Democrats call for transformation (Alabama)

[IndianaGreen]

Democrats call for transformation

State losses have party searching for new direction

By TAYLOR BRIGHT
BIRMINGHAM POST-HERALD

Alabama used to be full of Yellow Dogs, but some now say the state's Democratic Party is in the doghouse after Republicans gained in statewide elections and President Bush increased his margin of victory in the state.

The Democratic Party of Alabama erupted last week as the once invincible group began finger-pointing on the heels of an embarrassing showing in the Nov. 2 general election. Democrats in and out of the party structure began questioning the party's direction.

"Certainly there is some cause for worry," said David Lanoue, a professor of politics at the University of Alabama.

Within the party, four prominent Democrats called for the resignation of party chairman Redding Pitt.

http://www.postherald.com/me111504.shtml

[Doomsayer13]

1. Will Pitts father, huh

I'm unfamiliar with Alabama politics, but it's been a tough few years for Southern Democrats. Getting rid of one man wont change that.

[vetwife]

2. Yup ..sounds like it.........Will's Dad is in Alabama and state chair

[IndianaGreen]

6. The knives are out right now

and they are looking for someone to blame, and it matters little who that person happens to be.

[DianeG5385]

3. No Way! They have to come to us and we are in the "right"

They will come to their senses. They are common sense people and given time will see through the snake-oil salesmen. We need to give them a place to go that is non-threatening, but our values are our values.

[EST]

5. Maybe so

But getting pissed and firing a long-time stuck in the mud party boss might also be a good first step!

[geek tragedy]

8. The problem is Alabama itself, not the Democratic party.

The Dems should be proud that Alabamans reject Democratic candidates and values and positions.

50% of white Alabamans favor a ban on interracial marriage.

Fuck Alabama.

[EST]

11. Well-you can't fire Alabama!

At least, not yet. Would it be possible that you yourself, showing the courage of your convictions, might run for one of the party positions in Ala.? How about doing somethoing really crazy, like putting together a big group of like-minded friends and associates, then all of you reregister as republicans and form a local cabal within the thug party from where, in five or ten years, you could absolutely take over that party (quietly, of course) and turn it toward a better understanding of the fact that the color of your fur doesn't matter to dogs, cats, horses or people. The essential matter lies three centimeters back of your forehead and looks a whole lot like all the stuff that Jesus really taught about.

[geek tragedy]

12. I live in Brooklyn, and fighting the corrupt Brooklyn Democratic

machine is enough work! (I vote straight-ticket Working Families Party)

I have several family members and friends in Alabama, and everything I've heard leads me to think that the US government is the only thing preventing it from becoming a third world country.

[EST]

16. I stand corrected, but same rules apply.

With your big city experience and real world fighting ability, maybe you oughta go down there and straighten 'em out!
I do understand, having lived there for a time, although in the comparatively cosmopolitan town of Huntsville. There, the crime rate was quite low because the city fathers were the local mafia-equivalent and they didn't allow any shitting around on their territory!
My brother is a long time resident near Ft. Rucker and he fits perfectly. We don't talk much.

[Mike L]

52. Better for AL, SC and GA Dems to form some sort of coalition and

run socially conservative Dem candidates. At least we can get some Senators and Representatives who will vote with the National Party on economic issues. These states won't change for 50 years.

[southlandshari]

15. Link?

"50% of white Alabamans favor a ban on interracial marriage."

Do you have a link to the source on this claim?

[geek tragedy]

20. Check this out:

http://www.jbhe.com/features/37_white_racism.html


<snip>
In November 2000, voters in Alabama were presented with a referendum to repeal a ban on interracial marriage which had been part of that state's constitution since 1901. More than 525,000 voters in Alabama — some 40 percent of the total electorate — voted to keep this provision as part of the fundamental law of the state. In view of the fact that blacks make up more than 20 percent of the voting age population in the state, and in all likelihood voted almost unanimously to remove the ban, it is probable that a majority of the white voters in the state wished to keep the ban on interracial marriage as part of the Alabama constitution. In fact, the referendum to remove the ban was voted down by a majority of voters in 24 of Alabama's 67 counties.
<snip>

[southlandshari]

22. another perspective on that vote

found here:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/07/alabama.interracial/


My Alabama glass is still half full. We're not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But neither is New York City, nor are New Yorkers, collectively. But I'm not chucking any electronic pot shots north.

