My message to McAuliffe, Kerry, Clintons, Carville, DU, dems:

[Bread and Circus]

Develop a damn relationship (whatever you think it needs to be)
with rural areas for Christ's sake.

_________________

On edit, I'm adding this as a poster below requested my ideas:

Much of the following are generalizations and assumptions
by me. I doctor in county of 20,000 voters that went
this time 61% for Bush. I have experience living and working
in San Francisco, Lansing, MI, rural maine, and I am back
in my hometown rural community in Michigan. My points of view
come from the comparison and contrast of these experiences.

1.) Advertise in local newspapers. It's extremely cheap to
do. You can get near 100% exposure in a local paper like mine.

2.) Advertise on local billboards. Even Bush Cheney did that
in my county of only 20,000 voters.

3.) Get on local radio stations. In my town, we have two. Most
people that vote listen to those two. They are extremely cheap
to advertise on.

4.) Develop a relationship w/ churches or foster an "outside
of the party" push to get more progressive people to start/run
church's congregations. Socially, people are organized by
"what church do YOU go to".

5.) Work the natural constituencies better: farmers and public
school teachers.

6.) Work avidly to dispell the notion that Dems want to "get
rid of hunting and sporting guns". The Dems need to do more.

7.) Embrace sport hunting and tie this to eco-concerns more.
Hunters understand that a healthy environment is important to
their sport. Consider even championing setting aside more public
land for hunting/recreational activities that they like.

8.) Talk about religion but not in terms of scapegoating gays,
celebrating homophobia. Talk about the real moral issues
surrounding corporate greed and war. There's a whole bunch of
Pro-Christ-teaching that undermines the planks of the Republican
Party platform.

9.) Get "moral", honest, straightforward candidates to run. Rural
people "want someone they can trust" on a gut level. Is that
really too much to ask for? It would go a long way if they
were only married once and have a pattern of meaning what they
say and saying what they mean. It may sound hokey but it's important
to the rural voter.

10.) Run candidates that have military service in their resume.
A lot of soldiers and soldiers families are rural white voters.
Both symbolically and realistically, we can "represent them more"
by have similar experience. Kerry would have done better if his
campaigned had challenged the SBVT smear better. Clark would have
been and even better candidate.

--- I'd like to clarify that the candidates don't need to
be white, I am just trying to characterize the rural
voter and in understaning them better, represtent them
more. The whole thrust of this post is to have the dems
engage rural voters on what they really care about so
we don't have to compromise on equal rights issues for
gays, people of color, women and so we don't have to
compromise on freedoms protected by the constitution.

11.) Actually deal w/ local "Democrat Orginizations" - We have
one here and it even used to have a "downtown" office front. It's
withered and we are now having meetings in a local church. Even
though 7000+ people in the county voted for Kerry this time around,
they get like maybe 8 people to the meetings and they are really
unorganized. Many Dems here are so bullied and cowed by the
Republicans, we don't even speak out, we don't even know who each
other are. If Dems on high were to help us, we could more effectively
organize, turn out the vote and sway others that we work and
interact with.

12.) Work actively to bring back good jobs to rural voters. Our
town is in decline, property values are down, Jobs are Nafta'ing
to Mexico (and the local workers go down to Mexico to train the
folks taking back their jobs). If the dems are working on this,
you can't really palpably feel it. It doesn't help that the
guy who signed nafta into law was a Democrat.

13.) Work change the food system in this country. Farmers are
on the brink all the time and could make a lot more if they
could market effectively directly to the consumer. However, the
system is gamed so that they get 19cents for a gallon of
milk even though you pa $2.69. The middle man gets the food dollar,
not the farmer. Work ostensibly as a party to tie agriculture,
farming, organics, economics, back to the local farmers/families
and local retailers. Right now, I have a family of patients that
owns the local grocery store that is up against a Kroger chain
and now a Super Walmart. I many, many farmers up against Mosanto
and the agriculture giants living from milk check to milk check.
These folks would consider a Democrat if a Democrat could help
them cut Walmart and Mosanto out of the loop.

I'll stop there for now.

Any other Rural Red DU'ers got other ideas?

[ulysses]

1. fair enough

but what are your ideas on how?

[JI7]

2. John Breaux for DNC Chair

[ulysses]

3. which would do what?

(besides keeping us on the DLC trail, which has helped us make sooo many inroads to rural America already...)

[deminflorida]

5. Howard Dean...

Governor of a Vermont, a Farm State...conservative in approach to government...excellent fundraiser.

There's your DLC leader right there.

[Bread and Circus]

8. I agree and that's who I want: a spirited fighter and motivater.

[The Flaming Red Head]

10. NOT, NOT, NOT

NOT!

[Leilani]

39. John Breaux is in line for one of the highest paying

lobbyist jobs in town.

That's why he left the Senate.

[Bread and Circus]

4. See original post, I updated it to add constructive ideas.

[ulysses]

9. thanks - some excellent points

Especially this:

8.) Talk about religion but not in terms of scapegoating gays,
celebrating homophobia. Talk about the real moral issues
surrounding corporate greed and war. There's a whole bunch of
Pro-Christ-teaching that undermines the planks of the Republican
Party platform.

