Dean for DNC chair? I thought we wanted to BUILD the party.

[FuriousMNDem]

If Dean were the nominee, Washington DC's electoral votes would be in play.

If Dean chairs the DNC, the Dem Party will likely disintegrate, like the Federalists.

Just you wait.

[quiet.american]

1. Who's your suggestion for DNC Chair?

n/t

[geek tragedy]

2. DNC chair doesn't run for President. How many people in swing states

know who Terry McAuliffe is?

His record and ideas are actually centrist.

[BlueManDude]

3. Bullshit

Dean image is somewhat divorced from the reality of his record. The man governed as a moderate and was transformed in the public's mind because of the gay marriage issue.

Dean however IS a reformer with passion and conviction and I'm 100% behind his DNC candidacy.

[President Jesus]

8. I'd suggest his image was transformed by his oppostio to the Iraq war.

Also, he's never been a supporter of gay marriage, but did support a civil union law in Vermont (which had tremendous backlash in that state btw).

But I do agree with the gist of your statement: Dean's image is somewhat divorced from the reality of his record.

I think many people who support him so vigorously think Dean is Kucinich (who really does hold the views of the left).

[BlueManDude]

16. You're right about his opposition to the occupation

That was also a galvanizing factor and why so many stick by the man. If he becomes DNC chairman (I'd like to see it) the media will try to claim that the Dems have gone left and replay the scream as nauseum - but Dean is so eloquent, passionate, articulate and rational that he will be able to get over that stuff they'll throw at him early on.

[cali]

19. I think most of the people who support him

are aware of his record. He was, for Vermont, a pretty centrist guy. Centrism in Vermont is liberalism most other places. But it's Dean's ability to speak directly, to cut to the heart of the matter, to stand up for what he believes, that most Dean supporters find so appealing.

[Cha]

32. Everyone I know and myself who supported

Dean in the primary know exactly who he is. And we know what he's doing out there now..working his ass off for our Democracy.

I don't care what his title is ..I just want him to keep working for us. I actually think he's better than a DNC chair..or maybe he would be good out there on tv debating the issues with gillespi or whomever the current rnc ratass would be.

[aquart]

4. Hyperbole is not useful.

Back up your slander with a fact or back off.

[President Jesus]

10. I'd hardly call it 'slander'

Let's look at the facts: Dean had beyond every opportunity to win the nomination, and was the hands-down favorite to do so. But the only state he won was Vermont.

How is this statement hyperbole?

[geek tragedy]

14. It means that Dean was a bad candidate, not that his ideas were wrong.

[President Jesus]

5. This is such a meaningless position...

Does anyone really think Bush won because of the strength and genius of Ed Gillespie?

Did Bill Clinton beat an incumbant president in 92 because of Ron Brown?

This is a figurehead, cheerleader position. All of these 'chair' positions are. For example, Marc Racicot was Bush's campaign chair. Does anyone really believe this guy was calling the shots and was Rove's boss?

[codegreen]

6. who would you rather have, Bob Shrum? still sobbing over Terry leaving?

what we need is to abandon as much of the old, boring, compromising, right-of-the-left, perpetual failure crowd as we can, and quick.

Dean will keep us energized and engaged, and transform the Chair position, the DNC, and the rest of the party.

DFA should become the DNC, the party should be the party of the people again.

people keep saying how afraid they are that we could fail worse than we repeatedly have, but i say that's exactly the kind of crap that's been killing this party and this nation.

Dean was right, on all accounts, and the campaign went on to more or less prove it. we need him to get this party in shape again.

[tjdee]

7. Whoa, what? DC would vote for a block of cheese if it weren't a Republican

You don't care to explain that at all???

[Old and In the Way]

9. I disagree.

If anything, Dean would be a great voice and a fighter to build the Party. As a big Kerry supporter, I see absolutely nothing that would make Dean detrimental to the Party.

[Julien Sorel]

51. Dean's image with the public is terrible.

It would be worse after the Republicans started calling every Democrat a "Howard Dean Democrat," and invoking his scream, and showing some of his Angry Man speeches. I remember the one they were playing during the primaries where he howls out, "I don't want to listen to the fundamentalist preachers any more!" If I were a Republican strategist, I'd send videotapes of that beauty to every church, temple, and mosque in America, black and white, liberal and conservative.

All that being said, stuff like that has a shelf life before it gets old and people are ready to move on. McAuliffe was a fantastic fundraiser for the Dems. Can Dean equal him? Can Dean keep his crazies in check? Or would they see Dean being DNC chair similarly to the way the religious crazies are viewing Bush winning this election: a green light for them to remake the party according to their own radical agenda?

