"Am I the only one who likes both Kerry and Bush?" Clinton speech

[robbedvoter]

today about how we are not THAT divided.
YESSSS! You are. I for one, dislike both now.

[SammyWinstonJack]

1. Heh!

I dislike * immensely. I am disappointed in Kerry. He didn't fight like he said he would.

[magnolia]

17. You mean...like YOU think he should!

During the campaign...many of us fought. Some of us took to the streets carrying signs...some of us sent e-mails and wrote LTTEs. Don't assume that John Kerry has stopped fighting just because he isn't doing it exactly the way you think he should!

[Cheswick2.0]

19. no, like he should have to win

Or am I missing something? Did he win? Is he doing anything about the BBV issue? Has he even mentioned it?
Some of us spent 12-14 hour days on GOTV. We worked, that doesn't mean HE did everything right.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Yes inch deep support for our candidates after they bust their ass

is a wonderful symptom of why we lose...one day Byrd is a hero and the next day Byrd is a sell out bitch...

I wasn't happy when Kerry conceded so soon, but I also think he did us all a favor by not turning himself into a laughing stock thereby muting any dissent he could offer upon returning to the senate.

This place has turned into a bunch of fucking Judases overnight.

Really ...most people here need to do a little soul check and ask if this bullshit they are posting stands to empower us as a party or further tear us apart.

[robbedvoter]

6. mutting any dissent? What good does THAT do, without democracy?

ELECTIONS ARE GONE!!!!!!! What is he dissenting about?
here's a different opinion:

http://www.nyobserver.com/pages/frontpage8.asp
Mr. Kerry, for instance—if he were smart, if he were truly forward-thinking and unselfish—could have changed what is now becoming the Master Narrative of the Election (a "mandate" based on "values" means: get pious or else). If he had made the speech I suggest (or some version of it), he could have changed the focus from Mr. Bush’s popular-vote win (only 51 percent anyway) to a narrative about the unresolved closeness of the margin. About how the country remains divided—at least electorally—rather than the false (based on misread, inaccurate exit polls) triumph of righteousness (and self-righteousness).

The Democratic Party would be exposing the scandal of the failure to reform our voting procedures to affirm fairness (no more four-hour lines in minority urban precincts, as in Ohio, and similar abuses) rather than getting its collective knickers in a twist over how to appease the intrusive, self-proclaimed moralists by discarding its principles.

But nooooo …. Mr. Kerry denied us the focus on the failure to obtain confidence in the exactitude of voting. (As someone pointed out, if we know how to make A.T.M.’s that don’t make tens of thousands of mistakes every day—and that give out receipts—then why not voting machines?)
snip

He made it all about him. All about how he’d look, about his image, perhaps about his future, his pathetic dream of running another inept campaign. What about his followers, who put their hearts into the campaign and were cheated of certainty so Mr. Kerry could bask in the goo-goo congratulations of the sappy and wrong-headed "spare the country" editorialists.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. Ron Rosebaum always gave Kerry a hard time even during the campaign

And for the record, the wing of the party talking about appeasing the moralists is the wing that gave us your sacred Wesley Clark...the DLC...the wing talking about appealing to the corporatists.

For the record, it's only two weeks since the election and based on articles posted here on DU, votes ARE still being counted and Kerry HAS stated as much.

Do you not think the loss by 130,000 votes was MAYBE a bit devastating for HIM?

The media made a LAUGHING stock out of Gore after the race...I don't fault Kerry for knowing he could accomplish NOTHING if he left himself at the mercy of the same machine.

Again..I was not happy with the quick concession..but it certainly doesn't negate the fact that he was STILL standing at the time of the election and had HUGE momentum..yes every dirty trick in the book was pulled...you don't know what actions he'll take in the foreseeable future.

BTW..has your precious Wesley Clarke made a single statement about the things in Rosenbaum's article? If not, why not?

