I will leave the Democratic Party...

[Rufus T. Firefly]

if they don't grill Rice and Gonzales in the confirmation hearings.

I'd like them to be blocked, but that's a lot to ask. I just want them blasted with all the facts about 9/11 and the torture memo and incompetence and helping Dubya with his DUI. I want their asses handed to them before they get into the cabinet.

If it's all "Well, we don't have a problem with you," I'm leaving. I will be ashamed to be called a Democrat, because that will imply I have no spine, since my leaders would not have one.

Maybe we should start the Liberal Progressive Party.

[whistle]

1. Is there a Howard Dean party?

[Howardx]

4. i hope he starts one!

soon!

[lojasmo]

9. There should be

I'm out of the party anyway. The heir aparents of the DLC and of the senate minority are enough to prove to me that the demos haven't learned crap from the last five years.

Looking forward to a progressive independent in 2008. Until then, I'll be helping local progressive candidates.

[tedzbear]

53. I agree!

For the time being I registered Green Party. But who knows, they might merge with the other progressive parties and create a powerful left wing block.

The next 4 years will be interesting as the Democratic party implodes over the DLC's mistaken agenda and the Repugs' ruthless partisanship.

[Julien Sorel]

74. "A powerful left wing bloc."

Not counting the Democrats, left wing candidates got about a combined 1% of the vote nationwide. I suppose that's power, if you look at it in the right way.

[WilliamPitt]

51. Yup. It's called 'The Democratic Party'

You can ask him. He'll tell you the same thing.

[genius]

70. This is my fear about Reid. Anyone think they can talk him into stepping

down?

[smartasspol]

2. Liberal Progressive Party.

aren't they the greens?

[newyawker99]

75. Hi smartasspol!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[JuniorPlankton]

3. I understand your frustration

The real question is: Where will you go?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

8. Could go Green, just for principles.

Don't get me wrong - I'd still vote Democrat. I'm tired of giving money to the DNC when they pretty much can't accomplish a damn thing. We lose power in the House & Senate 10 years ago and we're no closer to getting it back than we were in '96. No big "Contract With America"-style Democratic efforts, which obviously worked for the Rethugs.

The fact that we lost this past election shows me we need to start over somewhere. Howard Dean as head of the party would keep me, for sure.

Hell, I'm already volunteering for Kinky Friedman's independent campaign for Texas governor in 2006. www.kinkyfriedman.com.

[RafterMan]

5. What if they go 1 for 2?

I can see Gonzales getting hammered, but not Condi.

[leftynyc]

26. Oh, I don't know about that

I think they can knock Condi around pretty well for that 8/6/01 memo, the phantom WMD, aluminum tube lie and several other things.

[RafterMan]

32. I didn't mean they *couldn't*

I meant they *wouldn't*. It was not a judgement, but a prediction -- the Congress seems determined ignore the Administration's troubles with 9/11 and the Dems don't have clean hands on the Iraq thing, but the torture memos don't seem to have been put off limits yet.

[prole_for_peace]

6. The Democtratic party needs to stop trying to be nice

an conciliatory to the other side. Not bashing * didn't work at either the Democratic convention nor during the campaign. We need to work on making the repugs accountable and showing a sharp contrast between the two parties.

[crasmane]

7. I feel very close to leaving myself.

The Democratic Party isn't really a party, nor is it Democratic any more. There was no resistance at all to the illegal wars, no attempt to confront the rule by fear in the wake of 9/11, and there is still no assertion of difference.
If there is no difference, if both parties have become corporate pets and neoconservative fawns, then it's time for a third party and the eventual dissolution of the Democratic party.
WE have some real battles to fight, and no one speaks for us.
Our nation is guilty of horrible crimes against itself and against the international community, and no one addresses the issue.
Our economy is nearing collapse, people will suffer, and the governmental imperative to serve the public will collapse as well.
Now, some of us may be nostalgiac for the late 19th, early 20th century, but I'm sure than if you've read any naturalistic and realistic fiction of the era, you don't feel the same.
The suffering and sense of being herded into a meat-grinder of desperation were all real then. I fear a similar time awaits, accompanied by abject indifference on the part of corporate & power elites.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

10. Amen.

[auburngrad82]

28. Exactly where would you go? GOP? It's a two party state, like it or not

[Rufus T. Firefly]

41. There aren't any independents?

And if the Dems don't fight, it's a ONE party state.

