Just what is a "moderate" Democrat?

[Zensea]

I'm not asking this question to have it answered by examples such as "So and so is a moderate Democrat," but in the spirit of Lakoff. That is since words frame perceptions, it is important to define terms.
Since many people argue in favor of being a "moderate" Democrat, I'm curious about how this is defined by those who argue accordingly.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. No birkenstocks on your shoe tree

:D

[Zensea]

11. LOL

:) I suspect Bill Clinton or Al Gore might have Birkenstocks.

[Iris]

2. Too poor to be Republican?

[Zensea]

12. Lots of Republicans are poor.

in states like Kansas for example voting against their economic interests.

[Iris]

19. They like being poor.

[American Tragedy]

22. And some Dems are rich

i.e., my mom & dad. Being progressive and being wealthy are in fact not mutually exclusive, despite what some might tell you.

[Zensea]

26. I agree, I kind of doubt this guy is a Republican, for example

Nelson Rockefeller's grandson Steven

http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/list/109.php

as evidence-

http://www.earthdialogues.org/documents/interview/rockefeller.html

&
http://www.islamuswest.org/about_rockerfeller.html

[Royal Observer]

50. I've been rich

and I've been poor. Rich is better.

[Gato Moteado]

3. how about an extra-moderate democrat

or an extreme moderate wing democrat. who would be an example of that?

;)

[meow2u3]

29. Yours Truly :)

I call it Deep Center, as in the center field fence in baseball.

My handle says it all....

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lorien]

5. These days? It's a republican

20 years ago it would have been a fiscal conservative, someone who recycled but could care less about saving whales, or someone who was both pro-death penalty and pro-choice. Usually the person broke with the party on only one or two issues, and may have been a bit less commited on a few others.

Now it seems to mean that you believe in much, if not most, of the republican plaform. A repug who is pro-union, for example.

[Zensea]

13. Alright, some definitions!

thanks

[Clark2008]

52. For the most part, that's me...

but I guess it depends on what one sees as "fiscally conservate."

I like balanced budgets and I like surpluses - but surpluses can be used for rainy days, like these days. The surplus shouldn't have been used to give tax breaks to the rich, particularly during a recession. They can buy a few big-ticket items, but the money needs to be in the majority's hands. However, when the economy picks up again, we should go back to balancing the budget and producing surpluses. It's scary to think that China and Japan are buying up our debt.

I am also a sort-of environmentalist. Meaning, I do what I can when I can afford it. In my state, it takes extra special means to recycle. I have to go way out of my way to drop off some newspapers or cans or bottles. Therefore, unless my son's school is having a recycling drive, I don't do it. Honestly, all the fuel and money to purchase it I'd burn heading over the several separate recycling centers for all that stuff is probably worse than just using a newspaper several times before trashing it (Once to read and then for an art project, for wrapping paper or to repot plants).

However, on most of the social issues, I'm a liberal. I'm not into legalizing most drugs (I don't give a hoot about pot. Legalize that, for all I care. It's not worse than cigarettes) and prostitution because I don't see them as "victimless" crimes, but, for the most part I think government should stay out of my personal business. Keep abortion legal, but work with churches and civic organizations and, for God's sake, be a good parent, to keep it rare. Marriage is a church issue, but I'm all for civil unions. We basically do that now. You can be married in the eyes of God by a minister, but the state still requires you to file it with them. Keep religion out of the government. Maintain the spirit of the Constitution and remember that "majority may rule" in a democracy, but a democracy is also designed to keep the majority from victimizing a minority.

I guess I'm either a left-leaning Independent or a Blue Dog Democrat. There are a few Republicans I even admire, but most of them are a dying breed with the neo-conservative movement, which I abhor. I voted for my congressman, Jimmy Duncan Jr., a Republican, for two reasons: A.) He voted against the Iraqi War and B.) There was no way in hell a Dem would win in my area, so I'd rather keep a moderate Republican in office so a neo-con can't get in.

My advice? Don't paint red-staters with one brush stroke. Many of us have grown up with conservative values, but are educated and intelligent enough that, when presented with the facts, can determine that the Republican Party of today isn't helping anyone but corporations and the ultra-wealthy. The problem with the Dems is that they seem scared to venture into the red states. I was very upset that Kerry only visited here once and that was only to attend a veteran's meeting. If the meeting had been held somewhere else, he would never have come to Tennessee.

This is why I like Clark and Clinton. They were never afraid to campaign around here.

