The Mandate

[WilliamPitt]

"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. It will preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life."

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Adolph Hitler, 'My New World Order,'
Proclamation to the German Nation at Berlin,
February 1, 1933

[Demi_Babe]

1. sounds familiar

[Zynx]

2. Hitler, like Bush, is also cynical about the whole Christian thing.

Hitler, as is clear in his private conversations and dealings, didn't believe in much of anything and used whatever he needed in order to gain power. One way was through manipulating Christianity. I believe Bush is much the same way. I don't think he believes half the crap he says, but uses Christianity to manipulate the politics of this country.

[PurityOfEssence]

5. Don't believe that for a second

Many truly ugly people sincerely believe in the personal god and use it for power. You don't know he didn't believe.

I'm absolutely sick of the selfish disconnect of believers. Shitheadedness is an equal-opportunity affliction.

Regardless of whether he was a "real" Christian (and to most believers, only "nice" people are, since the faith is by definition "good") he used religion to justify his willfulness. THAT is the true problem: religion is deemed "better" than non-belief, and "good" by definition. Religion used in public discourse and politics is inherently anti-democratic: it expects to be above reproach, proof, evidence or any other constraint.

Believers are NOT morally superior to non-believers, and many believers are outright rotters. Obviously, there are many non-believers who are merely self-serving skunks, but those who live their lives as engaged members of society tend to be a pretty decent lot.

Please present your evidence of Hitler's private conversations; to my study, he was quite reticent about this.

As for Junior, he may or may not believe, but dismissing him as a non-believing user is not only an insult to, and indeed an attack upon those of us who don't believe, it's unfounded and self-congratulatory. It's bad enough to be slagged and marginalized by a society that thinks that the common guess is good, but to have that weight brought against us is nauseating. He uses your guess; it's your job to slam him, not dismiss him as a non-believer.

Accept the extreme guilt of those of your belief system, as I do those of mine, and stop the denial.

Use of the belief is the problem; I don't really care what people believe. If you can't accept that believers of a supreme being can't be absolute dicks, then you need some history readin' to jostle your mind.

We're gonna get fucked by believers now, and you, by your denial are helping.

Now that I've excoriated you, I back off a bit to remind you that caring about one's fellow man and attempting to construct a society that makes sense and plays fair is the goal; I'm sure you are of this mindset and are deeply annoyed by having that which you hold dear used by others for evil ends. My point is that they may actually believe, and even if they don't, they gain purchase with people who consider belief superior.

Dammit.

[LittleClarkie]

11. Sort of like a gun, it depends on how you use it

Someone can be perfectly pious and perfectly wrong in their beliefs. I'm not going to hide my faith, but neither do I find it a good thing that a certain segment of Christian is trying to dictate what I do politically.

I appreciate what Kerry said in the third debate about how faith shapes his values, and thereby the decisions he makes based on those values.

I happen to believe that those who voted for Bush because they find him moral are misguided.

And I can accept that Bush is a Christian man. But I've met former addicts like him who use their faith as a life-preserver. I could never get them to face reality in an arguement either. For some reason, using faith in this way can make a person quite pig-headed. Not always, but often.

There is the opposing arguement that says Bush only discovered "religion" when he discovered Evangelicals as a voting block. Hence, it is not a put down to non-believers to say Bush may be a non-believer who has discovered that if he acts pious enough, he can get a certain block of voters to follow him around.

I fear that he indeed thinks he has a mandate from God. I cringe to see Farwell and Robertson coming out of the woodwork. I cringe to see the choices he's making now that he doesn't have to worry about reelection. If the religious agenda continues, I will be that much more convinced he's indeed a believer.

But that won't make him right. Beware false prophets.

[PurityOfEssence]

12. Yep

It must be frustrating to have the belief you hold dear and from which you find hope and warm security being used to oppress and kill. You have my sympathies, and please know that I am an ally.

Remember that affiliation isn't true camaraderie; you are closer to my heart than many whose religious belief is more in tune with mine, and by the the tenor of your post, I'll bet you'd probably say the same.

I share your fear of him and his ilk; we don't know what they can do, and we know what's possible.

Sharpton put it best when he said that it was a battle between the Christian Right and the Right Christians.

What resounding horse shit we now face on a daily basis: the encroachment of religion as a justification for actions in the public realm has advanced to such a degree that this country is unrecognizable. Citing religion as a source for policy doesn't bother me, but using it as a justification of it does. Such esoteric hairsplitting is now as quaint as Gonzalez considers the Geneva Convention to be.

Thanks for the post. I hope you can mobilize some of your brethren to help us stave off the totalitarianism that's just over the horizon; as an agnostic, I get increasingly less participation in this society.

[LittleClarkie]

13. Proud to say that many in my church feel the same

I was in the paper with my Kerry gear on, praying at a returns party on Nov. 2. As a result, people at my church will come up to me and start talking about it. I think that several of them will be ready to do more as things get progressively worse. As it was, I was proud of several of them for wanting yard signs in a very, very Red county. They give me hope that not all Christian folk are buying what Bush is selling. If someone tells me ONE MORE TIME that God is a Republican, I'm gonna snap.

Thanks for the kind words. Indeed, it's frustrating. But I will keep trying to get people to understand.

[ZombieNixon]

3. That's chilling.

No more.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. Now shut up and get in your gas chamber

[TeddyKGB]

6. Bush is NOT Hitler.

"He would be, if he applied himself." - Margaret Cho

[PurityOfEssence]

10. so true; Hitler was a war hero

Four years in the trenches shows some grit.

Lets hope Junior overextends himself enough to bring himself down.

[Zorra]

7. You got me. I thought it was a * quote. n/t

[Stephanie]

8. If Bush truly DOES believe in the rapture, etc.

And if there's any HINT that he would actually enable such a scenario -

Then wouldn't Europe be within their rights to pre-emptively stop him before he blows us all up?

I mean, really, couldn't they? Would they? If a madman believes he has a direct line to God, and believes he has a role to play in Armageddon, and if he takes any steps in that direction, then I think rational governments would be within their rights to do something about it.

Europe, I am begging you.

[kentuck]

9. As if I weren't paranoid enough already !

:scared: