"Vote for John Kerry and you will go to Hell."

[milkyway]

I was at a party in NYC tonight, and one of the people there has a PhD in religious studies. He's originally from NYC, but now lives in Florida working with religious groups. Politically he is very progressive, very knowledgeable, and very cool.

He told me that he is convinced that millions of people voted for bush, not because they would rather have him as president than Kerry, but because they believed that if they voted for Kerry it would be turning their back on God.

He said he lives and works among these people all the time, and this meme was pushed in the churches. Many people had come to believe that if they voted for John Kerry, they would go to Hell.

Is this a great country, or what?

[JohnKleeb]

1. thats such a shame

because Kerry represents the America I believe in so many ways. Kerry was right on at the DNC when he said I want to hope as Lincoln said that god is not on our side but rather that we are on god's side.

[sonicx]

2. yes, cuz God approves mass murder of civilians...

[AspenRose]

27. There it is

After church today, those of us who voted Kerry were licking our wounds and asking ourselves, "how could people think Bush is MORAL after leading us to WAR in a country that DIDN'T attack us and innocent people are being slaughtered?? How in the world is THAT moral???"

We were depressed....and outnumbered. It was nice to find people in church who didn't check their brains at the door, though.

[JI7]

30. one problem is that many people only look at Gay rights and Abortion right

as being moral issues. it always has to be something to do with sex to be a moral issue for them.

helping those in poverty, without healthcare, without jobs, etc does not matter to them or are not seen as moral issues.

[JI7]

3. this is what i am saying and we have to deal with it

the pattern i noticed from most bush supporters was not that they agreed with him on many policy issues. but that bush was a man of god and kerry was empty of faith and a threat to those who believed in god.

remember the article which said republicans were telling people that kerry was going take away their bibles. there is a certain segment of the population that actually does fall for these things.

the reason bush gained in popular vote was because of these churches and their GOTV effort. they aren't very political in that they pay attention to every single that is going on, but they are very religious. the fact they aren't all that informed means they are easier to manipulate.

[arewenotdemo]

4. Greatest country in the world!!!!

USA! USA! USA! :nuke: USA! USA! USA!
USA! USA! USA! :nuke: USA! USA! USA!
USA! USA! USA! :nuke: USA! USA! USA!
USA! USA! USA! :nuke: USA! USA! USA!
USA! USA! USA! :nuke: USA! USA! USA!

[AntiCoup2K4]

5. And after 8 years of the Bush Criminal Empire and PNAC

(to quote Bad Religion) How Could Hell Be Any Worse??

There's people out there that say I'm no good,
'Cause I don't believe the things that I should,
And when the final conflict comes, I'll be so sorry I did wrong,
And hope and pray that our lord god will think I'm good.

Countries manufacture bombs and guns
To kill your brother for something that he hasn't even done.
Smog is ruining my lungs, but they aren't sorry they've done wrong,
They hide behind their lies that they're helping everyone.

In the end the good will go to heaven up above,
The bad will perish in the depths of hell.
How can hell be any worse when life alone is such a curse?

Fuck Armageddon, this is hell (x3)

We're living in the denoument of the battle's gripping awe,
So what's the use of being good to satisfy them all?

How could hell be any worse? Life alone is such a curse!
Fuck Armageddon, this is hell (x5)

[Zuni]

6. I used to live next door to some very nice Pro-Lifers

and were in no way right wing, but they were very afraid to vote for anyone who supported abortion.
Honestly. I liked them alot, they were really the nicest people but were very christian.(not that there is anything wrong with that)

[chimp chump]

22. Ah.

"I used to live next door to some very nice Pro-Lifers and were in no way right wing, but they were very afraid to vote for anyone who supported abortion."

Bingo!

You get it. If they vote pro-choice, they feel they are personally responsible for abortion, morally almost the same thing as if they had had an abortion themselves.

I know lots of people who hold this view. Actually, I assume any conservative Christian will always hold this view.

[Zuni]

28. These people were very nice and great neighbors

They would bend over backwards to help out a neighbor. They weren't preachy either. They were more the live and let live type, kind of hippyish in a way but more clean cut.
They had a really great Beagle named Scooter too. It was an awesome dog. When I was younger and coming home from the bustop, when Scooter saw me in the distance he would howl and howl until I came over and rubbed him behind the ears.

[DemExpat]

7. I can certainly imagine that this is true....

what a sad state of affairs in such a 'modern', super-power country...

:nuke:

DemEx

[JI7]

8. when you look at how many don't believe in evolution

and how many believe the bible is LITERALLY true, it's not so surprising.

[cybildisobedience]

9. I actually heard about three otherwise sensible peopl already today.

They were told that all the good work they did honoring God would be wiped out by this one vote and they would be held accountable for it on Judgement Day.
They literally were frightened to death by priests and ministers and told that a vote for Kerry was akin to voting for Satan.

I do think a huge part of the trending-toward-Kerry electorate was influenced by these vile and deceitful tactics.
Also, they cheated, but that's a given.

[thinkingwoman]

10. isn't this the same tactics the mullahs use?

Seriously, don't the religious leaders in Iran and similar places pick the government leaders and endorse them to their followers who then vote accordingly?

[Krupskaya]

11. On NPR yesterday...

They spoke with a minister in an Osceola, Florida, congregation.

The lead-in talked about how in the last election, he distributed the Christian Coalition's scorecard after services.

HELLLLOOOOOO, NPR! You might want to mention that that's something that can take away a church's nonprofit tax label. HELLLLOOOOOOO!

[dbt]

12. Guess what? I voted for Kerry and WENT to hell!

The good news is that there are enough fiddlers down here for a HUMONGOUS hoedown! Dance, suckers..

