Leave, Be little cowards. Leave this country?

[nookiemonster]

Find your little refuge? What the hell is wrong with Americans, of the BLUE sense, that want to leave this country??? This is OURs!!! :kick:

If any of you, let me say "pussies", want to leave this country so bad. Do it. I have no time for you.

I spent 6 years looking out for this nation, I'd be damned to turn my back on "her".

We will beat this crap. Who's with me?


:kick:

[LiberalAndProud]

1. Staying. We must fight!

[KharmaTrain]

2. As Blutto Goes Running Out...

When the going get tough...the tough go shopping...

[mmonk]

3. Were people that left

Germany in the 30's before the crap hit the fan cowards?

[Baja Margie]

28. No, those were the intellectuals.

[Warren DeMontague]

4. I had Jewish Relatives who bailed Germany before it got too late.

Pussies? Maybe.

Cowards? Possibly.

Survivors? Definitely.

[tjdee]

13. Bingo!

You're not fighting the fight if you're dead.

I was just talking about this to my sister the other day.
We're both too poor to leave, but if we could we'd seriously consider it.

[Baja Margie]

30. You can come to Baja

commute & work in San Diego. We need more Democrats down here, and housing is cheap.



I'm serious, if any of you are interested, come & check it out, our home is open.

[AnnInLa]

5. Regarding the above 2 posts:

There were too many "Good Germans" (non Jews) who just sat on the sidelines and were afraid to incur the wrath of the Nazis....so, they tacitly agreed to the Nazi goal of genocide. I won't run away, and I won't be silent. I won't be a "Good German." Am exaggerating here, but even if we had to go "underground," I would start preparing to be a mole. Just won't be a Good German. Thank you for starting this thread.

Plato said: "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." This is how we got in the state we are in today...not enough people really interested in this country, just sit back, watch TV, accumulate "stuff", materialism is everything. Get EVERYONE involved, and "superior" will win over "inferior" every time.

[rucky]

6. pussy as in cat...

or slang for vagina?

i hope the tough talk makes you feel manlier... or doglier, as the case may be.

[nookiemonster]

7. It's not tough talk,

just reminding you where your priorities are.

[Deja Q]

8. If they leave, they weaken the rest of us. Selfish pigs, they are. Besides

when * starts going war-crazy, nowhere would be safe - especially if the other counties decide we're a rogue nation and do a * on us. (which I doubt will happen, the UN is a bit pasty these days too.)

[DuaneBidoux]

9. Fuckin' A

[Zookeeper]

10. I'm fine with staying and fighting for my country...

but I am also considering the lives of my children. My oldest son is fourteen (draft?), my kids are very bright and non-conformist....and the thought of living through an economic depression surrounded by the Christian Taliban gives me great pause.

I do believe our economic and political standing in the world is changing profoundly. And the Rethuglican agenda will only benefit the CEO class. BushCo can crow all it wants about some miniscule increase in jobs (compared to what? Last year?) but if those jobs pay seven bucks an hours their claims of economic recovery are as fraudulent as the last two elections.

[chefgirl]

25. Pussies? Selfish Pigs?

I have to echo Zookeepers words on this one. I have no problem staying and fighting for my country, but when the biggest pussy of them all, that fucking prick waving, tough talking, cowardly little fuck in OUR White House reinstates the draft so that he can send my only child to fight for his bullshit war, then he and YOU, nookiemonster, can KISS MY SHINY WHITE ASS!

How DARE you call people pussies for making what would have to be one of the most difficult decisions anyone who loves this country, and what it used to be, could make??

You are completely out of line.

-chef-

P.S. When do you plan to enlist??

[nookiemonster]

31. Obviously, I struck a nerve.

I'm not backing down. Do and go where you wish.

BTW, I've previously enlisted and served. That is the basis of my resolve.

There is no way in hell that I'm gonna leave our troops over there without representation at home.

Flame on!

