AND that evil party in power has been playing US for fools by manipulating the media for years. It HAS to be part of the NEW STRATEGY.

Glad to see you posting here - I remember election night and it was bad here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. It Was Worse Than Bad Election Night...

Those exit polls falsely raised everybody's hopes...


I told my 86 year old mom not to worry because it was in the bag...

She was disappointed as was everybody who saw those polls...

[donco6]

13. Whoa.

So once they start firebombing gay bars, people will listen? Kinda tough on the poor sucks who are in the bar, ain't it?

I go to gay bars. So when I die in a fiery explosion, you think that will spur the nation on to compassion for gays and lesbians? I doubt it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. I Am A Non Violent Person ...

Except in self defense...


I am expecting mostly rhetorical violence....


How do you suggest we draw out the haters?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. It wasn't my intention to offend you...

It has nothing to do with having straight folks feel sorry for gay folks...

Bush is having his cake and eating it too....


He's getting the vote of the haters but he's also getting the vote from many tolerant people...

The tolerant crowd is the majority... We need to separate Bush from them....

[JI7]

6. start working to get civil unions passed in various states

we already have it in a few states. but the goal should be to get civil unions everywhere.

and at this point as you say the right wing bigots will be exposed as the hateful type they are rather than their claim they are about preserving family values.

[geek tragedy]

8. We need to DEMONIZE these people. Demonize Oklahoma.

Demonize Mississippi. Make people in places like Missouri ashamed to be associated with such bigotry.

[mondo joe]

9. No! Don't demonize STATES. Demonize ATTITUDES.

I think that's a horrible idea.

We need to promite civil unions and let the bigots expose themselves.

[geek tragedy]

11. Certain states are justly stigmatized as backwards, illiterate and bigoted

People in Missouri and Ohio should be embarrassed to be compared to people from Mississippi. I sure as hell would be.

[mondo joe]

14. You're wrong.

I agree some states are predominantly vile, you have to give people the option to NOT be.

[geek tragedy]

20. We should strongly encourage good people to move to more

civilized states. People should be ashamed to be from Mississippi. They should be humiliated for being associated with Oklahoma.

[mondo joe]

22. Why move? Why not fix the states they're IN?

[geek tragedy]

24. Because those states are fucking hopeless, always have been, and

always will be.

There is no hope that Mississippi will ever be anything but a backwards cesspool of ignorance and hate.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Demonize The Hater Not The State He Comes From (nt)

[geek tragedy]

15. Those states are full of haters. It's open season on them as far as I'm

concerned.

Mississippi is never going to be anything but a threat to progressive ideas. Why not call a spade a spade?

[Freddie Stubbs]

10. Yes, but there is also the question of intensity

Do those who support gay marriage support it as strongly as those who oppose it? Enough to trump other election issues?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. Single Issue Moral Value Voters...

Were 20% of the electorate of which Bush got 78%...

That's 16%....


Bush can have em....

Obviously he got a lot more votes than that...


Our challenge is to identify, isolate, and demonize the haters and make them a millstone around the "compassionate conservatives" neck...

[theboss]

16. The problem was never the issue

We are going to eventually win on the issue. The problem on Tuesday was a reaction to the mantra of "activist judges pushing gay marriage on us" blah, blah, blah.

[KWBS]

19. From a Republican that backed Kerry - Edwards

In 1980 the South had 26 Democratic Senators, today it has 4. If you look at the national "red versus blue" map at both State and County level it is not hard to see that the DNC has become very isolated from the mainstream of this nation.

2 to 1 Americans classify themselves as conservatives and many moderates vote to the right, not the left on many issues.

Bush has one Achilles Heel that will bring him down, take the wind out of his Imperial Sails and that is 9-11.

I was part of the 9-11 Confronting the Evidence in NYC this year. I was part of the criminal complaint that was delivered to Eliot Spitzer on October 28, 2004.

Over 55 million voted against and many of those voters were ecumenical Christians you people are blindly bashing. They were Conservative Republicans and Libertarians that crossed over to try to stop the Bush Junta and the fascism that is represents.

Right here in Arkansas - two key counties that NEVER vote REP did vote Republican this year. Jefferson and Nevada counties and there were others.

The problem with DNC is DNC and that it represents the fringe left and that is NOT America folks. 2 to 1 says this nation is a conservative nation and one that puts certain values front and center every time.

www.karlschwarz.com

http://www.reopen911.org/petition.php

http://www.justicefor911.org /

All of this talk about running Hillary Clinton in 2008. The RNC has been ready to destroy her since 1994. The strategy that took the House and Senate away from Clinton was designed and largely financed by me. Again, run Hillary, rash into the side of the mountain. They are just waiting for another stupid DNC move.

I took a stand for America, freedom, a turning away from Imperialism and fascism. I have received hundreds of emails from Dems asking what to do now. Frankly, DNC is not "resuscitate-able" in its current form. Lest no one noticed, Bush now controls a stronger US Senate and that is more frightening than him being there for 4 more years.

Every person that voted against Bush should be on those petitions linked above.

It is the only hope you have to stopping Bush, and I am the only Republican of the 100 original names on the petition.

If you have not done so, go to my website under Articles and read the DEMAND LETTER that I sent to Bush September 30, 2004 about 7 hours before the first debate and THEN - get this CLEARLY INTO YOUR HEADS -

that DEMAND LETTER was sent to DNC and Kerry too and they did not use it in the debates to evicerate Bush. CONSIDER THAT!

Both sides of the aisle are covering up 9-11 folks, who did it, who is profiting from it and they are AMERICANS.

Ashcroft was forced to resign due to that letter and I was advised from DC yesterday to NOT accept that as the sacrificial offering and let the rest of the DOERS OF 9-11 OFF THE HOOK!

Wake up Dems.

Karl

[arwalden]

21. (dupe)

[mondo joe]

25. You shouldn't settle. But we should use this as a wedge issue.

I don't want you to settle. I don't want to settle either.

But I'm willing to use this as a wedge issue.

And I will sure the hell take a civil union over being wholly disenfranchised.

[arwalden]

23. But I Don't Want "Civil Union"... I Want A MARRIAGE!!

Why should I settle for "separate-but-equal"... everyone knows that separate but equal is never equal. The question here is equality and fairness.

Like it or not, the word marriage is not only a religious institution, but a LEGAL one as well. --- Fuck the Christians who are offended and feel that that their holy sacrament of marriage isn't intended for same-sex couples! Fuck 'em! That's fine... don't marry us! Refuse to perform the ceremony! Fine! Kick us out of your churches... fine! Who cares?

Although I'm pleased that there's some measurable support for gay families... it's just not right to suggest that we settle for something less simply because it's only slightly better than what we have now.

I'm not going to settle for less.

-- Allen

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. I Empathize With You...

and I see both sides of the argument...

The Dems desperately need to win a few elections...

We are in worse shape than at any time since the Great Depression that created a realignment in our favor...

[geek tragedy]

29. I agree with you. However, politics is the art of the possible.

And gay marriage, as opposed to civil unions, has to be a state by state affair.

Let's work on making the blue states welcoming of gay marriage, then we can worry about Jesusland.