[geek tragedy]

24. White Alabamans support apartheid more than they support John Kerry.

The vote for racial purity got more votes than the Dems have recently.

I'm sure that a very large minority--up to 35-45%--of white Alabamans are decent human beings.

Unfortunately, they're outvoted by the Neanderthals.

[southlandshari]

26. Now we're getting somewhere!

I agree completely with your last post.

I am ashamed at recent votes in my state on both state and national issues and candidates.

I am also still willing to keep fighting for change here. And, as you have pointed out, so is a large minority of the population here (white and black)!

Thanks, Geek Tragedy. I've sparred with you often in the past couple of weeks, but never doubted that there was a lot of common ground between us. Please understand that the minute we Alabamians cease to feel under constant attack, we are the first to admit our state's shortcomings.

Now...any advice on fighting Neanderthals would be greatly appreciated!

=)

[geek tragedy]

28. I don't blame people for where they are born or happen to live.

Otherwise, I'd have to accept responsiblity for Bush and Pataki!

My best advice would be to make sure the education system works.

There may need to be a regional party for states like Alabama, Oklahoma, Mississippi--places where association with the national Democratic party will be toxic for at least twenty years.

[QC]

48. Almost 700,000 "Alabamans" voted for Kerry. You, on the other hand,

seem to do nothing for the party other than sow dissension among your fellow Democrats (if indeed you actually are a Democrat) by obsessively posting these ignorant broad-brush slams night and day from the safety of a place where Democratic registration approaches 90%.

Here's a little clue for someone who so desperately needs one: the people who voted to keep the ban on interracial marriage do not post here. Roy Moore's cultists do not post here. Falwellians and Dobsonites do not post here. If you want to carry the fight to such people, then go to a board where they hang out. But insulting and alienating those of us who are fighting the good fight in hostile territory simply does Rove's work for him.

[IndianaGreen]

9. Alabama Progressive Democrats (WWJD)

What would Jesus do? He would be a progressive!

More on the story:

One group, made up of supporters of Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich, both of whom sought the party's presidential nomination, is the Alabama Progressive Democrats.

<snip>

"When we're trying to out-Republican the Republicans, we lose," said Sherry Bohlen, an executive board member of the national Progressive Democrats of America.

The Progressives, Haynes said, can fight Republicans on the moral issue, which some pundits have said made the difference in the Nov. 2 election.

"We are about moral values, we are about helping the poor, we are about being tolerant," Haynes said. "It's a much more Christian attitude than what we're seeing from the right wing."

http://www.postherald.com/me111504.shtml

[geek tragedy]

10. A Republican governor even tried to sound these themes when

trying to reform its grossly immoral tax code.

The rightwing fundie vote crushed it.

Alabama is simply a lost cause to any decent voice or hope.

[southlandshari]

17. You are right

but it was a genuine combination of Democrats AND Republicans, led by progressive Christians in both parties, that worked tirelessly to try to get Riley's message across. I know, I was here.

I admit without hesitation that in the end, sadly, we were no match for ignorance fueled by the evil aka the Alabama Christian Coalition (even the National Christian Coalition went public AGAINST our state chapter's active stance against the tax reform package).

But thousands of us tried. Amendment One passed in my town 70% - 30%, in my county 60% - 40%. And this is a generally Republican county (voted for Bush by 67% this time around). We are not lemmings. When the message rings true and the messenger bothers to deliver it here, it shows.

Alabama is NOT a lost cause to any decent voice or hope.

Are you from Alabama? I'm not picking at you - I really want to know why you are so consistent in your condemnation of our state and all of the diverse folks who live here.

[geek tragedy]

21. Several friends there and family members too.

Though I refuse to speak to the family members.

Sample conversation from a visit they paid a few years ago:

My mother: What did you watch on TV?

Ala. relative: Oprah.

My mother: What were they talking about?

Ala. relative: It was just those screaming ni&&ers again.

[southlandshari]

23. Disown them

Ignore them. Make voodoo dolls in their likeness and poke pins in them daily. Whatever is therapeutic for you.

But do NOT lump me or other decent, thinking Alabamians in with these morans. Please.

I don't doubt your description for a minute. But is it really that impossible to believe that they are not representative of every single southerner, or Alabamian?

