Dean's statement about Saddam/unilateral action in Feb. 2003

[zulchzulu]

"If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice."
(Feb. 2003)

- Howard Dean interviewed on Salon.com

OK. I know this is kind of somewhat unproductive bullshit. But since people are dissing Kerry for the IWR vote, mincing his words and intentions and bitching that it was the reason he lost, let's discuss this little Howard gem.

Make it known that I like Howard... but let's say that Howard got the nomination.

Would Chimpy and the Fellas use this quote on Dean ad nauseum every time he brought up the war?

Um... i dink so, compadre.

[DaveinMD]

1. nice job

I guess he's not infallible.

[madfloridian]

4. You are absolute unreal about this topic.

It is amazing to me.

[DaveinMD]

5. I'm quite real

I knew Gov. Dean before many knew he existed. I just fight the notion that he is god and the only person to lead our party. I will stop for the night.

[madfloridian]

7. No one thinks he is godlike. You are the one who keeps saying it.

It is making me suspicious why you are so bitter.

[DaveinMD]

11. I just don't

like people acting like they are the only good Democrats and threatening to bolt if things aren't exactly the way they want things.

[madfloridian]

14. No,we are not threatening. Just supporting DFA.

And if Dean is not allowed to be part of the party, then I leave, my hubby leaves, and so do the rest of our DFA here. That is when we go independent.

That is our business, not yours. We happen to appreciate the voice he has given the Democrats.

[DaveinMD]

18. DFA is great

and Dean will always be allowed to be part of the party.

Its all Dems business. Many people have given great voice to the Democrats. Dean is not the only good Democrat.

[madfloridian]

26. No, Dave, he may not be included.

Oh, they will not take the D from his name, but he will not be allowed to be a leader or nominee.

[DaveinMD]

30. he will be allowed to be in the party

Just because he loses an election doesn't mean he's not welcome in the party. I liked a bunch of our candidates in this primary. Just because I chose one over the others doesn't mean they aren't welcome in the party.

[madfloridian]

34. Read what I said.

.

[DaveinMD]

38. he will surely be a leader

The people I know value what Dean has done for the party. The party realizes how valuable he is. That doesn't mean he will be the nominee. That will be up to primary voters. He will be one of many leaders in the party.

[madfloridian]

39. They will use him and us, and toss aside.

I am very realistic. One does not cross the leadership and survive in the party leadership. Sorry.

[DaveinMD]

43. I disagree

Remember, the current crew at the DNC is gone no matter who the new chair is. There is a big shakeup regardless. Dean has been embraced by tons of party regulars and insiders.

[madfloridian]

2. Post the rest of the interview in fairness.. was speaking hypothetically

And I will go and find it if you don't.

Also post the speeches he made in Feb. and March condemning the war.

Now....wanna go back to the primaries?

I can post all kinds of goodies about others, but I don't because it is not nice.

[zulchzulu]

6. The quote would be the only thing used by the Repugs

They would repeat it over and over again. Screw the other speeches (like Kerry's).

[madfloridian]

8. Do you want me to post the whole article? Or will you.

I think there is even a video. We stupid dumb Deaniacs archived most everything.

Fools that we are.

[madfloridian]

9. Waiting for your response. Fair is fair.

Also I doubt you want me to post some the things I have archived. It is not my style to insult others, just to post about Dean.

Waiting.

[davidwparker]

25. Dean wouldn't have let time pass and ignore it

like Kerry did with SBV, flip-flopping. Dean would have taken Bush to task and gone after him. Like, while Bush was at his ranch, Dean ran commercial against Bush right there in Texas.

[CTLawGuy]

45. its more difficult for bush to get out a quote like that

esp. after the media annoints dean as an anti-war crusader,

than it is for Bush to simply say "you voted for it" "you saw the same intelligence and came to the same conclusion," to john kerry

[unfrigginreal]

3. Saddam didn't disarm? I guess I missed the newsflash about

finding WMD's.