:thumbsup:

[Bread and Circus]

11. Sermon on the mount?

I'm not a bible expert so forgive me if I am wrong.

[ulysses]

13. there's definitely a great deal there

that should resonate, beginning with "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."

Also, "Whatever you do to the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you do it to me." Kerry used that last month, actually.

[MsTryska]

20. I agree with this too!

I am partial to comparing the republicans to the moneylenders in the temple right now, and liberals out there preaching like John The Baptist, but not to convert anyone.....just getting the word out in a hostile atmosphere.

Speaking about Jesus working on the behalf of the poor (kicking the moneylenders out), and the persecuted (le tthose who cast the first stone, the leper colony) and how far we've come from true Christian Values, and how much closer we are to the Romans and their persecution of a man who was jsut trying to make the world a better place for the poor and disenfranchised.

[evilqueen]

52. Just Christians?

America is a melting pot. Don't limit yourselves to Christianity. Something like 93.7% of the Muslim community voted for Kerry. That doesn't mean they want to be ignored. There are lots of other religions out there too.

The "heartland" of America (Kansas, Missouri, etc.) is also home to some of the largest Renaissance Festivals in the United States. That's a whole lot of pagans and interested others.

Don't get caught into the trap of trying to grab hold of the Republican coattails and their Christian outreach... sure, do your part, but don't limit yourselves to just that.

[meow2u3]

6. Work to change affirmative action

Change the affirmative action program to one based on economic class: income and assets (or the lack therof). Low-income whites, especially from rural areas, perceive the current affirmative action system as discriminatory against white men; therefore, they feel cheated out of a chance to lift themselves and their families out of poverty, even though they work very hard.

[Bread and Circus]

7. You know, I grew up on AFDC and food stamps but when I was...

in college, rare was the "scholarship" program or AA program
targeted for me. It would of helped, so I think politically
you are correct.

However, I think historically blacks have been
so entirely shit on and downtrodden that I think it's just fine
that we as a society work to help them especially.

But discussing class issues as you mention and getting some parity
for all people of disadvantaged backgrounds would make political
hay and be the right thing to do.

[Hippo_Tron]

28. My somewhat conservative friend had that idea, actually...

He said that AA would be fine if it didn't discriminate based on race. He thinks that it should be soley based on economic class.

[The Flaming Red Head]

12. I don't have health insurance and need doctor

can I come see you?

[Bread and Circus]

14. Support Local Hospitals - they are huge employers and infuse the local

economies w/ millions and millions of dollars.

My local hospital has been working for 2 years to get an on site
MRI to make money and better serve our patients but we needed
our congressmen to make it happen. At hospital staff meetings,
we knew "who was on our side" when the elected officials helped
us get the CMN pushed through.

Again, it's about knowlege of rural needs, developing a relationship,
and ultimately representation.

Right now, rural voters don't know "how the Dems represent them" and
that's what needs to change.

[The Flaming Red Head]

18. I can't even afford to go to a hospital (rural or otherwise)

An MRI where I live cost 5 thousand dollars. I know a lot of rural people who have no health insurance and never go to the doctor and I know more than a few urban HIV (in Breaux's home state) patients that get no treatment at all.

[Bread and Circus]

23. I know. Yours is a very big problem and relevant in the big picture

[robbedvoter]

15. here's Norquist message to you all:

Democrats are like castrated animals
As soon as they get used to their permanent minority status they'll start behaving themselves and not go around peeing on the furniture and acting up.
Grover Norquist -NOW, Nov 5 2004

[Bread and Circus]

16. My friend, I heard that too but what, respectfully, what are you saying?

[AllyCat]

42. Robbed, you've got to be kidding...

...when did he spout this crap?

WKC08 Girl!!:thumbsup:

[Skidmore]

17. Thank you, sir or ma'am.

FOr underscoring the plight of the rural citizen. We do not suck the air out of the urban areas. They do a good job of that all by themselves. Urban folks vote in their own districts and are responsible for the decisions they make there. We do feed them and the world and we have been ignored.

[Crowdance]

19. Inconsistencies in your advice

"9.) Get "moral", honest, straightforward candidates to run. Rural
people "want someone they can trust" on a gut level. Is that
really too much to ask for? It would go a long way if they
were only married once and have a pattern of meaning what they
say and saying what they mean. It may sound hokey but it's important
to the rural voter."

This certainly doesn't describe Bush. He has only been married once, but he's led a profligate life, and is a demonstrated liar. The truth here is that Kerry was pegged as immoral by this people for his work to end the Vietnam travesty. On the other hand, these awful people managed to tar Clinton with the immorality brush because of his sexual activities; didn't seem to hurt him at all in his second election.

"10.) Run candidates that have military service in their resume.
A lot of soldiers and soldiers families are rural white voters.
Both symbolically and realistically, we can "represent them more"
by have similar experience. Kerry would have done better if his
campaigned had challenged the SBVT smear better. Clark would have
been and even better candidate."