The last point in particular troubles me, as it ties in to the potential for Dean becoming the poster child for the darker side of liberalism, which I discussed in the first paragraph. The media are giving the religious people all the rope in the world with which to hang themselves; the last thing we need is to see Democrats out there fighting for some of that rope themselves. And I could easily see that happening with Dean in a prominent position of leadership in the party.

[StopTheMorans]

53. EARTH TO DEMS: GIVE UP ON THE FUNDIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fundamentalists are opposed to change; and change is inevitable. Dems embrace change in the places where it makes sense (i.e. women becoming a larger percentage of the workforce), and fundies are terrified of any change b/c they are insecure morans. the dems SHOULD NEVER PANDER TO FUNDIES; there are plenty of other voters out there who actually use their brain and could be persuaded to vote for issues that actually help them...

[Julien Sorel]

59. Who wants the fundies?

There are normal people who go to church as well. And the key with them is, make the Republicans earn their votes, make them move further and further to the far right to keep them happy. If the fundies are angry at or afraid of the Democrats, half the Republicans' job is done for them, and they don't have to work so hard to keep those people in the fold.

[StopTheMorans]

60. "normal people" who go to church should already vote for dems

if they don't; they're as bad as the single issue fundie voters who vote against their own greater interests for a single issue...

[Lorien]

11. And you think the Dem party is doing well now?

Without a major overhaul and a spine implant, we're done.

[MuseRider]

12. You are not going to believe this but...

this, to me, is the perfect place for Dean. I disliked Dean as a candidate and I was pretty vocal about it but this is a place I can see him being very beneficial. He will not let them run all over him, he knows the issues, he is aware of the corporate takeover and is against it and he can raise money like nobody's business. He also knows how to organize. I just think I would like him in this spot. We need someone who is willing to take on the issues without conceding. McAuliffe did this on occasion but in general I was never happy with him.

[candy331]

22. Dean needs to run as far as possible from DNC chair, he must

realize that he will never be accepted by the power shell of the now in power Democrats, they tore him to pieces to anoint their Electable candidate who quickly conceded the race before he acceded
it. Dean needs to stay on the outside and gain strength from grassroots supporters and when the power/powerless repub lite lose the last vestige of credibility he will be in position to make headway.

[serryjw]

13. #1 job of the DNC chair is

FUNDRASING! Dean is great at this and the young people love him. I think it's a great idea.

[deadparrot]

15. Most Dems don't even know who the DNC chair is.

I doubt it would have much of an effect upon the party.

[Malva Zebrina]

17. It would be a waste of talent

should a man like Dean be somewhere in the back seat in a position of frustration and constant blame. He has a message that appeals to many people and the will and the courage to bring it to the people. I don't know where he intends to go, and maybe he doesn't either, but I do not think it should be there.

[chyjo]

18. I would much rather have Dean as DNC chair

than Tom Vilsack.

[pa28]

20. Could not be further from the truth.

You don't want a diplomat for chairman. You want an S.O.B. who is going to go for the jugular. You want somebody who is motivated and tenacious with ideas to re-build the party.

I never supported his candidacy but I think he's the ideal man to manage the party. Let's leave the make-nice to elected officials but put a warrior in charge.

[liberalnurse]

21. Yes, indeed....Dean is the chosen one.....

:smoke:

[bluestatewannabe]

23. Dean is a fighter

He would have fought more than Kerry to uncover the fraud. Even though I favored Kucinich, Dean would be the better fighter. Maybe Kerry is doing a low-profile investigation to prevent destruction of evidence. That is all we can hope for right now.

[stavka]

24. Dean is a loser. I'm not sure who it should be, but not him

[Cheswick2.0]

25. LOL, nice try

you guys really are getting scared aren't you?

[stavka]

31. I'm not sure who "you guys" are....

I'm totally for an overhaul of the DNC, but the good Doctor ain't what is called for....

PS. I worked/gave for the Clark Campaign, gave money to Edwards, then worked for Kerry even though I didn't think he would make a good president...

just so you know who I am.

Dean is a laughing stock for 90% of Republican voters and probably at least 25% of Democrats - that seems like a really bad start, regardless if he deserves such opinions.

[madfloridian]

34. We never insulted your candidates.

Actually there is only one group that makes it a point to insult Dean. Very obvious, too.

[stavka]

36. Personally, I have nothing against the good doctor...

But he's neither electable, nor a good figurehead for the party...

I'm not offering up anybody in his stead, but he's a "loser" in either role above.

[Nimble_Idea]

37. they won't listen to you though

you're probably a 3 year old.
Or you don't know shit about politics.

Or whatever else they will pull ou of their asses.

