On Gay Marriage: "I Will NEVER Vote For Those Gutless Slime AGAIN...

[Placebo]

if the Democrats allow Bush to pass the gay marriage amendment."
—My father, lifelong Democrat

President Bush will renew a quest in his second term for a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage as essential to a "hopeful and decent" society, his top political aide said on Sunday.

"If we want to have a hopeful and decent society, we ought to aim for the ideal, and the ideal is that marriage ought to be, and should be, a union of a man and a woman," Bush political aide Karl Rove told "Fox News Sunday."

Rove said Bush would "absolutely" push the Republican-controlled Congress for a constitutional amendment, which he said was needed to avert the aims of "activist judges" who would permit gay marriages.

full article may be found here: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=1&u=/nm/20041107/ts_nm/bush_agenda_dc_3

[Teaser]

1. If Gay Marriage is killed by Dems...

they will use this issue against the Dems in '06 and '08 in the form of ballot initiatives. And the Dems will lose more seats.

Not saying we shouldn't oppose it. just mentioning the likely consequences.

Pick your poison folks.

[geek tragedy]

3. That is bullshit.

60% of the population supports civil unions.

We need to cast this as hatred vs. tolerance.

[Teaser]

10. Answer me, honestly...

Did you foresee the profound effect homophobia would have on this election? I sure as hell didn't.

Homophobia is deep, deep waters, my friend. We should do the right thing, no doubt. But we will likely also suffer for it.

We need to spend the next 2 years just talking about bigotry. It's our only shot at blunting this attack. Just keep using the term "anti-gay bigotry" in all kinds of conversation. We've got to change the culture.

God help us to have enough time left.

[geek tragedy]

11. If it wasn't gay marriage, it would have been abortion. Or affirmative

action.

[bagnana]

39. My god! I have been saying the same thing over and over

Yes. Bigotry is what it is, and they cannot deny it. I'm not saying that all republicans are bigots but I do believe most bigots are republicans. My co-worker gets irritated by my claim that in the end Bush won by exciting the bigotry of Americans. Well it may be true that this was not universally the case, but it was the final push that won him the election (voter fraud aside). He doesn't want to think about the company he keeps, and insists democrats must do soul searching to determine why they lost. I know why we lost. It doesn't make me feel better, but neither should he. He is in the company of bigots. It is bigotry that won the race, and the democrats have got to just start calling a spade a spade on this.

[Kipepeo]

40. what profound effect??

Even if you believe the results we still got roughly half of the vote. Not exectly overwhelming support of Bush's homophobic policies.

Homophobia is a dying prejudice. I expect the Democratic party to do it's best to help kill it off.

[Mike L]

14. But 75% of the population supports gay marriage bans.

[trogdor]

15. Yes, and the ignorant bastards will crush you.

The time to bring this shit up is NOT when you're trying to get elected. Given the current environment, you will lose, and lose badly. When that happens, the other side gets stronger, and your meager ability to filibuster will disappear.

Don't even worry about the FMA. Last I heard, it takes a 2/3 majority in both houses to send it to the states, and the ignorant bastards still don't have the votes, even in the new Congress. This thing will die an ugly death; all we have to do is let the ignorant bastards talk.

[DemBones DemBones]

27. You say 60% support civil unions, which may be true, but

how many support same sex marriages? A lot of people support the former and not the latter.

[Mike L]

13. '06 and '08

"they will use this issue against the Dems in '06 and '08 in the form of ballot initiatives."

Correct. If they put 9-10 gay marriage ban initiatives on every 2 years, Rove will control the elections through 2012. Rove will do it.

[trogdor]

16. They've already shot their wad.

Last I heard, there were only 50 states, and eleven of them just passed the Rove Amendment. There are probably another dozen states at least where this was already on the books. Most of the remaining states don't matter for one reason or another. This is a weapon with no more bullets in it.

[Mike L]

19. They can keep it in the news by bringing up the state bans for at least 3

more election cycles. The ban might even pass in California and NY. It passed in Oregon by 57% with gay rights groups actively campaigning against it.

Anyway, they will get mileage out of it by bringing up the federal constitution ban every election cycle if we don't find a way to get rid of the issue.

[mondo joe]

22. OR Dems could beat them with Civil Union compromise.

Dems could neutralize it by taking it off the table with a compromise.

[Mike L]

34. Why would repugs agree to a compromise? They want to preserve the issue

to beat us over the head with.

[mondo joe]

35. Who has to ask them to agree to a compromise?

Dems do have power in some states. Get it on the ballots.

[Mike L]

36. I was talking about on the federal level.

[mondo joe]

37. Well.... I was talking on the state level, which is where the action is

Or at least where the action has been.

:-)

[mondo joe]

18. Bull. The dems need to provide an acceptable compromise.

It's not just gay marriage vs no gay marriage.

