We should have attacked bush's christianity

[Francine Frensky]

Seriously. If karl rove was a dem, that's what he would have done.

It's the flip of the swifties -- and no, it wouldn't have changed everybody's minds, but it would have confused a few.

Cast doubt by showing some of his comments, video footage of that wide grin he has when he talks about "bloodshed" or that creepy glimmer in his eye in 2000 when he bragged about executions in Texas... then there's all the anti-christian things he has done, such as ignoring the poor for four years, cutting the afterschool programs, doing nothing about healthcare for the poor... and of course, starting an unprovoked war "of choice", how abortions rose during his four years (even though they had declined in the 90's)... we could have had a whole series of ads, from "Concerned Christians" or something like that....

[fishface]

1. And his supposed 'leadership' on the war on terror.

Kerry allowed him to beat that shit to death without once serving up all the shit that should have made Bush vulnerable.

[KharmaTrain]

2. OK...That's The Plan in 2008...Piss Christians Off More...

This place gets more sublime by the moment.

[Kammer]

4. Sigh

Doesn't it though..

[Francine Frensky]

6. Why not??? Their plan is to piss liberals off more...

They've decided to use a divide and conquer strategy, then screw and offend liberals as often as possible....

speaking as a christian, I think this is something that would work.

[KharmaTrain]

9. And It's Working Very Nicely

Keep up the fine work.

[goclark]

11. Won't piss me off at all

I am Christian and I am deeply troubled that they have
stepped all over Jesus.

Bush is not my idea, in any way of a Christian.

I know hundreds of Christians that voted for Kerry.

[KharmaTrain]

12. 60% said different than you

I'm Jewish...I won't even go into the faith thing.

Just turn on a Christian radio station and listen to what's said about Democratic values on there...or read between the lines. This was a message that was drilled in millions of heads on countless Sundays and 24/7 on hundreds of radio stations. We don't see it since their world is so alien than ours. But effective it was.

I saw many Christians on here who were incredulous how someone could vote for Repugnicans...and so on...but we're dealing with power politics here...a well organized, well-oiled machine that is getting strong and more dangerous.

Iritate them further at your own peril. We need to establish alternative voice.

[goclark]

21. Are you saying that 60% think he is Christian?

That part may be right,they think because he told them so.

Not by his deeds, he is not Christian.

They need to be gently shown this, they don't know.

I have a friend,deeply religious, in August she told me that there was no difference between the two candidates. Yesterday she called crying that Bush won.

I wanted to curse her out but I was cool. I just let her talk. She was saying Bush will kill our children. What changed her from August to November - I think she finally started to learn.
I did not argue with her in August or after the election. I think they voted for Kerry however.

Do I think we need to take a different approach for those Christians that are isolated in the Red states? Sure!

There main source of news is their church. How do you break into that holy ground? I have no idea how you break into their comfort zone and have them understand what is real in this world.

If they choose to drink kool aid,who am I to tell them they can't drink it?

[KharmaTrain]

23. Fear & Certainty...They Play On Both

Democrats live in greys...Repugnicans and fundies want it black & white...things are safe (even if they aren't) and certain, even if they're lies. These people have been conditioned not to question authority and even the most educated can be held mentally captive by a religious doctrine or dogma that makes them vote or act counter to their own best interests. Kinda like lemmings going off a cliff.

First, we need to start looking ahead and see that whomever the GOOP run they'll do so with a flags and crosses drapped all over them. They'll fabricate the story first, stick to it and when Democrats waiver on their message (which we do) then we're shown as weak and indecissive.

You can't knock the church down, but you can use other voices. There are thousands of public radio stations around the country that could be our voice into small communities...and just like the Christians stations, to create a message they can relate to that starts to really express the core values we all share...TRUE compassion, fairness, equality and honest. We can't do it by ridiculing, dismissing or ignoring. We have to start working now in looking at serious grassroots party building if the Democratic party and the many groups that need it more than ever will ever have a voice again.

Cheers!

[Donkeyboy75]

3. Idiotic suicide.

[Francine Frensky]

7. You mean just like attacking Kerry's war record????

It sounds idiotic on paper to say, let's attack the heroism of the guy who fought in Vietnam, to help our candidate who avoided Vietnam. That sounds like suicide.

But it worked.

[sangh0]

31. They're appealing to a different audience

The people we're trying to appeal to are motivated by things other than fear and hatred

[Donkeyboy75]

33. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Faith is a deeply held belief that most Americans can relate to. Military service has not been experience by anywhere near that level.

Just because doing something that is risky or counterintuitive worked once, doesn't mean it's a good policy.