[geek tragedy]

25. I know there are good Alabamans.

But, they are a weak minority there.

As an electoral unit, Alabama is the enemy of progressive ideas.

The good guys cannot win there.

[SoCalDem]

30. "Blue" Alabamans need to move to Florida.. They could use the help

and the loss of a bunch of people in an "exodus-of-sorts" takes electoral votes AND tax revenues.. Vote with your feet, if you cannot get the message through at the voting booth..


People who own businesses in Alabama, can surely find willing employees in other places..

If there are too many hateful people to overcome, why keep banging heads on walls.. Just go where you can create change..:)

sidenote:

I have a 57 yr old friend who, to THIS day will never return to Alabama.. When he came home after VietNam, three locals grabbed him , and tried to lynch him.. He was IN UNIFORM...

His "crime".. He asked a white waitress in a diner to show him where the payphone was..He wanted to call his mother and sister to come and pick him up.. The diner was next door to the bus terminal..

He went outside to wait for them, and three guys came up from behind him and started dragging him away.. He scuffled with them, and a car came along and they got scared and ran off..

When his mother and sister picked him up, he went home, got his stuff and headed for Chicago the next day.. never went back.. never will

[geek tragedy]

31. There are hundreds of thousands who can't move, though

I really feel for them.

[SoCalDem]

32. It might be cheaper to HELP them move instead of tossing money

down a rathole election after election :shrug:

Come on DNC..think outside the box

[geek tragedy]

33. What's frustrating is that lots of African-Americans are moving back TO

places like Georgia et al from the North.

Oy.

[SoCalDem]

34. Well maybe if ENOUGH of them do, it might change

do we have time to wait though??

[QC]

47. Believe it or not, some people have to work for a living,

which means that they do not have the luxury of just moving wherever they please whenever they happen to get the urge.

It's precisely that sort of arrogant, condescending cluelessness that has made liberals about as popular as prostate cancer in much of the country.

[EST]

13. I spent a bit of my life pastoring churches and leading

the hard souled believers toward a real evaluation of their lives and a knowledge of what could work. Seems to me, a person could come up quickly through the southern baptist convention and become a solid source of good and wisdom in an otherwise blinded by tradition organization. A good control of one's gagging reflex might be a useful tool and well worth developing, but sacrifice is what's required to produce the world we want-not just protest.

[IndianaGreen]

18. Mainstream Christians need to become more vocal

and condemn the extremists that are hijacking their religion. We have the same problem in Judaism and we already know the problem that mainstream Muslims are having with their own extremists.

[EST]

27. How can we tell them and make them understand?

An axe handle between the eyes can be useful, but it's hard work and tough to convert 'em en masse...

[Mike L]

51. Funny. You're living in fantasy land.

They don't have to come to anyone.

[Julien Sorel]

4. Entire article should be required reading for the Angry People

who blame all the Democrats' ills on the DLC, and want to move the party to the left.

[Cheswick2.0]

40. I did read the entire article on the Peopleforchange site

where it was posted yesterday or the day before. It didn't change my my mind about the utter incompetance and craven behavior of the DLC.

[geek tragedy]

7. Democratic core values are simply inconsistent with backwards cesspools

like Alabama.

Quite honestly, they should just pull up stakes out of everywhere but the Democratic-voting Congressional Districts.

The local party there simply will never win so long as it is associated with the national party.

There really should be two parties in Alabama--the Sane Republican Party and the Absolutely Evil and Crazy Republican Party.

Those are the only values and candidates that have a chance there.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[southlandshari]

19. Thanks for the post

not agreeing or disagreeing with anything in the article (at least not publicly!), just appreciate the heads up that it is out there!

Thanks, IndianaGreen!

[fujiyama]

29. We have almost come 180 degrees

from where it was in the south in the Civil War. At that time almost all office holders were democrats.

Now we've seen the switch....and this switch is due to race and civil rights. The south as a region is conservative and not open to progressive ideas. The democratic party to many down there has become "the party of n*ggers. Well, we as a party shouldn't try pandering to 'em. There's little left. A republican governor tried a tax increase on the rich. The poor voted against it.

Forget Alabama and Mississippi. They're lost causes. I think even Georgia and Louisiana are off the table in near term elections.