[lapfog_1]

6. Well, I consider myself a moderate

For example, in the last few days there have been a number of threads
on revised tax code, most posters advocated something which put
a huge tax burden on the rich, sometimes as much as 90 percent of
income for the really high income earners... and while I support
taxing the rich... certainly more than what is current, but these
proposals are not moderate, and I wouldn't support them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. What Would Stop Bill Gates Or Michael Dell From Moving Off Shore To Avoid

Confiscatory Taxes?


Hell, even Mick Jagger set up offseas addresses in the 60's and 70's to escape the UK's high taxes...

Oliver Wendell Holmes was right that "taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society" but you don't have a right to my earnings and I don't have a right to yours...

[Royal Observer]

21. Somebody once said,

"Tax a rich man and a poor man will pay it."
Probably the most effective way to tax the rich is to not let them make it in the first place.

[LimpingLib]

24. I support poll taxes.

I dont think just work should be taxed.

However the rich want massive programs to benefit them such as "defence" spending and corperate welfare. So they should pay for them.

Sadly they dont.

I actually welcome the "flat tax" debate. I remember everytime I would call in to CSPAN Ann Lewis would get all huffy and puffy when somebody would say bad things about corperate welfare. She would say "we dont want to move back" when you would say we should cut loopholes and commerce department programs.

There arent enough reformers in our party like Marty Mehean.


Let the GOP reform the system since our DLC DINOs wont (GOP will probabilly leave massive loopholes in). But when we Democrats win back office then let the rich pay for all the "defence" and "homeland security" bills. They want a fortress to defend us then they can pay. They can also get their marginal flat rate increased to pay for every corperate welfare program too.

[Royal Observer]

27. Capital and labor are

the only two productive things in society. Tax anything you want to but don't tax those. Just my opinion.

[LimpingLib]

31. Dont tax poor consumers either

I think a poll tax that erases the debt is badly needed.

The problem is that our party (and GOP)cut the CPI 0.25% on poor seniors in 1997. Plus slashed Medicare $135 billion over 5 years.


Had we done that in 1975 then by 1990 the average poor senior would have a $75 per month cut in benefits.

We reap what we ........

[Royal Observer]

38. Where did you get those figures?

Tax a rich man and a poor man will pay it. Don't tax productivity. Don't tax capital and labor. Tax the fruits of productivity.

[jody]

7. A moderate Democrat shares the position of another party on

one or a few issues in opposition to the Democratic Party Platform.

In that sense, any member of the Democratic Party that does not support the Party's position "We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right to own firearms" but takes a position opposing that plank is a moderate. I suppose someone like that could also be classified as something like "extremist" when their position opposes the Party Platform.

See page 22 of the Democratic Party Platform

[JohnKleeb]

8. whatever you want it to be

They're not as bad as people say and I must say, they worked just as hard as the liberals did to get Bush out around here.

[Zensea]

16. I'm not saying I have anything against being moderate

& I don't discount the sincerity and the energy of moderate Democrats.
Just asking the question, that's all.

[JohnKleeb]

25. I know, I really think they get a bad deal though honest

[Cheswick2.0]

41. I had an office that ultimately used 1000 volunteers

There wasn't a moderate amoung the 400 or so I got to know personally.

[Royal Observer]

57. Of course.

Moderates don't volunteer.

[aquart]

10. I favor the death penalty.

I favor nationalization of energy resources.

I favor nationalized healthcare.

I believe privatization has failed horribly. (And I would like to execute the people who promulgated the idea.)

I don't believe in charter schools or home schooling. This is not Australia and every able-bodied child can get to a school.

I believe in one man, one vote and count every bloody one of them and I don't care whose blood it is.

I favor a universal draft. This is our country and we should be the ones to fight for it, if necessary. I also believe in required community service, at least five hundred miles from home.

I'm against a privatized military.

I do NOT believe in pre-emptive war.

I'm against buying spare parts for our weapons from overseas.

I oppose outsourcing.

I favor signing Kyoto. Honoring our treaties. Respecting our alliances.

That seems quite moderate to me.

[Hippo_Tron]

30. You'd be what most consider a liberal...

nationalized healthcare being the biggie on your list. The idea is automatically tied into "socialism" and thus whenever somebody mentions it they loose thier moderate status, at least according to the mainstream media.

[aquart]

34. THAT's why the polls don't work in this area.

They asked me what I thought I was. NOT what the mainstream media thought I was.

[Hippo_Tron]

42. Nationalized healthcare is a radical idea at this point...

It totally against the American capitalist system. The people who control the system make sure that it stays a radical idea so that people won't support it. On a true scale of ideals I'd consider myself moderate-left. I believe in the fundamental capitalist system but I also believe in some big socialist ideals such as public healthcare and access to higher education for all Americans that qualify. Basically, I want a system where every American has health insurance, every American has access to good education, and no American is living in poverty, so that while we still have a fundamentally capitalist economy, everybody, regardless of the family they are born into, can make something of themselves, in that fundamentally capitalist system.