Again, neither Bush nor Clinton had such service.

I do need to point out that your advice seems to preclude a woman EVER running for this office. No, thanks. This is not the direction in which this party needs to move.

[Bread and Circus]

22. I agree, Bush nor Clinton had either of these things.

But if the Dems ran a candidate who did, it would make a difference
and go a long way. We have hurdles to overcome, be we can. Given
that we are losing seats and power everywhere, we need to.

[bettys boy]

34. "precluding women?"

In what way does FD's proscriptions prohibit women from running? Is there a dearth of once-married, professional, military veteran women?

I'm thinking of LTG (Ret.) Claudia Kennedy, who was on Kerry's foreign policy team, as one example.

[finecraft]

21. Another rural exile here, and I agree with you

We have a Republican office that operates year-round. Know when we got a Kerry office here? - Two weeks before the election.

You are also right about the local radio. We have 1 independent local AM talk show in town, and about 5 Clear Channel/Citadel stations in our listening area. We need to develop a relationship with independent stations. They are having a hard time of keeping the door barred from the corporate giants, and the Dem advertising dollars would go a long way to keep them alive.

You are also right about the local newspapers. Everybody reads them because they are the only thing we have. Buy a weekly ad to counter the weekly columns by James Dobson that all the rural papers run. Isn't there 1 religious spokesperson that finds Republican morals offensive?

We used to get quarterly mailers from our congressmen telling us what a nifty job they are doing. Now we get mailers from the local GOP telling us what a great job the republican party is doing, and how horrible the liberals are and how much more your life will suck if liberals are ever in power again. What have we gotten from the Democrats? Zero, Zip, Nada. You are right....rural America has been fed the GOP line for so many years without any response or presence from the Democrats that it is almost embarrassing when people identify you as a Democrat because you are now identified as evil people that want to take your money and guns, and kill your unborn children.

Our congressional race was really bitter. We had three republican candidates on the ballot, and by week before the election, the second place candidate was sending out mailers with a picture showing the frontrunner's face, surrounded by the faces of Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, John Edwards and Hillary Clinton, stating the "Liberals in congress NEED candidate "A" to help impose their liberal agenda on us". This was in a state that holds the number one poverty rate in the nation. It sickened me. But it worked...the second place candidate is in the runoff election. And guess who this paragon of virtue is that wants to represent us in Congress because he is such a compassionate, caring, god-fearing man that will look out for our citizens? Billy Tauzin III, that's right, little Billy. The son of the man that screwed our senior citizens, the man that is responsible for the deregulation of the cable and telephone industries so we can happily pay higher costs, the man that never did jack-crap for Louisiana, the man that has almost as many ethically questionable acts in this political folder as Tom Delay....but he is a good Christian, republican man. This little twerp should have NEVER made it out of our primary. There were three Democratic candidates running in the race also, and thank God one of them is in the runoff against little Billy, and if the Democrats don't pour a ton of money down on him I'll be really pissed.

[Bread and Circus]

24. Howdy neighbor, we must live in the same town....

it sounds practically the same.

[rockydem]

25. great ideas

I think this is the blueprint out of our morass...

Now who in the party will listen?

[juliagoolia]

26. Rural county dem meeting.. this might be something they could do?

Here in Bastrop County, which is just east of Austin and is growing very fast with instant bedroom communities, we had a big turnout at our monthly meeting last night.

This is an accomplishment, because there are three main towns (Bastrop, Smithville and Elgin) lots of folks had to drive from either Austin or their home towns to the meeting.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=180x6478


Anyway, we had registered quite a few new voters and had had active GOTV efforts, so we needed to discuss what else to do from now on.

The main thing we came up with was that we are going to do more things with the community, and we are going to take pictures of everything we do!

We've had good luck getting publicity in all three weeklies, so when we all bring toys for Pink Santa to the meeting in Elgin next month, we are by God going to take a picture of us donating them AS A GROUP to publicize a) that we are here, and b) that we are public spirited.

We appointed a committee to identify community needs that we can work on (school supplies, poverty, drugs, Christmas dinner, whatever they come up with).

We are also going to begin a college scholarship fund of $3000 this year. That would be $1000 for each of the three towns' high schools.

more...........

[Bread and Circus]

27. P.S. I forgot this..in rural areas, everyone organizes around children.

Children, grand-children and so forth...they are what
is on people's minds nearly 24/7 and they love nothing
more. The dems just don't do enough to show an interest
in the rural voter's children. I don't have concrete
ideas on what to do about this but it is a major organizing
social force.

[democratreformed]

33. Although all your points up there were great, this just hits me as the

single best one. What do rural voters do for entertainment? Football games, baseball games, basketball games, on and on. Pee-wee, jr. high, high school, summer sports. This is a HUGE thing, IMO.

My husband and I own a very small business. When we contribute to our community, it is ALWAYS for the children - the sports programs, the "Christmas for Kids" program, the state police program that provides stuffed animals to kids whose parents are arrested, etc.