On edit: I know some generalizations are broad and I know that there are some decent people down there...so I apologize to the DU deep southerners. I do believe ya'll are definetely greatly outnumbered.

[Julien Sorel]

35. You simply cannot give up on those people

and expect to be a majority party. Even if they reject our national candidates, we have to be able to win local races to control congress. And we aren't doing it.

[fujiyama]

36. THat's true

but I meant in terms of future presidential elections.

LA for example, still has some potential on most statewide races. We had a disappointing race this time (where we didn't get the runoff), but we still have chances on a statewide basis (after all they elected a governor a year or two ago , albeit a DINO).

However, I still think that these are lesser priorities and there is only so much we can do.

[Cheswick2.0]

41. yes we do have to win there...but the DLC has no freaking idea how to

do that. People don't need to be pandered too, they need to be told the truth about issues that they care about.

[SharonAnn]

37. They were Dixicrats, not Democrats. They didn't stand for what

the Democratic party believes in, they stood for what today's Republican party believes in.

[LadyinRed]

38. Axehandles ......

is that how it's done in other cesspools.

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstateterrorism/policestate/PoliceBrutality.html

Hate Crimes reported by City and State.
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/hatewatch/fortherecord.jsp

US map of each state and Hate Organizations being tracked
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp


Democrats of the south appreciate true concern for the party.
We're not reverting back to methods used decades ago as some larger cites have.

Y'all got some real problems.............

[Fleaksk]

43. Im from alabama.

Me being from Alabama, about that tax increase, I voted against it. The reason being is because I dont want anyone to get their taxes raised when there is so much mismanagement of money already at the state level in Alabama.

You can say it was a wrong vote, I voted for the Lottery (which lost) but I couldnt see sending more money to an organization that can't handle their money they have coming in now.

And if you must know, im neither Democrat or republican, im purely independent. In the national government I would like it to be so small because frankly voters have more say in local government operations and would trust them more. I will give you an example of how local governments can be controlled when it comes to spending, laws made and so on. California and the governor recall. In a local government you can get rid of the leaders if they arent doing you justice.

Sorta like all the abortion, gun control, same sex marriage, and so on, I feel that should be handled at the state per the 10th amendment.

And if you must know, im pro-choice except for partial birth abortion. Im for some gun control, like I myself do have some weapons, I keep them at the local Police armory because frankly I dont want them stolen and someone killed with them. And I do have them because I like to go to the range and shoot them. Some may not think it would be all that fun, but it is sorta like playing darts, you get better and better, it is a sport to me.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. So you

voted to keep in place a system that taxes the poor heavily and the rich hardly at all?

If you're a Christian, do a little Bible reading to see what Jesus and the ancient prophets such as Isaiah and Jeremiah had to say about those who favor the rich over the poor.

[Fleaksk]

46. reply to Lydia

Actually the tax increase wasnt lowering taxes on the poor. It was just raising taxes, and I feel the way that Clinton sorta did things. Don't do stuff unless you have the funding to pay for it. I myself have a brother, he is terrible with money, im sure some of you have friends or family members the same way. Do I love my brother? Yes of course...Would I give my brother money for some unknown reason...hell no I wouldnt. That is what I feel about the government.

I dont like putting my money into an orginization that uses it as toilet paper and so on.

[newyawker99]

45. Hi Fleaksk!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Stuckinthebush]

39. Understanding politics in the south

Especially in Alabama.....

The Republicans you see today in Alabama (and the rest of the South) are the same people who were Democrats 10 to 20 years ago. Remember, the South was Democratic because Lincoln won the war. The old "Dixiecrats" had absolutely nothing in common with todays Democrats. Most were raised at the knee of Jim Crow.

The total shift to the Republican Party in the South was inevitable after the social change of the 60s, and the Democratic Party's embracing of social programs, social change, and rejection of the status quo. Southern Democrats of the 60s, 70s, and 80s were always at odds with the party when it came to policy. But remember, the Democrats were the majority party for a very long time, and so it made sense for Southern politicians to remain in the party in order to get needed funds to their home states.

Then Reagan came along.

These Southern Democrats loved Reagan. They felt a kinship with his ideas and policies, and loved his simplicity. The Southerners remained Democrats for the most part, but a few quietly slipped away from the fold.

Then Clinton showed up.