[sangh0]

14. I doubt there's one single definition that will apply to all moderates.

.

[Zynx]

15. It's a silly thing to define.

It covers too broad of a spectrum.

[Zensea]

20. Now we're getting somewhere, it it's silly to define then why

is the term being bandied about right now?
What is to be done about it?
If some candidates are critiqued for not being moderate and some are praised, or vice versa some are critiqued for being moderate and some are praised for not being moderate -- which is something that does happen, then isn't it important to define terms?

If it's silly to define, then wouldn't it also be silly to define liberal or conservative or rightwing or leftwing.

The only way I'd think it's silly to define a word is if you're not going to use it.
If it's a word/term it needs to be defined. Think about what you're really saying when you say it's silly to define.

[d_b]

17. Giuliani

[laheina]

46. They can keep him! nt

[LimpingLib]

18. Look at Labor and Tony Blair compared to Liberal Dems.

Liberal Dems are the "moderate" party.
Labor is the "socalist" party

Infact Liberal Democrats have many seats in moderate areas.

But Labor is as conservative as the conservatives there. Liberal Democrats support raising the income tax from around 40% up to 45%. Labor opposes any increases on the wealthy. (just take taxes for example)


Liberal Democrats cant make a major challenge to Labor as the 2nd party (main opposition) even though they have about 60 seats in the congress , nearly half of conservatives total. Because their members only survive because Labor doesnt challenge them and split the vote in those marginal seats. It will decimate the Liberal Democratic party and conservatives will gain.Labor will do just fine (the workers are screwed though).

The ironic thing is that Labor got so unpopular because when they last held government in 1980 (Conservatives held it from 1980-1997)taxes were 83% on the wealthy. In 1992 they were beating Conservatives in the polls but Conservatives eeked out a win. The party got all distressed so they decided to abandon all their principles and flip from a liberal left party to a soft edged DLCesque Conservative lite party in 1997 even though they would have won with principle but anyway moved hard right JUST TO BE SAFE AND "WIN".

Remind you of any party here on our shores? In 1980 taxes were 77% on the wealthy now our party wont increase it beyond 40% (to Clintons credit he did campaign on a tax increase that the media treated as "socalist", DLCs revisionism spin aside).

Why not just take a middle ground between 80% and 40% and not become GOP lite? DLC!!!!!!?????????? HHHMMMMMMMMMMM??!!!!!!

Anyway like in Britian , the most liberal congresspersons and Senators come from marginal states and disticts. Iowa , Minnesota , Wisconsin , Defazios heavy GOP district in Oregon , Nevada , North Dakota , etc.

We elect wothless moderate shit in liberal states like Delaware , Conn , New York ,Maine (except Mchaud), etc..

[zulchzulu]

23. A "moderate" Democrat is someone not easily categorized and pigeonholed

Terms like "liberal", "conservative", "progressive" and "moderate" are too vague and cartoon-like for my tastes.

It gets down to issues and solutions. And no answer is easy.

[lark]

28. Moderate?

Moderate is such a subjective word. First - about the Repugs - there are no real moderates left, maybe except McCain. The rest are Dems who are in the closet.

For Dems, moderate is Clinton. A moderate would be environmentally friendly, but might support vouchers for poor children, or NAFTA with changes? A moderate might have voted for approval to go into Iraq based on bad info, but now is against the war. They don't go straight party line and made their own decisions.

Myself, I'm not a moderate, so really don't understand them. To me, Kerry was pretty moderate. I think he'd have made a decent president.
These days there is mainly radical reich wing and the few that they haven't kicked out of office yet.

lark

[LimpingLib]

32. McCain isnt very moderate.

I agree with his oposition to corperate welfare and pork barrel spending but he is against all spending.

He wants to carpet bomb more nations than Bush and Clark combined , even in 2000 when we were at peace.

He is anti choice.

He is an economic libertarian and socalist fascist on defense spending and bombing.

[lark]

33. For Repugs, McCain is very moderate

For anyone else, no way at all.

[American Tragedy]

35. I don't really think McCain is a moderate

He has one or two issues on which he slightly deviates from the Republican norm. Other than that, he is very right wing, far more so than even his predecessor.

Gerald Ford, unless he has drastically changed in the past years, is moderate in my opinion. Actually, many Republicans from that era would be fairly moderate, comparatively speaking.