[Lefta Dissenter]

10. Rove had a file a mile long

on each one of the candidates, including mine. And what he didn't have, he would have made up. Look at Max Cleland, for god's sake!

I don't think anyone of the candidates could have won against those cheaters and liars. If you have no soul and no morals, and you're willing to destroy our democracy in order to steal the election... well, that's tough for anyone to beat down.

I think John Kerry is a good, honorable, thoughtful man, and I am convinced that he DID win the election, fair and square.

[Chimpanzee]

24. Rght on, Lefta!

[The Wielding Truth]

28. You are probably more right than we will ever know.

[madfloridian]

12. Ok, do you want me to post everything press would use against all?

Or do you really not want to go there?

Trust me, if you continue this I will.

[zulchzulu]

17. My example simply shows that Dean was very vulnerable on the Iraq War

People here at DU seem to have selective memory in regard to the possible uses of Dean's history and opinions on the War.

If Dean was the nominee, do you really think that Rove would not have hammered this shit ad nauseum and put Dean in a corner he couldn't punch out of?

That was the only purpose of this thread.

I like Dean. I just don't think he's God.

[madfloridian]

20. My God, Zulu.....they were all salivating but him.

How dare you. They would have attacked everyone on something.

You guys are shocking me with the pure hatred or jealousy or whatever name you want to give it.

[zulchzulu]

31. I'm pointing out what Howard said...to say Kerry was drooling about ...

..the War is absolutely dishonest.

Read Howard's words again. He said them. Many of Dean's words about attacking Iraq are on videotape. To live in a world where those words and images would not have been used if Howard was the nominee is not realistic.

Let's get over it. But let's not act like Dean is God. And yes, let's support DFA and other efforts.

[madfloridian]

33. Find the transcripts, post the rest of what he said, and I am so over it.

Fair is fair.

[Lefta Dissenter]

35. ahem...

ALL salivating over the war? I will remind you that Dennis Kucinich and Wes Clark both spoke out strongly in opposition to the war. And let's not forget Carol and Al. Let's not get back into the old battle over that only one shit, because it just won't fly.

I have not criticized Dean, but it would be nice for some of his supporters to recognize the good in some of the other candidates, as well.

[madfloridian]

36. Don't push your luck with me on the war stuff. Who started the thread.

Yes, I have articles. I like Clark I don't want to go there. He is very much against it now....except for Fallujah. There we disagree.

I see the good in all of them...I did not start this.

[Lefta Dissenter]

42. I am only responding

to your comment that Dean was the ONLY one who was against the war from the start. That is a misstatement that was made numerous times throughout the primaries, and it simply is not true.

As we stand now, I think Dean has a lot to offer our country, as do the rest of the Democratic candidates (well, except Zell Lieberman, that is). Going back and dredging up the old campaign attacks won't accomplish a thing.

[madfloridian]

44. Kucinich was on a committee with Ritter to stop it. I did NOT start this.

Stop telling me to quit going back to the primaries. Talk to zulu about that.

[Minstrel Boy]

23. If that's the best you got, I don't see it.

There is a big difference between a hypothetical war and a real one.

Sure, Dean had vulnerabilities, but he's one helluva counterpuncher.

[unfrigginreal]

37. Not only that, but Rove would have had a hellacious job to

convince ANYONE that Dean was for the war. It wasn't like he hid his disapproval from the public.

[zulchzulu]

13. A couple more quotes from Dean on Saddam and the War

September 2002 Face the Nation:
"There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat to the United States and to our allies."

February 2003 Face the Nation::
"I agree with President Bush -- he has said that Saddam Hussein is evil. And he is," Dean said. " is a vicious dictator and a documented deceiver. He has invaded his neighbors, used chemical arms, and failed to account for all the chemical and biological weapons he had before the Gulf War. He has murdered dissidents, and refused to comply with his obligations under U.N. Security Council Resolutions. And he has tried to build a nuclear bomb. Anyone who believes in the importance of limiting the spread of weapons of mass killing, the value of democracy, and the centrality of human rights must agree that Saddam Hussein is a menace. The world would be a better place if he were in a different place other than the seat of power in Baghdad or any other country. So I want to be clear. Saddam Hussein must disarm. This is not a debate; it is a given."

