What do you think of the 'red state/blue state' rhetoric?

[pmbryant]

If you are inclined to vote for the first or second choices,
please read this: 
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1345639

(EDIT:  Doesn't seem to be an active link, unfortunately.  But
I guess it won't bias the poll then.)

[Fovea]

1. The real divide

is metro/retro.
That is why the second civil war will not be between the states, but thecounties.

[crasmane]

2. I think it over-simplifies the divisions in US.

This country is divided over so much, and the divisions are so endemic and widespread, that to isolate the liberal leaning part of this country to the blue states amounts to wishful thinking.
The liberals are not in the blue states alone.
They are everywhere.
They are not angrier in the blue states than in the red ones.
They are not truer in the blue states than in the red ones.
The body of ideas that amounts to the liberal perspective are not confined to cooler climates.
Just like it doesn't really take much intelligence to figure out that the American people were hood-winked in the last so-called election.
It doesn't take much intelligence to figure out that the Iraq war was implemented with the chief motive of resource control.
All that was, was common sense. Not brilliance. Not Northeastern brilliance.
It also doesn't take much intelligence to figure out that the two occupations, that of Afghanistan and in Iraq, are costing too much in human lives and communities.
No, all it really takes is a little empathy. Not brilliance by a long shot.
To frame things in terms of red & blue, and to make sure you lump all the neocons in the red & all their detractors in the blue, is to cover one's eyes and ears to the time bomb of liberal rage in the red states.
Why do liberals dream that their views are so rare?
& why do neocons dream that their views are mainstream?
What delusions we labor under!

[trogdor]

15. The southeast has been a seperate regional entity since the CW.

Too many people down there (no, I don't mean everybody; don't be ridiculous) have this "new confederacy" attitude while accusing northeasterners and left coasters of having an elitist attitude. I think is the height of arrogance and hypocrisy.

Schools down South barely deserve to be called such. This is a fact. When GW and the rest of the howling monkeys talk about the shabby state of American education, they are not talking about states like New York. Rather, it's Dixie who's dragging the rest of the country down. Why is this? Because they refuse to spend the goddam money to fix them. They'd rather pass a federal law that compels us northerners to pay for their so-called schools.

Violent crime rates are higher in Dixie than elsewhere. Why? Attitudes, and the refusal to do anything about them. The NRA fucking owns the South and its politicians.

Teenage pregnancy rates are higher in Dixie than elsewhere. Why? Because the holy rollers are hell bent on preventing anyone from doing something about it other than just saying "you shouldn't do that" to people whose every cell is screaming to do just that very thing, as if it really does any good. Like other groups who run the South, these people are fucking useless.

Abortion rates are higher in Dixie than elsewhere. Why? See previous paragraph.

Divorce rates ar higher in Dixie than elsewhere. Why? See previous two paragraphs.

I used to live down there. I've even been down there in the past couple of years. The vast majority of people down there are indeed ignorant back-assward bigoted rednecks. One of the most prominent restaurant chains in South Carolina flies the Confederate Battle Flag in it's front parking lot. South Carolina Electric and Gas wanted to ban its employees from driving company vehicles onto the premises. The courts said SCE&G couldn't do discriminate against one chain while allowing their employees to drive-thru McDonald's. They just don't want to hear it, no matter how the issue is framed, no matter who's bringing the issue up. If Strom Thurmond came back from the grave and brought it up, they still wouldn't want to hear it.

They still use punch cards in SC. They passed a law in 2001 that basically said if you didn't remember to remove all your partially-punched chads, your vote doesn't count - too fucking bad; we don't want to hear it.

No, Dixie is NOT a nice place to live, go on vacation, or whatever. I genuinely feel sorry for anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together and has to live down there. It must be hell. Really. All I can say is, it doesn't snow all that much up here where I live, and you get used to it, just like you get used to 110 degree heat with 99% humidity. I'll leave the porch light on.

[Old and In the Way]

3. I think it's a concept pushed by Republicans and corporate media

They want to pit state against state so as to deflect our attention from their criminal actions.

[pmbryant]

10. It certainly helps them out

Sadly, I see a lot of Dems pushing the same rhetoric.

[katinmn]

4. Until we come up with other descriptors

we're stuck with those labels.

I think we should not think in terms of a geographic divide but a perception or awareness divide.

I personally think in terms of progressive or neoconservative.

[pmbryant]

7. Great point

We need something to replace this.

[KurtNYC]

5. They love seeing big red areas on a map

They love unscientific things that make them feel good.

[imenja]

6. Sadly, it represents a real cultural divide

between urban and rural or exurban area. In red states, the cities are blue. In blue states, the rural areas and exurbs are red. It's a deep cultural divide that the Democrats need to figure out how to bridge. A more populist message and candidates would help.

[RafterMan]

8. Keep it coming

Red State Complaint Number One: Blue staters fail to acknowledge our cultural differences as being legitimate.

And I don't mean keep being an arrogant prong about it like many here are, but the real differences won't be resolved by putting our head in the sand.

If it makes people on the left more comfortable, think of how the integration talk of the 1960s became the multicultural talk of the 1990s. Why did that happen? It's the same answer here.

[Shoeempress]

9. I think we already have the terms we need, Repukes and Democrats.

Where you live is irrelevant.

[Beacho]

11. Time to put this bullshit regionalism to rest

Regionalism is a tool that is one of the primary weapons of people like Rove.

Sun Tzu emphasised that choosing your own terrain to fight on is the prerequisite for victory.

Advice we need to heed.

Regionalism is just an extension of the mindlessness that these fascist need to succeed in thier plans

[pmbryant]

12. You've pretty much nailed my viewpoint

"Bullshit regionalism"

Peter

[Selatius]

13. Get rid of the Electoral College

The only reason why we talk in this manner is because of the College. States end up red or blue, but not everyone in a red state is a conservative, and not everybody in a blue state is a liberal (or progressive if "liberal" sounds too dirty for you).

If we trashed the college, we'd get a better demographic picture of where people lay, and we wouldn't be ignoring bastions of liberalism in the south and middle America, bastions we could build upon and expand.

[trogdor]

17. Easier said than done, dude.

How do you propose to get 2/3 of the Congress to send this amendment to the states?

[Captain Ron]

14. Truth is,

it is the large urban counties (Blue) vs. smaller urban counties, suburban counties and rural counties (Red).

Besides wondering why the reds vote the way they do (discussed to death)... perhaps it can be as revealing to examine why the blues vote the way they do.

What is it about very large urban areas that cause them to vote Democratic?

Of course a serious discussion would need to be free from hysterical rantings.

[Selatius]

18. A few points

I think, especially in the inner-city areas, the people vote Democrat because of the party's history as far as civil liberties in this country is concerned.

Urban areas are almost always more multicultural, so tolerance for differing viewpoints is a must, and I think the Democratic Party represents that kind of tolerance moreso than the Republican Party. A great many people in the cities don't see what the big deal over gay marriage or same-sex civil unions is all about. They'd probably see it more as an issue of civil liberties than anything and would probably not hold it against the Democrats unlike those who condemn homosexuality.

It's usually been the Democratic Party that fought for worker rights. If not the party, then it was workers out in the streets who compelled the party to act when it was dragging its feet. For many people in more urban areas, especially depressed areas, labor standards and the minimum wage are the only things keeping them from falling further behind.

[Minimus]

16. Meaningless. I live in a red state, I am a transplant, my husband is

a transplant, most of the people we know are transplants. In my state my county is blue and if you look at maps that show other states by red/blue counties you will see blue around the cities (where transplant live and work).

IMHO the county map or the shades of purple map are more representative of reality.