[magnolia]

18. This is pure crap!

If Kerry had taken this guys advice...he would have repeated 2000...with the same result. In a few months we may get the same result anyway...in a year, we may understand why it was the right result. We just don't know right now...so until we do, let's stop the Kerry-bashing and bitching!

A fellow-dem of mine wrote a LTTE referring to a letter the week before where a lady claimed that Bush won because of the prayers of good Christians like herself. One of the things he said: "Sometimes God teaches us by giving us what we want. Before you start gloating over your victory, wait to see if it's a blessing or a curse." Good advice for everyone. If I had cancer, I would hope to have enough of the nasty symtoms to be able to see it and treat it. If another Bush term is the malignant tumor of the world...I'd just as soon see it and start treating it than to keep masking it with a bandaid.

[Cheswick2.0]

21. So it is good that Kerry let us down?

Because that way bush is exposed?

The results of 2000 were much preferable to this year. At least Gore had the fight to make sure it was clear bush was seen as not elected. Now Kerry has given Bush what he never had before, legitimacy. The editorial was exactly right.

[Lorien]

9. In this case, I think it was stolen

some of us feigned wild support for Kerry in hopes of creating a sense of unity. For the most part, I think it worked. I never liked Kerry as a person or as a candidate. I met him twice, I spoke with him, I still was not impressed. However, getting Bush* out was far more important than my personal feelings and assessment of the candidate. I cheered Kerry on DU because it was necessary; we HAD to create excitement where there was none; Kerry couldn't inspire or motivate many of us, but the infectious excitement of our fellow Dems could. I worked my ass of for Kerry here in the Swing State of Florida, and had the election been conducted honestly, I'm sure he would have taken the state.

I am not a "Judas". I'm tired and I feel betrayed by the system and my candidate's refusal to entertain the notion that they would try to steal it again. To allow unverifiable voting was madness, to concede without having counted the votes as promised was unforgivable. The party is effectively destroyed by it's own naivete or worse. We can never hope to win again if BBV isn't seriously addressed. Democracy thrives when there is dissent, and dies with unquestioning loyalty and inaction.

[BansheeDem]

15. I think this was part of the problem ...

"... some of us feigned wild support for Kerry in hopes of creating a sense of unity. For the most part, I think it worked. I never liked Kerry as a person or as a candidate. I met him twice, I spoke with him, I still was not impressed. However, getting Bush* out was far more important than my personal feelings and assessment of the candidate."

We can "feign" support all we want to, but in the end the dishonesty of it shows through as clearly as the sun moving above the horizon at daybreak. Don't think for a second that the support Kerry received wasn't genuine on many fronts - it's just that a lot of us were disappointed that "he" was what we were going to have as a candidate. It's hard to get excited about a Dem that has a difficult time articulating their positions on nearly everything. "I have a plan" was just not cutting it for me. I lost more than a few arguments with my Republican counterparts based on his changes in position over the past two years. I mean (really) how do you defend the "I voted before it before I voted against it" meme? I am looking forward to '08 when we will have a "real" candidate to put forward.

[newyawker99]

16. Hi BansheeDem!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[paulk]

23. if Kerry accused the Republicans of stealing this election

and was then unable to prove it, he would hurt not only himself, but the entire Democratic party.

Kerry's forte in the Senate was investigations - I have to believe that he's aware of the potential of vote fraud, and will be looking into it. If there's anything that can be proven, it will come out - and if it is shown that the Republicans stole a presidential election it will cause them incredible damage. But it has to be rock solid proof.

As for "allowing" unverifiable voting - you should understand that three bills were introduced by Democrats over the last few years to stop just that - all three were killed by Republicans in committee. Don't blame the Democrats for the BBV situation, blame the responsible parties - the Republicans and the media, who won't cover the story.

It's up to us to get this story out.

[Andromeda]

10. I don't think most of the people who are dissing...

Kerry wanted him to be the candidate in the first place. I converted because he was our candidate and I would have supported whomever was nominated.