This starting point is an excellent place to learn and develop possible strategy.

P.S. Please be sure to include this on your list for Wes.

[Straight Shooter]

29. Buy all the Diebold and ES&S machines, then destroy them

What, you think petty people holding power are going to let it go? It's God's will.

They see compromise as surrender. Try to understand.

[Donna Zen]

30. wonderful suggestions! best post I read all day.

familydoctor_were you ever a supporter of General Clark? If so, he has asked for suggestions that he can "take to the table" for us. Posting these on his forum will get the message to him. If not, can we carry these to him?

[Bread and Circus]

31. Uh...I was one of the first Clarkies on DU...back in june 2003...

when Clark was still a dirty name around here.

If you want to use these suggestions, modify them, and
call them your own, be my guest to send them to General Clark.

I might send something similar to this on to Clark as well. I
wrote it on the fly (that's why there are so many grammatical/
punctuation/spelling errors) but I'd like to sit down and hammer
it all out in more detail.

[Donna Zen]

35. Consider it done.

We are running a blog of ideas that will be delivered to him sometime this week. As he is a fine word smith, I'll note that these were written as a rough draft for him to make into the ol' silk purse.

Yes familydoctor, I thought that I remembered you from the primary days and even from the Clark blog.

He wrote us a beautiful letter...did you receive yours? I believe (I should say know) that General Clark has been well aware of where this country is now headed, and must be sick in his heart.

Last weekend I was able to thank him for always telling the truth.

"Wes Clark is a great and gracious man." ~Bill Clinton

[finecraft]

37. For what it's worth, I've been talking with the moderates

yes, it's true, we actually have some moderate republicans around here, and I would say that at least 50% of them tell me the same thing.....There are 2 of the original Democratic candidates they could have brought themselves to vote for---Wes Clark and believe it or not Joe Lieberman.

[faithfulcitizen]

57. yeah, we Clarkies said that until we were blue in the face

during the primaries. I'd convinced all my repug relatives to vote for Clark, but sadly none of them voted Kerry. While we were campaigning in Indiana, we went to the american legion halls and were told several times, they'd vote for Clark but they hated Kerry. Funny thing is, Clark's platforms were fairly liberal and certainly could not be compared to Lieberman's. But because he was a general, had crossed party lines, and talk about faith often he was a viable often to them.

[Dr Fate]

32. Idiots called Dean a "racist" when he suggested this.

n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

36. Dean suggested talking Democratic politics

with guys who drive old pickups with gun racks and Confederate battle flags. That's a stereotype of Southerners, and Dean also talked about it as if just a few words from out-of-state Dems would straighten out their thinking.

Family doctor is saying we have to know all the people in our areas, not shun the conservatives. I think he's right. Looking down on others hasn't gotten us anywhere, has it?

[Donna Zen]

40. I live in a frontier county

How rural is that?

Anyway, I managed to get many of my very conservative neighbors to vote for Kerry. They immediately loved General Clark because he wasn't a politician and they trusted him to be moderate. When Clark dropped out, I lost every single one of them.

I listen to their concerns and answered them. I convinced the last guy the night before the election when I read a letter posted on Clark's blog. One of the members of the blog had lost his brother in Iraq in September, the letter he wrote to us was beautiful. That is why I read it aloud.

To get trust you must give trust.

[Bread and Circus]

45. I agreed w/ Dean in spirit on this...but the language he used was subtly

derogatory. Besides, it's more than getting the "gunrack" vote,
it's a whole paradigm shift between the Dem Party, it's urban
liberal leaders, and the swath of the country that has been
subtly influenced by the RW for over 30+ years. It's not just
the south, it's everywhere. CA, MI, MN, NY, Oregon, WA. No
matter how blue the state is, the rurals areas are almost
always magenta to red.

[Leilani]

38. This is the best, most constructive post here on DU today

& one of a few since the election!

I nominate this for front page!!!

Family Doctor, I grew up in a very blue area, but have lived all over the country...many times in rural areas.

I agree with your ideas & suggestions so much.

People here at DU think rural America is filled with idiots & bigots.
That is such an unfair stereotype. These people have been left behind, & the Republicans do a better job of reaching out to them.

Some of the kindest people I've ever met were in West Virginia, but here they are mocked. These people hunt for subsistence, & I think we should get off the gun issue.

Most people are not racists, but they feel minorities get special treatment. They & their ancestors never owned slaves, but they feel like they are somehow guilty for sins they never committed. Meanwhile they are just struggling to get by.

Many times the only way out of their poverty is to join the military. A lot of Dems think all military people are war criminals. There was a thread today dealing with this.

Anyway, thanks for your post!!!! I, too, was a Clark supporter. I imagined him campaigning in those rural areas among people I knew, & was sure he would have connected.

[flygal]

60. I agree - FRONT PAGE!...

I'm from MT and the * voters are NOT hillbillies. They vote with the "cool kids" - the SPORTSMEN! It all started with the gun issue, now liberal is a bad word.

