Why are we talking about altering our platform over 130,000 votes?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

I'd really like to make this a long thread with loads of REALPOLITIK, but frankly..I don't have any. We came within 130,000 votes of winning...why would we need to alter our entire platform to appease people we'll never appease at the risk of losing those that do support us.

[bullimiami]

1. the platform isnt the real problem

its the fraud.

Platform arguments are fine, we should always be having them. I for one am a lot further left than most of the democratic party. Kucinich i agree with but my heart is Green.

That said. We can have discussions all we want but we cant win a rigged election.

[ibegurpard]

10. I agree with you BUT

we have SERIOUS message and messenger problems that provide plausible cover for fraud.
And I said MESSAGE not PLATFORM.

[LiberalFighter]

20. It is the message

By both the Democrats and the Repugs

We have to spell out what the People's Party is all about and not let the repugs get away with their lies.

Considering all the tools available to us we should be able to fight this.

[blondeatlast]

26. If you are concerned about the message, join the "Frame the Debate"

group; found here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=252

[The Flaming Red Head]

21. Me too!!!! I agree 125%

[DenverDem]

2. We didn't really LOSE, it was stolen!!!

Our platform freaking WON THE ELECTION.

To quote Gil Scott-Heron, "Mandate, my ASS!!"

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. We came within 130 000 votes

and we may have actually have gotten, Diebold... thsi is the first priority, we need paper records

After that, why we lost? We did not go after this boy with a passion, country hicks like people who "stand on principles" and who are "moral"

Ok here is where we must change the message. ATTACK, attack more and then some more, that is what people like fine. And attack them on MORALS

Yes OUT all GAY REPUBLICANS, and I mean it

Go after them with a passion, stay out ofo going after the families

Have investigations, and for god sakes we need our own media machine....

[jjmalonejr]

4. It's not the plaform, it's not the fraud, it's the message.

We don't need to appease people by changing what we believe in, we need to learn to communicate with Southern voters, rural voters, and Christian voters to demonstrate that we actually DO have common values.

Of course, you can't reach everyone, and no party is ever going to agree on everything, but we can reach a consensus if we have the right conversation.

[Cuban_Liberal]

9. Go to the head of the class!

:thumbsup:

[jjmalonejr]

13. Thanks, but I'll stay in the back row

I'll raise my hand whenever I think I have something smart and insightful to say.

That won't affect my grade, will it?

[Cuban_Liberal]

17. You still get an 'A'.

:hi:

[jjmalonejr]

32. Thanks!

:headbang:

[sandnsea]

5. Kerry said it today

He said we didn't lose on moral values. He also is pointing to 50,000 votes in Ohio, so he must be paying attention to the voting there. He says the problem was the terror, terror, terror being shoved at people. And he points to the most hateful and distorted campaign he's ever seen. I agree. We don't need to compromise, we need to add information as to why the Democratic Party is still right on social, economic, foreign policy and even military issues. And we need to expose the right wing hate machine.

[spooky3]

8. I also agree.

[ibegurpard]

11. Here's what drives me absolutely bonkers:

"And he points to the most hateful and distorted campaign he's ever seen."

If he and other Democratic "leaders" couldn't have seen that coming then what world do they live in???

[sandnsea]

12. They saw it coming

I think the plan was to let them be vulgar nasty liars and expose their tactics once and for all. What they may not have expected is for the media to label both campaigns as doing the attacking or having lies treated the same as harsh truths.

[charlie]

22. How could they not expect that?

That's been SOP for the major media for years.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. To Charlie and Ibegurpard

We all know it's been SOP but we have also been told that negativity suppresses turnout. I can't fault Kerry for not going negative in light of that fact. I do concede the point that the August break was not smart and I do concede the point that he was slow to get on message. I know I liked him more than both of you did...but he REALLY did come within 130,000 votes...in many ways that is a disappointment since with a REAL press that didn't do all they could to validate the SwiftBoat smears he certainly wouldn't have been like a salmon swimming UPSTREAM the entire time.

[merh]

35. Oh, they saw it coming...

What they didn't see coming is how so many people would actually fall for the weed that would be king's lies and are totally ignore the facts in front of them.

[joelogan]

6. If the Dems had a REAL platform, it wudda been a Dem LANDSLIDE!

Dems should move left on economics (double the income tax on rich people; cancel NAFTA; use the money from the rich to provide universal healhtcare and longterm unemployment, etc), and right on social issues (translation: not every other word out their mouths having something to do with divisive gender, gay, and race issues.

[Walt Starr]

7. Because if we move to the right, the Radical right becomes moderate

while we remain commie liberals.

That's what the DLC wants for both the Republicratic and Democan Parties.

[lessthanjake]

14. We dont need to change

I thought we did. But ive decided we just need a better messanger. Kerry was a good candidate. Dont get me wrong. But hes been in washington for too long to really be interesting and hes too elite looking and sounding for people to believe any populist message from him.

We just need someone who really has energy and charisma and we will win.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

15. Thanks, and this says we are lucky it was even close

we simply do not defeat an incumbent president in wartime. After wars surely, but never in their midst. Republicans have been spinning this fact for months, and they are correct.

Democrats have spoken often and powerfully about the nation’s economic problems. But by historical standards, they are not that bad. The “misery index” is 7.8 today but was 20.5 when Jimmy Carter was defeated. Economic models of elections show Bush winning 52-58 percent of the vote.