Originally, I wanted Howard Dean and I was disappointed when he didn't win, however, I kept an open mind. As it turns out Dean is still very much an activist in our party and I'm very happy about that.

When I listened to John Kerry and watched how he handled himself on the campaign trail and in the debates there was no doubt in my mind that he should be the candidate representing the Democratic party AND the next President of the United States.

Get a grip all you people who want Kerry drawn and quartered. Kerry is not the problem!

What we need in this party is unity and I don't think the actions of some of you are working toward that goal.

Instead of bitching why don't you get busy and start doing something constructive, huh?

[Lorien]

11. Um, I AM doing something constructive

See the new forum "Economic activism and Progressive living". I'm usually the one trying to get the letter writing campaigns going, the boycotts, the public awareness campaigns. It's worse than herding cats! I sacrificed so much of myself during the campaign that I'm living on my retirement account to pay for it-AND I'M IN MY FUCKING THIRTIES!!

I WILL NOT be told to "unify" with a broken party. The party needs to change NOW, or the next "election" will be worse than the last.

Now what are YOU doing that's "constructive"?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. Thanks you and your post cuts at the HEART of my angst and my angst is

Kerry WAS my first choice and Dean was not. I really didn't care for Dean at all..HOWEVER..had he won the nomination I would have been VERY supportive of him during the campaign and after. I might have had MINOR criticisms along the way but would not have torn him apart the way some chose to do with Kerry even WELL after he was chosen.

It's just starting to really GET to me..while I appreciate Dean's efforts with DFA..he still can't get beyond being a very polarizing figure and I just don't see that helping in the long run.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

12. Inch deep support FROM our candidates is the problem. n/t

[robbedvoter]

3. I wish he'd use his peacemaker gifts internationally. This place is

too f*ed for words.

[BlueStatesForever]

4. He's lying

After the whole impeachment mess? If he were telling the truth he would have shoved the Bushes off the podium.

[The Flaming Red Head]

5. Pissed off, pissed on, and in a pissy mood

Who'd he vote for?

[evilqueen]

7. Heh.

He's gotta be bullshitting after everything he and Hillary and Chelsea went through with this republican bunch. The question begging to be asked of him now is: So, uh, Bill,... what's in it for you?

[JohnOneillsMemory]

14. "What's so wrong about torture, murder, starvation, eco-disaster?"

I almost threw something when I heard this shit.

BILL, WE ARE NOT 'UNITING' WITH FUCKING WAR CRIMINALS!

[tandot]

20. Of course, he likes Kerry and bush...

we all knew that. Otherwise the Monica thing would have never happened.

Actually, somebody else posted that yesterday. I just "stole" it.

[w4rma]

22. If Clinton said that then he is either a liar or a fool.

Why do some Dems say BS like this? Everyone who is paying attention knows they are being frauds with these false, pretend words towards Repug leaders.

Just tell the truth. You can be tactful and still tell the truth.

[graywarrior]

24. After watching that "ceremony" yesterday

I realized that all of "them" are so out of my league, so out of touch with reality, and a bunch of pompous assholes. But politicans are becoming characitures to me.

It's sad, because I really got caught up in this election and really liked Kerry. I still do. But their view of what needs to be done on this planet is much different from mine. It just seems like it's all about power to them.

[JVS]

25. Billy and Georgie sittin in a tree....

[PurityOfEssence]

26. He can give the Republicans the Full Monica all day long 'till his knees

hurt, and they'll STILL try to destroy him.

Clinton is a classic example how gullible and foolish truly smart people often are. I'm so sick of this guy.

[L84TEA]

27. Did anyone else think...

That Chimp boy looked like he had a case of ADHD?
He couldn't hold still. It was driving me nuts.
I couldn't get a scrolling banner in my head that said...
AND PEOPLE ACTUALLY VOTED FOR HIM???
ugh...just makes me sick.
Bill HANDS DOWN is a WAY WAY WAY BETTER PRESIDENT then Chimp and his Dad and their 50 crack head family members could amount to in a sack!