But, the hope is MT voted a Dem gov, turned their leg over to dems (after four years of a complete looser - 20% approval). A rep. group in Kalispell is breaking away from the party and endorsed dem candidates b/c of the fundies!

There are also a TON of former military retired there and they ALL have yellow ribbons on their SUV's. We need more military speaking out - and I think that will happen.

[americanwomanone]

41. Well I am not rural voter but I totally agree, these are good ideas.

If this party ever wants to make any headway they need to study the culture of rural people and try to understand where they are coming from. Just because we don't possibly live as they do does not mean they should be ignored. I would think this past disaster should prove that. These people are not interested in some smooth talking lawyer types. This party needs to try to relate to them or we will never get anywhere. Sometimes you have to appear to walk the walk to accomplish what you want. I think the gay issue should be played down and let them know we don't want to take away their guns. The above suggestions make a lot of sense to me.

[Skidmore]

46. Smooth talking lawyer types comprise most of the Congress

these days, which doesn't really do much for representation of the population as a whole.

[americanwomanone]

48. Unfortunately yes. So what do we do? n/t

[seeker4ever]

43. This is moot if the vote was STOLEN!

P.S. You're missing the point. These bastards C H E A T ! Kerry was actually (IMO) a kick ass candidate who smelled WAY more "presidential", patriotic and capable he was just fu*ked by the lying, cheating, immoral bastards.

What we NEED to do is not run from the bullys but fight back!

[evilqueen]

61. 110 million eligible voters did not vote.

Yes, cheating and voting irregularities and other problems exist, I know, but that's a separate issue from the basics of campaign strategy, which is what this thread is about.

[no name no slogan]

66. The fact that it was CLOSE ENOUGH to steal is the problem

The Dems should have had no problem beating Dubya this time around-- he's the worst president we've had since Herbert Hoover, and most opinion polls agree.

The simple fact that this election was close enough for ChimpCo to steal it points out the real problems with the party leadership as it is.

It is dominated by urban, upper-class lawyers and Wall Street types who are COMPLETELY out of touch with what normal working-class people go through each day just to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table.

This party is not only out of touch with rural people, but regular working-class people, too. If it weren't, our presidential candidate would have been championing an end to NAFTA, Universal Healthcare, and a Livable Wage law.

The fact that he didn't just goes to show how narrow our focus has become.

[dixielib]

44. Please keep this thread going...I need more ideas...

I hate to admit this, but I live about a mile from Zell Miller (holding my nose). While we didn't go all GOP...* carried the county. I want so much to change my little part of the world and you have got me thinking here. I have a small circle of friends in the area who fit right in here. Otherwise...anyone with a boggie man doll wearing a t-shirt with guns, gay, or abortion on it, shaken in the face of a local will get them to spouting their Faux News one-liner of the day. Ten Commandment signs are in almost every yard. Maybe I will invite my progressive friends over to form the Progressive Democratic Party. Supporting the children in the community is a real winner here. We could probably get up a scholarship fund. Coats for Kids program is cranking up...we could buy a few coats. Of course, lots of holiday programs coming up, the PDP could donate to all of those. Do some fundraisers in public places where the PDP is raising funds for those programs. What do you think?

[KellyPaDem]

47. Absolutely not...

We are talking about a political party not a traveling preacher!!

I DON'T want religion in my politics. Look at what letting corporation into the White House has done. If you think for one moment that the religious right won't come knocking on the White House door and reminding the President who got him elected, you need to think again. I don't want the Democrats beholded to any religious group (or corporation but that won't happen). We are Democrats and right or wrong we stand for certain things!

"Rural people" don't want someone honest. If they did George would never have gotten elected. They want someone who they can look at and say, "I want to have a beer with that guy." Let's be honest that's one of the main problems with the election. Kerry was smart, had good ideas, and wasn't Bush but he was stiff, from New England, and he talked about gray areas and nuance. Bush's main gift is that he can simplify any argument or any idea into a two or three word sentences that people can quickly let sink in and feel all warm and fuzzy about. Black and white. Clean Skies, No Child left behind, healthy forest, terrorism. Most American's don't read the newspaper (where they go into detail on issues) they watch TV and get 3 second sound bites and believe they are being well informed.

Would you have our party denounce abortion and gays if it ment we could win? Would you have us walk around saying God wants our party to win the election?

Our party has to do a better job of being Democrats and making issues clear. They need to do a better job of talking about REAL issues and making people understand they need to vote in their own best interest. We need to stop demonizing pro-choice, stems cells, partial birth-abortion (in terms of the mothers life), and gays.

Stop saying that we need to be more like them. Their wrong! We need to be ourselves! When some people didn't want to fight the British for independence we didn't stop. When some people didn't want rights for women we didn't stop. When some people didn't want to give equal rights to minorities we didn't stop.

We didn't change our positions, we changed the people. We challenged Americans to look at injustice, to think of our fellow man, to see the tired and weak among us. That is what we should be focused on not on pandering to non-issues and having better photo-ops.