[montana500]

48. it worked becuase of the disgusting media

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

5. Never use the obvious truth....

Find people who knew him back in the day to nudge, nudge, wink, wink that he worships the Devil

Our playbook for the Xtian Right: Repug politician ______

belonged to a Satanist cult in the 70s
casts spells to try to win elections
likes heavy metal music
had an incestuous affair
is gay

etc.

[GreenArrow]

27. none of that would matter

he's born again. He once was lost and now he's found. The Bible itself says that people are always prey to George's type of religiosity.

[QC]

8. Yes, let's encourage the fundamentalists' delusions of persecution.

That's a real winner.

[sonicx]

26. the idea is not to attack Christianity...

just to show that Bush is a poser.

[Touchdown]

10. "Hell, I'd piss on a spark plug, if it'd do any good!"

...the general from Wargames.

We got nothing to lose now. Why play it safe? Rove took a risk with the Swift Boats, and the docs to Rather. Why not? How much more out of power can we get?

[et in Arcadia ego...]

13. Here's a better plan:

Just give up Christianity. The right-wingers own it lock, stock and barrel anyway. You're NEVER going to be religious enough for these kooks.

[QC]

15. The right wingers own the Eiscopalians? The Quakers?

Did they have a special on broad brushes down at the hardware store today?

[et in Arcadia ego...]

20. Quakers=war protesters...

So you know where they stand with the right-wingers. Not familiar with the Episco branch of Xtianity, sorry.

[QC]

22. Quakers are Christians, so it must not be true

that the right controls all Christians.

You might want to put that broad brush away and start dealing with the world that we actually live in.

[et in Arcadia ego...]

30. Let me start with the country we're living in:

The religious right-wing is in control. They're basically defining what it means to be a Christian, and what it means not to be one. That's the real world we live in, and unfortunately that's the country we live in. Sorry, but it's been a hellava week, so forgive me if my paint brush is a little wider than usual. Heck, I may just get a paint sprayer...

[lanparty]

39. Not catholics !!!!

Sorry, but Catholics are an independent thinking lot. If the Pope can't control them, neither can the GOP!!!!

[goclark]

29. You mean give it up as a political issue?

I really am not sure about how to approach this issue.

My initial thought is that our Democrats in the Red States really need to work, work, work to understand where they are coming from.

If I lived in Kansas, next week I would make it a pt. to attend a "born again" church service. How can we know what they are hearing if we don't go and see what their turf is like.

I recall talking to a born again that saw my Kerry button. He asked me why I was voting for Kerry. He told me that Bush was a real Christian.

I called him on it but he stopped me in my tracks. When I told him I was Christian , he asked me was I born again?'

I said,like they say, "Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior! Yes he is!"

Oh, he loved that a lot! He wanted me to validate that I was a "real Christian - born again."

[blm]

14. I agree. Bush is no Christian. He's a fascist aligned with RevMoon.

I encouraged people to attack the whole Christian fauxness of Bush and the so-called Christian leaders like Tim LaHaye. They only USED Christianity to gain and maintain governmental power while governing as fascists.

[Cats Against Frist]

18. I think there have been several creative ideas

I like the idea of the dems trying to dismantle the federal government, causing the GOP to become obstructionists to its own rhetoric -- because that would call the big-government, right-wing authoritarians out for what they are. They've fooled more people into thinking that they're for "small government," than they have promising they'll stop abortion -- I guarantee.

Anyway, no one likes that, and want's to see if we can get Evan Bayh to "talk them into it."

Barring any of that, though -- two things are in order: disillusioning the Christians and getting our own media.

This is serious, and these people aren't fucking around. Creative solutions will be necessary.

[lanparty]

42. DING, DING, DING !!!!

Rev Moon is the achilles heel in the right's claim to be divine.

Bring this up to a right winger and they go BALLISTIC!!! They just LOVE that paper published by a Korean who claims he's the ressurected JESUS!!!!

OK, this is race baiting. But there is NO WAY 90% of those southern evangelicals would EVER accept a Korean Jesus!!!

Pointing out the close ties between Falwell, Bush, Robertson, et al and Moon will turn those people AGAINST the GOP!!!! This is just like Clinton's pressure to "back-off" the Scientoligists caught him flack in the Bible belt*.

Then we need to point out all those "small town papers" pushing the RPI material pushed by Moon!!! Just think, all these good Christian souls are being led around by a Faux Jesus!!! The glowing reviews of Bush are written by hacks at the Washington Times, a newspaper by that cult wacko, mass-wedding given, Jesus pretending slant-eye!!!!

So next time someone talks about how "great" the Times is, remind them who owns it. They bought this when Ted Turner owned CNN. And he didn't even pretend to be Jesus!!!! So push the word and make the buzz!!! The GOP is in league with the fake christ!!!!