Your right, and they .....refuse to realize that you are.

[madfloridian]

39. Your insults just don't matter to us. Taking a stand is vital now.

Just not reaching us, just not hurting us. There comes a time when it is necessary to be insulted in order to cause change. It is ok.

[Nimble_Idea]

43. what are you talking about

not reaching us, not hurting us? So what is going on? Closed minds?
You only close minds when you have a majority then you can close the minds and become the borg, like the Republican party.

No thanks.


note: the insults are repeats of your own insults. You know this, so quit trying to act like people who disagree or put a different view is insulting you, and then you come out and call people 3 year olds.

It's pretty sad.

[stavka]

41. ...hrmmmm

I'm not sure that would be fair to have a student do a sentence map of, do they still do that? - sentence maps I mean?

Obviously you disagree with me, but I think you may have omitted some nouns and/or verbs

[Nimble_Idea]

45. yeah Mr smarty pants

keep yer lookin down on us hill billys.

:freak:

[stavka]

47. I Object!

...as a child of a broken home with no less than 4 mothers and 3 fathers...or something like that, I am offended by your negative comments regarding hills/and or/gentle slopes!

[StopTheMorans]

48. not a "loser" in rallying the base to causes that real "democrats"

actually believe in my friend...

[Cha]

33. Anyone who calls Dean "a loser" doesn't

know shit about politics.

[stavka]

35. So...I guess I should shut up, and stop helping....

thanks zidzi, you've made my next 16 months a lot simpler, and a lot cheaper. :)

[Cheswick2.0]

26. Nice Flame bait..... it's not going to work

[leesa]

27. He'd be a great chair. Very progressive and without fear.

Sounds like somebody swallowed the BS put out by the RNC corporate media.

[newsguyatl]

28. this coming from someone

who has a wellstone avatar? :eyes:


funny, robert novak was just saying the same thing... most rightwingers say this... and, ahem, you, of course.

[quaker bill]

29. Daschle for DNC

I would prefer to see Dean's efforts elsewhere. Something more like coming up with an alternative to the DLC or the "New Democrats". Something a good bit larger and with a bit more teeth.

Daschle needs a job. Let him be the head fundraiser, he is bland enough not to offend any likely contributor.

Nice flamebait.

[madfloridian]

30. LOL . I think Dean needs to be elsewhere as well. Daschle would be good

:hi:

[AntiCoup2K4]

54. Daschle??

Shit, if he led the DNC like he "led" the Senate, he'd be a record fundraiser....










....for the Republicans :puke:

Fuck Tom. While it sucks that we lost a Senate seat, especially due to Thune and racist interruption of the election, Daschle deserved to lose.

[Guaranteed]

38. That's totally ridiculous. Sounds like you don't even know anything

about the guy.

[StopTheMorans]

40. Dean will build the BASE; look at what Rove did to the GOP

if you want to pander to the GOP; great; why don't we just support outlawing abortions, giving guns to everyone, privatizing social security, and making *'s tax cuts for the uber-rich permanent? that would be a GREAT idea :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[stavka]

44. Doesn't Dean endorse "giving guns to morons"? (N/T)

[StopTheMorans]

46. federal guns rights is a losing issue; the smart states will legislate

guns rights accordingly...

[stavka]

49. I'm not sure what that means...several states hang in the balance

If for instance, the Dems took a strong anti-gun stance (whatever that means) Michigan would creep towards the republicans....

[StopTheMorans]

50. exactly, so leave it up to the states to decide

it appears that you agree with Dean (can't figure out where you're actually against the states deciding on guns rights argument?)...

[stavka]

52. ...Dems being anti-gun costs us votes...

I could care less where Howard Dean falls on the gun rainbow. He's already broken goods...even if he his the second coming

[StopTheMorans]

55. alright buddy, his "first coming" was to leave guns rights up to the

states; what don't you understand?

[StopTheMorans]

42. why haven't you responded to even ONE post in a thread you started?

don't feed the trolls...

[WI_DEM]

56. since you want to play it this way let me say this

Dean wouldn't have fared any worse than Kerry. I can't think of a single state Kerry won that Dean wouldn't have won too. The polls indicated that Dean would run about as well as Kerry. Since you want to start this little flame war let me add this, we don't know how Dean would have done for sure, but all of you "let's nominate Kerry because he will win" people were proved wrong.

[John_H]

57. C'mon. Dean will raise shitloads of $$ from the NRA, Pfizer, and

other large corporations, just like he did as DGA chairman.

[StopTheMorans]

58. so who do you want for DNC chair?

n/t

[Moderator]

61. Locking

this is flamebait.