[chefgirl]

32. Well, good for you

I'm glad you had the CHOICE to enlist and serve and you should be proud of yourself for doing so.

Maybe if you had a child who is almost surely about to be drafted, you might understand why you hit a nerve.

I was married for 14 years to a man who served in the Navy for 22 years, so I am, by NO means, anti-military or necesarrily anti-war.

I had this discussion with my son a while back, and told him that if our country was really in danger, I would be the first one pushing him out the door, but I'll be damned if I will allow his life to be wasted so the fucking idiot in the White House can feel presidential. Fuck that, and fuck anyone who calls me a pussy for doing anything I can do to keep my child safe. When you have children, your first responsibility is to protect them.

If I had the luxury of not having a child to worry about, I would be the first one in the protest line, the first one to take up arms when the time comes, the first one to defend those who DO have children they wish to keep safe from the fascist fucks in this administration who thumb their noses so easily at the rest of the world, and start their wars, knowing that THEIR children will never have to die in one.

I don't have that luxury, though, and if you do, I strongly suggest that when you lay your head down this night, you thank whatever God you pray to, that you are free to pursue your path to patriotic altruism, without having to worry about how it will affect the life of YOUR child.

-chef-

[nookiemonster]

33. I understand, especially the kid part

My child is way too young to even be considered. However, in your case, I can understand the anxiety. Sometimes my compassion is at times, lacking, to say the least.

Look. I know you love your kid and would fight tooth and nail to avoid a cannon fodder scenario. MOST PARENTS WOULD! How about the parents that have kids over in that hellhole now? The troops have no say in where they go, or the circumstances surrounding it, but they GO. This is why we have to be here for them. As a lady that was "married to the Navy", you should understand this better than anyone.

I would hate to see anyone's child swept up in this mess. Unfortunately, it could and will probably happen. I can assure you though that the backlash that this will cause, when it does happen, will eventually lead to coup and upheaval in our government.

In a sense, revolution is a healthy thing. It is long overdue.

[chefgirl]

35. About those other parents

>>How about the parents that have kids over in that hellhole now?<<

I feel for them, from the bottom of my heart, but, the one glaringly obvious difference between those kids and mine, is that every one of them CHOSE to join the military.
If my son told me, when he was old enough, that he wanted to join the military, I would grit my teeth and wish him well.

I love this country with a depth that I cannot describe. I grew up in and around Philadelphia, where patriotism is almost a religion, and was taught at a VERY young age to be eternally grateful for what those courageous, original patriots did so that I could live free.
Every year in school we would visit the Liberty Bell and Betsy Ross' House, and Independence Hall, etc.. I was hooked, even at 6 years old.
I have ALWAYS had a profound reverence for this country and everything it stood for, perfect and imperfect.

Believe me when I tell you, nothing short of my only child's life could ever make me consider leaving this country, but leave it I will, and not look back, if it requires him to lay down his life for an illegal war started by an illegitimate president for an unjust cause.

If THAT is the price I am asked to pay for being able to call myself an American, well then, at that point, America has become nothing but a wisp of memory which has drifted away in the dark of night.

-chef-

[NorthernSpy]

11. Canada is a beautiful country...

... someone else's beautiful country. It's really not just a safehouse for pissed-off Americans.

I propose we stay right here, dig our heels in, and obstruct the little bastards with a vengeance.


We are right. They are wrong. Let our actions reflect this truth, and we'll be well on our way to getting our way.

[nookiemonster]

12. Damn Skippy!

Canadians know, too well, the price of imperial leadership.

They have overcome, and so will we. We have so much at stake.

The hell with obliarchy, or monarchy, the government does what WE TELL THEM TO DO!!!

Hell or not, we have to do what is right for this beloved country of ours.

There is no alternative.

[Bluebear]

14. Playing devil's advocate here if you don't mind.....

It's easy to call someone a 'pussy', but as you have read, there have been umpteen posts about gays on THIS board saying that gays cost this election and "we" should dump "them". If Democrats won't fight for us now, how could we possibly think Democrats would fight for us when we're rounded up?