[pmbryant]

43. There are, but unless they vote D or R, they are irrelevant

The nature of our system dictates as much. In winner-take-all, plurarity voting, as we have, third parties and independents only serve to play the role of spoiler.

Even Ross Perot and George Wallace couldn't change that dynamic.

--Peter

[Rufus T. Firefly]

45. I'd vote Democrat

But I don't want to prop up people like Daschle who roll over. Good riddance.

[ever_green]

71. It doesn't have to be that way, that is the very reason we are so WEAK

The fewer choices we have, the worse those choices are going to be. By forcing people to vote for a candidate who sucks vs. a candidate who sucks less, we are TRAPPED.

[pmbryant]

78. If you feel that way, get to work on primary challenges

If you think general election candidates suck, then you should be working hard in the primaries to get a candidate you like nominated.

Yes, in general elections we only have 2 real choices: D or R.

But in primaries you can have a huge range of choices. It is then your job to convince a plurality of your fellow D's to vote for the candidate you like, or at least against the candidate you think sucks.

Going 3rd party is dooming yourself to irrelevance. It is inevitable in our system.

Work the primaries!

--Peter

[St. Jarvitude]

67. The Whig party collapsed

I predict a similar fate for the Democratic Party.

It was the Kansas-Nebraska Act that did the (weak and divided... gee, sound familiar?) Whigs in. What will do us in?

[Hephaistos]

35. Everybody proclaiming wanting to leave is a Rove tool

Rove and his buddies want to divide us further - don't help them.

There won't be any successful third-party candidates in the forseeable future, and no, it has nothing to do with 'just making it happen'.

Instead, consider working with a non-party progressive group like MoveOn. They are the future of our side, not the party itself.

[tedzbear]

54. Amen again.

eom

[Walt Starr]

11. I'm considering changinfg from (D - Pink tutus) to...

(I - At least a shred of dignity remaining).

At least then, I'd be considered a swing voter.

[BuelahWitch]

34. Me too

[Gold Metal Flake]

60. I was an I for a long time.

I switched to D for this election. Now....

However, at least this election put be mack in touch with my Progressive nature, and my serious Liberal leanings. I intend to never allow myself to become discouraged again. So, if I can not feel than my fellows in the Party are working for me, then I must find a party that will.

If we allow ourselves to believe that we can not bring another party into prominance, then we are as prisoners. If the Democratic party continues to move to the right and play dog toy, then we must leave them.

When the dollars begin to obviously flow in another direction and the forces on the ground refuse to be tapped for phone banks and pamphlet dispersal, then you will see a flurry of PR activity. Then you will know that they are worried. Then you will know that the tyranny of the "lose at all costs" faction of the Democratic party can be beat.

Now, to find a reasonable direction for activity. But first, it's back to I.

[andyhappy]

12. registered green

but I was so on board with kerry and now I feel like he has spit at me for my efforts.

I hope hope is on the way, but I stopped holding my breath a week ago.

I was really considering joining up, but now...I dunno...I just don't think that the democrats even want to represent people like me.

I am starting to feel like I shoulda just gone ahead and voted for nader. I mean look at him, he is fighting a battle now with the recount that he doesn't even have a stake in!

WHERE IS KERRY?

sigh...

[info being]

13. Why not Green?

If enough liberals dems go to the Green Party, it just might be a force to be reckoned with.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

15. Already thinking about it.

I might run for Congress from the 2nd District of Texas as a Green in 2006...seriously.

It USED to be the 9th with Nick Lampson, but I'm sure you know what came of DeLay's remapping of Texas.

[Teaser]

23. Going green won't work.

Our system isn't set up for third parties. It takes an event like a slaver/civil war to get one started successfully.

Going Green would be an asinine move.