:evilgrin:
dbt

[wishlist]

13. This exact same strategy worked against Gore in the South in 2000

No question millions of voters felt they would be committing a grave sin by voting for Gore and now for Kerry. The conservative churches in the South handed out flyers both in 2000 and this year encouraging them to vote and listed all of the Repub candidates (as well as conservative candidates in nonpartisan races such as judges)

I saw these flyers all over the place and very prominently in the hands of both Dems and Repubs at the polls.

Also, millions of Southern Protestants either do not know or do not believe that Catholics are Christians. The ignorance and prejudice against Catholics has been stunning to me for years since I (raised Catholic in the North) moved to the South. I was asked by several 'educated' professional Southern Protestant friends if Catholics are Christians because these Democratic friends encountered so many relatives, friends and neighbors who said they could not vote for Kerry because he is a Catholic and not Christian!

[seabeyond]

14. last spring the head of baptist convention called in ministers

and told them to tell the congregation that this election mattered and jesus was watching. when you faced jesus he would go back to this election to see how you vote. he would decide from your vote if you would be going to heaven

documented.

this si when i saw my church school adn its minister shifting in their aggressiveness with politics and followers

[Hippo_Tron]

33. I'd tell my minister...

"Gee, I guess I'd better make sure to vote for John Kerry if I want to get into heaven."

[Robert Oak]

15. heard another reason "they didn't want to be unpatriotic"

Propaganda machine was on full tilt this season.

"It's the propaganda stupid".

[funky_bug]

16. You are so correct!

My husband and I went to see Lewis Black last night, which spawned yet another political conversation over coffee at 1am.

I used to be one of the evangelicals before I threw hypocrasy to the wind. I know their mindset and you are very on-target with your assessment.

See, they DO care about the war in Iraq, and they DO care about the deficit, lost jobs, economy, etc...

BUT they believe that if they stay true to the laws of their God (as they are defined for them) ie, pro-life, anti-gays, then God will protect them and work out the rest. However, if they vote for a candidate that has been defined as "pro-abortion, pro-gays" then God will lift his veil of protection not only from them, but from the country as well (should the candidate win).

It was a losing battle from the get-go, and we were all to blind to see it. Rove tapped into the fears of a God-fearing (and ill-informed) people, and he did it right under our noses. We actually thought the atrocities of the Bush administration would be enough to turn the tide.

To prove my point, I called my evangelical buddy today and said, "Listen, remember when you said that being pro-Kerry was the same as being pro-abortion, pro-gay? Well, does being pro-Bush mean being pro-war, pro-deficit?" Her response was, that she isn't pro-Bush, she's pro-God, and she intends on "honoring Him with her vote, and trusting Him to protect the soldiers and our nation."

See, we were hoodwinked. We have four years to take a page from the Clinton-book and redefine our party by taking their issues away from them and off the table. We'd better heed the warning, or we'll never see democracy in America again.

[AspenRose]

29. Spot on

That hit the nail on the head.

[Fleshdancer]

17. I'll take hell over a President who lies to me in order to bomb others

I think the PhD guy is correct. Sad, isn't it? Makes me very afraid of their God.

[JI7]

24. yeah

i think a lot of these people are so hung up on this hell thing. they don't care about what goes on in this world as far as war, economy etc is concerned. they think as long as they oppose gay rights , abortion that they will go to heaven.

[Cha]

18. Fucker bush didn't even go to church

until the last month before election.

You know what this says to me..just as I suspected?

That most churches are cults!

[SammyWinstonJack]

19. One more reason for me to HATE religion!

So we all suffer because of their invisible sky person paranoia! That's just great! :grr:

[demgrrrll]

20. I was listening to fundie radio in the car and they were talking about

how Bush "owed" them because they sent pastors to criss cross the state of Ohio to get the message out. I blame the media for not letting people know and to let this fly under the radar.

[Triana]

21. We did vote for Kerry and now we are going to Hell...

...but NOT because of John Kerry!

[Glenda]

26. I feel like I'm in Hell already.

[pdx_prog]

23. See ya'll in hell then....

:p

[Warren DeMontague]

25. If you voted for Kerry but Diebold switched your vote to Bush...

...Then what happens?

[VOX]

31. A fundie would say that since you intended to vote for Kerry/Satan...

Then you voted for him, no matter what any man-made machine did afterward. It's similar to the belief that the lust in your heart is as sinful as the sex act itself. (And how much fun is that?)

So, reserve a hot rock in Hell for me, will you, impeachdubya? (Unless I get there first, in which case I'll save you a spot!)

Ouch! :evilgrin:

[Warren DeMontague]

35. Oh yeah. I've got a whole row reserved, I think.

"may be going to hell in a bucket,
but at least I'm enjoying the ride!"

:party:

[bobbieinok]

32. worked in OK for 10+years in mostly religious right environment

What I learned.....

*if candidate SAYS he/she is 'born again', then everyone knows that one agrees with you....so that's the one you vote for

*you don't bother to check anything else.....you vote solely on whether or not the candidate SAYS OFTEN AND LOUDLY that he/she is 'born again'

*on the radio, you only listen to those who frequently claim to be religious and BOLDLY STAND UP FOR RELIGIOUS VALUES......mostly it's CHRISTIAN, but Savage is ok because he talks a lot about religious values

&you believe and only listen to those who constantly state that 'born again christians' are in the minority and are constantly being attacked by liberals---liberal culture, liberal media, liberal churches, etc

[missouri dem]

34. Last Monday I was was working at the local Democratic Headquarters

and a Gentleman came in who wanted some Kerry signs and bumper stickers. He attended church at a small country Babtist Church and the preacher had told the congregation that if they voted for Kerry they would go to Hell. Not implyed it, he came right out and said it.

The gentleman said that the congregation lost 6 families over the sermon, two of which were republicians.