March 2003 Meet the Press:
"Iraq is automatically an imminent threat to the countries that surround it because of the possession of these weapons."

[madfloridian]

21. I have the transcripts from both. He said much more....

Do you have the full transcripts or are you posting from the primary links you guys used?

[zulchzulu]

15. Link to Salon article

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/02/20/dean/index_np.html

[madfloridian]

19. Well, here's one portion......

"Hence, today's phone calls. It's Thursday, Feb. 6, the day after Secretary of State Colin Powell's presentation to the United Nations of evidence of Iraq's noncompliance with Resolution 1441. Edwards calls it "a powerful case." Kerry says it's "compelling." Lieberman, of course, is already in his fatigues."

Dean isn't sold. It doesn't indicate that Iraq is an imminent threat, he says..."

Now I have a lot more about way Kerry and Edwards called Dean unelectable, not fit to be president.....about the war and about Saddam.

I will read more of the article.....

[zulchzulu]

27. Sorry to offend you...but...

It needed to be said and pointed out that while people handwring over Kerry's IWR vote (and usually coming from Dean fans with a little too much enthusiasm that he can do NO wrong), that Dean offered plenty of ammunition for Rove to exploit and lie about.

That is all. As far as I'm concerned, you and those who support(ed) Dean are my allies. We just need to be on the same level.

[madfloridian]

32. No, I want you to post the whole interviews.....he was quite good on this.

If anyone thinks the GOP would not have attacked him, they are crazy.

But this is NOT the way to do it. Dean is going to be in the face of this party, and they will not accept it. It is not going away.

He is not going away. We are not. I have several pages of his archived speeches and even videos.

If you are sincere, I will find the links. Then you can see what he really said. He was not even in DC, but he was smart enough to see that Iraq was not a threat, and that we were no safer with Saddam gone.

If you want to continue I am well armed with quotes from the candidates who thought Saddam was terrifyingly scary....namely our two candidates. I don't want to continue, but I am ready.

It may be tomorrow before I can organize it all, but I damn sure will.

[madfloridian]

40. Kerry: "compelling" Edwards "powerful case" Dean..."not sold"

Just a reminder.

[davidwparker]

16. In the timeline,

wasn't this before the UN had inspectors on the ground not finding anything?

I think Howard might have reminded everyone that the reason for the war on Iraq was that the President and even Bush had definitive evidence that the U.S. mainland was under immediate threat. The mushroom cloud and all.

When I first heard of Dean, this was one of the positions of his that I liked. He may have realized, given the evidence, the war on Iraq was a sham. Dean, Clark, and Dennis were the only ones I remember criticizing going to war.

I've never like Bush Jr. The mushroom cloud gave me pause. I may have changed my opinion around that time when I thought we were under attack. You want to believe the president, you know?

<b>The reason</b> Kerry may have lost is that the Dem party didn't take black box voting seriously and now, he has difficulty showing he won. Thankfully, 3rd party candidates are visibly carrying on the fight for us.

Should the election be overturned, I would hope Kerry would agree to only one term and then step down. He should be leading this recount effort.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. All Politicians Are Trimmers...

Even the saintly Dennis Kucinich went from being anti-choice to pro-choice when he ran for pres....


Same thing for Jesse Jackson and Dick Gephardt...


I don't say this to denigrate these gentlemen only to point out that political expediency intrudes into the decision making process of even the most principled politicians...


You want orthodoxy find a rabbi, a priest, or a mullah...

[unfrigginreal]

29. Political expediency should be off limits where War is concerned

even the most unprincipled politicians should follow that guideline.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. ahhhh....

If Kerry started a war for political reasons I would agree with you but the die was cast and Bush was going to war with or without the IWR and certainly with or without Kerry's vote...


I guess Mr.'s Jackson, Gephardt, and Kucinich figured abortions would occur with or without their approval so why throw away their political viability on a quioxotic mission...