[huellewig]

37. And this is what pisses me off (the nations homophobia).

If I was gay I would be gone. Fucking Oregon passed the anti-gay measure. I couldn't believe my little liberal oasis would pass this shit. I wouldn't pay paxes in a country that so obviously hates my lifestyle. Let the neighbors to the north benefit from your economic contributions. Fuck.

[bacchant]

15. Q: What's the 2nd most destructive societal construct after religion?

A: NATIONALISM

I'll stay if I want, I'll go if I want.

I pledge allegiance to this first; to be a citizen of planet earth.

[mtnsnake]

16. You're out of line calling people cowards if they talk about leaving this

country. Maybe some people are sick and tired of doing everything in their power to change the country for the better, only to wake up and find it even worse than before. It's gotten to such a low point that many would prefer to live somewhere respectable, rather than being brothers with the rednecks and evangelistic freaks running this country. Right now I'm staying, but it doesn't mean I'm proud of this country.

It's so embarrassing to be a citizen of this country right now that I'd be all for secession in a heartbeat. Don't worry dude, most people can't afford to leave and nobody's giving up as long as we're all stuck here in this putrid mess, so enough with the tough talk.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

17. I've been alienated from this country for a long time, and while I'm

staying for the time being, I reserve the right to pick up and leave for Japan or wherever whenever I damn please.

If the Bushies go all-out fascist and historical experience holds true, "fighting" will just be another means of suicide, because in Nazi Germany, Argentina, Italy, Guatemala, Iran, and other countries that went fascist, the vast majority of the population just went along, and those who dared to fight mostly ended up in torture chambers and/or dead. That's right, even under really bad dictatorships, the majority of the population was delighted to go along with the rulers and in many cases, even applauded the crackdowns against dissidents.

When your country turns that sour, you have only three options: 1) suicidal resistance, 2) leaving the country, or 3) what East Germans called "inner migration," withdrawing from public life altogether.

America is a piece of land on the globe. If it does not follow its own ideals, then it's not really America anymore, but some changeling country that has stolen America's name.

It takes much more courage to leave behind everything you know and settle in a different country, not knowing if you'll ever return, than it does to stay. Today I worked on a Habitat for Humanity house that will go to a family from Ethiopia. Like many of our ancestors, they came to America many years ago because conditions in their own country were intolerable. Should they have stayed and starved or been killed by their political opponents? Americans, of all people, should understand those who choose emigration.

[Cozmosis]

18. Of course I'm staying

I mean, I've got more education to get, but I'll be fighting the whole time.

[Democracy Died 2004]

19. Can you come to my house and call me a pussy?

IM me i'll give you the address.

[nookiemonster]

24. Chill.

Granted, my choice of words was emotionally charged and I could've used alot more tact. I just get really pissed when I hear

"That's it, I'm moving" "All is lost" etc. etc.

The whole situation sucks. Running away is not an option, however.

[DrWeird]

20. Fight's over. We lost.

Fucking sexists.

[Domitan]

21. As much as this Canuck would welcome you guys with open arms,

I think it's better for you guys to stay and fight to take back your country...to stop the theocrat tide!

[Flammable Materials]

22. Fine. But when YOUR kid gets Bush's draft notice in the mail ...

... you'd better stay put.

[jonnyblitz]

23. I'm not going anywhere soon.

I plan to get mouthy.

[St. Jarvitude]

26. I'm staying for the midterm elections, then it's off to Germany

I'm leaving when I turn 18 so I can get out of the shell of what used to be the greatest country in the world and get a fucking education at the same time (for free, too).

I will be fighting the fundies every breath I take until these asswipes are out of power... while I'm here and while I'm gone. You can bet your bottom dollar I'll be voting absentee in every fucking election.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

27. Hell I would be happy just to move to a blue state

anyone want to move to suburban Dallas? We could trade houses maybe? We've got a pretty nice one, who's up for it?