[American Tragedy]

46. Perhaps on the local or state level, but never national

unless the system itself is changed. For example, under the current electoral process as designated by the Constitution, a third party would not only have to capture the most electoral votes, but also hold a majority in the House in order to be elected President.

[Walt Starr]

50. I prefer 100% Independent

Then both the Republicrats and the Democans will want my vote.

:silly:

[ever_green]

73. That's true, I know many people who would do that

How many people do you know who voted for Kerry because he was electable, he was "the other choice". They just wanted Bush out. If we organized, I know there a lot of us out here who don't like the direction of the democratic party.

[sonicx]

14. if dems haven't grilled Rice and Bush for 9/11 yet...

why would they start now?

[LiberalEconomist]

16. Once upon a time the Republicans severed their ties with

the Whigs and gave us President Abraham Lincoln. It is time for us to do the same. How about the Democracy For America Party. We can call ourselfs the Dofas for DFA. Ehhh, sounds too much like dufus, nevermind. Any ideas?

[Killarney]

17. Looking forward to losing in 2008, too! Yipee!

I'm so sick of "the Democratic party doesn't always do what I WANT them to do, so I'm taking my ball and going home."

As the Republicans rally around their candidate no matter what, we're stuck with a bunch of whiners who piss and moan about every little thing and fracture the party. Then we wonder why we lose all the time. Duh. Sure, we can disagree, but all this you have to do what I WANT or I'll vote for a third party crap is bullshit. Do some people just love losing?

[LiberalEconomist]

18. Wow, and doing it the same old way is better how?

The corporate elite is in charge of both parties. You actually believe that the populists in either party actually have a significant say? Hardly, we are there to keep them in power. So, I say no more. The can take their Joe Liebermans and Bill Clintons and shove em.

[Killarney]

20. Hey, if you think Bush did a better job than Gore would have

then go right ahead and keep voting third party. Because moderate Gore would have been horrible, right?

Gore wouldn't have gone to war with Iraq.
Gore wouldn't have pissed away the social security funds--they'd be in his lockbox.
Gore wouldn't have handed out gigantic tax cuts to the rich and then had to slash programs that help education, children, the poor, the elderly, etc.
Gore wouldn't have pissed on the environment.
Gore may have even prevented 9/11.

But, he's not perfect. So, some of us couldn't suck it up and vote for him. Too bad.

[Cuban_Liberal]

21. Leaving you to support...

... some 3rd-party candidate with about as much chance of being elected POTUS as pigs have of learning to fly? Yeah, that'll show those guys!

:eyes:

[auburngrad82]

29. Corporate Elite is a GOP catchphrase

A vote for any party except Dems is a vote for GOP.

Third party candidates cannot win on a national scale.

[Teaser]

24. This place is full of pissy whiners.

I totally agree. They don't know how to do politics.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

38. If by "doing politics" you mean getting along with Bush & Co.

Then you're right - we don't know anything about that.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

36. So we should stick with our party no matter what?

If it doesn't fight for what I believe in, then I can't stay. I'm not a Republican. I won't swear a loyalty oath like the GOP does.

Is it too much to ask for the Dems to actually ACT like an opposition party as long as they are in the minority and not just every 4 years?

[ohioan]

42. Hear, hear!

[Walt Starr]

52. The ones fracturing the Party are the DLC who move the Party to the Right

leaving the electorate with no clear distinction between the Republicrats and the Democans.

[tedzbear]

56. I'm not whining. I have gone bye-bye and joined the Greens.

I don't give a fuck anymore. Let the DLC keep shooting itself in the feet until they fall off and rot.

[Dancing_Dave]

19. There are some really cool Democratic Governors (even in Kansas)

But the party in Washington totally lost their nerve after Tom Daschle received some Anthrax from a U.S. military lab in his mail.
They signed on to the Patriot Act and buckled under to the Bush Regime.

I would like to see a 2008 ticket with Howard Dean and some Democratic Governor from the West to give the ticket balance and freshness. Breakout of the whole beltway spin zone!:headbang:

[SmokingJacket]

22. Would be a good idea, if the repubs split up too.

But if they're going to continute to unite behind one big giant platform, we're just going to splinter ourselves into irrelevance.