[Bread and Circus]

50. I think you missed the point of my thread.

You're arrogance towards rural people is insulting
and reveals a level of ignorance of what rural folk
are like. For instance, you say:

"Most American's don't read the newspaper (where they go into detail
on issues) they watch TV and get 3 second sound bites and believe
they are being well informed."

That just shows me you don't know what you are talking about.
People do "read the paper", just not the NYTimes. They read the
local paper and often see a huge slant toward RW issues/candidates.
If you knew just that, you would see I might be on to something.

My whole point is to not compromise principal, but win people to
our side by embracing and representing common fundamental things
we can share.

As to your "travelling preacher" comment, I frankly just don't see
where you get that.

[KellyPaDem]

54. Actually...

Okay first of all my comments were not a direct attack on YOU. My comments were ment for the democrats at large. I understand where your coming from but I DISAGREE with you.

Second I live in a rural area.

Third "most people don't read newspapers" was not directed at rural people. In this country 15% of people get the majority of their news from newspapers, 35% read a newspaper everyday. If you don't believe that the majority of people get the majority of their news from TV then I really don't know what to say to you.

And fourth you ARE talking about compromising our principals, you know separation of church and state. That is a big principal in this country. If you want to talk about our principals then talk about farm acts and helping jobs in small town America. Not which church each of us should try to reach.

I'm sorry if you didn't want disagreement of your points. Perhaps that more than anything is a commentary on this country.

However, in the spirit of finding common ground. I agree with advertising on local billboards and newspapers.

edit(sp)

[stevedeshazer]

49. Thank you

I've been saying this for years now.

I grew up in rural America. Back then, Democrats were very active in small communities, Grange halls, churches, schools, senior center, etc.

I especially like your suggestion for advertising in local papers...everyone reads the local paper and it's cheap!

[evilqueen]

51. Rural America

If Democrats think they can keep rural America interest by only showing up right before the election, they're wrong. As happy as I was with Kerry's campaign and his candidacy, there were lots of mistakes made. I didn't get postal mail from the campaign until the week before the election. I never got the "free bumpersticker" that was offered on the site, in exchange for my email address -- which was then bombarded with money solicitations. If I were an undecided or curious/uninformed voter (which I wasn't, but I'm trying to put myself in their place), the Democratic Party made itself look like it was only interested in my vote and my money... not in listening to my concerns, my needs, or even welcoming my input (until after the election was lost).

The Democratic Party, contrary to most supporter's opinions, did not do that good of a job in its internet campaign either. imnsho. Who among the party leadership was visible here on this forum? Who was visible on the Kerry/Edwards forum? If someone asked me to identify anyone from Party HQ in either place, I would have had to say "I don't see anyone." And that would have also been my reply at the local level. I recall, when asking where my free bumpersticker was, being told to go to a local HQ and pick one up. There are no local HQs here, there are none within a radius of 55 miles. If the Party did not intend to deliver on a promise as small as a bumpersticker, what could possibly make an undecided voter believe the Party would follow through on larger concerns? These things matter, whether the Party wants to recognize it or not.

Will I hear from the Party via postal mail in the next two years? I have no idea, but if they intend to get serious about campaigns and getting Democrats elected and/or keeping the seats they now hold, they will need to rethink how they've been interacting with voters.

I'm not a church-going person. Nor are most of the people that I know. Don't limit the outreach to religious groups. Engage the rest of America as well.

[ewagner]

53. Agree and add

Dems need to be seen as active members in the affairs of the community. We need to be sponsors and co-sponsors of things like bike rodeosfire safety programs etc.,

We need to be visable in postive activities in the community.

I'm glad I took the time to go through this post. It's one of the most rational since the election.

keep it kicked :kick:

[joytomme]

55. No ideas...a question

In an article in the NYT this morning, Bob Herbert quoted a survey taken of Repub voters. A third of them still believe Saddam and AlQaeda were connected, they still believe that WMD were found in Iraq and they believed that the world supported Bush's invasion in Iraq.

Now do we counteract ignorance, is my question? These voters didn't believe or refused to believe the facts. Is this a reversible illness?

Ratfuck Diary (http://ratfuckdiary.blogspot.com)

[Bread and Circus]

56. It boils down to "who they believe" and a relationship is often...

necessary for believability. People trust those they
think are acting in their interests. Part of my thread
is about doing concrete things that matter to rural
voters to gain trust in Dem leadership. Trust is also
gained through dialogue in and of itself, it's part of
human nature. The Dem Party has failed in creating a dialogue
with the rural voter for the most part.

[fiorello]

58. Excellent, excellent post: Listening to people who really KNOW rural v's

I'm not rural - from the Kerry "ghetto" of Ann Arbor, MI - so I have no positive suggestions. It's critical, though, to listen to people who really know rural voters. Great suggestions.

Even if we had won, the poor performance among rural voters would have been key.

I would LIKE to think that it is possible to reach rural voters WITHOUT pandering to the radical right on abortion, gays, etc. - just express with sensitivity (as I thought Edwards did.) Do you agree?