[Baja Margie]

29. We left almost nine

years ago, not for political so much as environmental issues.

Now, my husband still works, he commutes, we pay our taxes and are very much involved in the politics of America. So, with that in mind, one can still move and be involved.

I would also like to say something about the people who left Germany in the 30's. They were not cowards, they were smart, and noone would listen to them. My grandparents were part of that group. During the War, Grandfather worked as an interpreter for the War Department, he was a Language Professor at the University in Berlin, also Jewish.

[okieinpain]

34. not a pussy, but I'd prefer that my two son's not have to die for

bush. sorry.

[depakid]

36. I think the reverse is true

especially if you have kids. If you have the ability to leave- and you don't and you willfully put them through the nightmare of economic decline and social injustice that's going to happen in next 20 years for the sake of your pride- that seems to me to be a pretty cowardly act.

You think it's going to be easy for those of us who're leaving? I have news- it's not. But it is the right thing to do-

[JCMach1]

38. Get residence in a swing state and then leave the country

and just be sure to vote...

Getting out after '02 was the best decision I ever made.

[Obamarama]

39. Before you come to any conclusions, try walking in my shoes...

I am among those thinking of expatriating upon the advent of a second Bush term.

My mother's family left France for America three months before the Nazis occupied France. They saw what was coming and they got out while they could. Aunts and uncles and cousins who stayed? They were all deported to Drancy, Auschwitz or Birkenau. I suppose you would have the inclination to label my grandparents pussies?

I live in a country that feels it must CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION to protect itself from my partner and I and codify us as second class citizens. Moreover were are now being scapegoated as the reason Kerry lost the election on account of the gay marriage issue.

I also live in a country where the separation of church and state is becoming a mere historical artifact and where right-wing Christian doctrine is increasingly shaping policy and legislation.

It is the same bible-thumping lawmakers and theocrats who will soon have control over all three branches of our government and who see me as a vile, dangerous threat to the future of our country.

Before you smugly start barking out and throwing names at people who are considering finding elsewhere something resembling the democracy that is waning in our country, try walking in my shoes.

I can think of no better lyrics to throw back in your smug, naive little face right now than Depeche Mode's lyrics from the song of the same name: Try Walking In My Shoes:

I would tell you about the thing they put me through
The pain I`ve been subjected to
But the Lord himself would blush
The countless feasts laid at my feet
Forbidden fruits for me to eat
But I think your pulse would start to rush

Now I`m not looking for absolution
Forgiveness for the things I do
But before you come to any conclusions
Try walking in my shoes
Try walking in my shoes

You`ll stumble in my footsteps
Keep the same appointments I kept
If you try walking in my shoes
If you try walking in my shoes

Morality would frown upon
Decency look down upon
The scapegoat fate`s made of me
But I promise now, my judge and jurors
My intentions couldn`t have been purer
My case is easy to see

I`m not looking for a clearer conscience
Peace of mind after what I`ve been through
And before we talk of any repentance
Try walking in my shoes
Try walking in my shoes

So, nookiemonster, quite frankly you can stay and fight. I on the other am going to find a new home where I will not be relegated to the second-class citizen dustbin of American society. We've fought for it for the first half of our lives and it hasn't come. With the advent of Bush & Co. II, I have given up hope that it will come in the second half of our lives, so I will seek it in greener pastures elsewhere, thank you very much.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Talk is cheap.

I have no intention of leaving, at least not yet.

However, I am not so wise or all-knowing that I presume to judge other people, their lives, or their decisions.

That's what the right wing does. Think they know better on how everyone else should live their lives. Always ready to second-guess the single mother, the minority, the person with no job.

If someone has had enough with the situation in this country, I totally respect that decision. If someone wants to stay and continue to work for positive change, I respect that as well.

[Moderator]

41. flamebait..locking

.