Not that I have a solution, either, though.

:(

[Bush was AWOL]

25. They should be grilled, thoroughly

but some of you guys won't be happy until the Democrats have about 30 seats left.

They are the minority and they have to pick and choose their battles.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. No matter how many seats they have

they can still show some guts.

No non-Republicanite is going to vote against the Dems simply because they asked pointed questions of a couple of nominees.

[Bush was AWOL]

30. I fully expect-as most others do-that they'll ask tough questions

but both will get through.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

44. So since Bush started Iraq and was re-elected

Then by your logic we shouldn't oppose the war. No thanks.

Picking and choosing our battles is what lost us the election. Too much on Iraq and terror and not enough on jobs and the economy.

[StopTheMorans]

31. smell ya later

[w4rma]

33. Somebody call the Whaambulance.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

37. So, you agree we should just let Bush's people in without a fight?

If you do, then your kind should be the ones leaving. We're better off without Daschle, and better off without the appeasers who vote to confirm people like Ashcroft.

[StopTheMorans]

40. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

:evilgrin:

[ohioan]

39. I have a feeling that no matter how tough the Dems' questions are

some people STILL won't be satisfied and will blast them for not jumping off the dais and beating her to a pulp.

[ventvon]

47. What would they "grill" them for?

Just to make you feel good?

They are going to be confirmed anyway.

No need to drag it out, find something else to grill this administration on, like rewriting the tax code.

[CityDem]

48. Who gives a rip

They can knock them around in the hearings, but they will still be approved. Asscroft and Goss were knocked around in the hearings, but they were approved. I am tired of moral victories or hard fought battles that we lose.

[rniel]

49. They'd rather dance than fight...

hint..hint..wink..wink..nudge..nudge

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

55. Bye!

[tedzbear]

59. Adios.

Meanwhile I am adding the Green Party to my donation list along with the ACLU and PETA.

Plus I am going to actively volunteer for my local Green Party chapter. Woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!

:bounce:

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

61. Good for you!

How many times are you going to tell us?

[Forkboy]

62. another fine example

I do appreciate their points of view...

It shows :eyes:

[bullimiami]

57. Liberal and Progressive is already the Green Party.

There are liberal subgroups within the dem party. I think its fine to have moderates and there is even room for foolishly right lieberman.

Its about having discussions. Its about the government serving the people and not the people serving the government. Im a lefty but Im cool with a big tent.

[LiberalEconomist]

58. Ok, I went over the line in an earlier post

really DFA should not be a separate party at all. Really, what we need is for the populist wing of the Democratic party to provide some real countervailing force against the corporate wing. The democratic party is about "we the people..." not about "we the dot.com, ponytailed, Starbucks sipping yuppies" or about "we the multinational corporation CEOs." I will be overly dramatic and say that our party, the Democratic party, can only regain its dominance when it truly reconfigure its position to "we the people" along with "liberty and justice of all."

[donheld]

63. Boy you'll sure show them

you'll teach them a lesson they won't soon forget.

[lessthanjake]

64. Gonzalez will get confirmed and so will rice.

Gonzalez will get his ass handed to him though. Rice wont.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

65. I'll be the first to welcome you back

when you're tired of freezing your ass off out in the cold.

[willysnout]

66. Don't Let The Door Hit You In The Ass On The Way Out

[newyawker99]

76. Hi willysnout!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Teaser]

68. That would be the move of a wimp.

Threatening to leave if you don't get your way is a sign one has no guts to fight for the soul of the party. Don't be a wimp.

[Dr Fate]

69. I'll always vote straight DEM- but I'll not work hundreds of hours...

...for them again- until I see them LISTENING to their ground troops.

THAT is one of their bigest problems.

[ever_green]

72. If we all "leave" we can actually get something done!

If we leave to start a new party, one that actually represents us, it would work. I'm tired of this.
This two party system is pretty much a ONE party system, we have no REAL choice.

[elehhhhna]

77. I'm with you. Constitution Party? Rights Party? What?