I was for Kerry in the primary, Kerry had the military background,but I suspect but I suspect he personally made rural voters uncomfortable - he was somehow too 'harsh'. Do you agree?

[evilqueen]

59. alienation

My sense is that large swaths of America felt alienated by Kerry. Some of it had to do with how the issues were presented. I flinched every time he said "we will hunt down and kill the terrorists", I groaned every time he mentioned his "plan" which I don't think 90% of America even knew what that "plan" was. A lot of people thought he was for gun control and thought his bird hunting was pandering, not realizing he's a life-long hunter. Some people also told me that they feel gun rights shouldn't be regulated at all.

One example: both parties hold dear "peace and security in daily life." But the democrats work to that end by (among other things, of course) trying to remove guns from our society through increasing restrictions on lawful gun-owners in the name of gun control. This action, which strongly resembles prohibition, makes criminals out of the law-abiding populace which own guns, and largely ignores those criminals who will always use weapons illegally. As such, this implementation will always alienate gun-owners, who otherwise would be some of the staunchest supporters of the basic values of peace and security. That is, after all, generally why they own guns... to preserve and take personal responsibility for their own continued peace and security. Banning the kinds of weapons civilians may own is injurious to our capacity to fulfill that duty, and also promotes the idea that our professional military and police forces are morally superior to the public they defend.

One thing I see as problematic for both parties is a tendency to dismiss the opposing viewpoint as invalid without considering where the people who hold with it are coming from. If each side could try to simply find out why the other fears what they fear and work to alleviate the fear instead of merely belittling it, perhaps the extreme ends of both parties would fall off and the moderate factions could actually come together and create something everyone can get behind.

These are basic American values:

Truth / Honesty
Compassion / Love
Responsibility / Support & Protection
Freedom / Liberty
Reverence for Life
Respect for Diversity
Fairness
Self-Respect
Preservation of Nature
Tolerance
Generosity
Humility
Social Harmony
Honor / Integrity
Devotion
Respect for Elders

Ethics - universal global ethics. Ethics must be made personal, tangible, and experiential, instead of being determined by scientific logic, clerical advice, or governmental policy.

Show that Democrats are willing to put their values into practice across a broad range of issues (without alienating large swaths of the electorate).

Democratic campaigns should be committed to the principles of honesty, fairness, respect for the opponent, responsibility, and compassion. The purpose is to improve the quality of the dialogue during the campaign season. It challenges the notion that negative campaigns are necessary to win. The evidence is strong that this is not the case and, in fact, that positive campaigns and a sense of ethics are necessary for effective governance.

[evilqueen]

62. #13 Farmers

Bring back industrial hemp production. Give those farmers something to grow that isn't *just* used for food. If you don't know much about hemp (other than the use of medical or personal use marijuana), I suggest you do some in-depth research. Canada has revitalized a large portion of it's agriculture sector through hemp production. We should learn something from what they are doing.

[tomfodw]

63. Any advice for Republicans to reach out to urban voters?

Of course not. Nobody mentions or even seems to care that the Democrats have a mortal lock on that chunk of the electorate. It's like we're nonexistent.

Yes, the Democrats need to expand their base, but it's not like we're starting from 25%. Kerry won 55 million votes. More would be great, but why doesn't anyone ever point out all the areas where Bush ran so poorly? Why don't the Republicans have to get more sophisticated? Why is it always the Democrats who have to get stupider?

[Bread and Circus]

64. I don't rec'd dems get "stupider", I do rec'd they win more elections.

Rural areas are important because the way we
elect senators and the President.
A small state gets as many senators as a large one.
In this way, rural power gets "over-represented".
To a lesser extent, Presidential elections also
overweight rural areas.

[Patiod]

67. Thanks for the good ideas

You're right, even if Kerry had won, we would still need to reach out to the rural voter.

These ideas can also work in the city suburbs and nearby small towns , where the Dem vote is not ensured, and many people split their votes.

We have our local papers (which everyone reads to see if their kids' names are mentioned!), and sponsorship of teams or events is a cheap way of reminding people of our involvement in the community.

Radio is where I'm stumped - I drive not far out of Philadelphia, towards Reading, Harrisburg, York, etc., and I'm deluged with pro-Republican "Christian" stations carrying the party line, and well as Clearchannel country stations. I certainly can't find any "independent" stations.

[evilqueen]

68. Philadelphia, PA - WHAT 1340 AM

They air AirAmericaRadio programming.

[Patiod]

69. Thanks, but they are AAR noon- 7pm (Al & Randi) only

Believe me, Randi has been a lifeline the past week. They also air a pretty good local Union-based show on Saturday.

But thanks for the referral, evilqueen.

[evilqueen]

70. well, radio is key

Maybe we need to figure out ways to get some grassroots liberal talk radio stations going? It wouldn't have to be as extreme leftwing as AAR sometimes is, but there are few places where Democratic viewpoints are getting out to the public.