One could simply suggest that the models are off, but there is more to it than that.

These models essentially confirm that the level of economic pain we are now feeling is not commensurate with voting an incumbent president out of office.....

.....Bush’s approval ratings are also indicative of the difficulties Kerry faces. It is certainly true that the average incumbent who has been reelected has had a much higher job approval rating — 62 percent. Bush’s approval rating is now about 49 percent. Yet the last time an incumbent was beaten — Bush’s father — just 33 percent approved of his performance. When Carter was defeated, he had an approval rating of only 37 percent. On average, incumbents who have been defeated have only had a 38 percent job rating. Bush is 10 points higher than that.

We often point to the fact that a majority of Americans say the country is seriously off on the wrong track. Fifty-two percent hold that view. But when Bush Sr. was defeated, 72 percent thought the country was seriously off on the wrong track.

Only 39 percent give the economy a positive rating, a problem for the incumbent.

Yet in 1992, only about 10 percent were positive about the economy.

Taking all that and more into account, an expert forecasting model suggests that Bush will get 51.6 percent of the two-party vote....

http://www.thehill.com/mellman/110204.aspx

[sangh0]

16. Because

if we can get so excited over the "Kerry had sex with an intern" Drudge rumors, as we did, imagine what we can do over a measly 130,000 votes.

[Forkboy]

18. Because we need a scapegoat dammit

and Nader isn't available anymore.So now it's the gays fault,or the women who,GASP,think thier bodies should be left alone,or the fringe leftists like myself who just didn't give Kerry enough love to push him over the top.

Like true children of the Reagan era,"It's always someone else's fault!"

[The Flaming Red Head]

19. Because they hate the people that supported them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. Without Getting Into The Merits Of The Platform

Winning the Electoral College while losing the nation by 3,000,000 votes would be a hollow victory even more hollow than AWOL's 00 victory....

[blm]

24. I agree. Our platform is the RIGHT platform. I don't WANT to appeal to

neanderthals or those that thrive on divisive issues.

Our problem is the media and its agenda to promote the GOP generated storylines.

[cattleman22]

28. No gun control in Dem party and Dem's win. n/t

[RafterMan]

25. I'm one who says it's culture and communication

not issues and platform, but it needs to be changed.

A president as bad as Bush should have been defeated by ten million votes. This year should've been a landslide. 1976 should have been a landslide. 1992 and 2000 should have been decisive majorities.

There's a problem, and it's not too early to start fixing it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

29. You are forgetting all of those Seante and House seats we lost

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

30. yes ..most were lost over the Clinton years however as were many state

governments flipped from blue to red...which is why I don't see the benefit of going further right ... oh and remember that media deregulation thingy? Really helped us, eh?

[KuTava]

31. The media is the real issue, isn't it?

They just couldn't stop talking about Kerry's Cambodia mission -- his time with the VVAW -- all that bs about him meeting with the North Vietnamese; they incessantly brought up and misrepresented his record as a Senator, as an excuse to say "liberal" in every other sentence. But did you hear a word about Bush's desertion from the National Guard? Any criticism of his destruction of the economy, or the ruinous war in Iraq? Jack Germond (I may be spelling it wrong) in his book Fat Man Fed Up told it straight: they kept mum from day 1 on what should have been a major issue: Bush's substandard intelligence -- "keeping secrets from the voters" to protect corporate interests.

Frankly, if it weren't for the Internet, I don't think I'd have heard a thing about Bush's low IQ, or the missing WMD's, or the draft, or the alienation of our allies. We have _got_ to get the word out better: more marches, more alternative media, more tell-it-like-it-is ads (like the one showing Bush as the Nazi he is) by people like MoveOn.org, reaching more people. If we get out a better message -- really get it out next time -- people will see the truth.

All the same, there's no reason NOT to tinker with the platform, if we can improve it in some way. For one thing, we need a candidate who will clearly state his opposition to anti-gay bigotry, corporations, war, and religious fundamentalism. Kerry was too hard to tell from Republicans -- and he was so nice, so unwilling to defend himself, so reluctant to criticize Bush's manifestly awful record, that he just let the Bushies walk all over him. No wonder it was so close.

[jonnyblitz]

33. 130,000 votes is all? what is this 3 million figure i keep hearing?

:hi: BTW I have been enjoying your threads lately, Teena, especially the "religious opression" one.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

37. I suspect 3 million Democrats might have

not had their votes count for whatever reason. Also please note that only 39% and 45% of California and NY state voters showed up.

Mandate my Ass!

[merh]

34. Thank God, someone who is sensible.

I have been screaming this at the top of my lungs. We have nothing to be ashame of, Kerry got more votes than St. Raygun.

We won for pete's sake, reform is not necessary.

[JI7]

36. exactly right

and we have to take into consideration that the republicans had started their GOTV effort right after the 2000 elections.

the democrats didn't start until this year after kerry became the presumed nominee.

the republicans have unlimited funds also.

[The Flaming Red Head]

38. Sit up dems, beg dems, roll over dems, heel dems, now play dead

about voting fraud dems and we'll think of an excuse of why we lost.


It's your fault bad little dem supporters, now go home, and host those prayer vigils, while your rulers reap the benefits.