*BTW, I REALLY don't like the Scientoligists. They have the #1 mind control program in the nation and the world. Their really EVIL mother-fuckers in my opinion!!!

[pinniped]

16. Those whackos will really think the bible will be banned.

Next time the attacks on their POS candidate will have to be 24/7 and relentless.

[Morning Dew]

17. Bush is really a Christian as much as I was really just elected President

n/t

[mtnsnake]

19. I absolutely agree. The only way you're going to get into these freaks

heads is to show them in simple black and white how their leader is nothing but a lying punk who shares no true Christian values with them and is just putting up a phoney front. No one on our campaign picked up on that or even attempted to turn the tables on this monster, yet their side was making claims about our man constantly.

[lanparty]

43. Yeah ... but ...

... I really think MOST of them are phonies anyway.

There are Christians who talk the talk. Then there are those that walk the walk. And the walkers are few and far in between!!!

[xequals]

24. Agree. "Christians for Truth".

But the Dems we currently have in control of the party don't truly understand the concept of winning. They believe they need to please everyone and offend no one. Majority means more than 50%, not 100%. An electoral majority is all it takes to re-gain power.

[sonicx]

25. i agree. but Kerry shouldn't have done it. A Christian 527 should have...

BUSH
-death penaty extremist
-driving people(mostly children) to poverty
-killing innocent civilians in Iraq
-driving more people to get abortions

This seemed like such an obvious way to attack him...

[dansolo]

28. You are assuming that his followers are "Christian"

Republicans are notoriously hypocritical. They espouse beliefs that they don't follow. George Bush's sins aren't even acknowledged by their beautiful minds.

[Time4Change]

32. Rove

Rove's theory is a simple one. A candidates faults will always come to light, to win an election you must attack the candidates strengths.

That's exactly what he did with the SBV. Instead of Kerry the Purple Heart winner, it was Kerry the anti-american.

We should have attacked Bush's Christianity with the above mentioned inconsistencies.

[seabeyond]

34. i agree. at fundie school that was the first thing i would say

when talking to any of the parents about bush. call him a christian i dont see it. i am certainly not going to use him as an example in christian living. not one adult ever challenged me on it. these are fundie christians

[Native]

35. All I know is what I experienced....

I got sick & tired of hearing "he's a Christian" as the sole reason for voting Bush that I started emailing Sheehey's article on her travels with Bush during his first campaign. It basically depicts him as the hypocrite & opportunist he is. Guess what? It worked every time!

[FizzFuzz]

37. where can I find this article? Please link. n/t

[Road Scholar]

36. It's not too late!

I wish all these "Christian" repugs knew that the chimp didn't even attend church at all except, occasionally, for show.

[democratreformed]

40. THAT does not matter. He opened the door for them to use our own

tax dollars against us. That's exactly what he did. He bought allies by starting "faith based" programs several years ago. From that moment on, the really fundamentalist ones were one his side and had almost four years to pound that loyalty into their congregations.

[lanparty]

44. He did pray a lot early in life ...

... to the porcelain altar!!!!

[democratreformed]

38. It would not have worked.

They were paid ahead of time through "faith-based" programs to believe in and convince their congregations of his Christianity. Don't you see? This has been a four-year plan that came to fruition just like they wanted it to. I swear - I believe that with all my heart. It all started with those "faith-based" programs of his. Suddenly, churches were allowed to partake in the fruits of our taxes. And they paid him back just as planned.

[Obviousman]

41. youre on to something here...

i hope the dnc is taking notes.

[leesa]

45. Damn right. Whenever I came right out and said he was not a Christian, it

made the Fundies around me jump or jerk a little. I knew they weren't sure.

Apparently the only reason they believe he is a Christian is because he posted a declaration of his Christianity on a website and because he says so.

Even though ALL his behavior says otherwise.

[Quixote1818]

46. We should have had a Fringe Christian's group attack him!

National Guard Christians for truth!

[sampsonblk]

47. Kerry should have hired you

You are on the money.

[LiberteToujours]

49. You are so right

Attack their strength. It's so simple and effective, and it works. Rove has proven it over and over. We needed to be dirtier.

[Minimus]

50. Here is my post on how to attack bush's christianity

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1335955&mesg_id=1335955

I gives great sites that "preach" how un-xtian bush really is.

[mzmolly]

51. Actually YES. Brilliant hindsite. Bush's family "found" religion when

Daddy Bush lost to Pat Robertson in the Iowa Primaries. Suddenly the "Loard Jasus" was their bestest friend.

We should have had a 527 "Christians for Christ" :P or ?? speak out againt this admins NON Christian policy.