[evilqueen]

65. We can do better.

Census data lists the voting age population (and I assume this is the same as eligible voters who are 18 and older) at 217.8 million. A portion of all these residents are ineligible to vote because they are noncitizens, or are felons (in states where felons are ineligible to vote). This means turnout of the voter age population was around 53%. The two parties split that almost evenly. The record was back in the '60's of 58.7%. We weren't even close.

So... yes, we're starting from around 25% or so.

[yardwork]

71. Good points!

I'm in rural health, grew up in a rural area, and have lived in a red southern state for decades. I know lots of docs like familydoctor, and he's right. I hope the Democratic Party listens.

I hate to criticize the Kerry campaign. I believe they actually won the election, if the votes hadn't been electronically altered. Nonetheless, we failed to put the election out of reach of fraud. Electronic tampering may be here to stay. We have to get the majority of Americans resoundingly back into the Democratic Party and put the elections beyond reach of fraud.

Some additional suggestions:

1. Republicans fight dirty. They lie and cheat and steal. They make up atrocious lies about Democrats and fill the airwaves with them. Instead of being shocked at their behavior, we need to fight back! This is how Bill Clinton won twice. Learn from the Big Dog.

2. Our candidates can be from anywhere in the country, but their advisors must be from all over. Shrum and Cahill didn't have a clue. They came for a polite northeastern croquet match. The Republicans came to wrestle alligators. Tacky? You bet. That's the playing field.

3. Democrats must accept more party direction and discipline and they must stick together and coordinate strategies. Where were the Democrats on the Hill and around the country when Kerry was smeared on the Senate floor over his Vietnam service? There should have been a massive uprising of Democrats in response! That was an outrage! Elected Democrats at all local, state, and national levels should have stood up and shouted down those lies and reminded the people of the Bush administration's shameful service record. Further, there should have been private threats of political blackmail and payback if the Republicans didn't knock off their lies. We need to jam their lies and hypocrisy in their faces, and threaten to do worse. Voters like candidates who stand up for themselves.

4. Rove is not a genius and he didn't invent these dirty tricks. They've been around forever. Jesse Helms used them to good effect in North Carolina for decades. The Democrats need to create a data base of nasty Republican strategies and develop strategies to fight them.

5. Improve communication. When I went to the Kerry website to find facts to refute the lies I was hearing everywhere about Kerry's record - there was nothing! Not one word on the Kerry site about his actual Senate voting percentage. People shouldn't have to do searches through FactCheck to find out the truth about their candidates. We need to be a lot more proactive.

[SouthernDaisy]

72. how can we fight their churches?

"Vote republican" is preached every Sunday!

[tomreedtoon]

73. How about in your church, if you have one?

Understand, I know many people on the left have been burned by organized religion and want nothing to do with it. They don't have to do this.

But there are people who have a religious aspect to their lives who are Democrats. They can speak up in their own churches.

I think some Protestants might learn from the Catholic priests of the Jesuit order. They have a process called "casuistry" that helps them determine moral responses to complex questions. From Wikipedia, the ten dollar definition:

Casuistry (argument by cases) is an attempt to determine the correct response to a moral problem, often a moral dilemma, by drawing conclusions based on parallels with agreed responses to pure cases, also called paradigms. Casuistry is a method of ethical case analysis. Another common everyday connotation is "complex reasoning to justify moral laxity or to forward unspoken agendas."

I admit I don't know my Bible the way that many Baptists claim to, but someone who does can find and argue that the Bible can support many progressive ideas. Add to that existing teachings by your specific church, and you could un-demonize much of the Democratic agenda.

[vinny9698]

74. The problem is that most northern liberal seperate religion from govt.

bush and company have embraced the fundies for political purposes and pander to their whims. Hell Kerry was more religious then bush, bush is just using the religion issue to get votes. He has switched several time religions to suit his needs.

[BamaLefty]

75. Red Stater

Push the minimum wage like crazy!!!!!!!

[Bread and Circus]

76. This is more than just the "moral issues" pandering that the media...

is rec'ding dems do.

Actually, I want real reform and real dialogue w/ the rural
voter. Especially on issues of environment, conservation,
land use, and agriculture. Above all, agriculture. And I'm
not talking about more "farm handouts" for setaside land. I'm
talking about empowering farmers and farming families to be able
to work together to cut out "the middle man". I'm also talking
about bringing higher tech jobs to rural areas.

By affecting rural economy, we will affect its culture, by affecting
culture, we'll effect voting practices. But more immediately than
that, bridges of dialogue need to be formed.

It's not enough nor appropriate for our candidates to scapegoat
gays. First off, it would be reprehensible. Secondly, it wouldn't
work because it's just more disingenuous me-tooism. Thirdly, it will
support the notion that the dems don't stand for anything anymore.

[evilqueen]

77. agreed

We don't abandon anyone we've already included... that's betrayal! We should seek to be even MORE INCLUSIVE. Don't get hung up on all these little wedge issues, couch the dialogue in terms of values everyone can agree on (see my post somewhere up above where I talk about values). If it needs to be pointed out that Separation of Church and State also protects Christianity from being marginalized by other religions or even from non-religions, then someone should figure out how to say that without offending anyone.