That was it. The last straw for many of the Southern Democrats. They couldn't stand to be in the same party as Clinton, and they had new up and comers in the Republican Party to admire - Newt Gingrich comes to mind.

In the early nineties, Richard Shelby, a long time Alabama Democrat, switched parties very soon after re-election. He saw the writing on the wall and jumped ship. The Alabama electorate (still most would call themselves Democrats at this time) were not offended in the least. They understood Mr. Shelby's internal conflict with being in the same party as that awful Bill Clinton. Shelby is a smart politician (kind of an idiot on other things, however), and he assured himself 20 more years in the Senate with that move.

When Howell Heflin retired from the Senate (you remember Howell - he was the one that pulled out a pair of women's panties to wipe his forehead during a Senate Committee meeting), it opened the door for a true young Republican to fill his seat. Along comes Jeff Sessions - a dolt if ever there was one, but a true blue Republican. Sessions wins handily and will be in the Senate until he is 90 years old (and will still be doing absolutely nothing).

The US House seats also quickly were filled with Republicans either replacing long seated Democrats or Democrats turned Republican. The State Gubernatorial races were beginning to go to Republicans such as Guy Hunt, Fob James, and Bill Riley - all one time Democrats. Hell, even respected judges such as Sandra Ross Storm in Jefferson County's family court switched to the Republican party to the dismay of their supporters. It became the politically expedient thing to do.

So here we are in the 21st century. We have one wonderful Democrat in the US house from a minority district - Artur Davis. Our State office holders are mostly Republican. Interestingly, our house and senate are still controlled by the Dems, but they are not the Dems we know and love, they are Republicanized Dems.

The South is Republican because of old, entrenched bigotry, beliefs, and fear. 2/3 of the electorate vote Republican in the national races because the Republicans appeal to their simple view of the world and their fears of the other. I have seen it happen time and again down here, and I don't see it changing.

If the national Democrats want a piece of the South, they will have to become more moderate (read: more Republican), abandon social issues that are important to progressives, and appeal to the god, guns, and gays thought process.

By the way, if that happens, then this Southern Democrat will have no political home in the Democratic Party and will be forced to leave and find a new home. There is the rock and hard place the Dems find themselves in - the rock of becoming more Republicanized and lose many of your base voters, and the hard place of staying the same and lose more of the swing or moderate voters. I think the hard place has some loose spots, however, and that we need to retain our values and appeal to the critical thinking moderates. If we move to the center right, then the party will die.

As for Alabama, I take the small victories and never hope for the large. It will not change as long as we minimize education and place reactionary religion in a place of honor.

[ithacan]

42. interesting parallel with NYS GOP

which is saying much the same thing, check out the New York forum for an article on that.

What we're seeing I think is a regional realignment. The Republican party nationally is so extreme that it's beyond the mainstream conservatives in the NE, including in New York State. This is hurting NYS GOP.

Seems that the problem for Dems in Alabama is different, given how centrist the Democratic party is.

In Alabama and other places in the south, isn't the Republican party now the White Party, while the Dems are a Multiracial Party?

[Walt Starr]

49. I think the Democratic Leadership top to bottom should be dumped

Anybody who previous to this election held a position of leadership should take responsibility and resign that position immediately.

I mean this on all levels in any state where the GOP made inroads. Obviously Illinois Democrats are doing something right (or more aptly Illinois Republicans are doing everything wrong), but this is the appropriate step for Alabama to take!

[Mike L]

50. I imagine Alabama is like SC and GA.

The only way for Dems to win in those states is to run populist Dems who agree with the electorate on cultural issues. I'm from SC, so I know what I'm talking about. For some reason, NC doesn't fit in the same general mold as these three states.

Hey, at least this new breed of Southern Dem (old breed w/o the racism) will give the Party half a loaf. That's better than none, whether the ultra-left will admit it or not.

[WI_DEM]

53. the party lost in all of the south by larger margins than '00

and part of it is because the national ticket didn't put any money into any of these states. You're not going to get people to vote for you if they only hear one side of the story. We should have contested hard states like West Virginia, Missouri, Arkansas, Louisiana, North Carolina and Virginia, along with Florida. I believe Kerry got only 37% in Alabama compared to 43% for Gore in 2000. The lack of exposure and money in many southern states hurt the ticket down the line.