There is another option that is increasingly accepted as a compromise: civil unions.

Only 1/3 of voters are opposed to ANY regal recognition of same sex couples.

[Tweed]

2. There is no reason why we need a Federal Amendment

It should be a state by state issue and I think most people agree with that. Read Dick Durbin's address from the Senate floor on the Federal Marriage Amendment: http://durbin.senate.gov/sitepages/FMA.htm

The Federal Government has never made laws regarding marriage and has always left it up to the states. Why should the gov't do something about it now?

[IndianaGreen]

6. We cannot even pass ENDA, that bars sexual orientation discrimination

If you are gay you can be fired without cause because sexual orientation is not protected under civil rights laws.

[TankLV]

24. Yeah! State by state bigotry is the way to go!

Let's just fuck equal rights altogether!

Great idea!

[demokatgurrl]

4. We must do everything we can to keep them

from fucking with the Constitution. The Constitution has never been amended to TAKE AWAY rights, and we must never start down that road. If it comes to a vote in the Senate we must protest, LOUDLY and VEHEMENTLY.

[DenaliDemocrat]

7. that is not true

Prohibition was written into the constituion, so it has happened before, although I agree it sucks.

[DenaliDemocrat]

5. Remember

A constitutional ammendment has to be ratified by 2/3 of the states. I don't see it happening

[Placebo]

9. Have you seen how many red states there are?

Oy.

[trogdor]

17. That's 3/4 of the state legislatures.

That's 37 of them.

[Silverhair]

31. 37 states have DOMAs.

[JohnKleeb]

8. some unifer bush is

Trying to push homophobic legislation dwon the throats, though I msut say, if they try to pass this in the senate, the advantage is theres since they have 10 more people than we do which totally sucks ass.

[Cocoa]

12. pre-emptive namecalling?

remind me, what happened the last time the gay marriage amendment came up for a vote?

Any indication in that story or anywhere else that the dems are going to cave in?

[JVS]

20. So, who is he going to vote for after Bush passes it?

[mondo joe]

21. If Dems won't protect my rights I might as well vote Republican

If the Dems abandon gays or civil rights they're not going to deserve my contributions or my votes (both of which they get regularly).

[TankLV]

25. Thank you.

Time to put up or shut up and reap the consequences.

All you bigots and "back of the bussers" want my vote FOR this party?

THEN EARN IT!

[Roland99]

23. Karl Rove's Freudian Slip from FOX News Sunday

Courtesy the Olbermann blog:

how about that Karl Rove and his Freudian slip on “Fox News Sunday”? Rove was asked if the electoral triumph would be as impactful on the balance of power between the parties as William McKinley’s in 1896 and he forgot his own talking points. The victories were “similarly narrow,” Rove began, and then, seemingly aghast at his forthrightness, corrected himself. “Not narrow; similarly structured.”

[DemBones DemBones]

29. Haha! I love to hear that Rover fucked up on live tv! nt

[Cocoa]

32. why should Rove have to slip that info?

history is not a secret, any journalist can point out the historical fact that Rove blurted out.

But they don't. :mad:

[neverforget]

26. Constitutional Amendments in the states to ban Divorce and Adultery

We need to put them on the defensive. Let's see what these famliy lovers are morals are really made of?

[Skittles]

28. people who love each other wanting to get married

it boggles my mind that there is any controversy; what year is this????????

[mondo joe]

30. I'd like Dems to come on strong with a civil union compromise

Polling idicates that ROUGHLY:

* 1/3 supports same sex mariage
* 1/3 supports civil unions
* 1/3 opposes ANY legal recognition of same sex couples.

I'd like the Dems to come out STRONG with an agenda to enact legislation supporting civil unions. This should work for the 2/3 that support some legal recognition.

I don't think civil unions are the ideal solution, but it's a compromise I'm willing to make.

[Cocoa]

33. and two of the people in that middle group

are Bush and Cheney, who are both on record in support of civil unions.

[Hippo_Tron]

38. Take marriage out of the state...

Put it in the churches where it belongs.

[zulchzulu]

41. Vote on party lines and then educate the masses

It looks like the states that will have that vote go for that are not solid red states.

Against gay marriage:
Arkansas, Georgia, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Ohio, Utah, Oregon, Kentucky, Louisiana, Missouri

In favor of gay marriage:
Massachusetts, Vermont, Alaska and Hawaii

This list is based on a couple sites...perhaps someone has a better list.

[retread]

42. Not going to happen! Here's why

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1341473

[Mike L]

43. Retread, I guess I'm missing something. I don't follow you.

[retread]

44. If a ban is in the federal constitution, how can they use the issue to

get their base to the polls?

[Mike L]

45. It takes 5- 6 years to go through the process to get a

federal constitutional amendment. The repugs can pursue the constitutional amendment and use the state initiatives at the same time.