[LimpingLib]

37. Nelson "throw away the key" Rockefellar is moderate?

Talk about fascist. People like him dont even think we have the right to smell whatever we want to swallow whatever flavor of smoke we want without getting a life of filthy conditions (1 shower a week inbetween rotting) behind bars.

Ford DID choose him , did he not?

[Royal Observer]

47. If you disagree with him...

he bombs you. You call that moderate?

[Clark2008]

53. Yeah, I agree Kerry was pretty moderate

but down here in the South, the mere fact that he was from the "librul" Northeast, made people "perceive" him as ultra-leftist.
I know he isn't. I've studied, but I'm but one person. I can't, alone, overcome the inept media and local, long-built-up perceptions.
I tried though!

[OneBlueSky]

36. here's an idea . . . given where BushCo is on the scale . . .

how 'bout we ALL start calling ourselves moderates, and start selling the Democrats as the party of moderation? . . . I mean, anything left of Atilla the Hun is moderate, no? . . .

[LimpingLib]

39. Why not we are already in the twlight zone anyway.

McCain ran on aplatform in 2000 of bombing Lybia , Iran , Syria , Iraq and Ford gave the green light "do what you need to" to slaughter many thousands of Indonesians while he was visiting YET YET YET we are calling them "moderate".


Fuck..some days I think I should just give up.

This is a progressive leaning site right?

[mvd]

40. A moderate can be considered..

someone who tries to find common ground between two sides. It's a murky label after that. If you defined a moderate as someone with mixed views, you'd be ignoring the fact that one view might be considered more extreme than another (being a PETA member while being for the death penalty in certain cases.)

I only have a few views that could be considered moderate. I liked balanced budgets (though I'd go about it with a lot higher taxes on the rich and more spending.) I think a limited form of Affirmative Action is enough. And I believe that every union should be a civil union under the law, with religious institutions being able to marry gay people. On most other issues (death penalty, health care, environment, taxes, war), I'm a definite liberal.

[More Than A Feeling]

61. as a side note, love your position on civil unions

I personally am all for gay marriage, but yours is a compromise that I like as a way to get this issue off the table without dumping gays overboard.

The only problem is that the opposition would make it sound like we wanted everyone to gay marry, because the idea "civil union" has already been associated with "gay"

[Blue Dog Dem]

43. My rant

Okay, I will admit, I have a bias, I am sick of our ideas losing, and I do not care who will take and run with them, as long as our ideas are winning. I also think our past leaders have taken us for a ride and trashed our beliefs for their own gain, and you and I have let them.

See, I think our ideas are WIDELY embraced by America, but we have let our current and former leadership take us for a wild ride, a ride that benefits them and hurts us.

Think about it, do you whore around on your spouse? No, of course not, then why did we accept this in our parties leadership?

Why did we EVER nominate John Kerry with his horrible testimony before the senate and being from the far New England area. I am a from the south, and far northern folks can not get southern votes, there is to much of a culture change, we all wish it we different, but it is not. EVERY TIME WE RUN A NEW ENGLANDER WE LOSE, WE NEED TO TAKE A HINT.

Think about Social Security, it is going to fail, the only mathematical way to make it work is to cut benefits and/or increase taxes. America will not go for tax increases, so we gotta cut benefits, and private accounts could help lower income folks save and grow a nice family nest egg, IF IT IS DONE RIGHT. Why are we not arguing on HOW to fix SS, instead of IF we fix SS? We are the party of the middle class, and THAT IS WHO THE LOOMING SS CRISIS HURTS, WE NEED TO BE DRIVING THIS. Just how in the hell did we let the fucking right wingers take this issue from us!!! If we fix it the RIGHT way we help the middle class, if we fix it THEIR way we help the money monopoly in America!

Think about religious beliefs and morals, WE ARETHE PARTY HELPING THE POOR, HOW IN THE HELL DID WE GIVE UP MORALITY TO THE FUCKING RIGHT WINGERS!!!!!

The Republicans sure as hell are not going to change the current political climate, cause it benefits THEM, so if it is gonna change, WE HAVE TO CHANGE IT.

Would it be such a big deal to simply say that if someone will whore around on their wife they should not be our leader? We have great leaders who are faithful, why not use them? Maybe they we can start looking the "immoral left" badge (that part REALLY sucks).

Thanks for letting me vent, sorry if I ticked anyone off, but at least here I can vent and in public keep up the strong BLUE DOG DEMOCRAT face.

[Cheswick2.0]

44. dupe

dupe

[Cheswick2.0]

45. Speaking as a member of the "far North"

I am a Christian. I live my faith the best I can everyday. I am a mother of two boys. I raised them to be ethical and kind human beings. I don't use drugs or alcohol. I don't believe casual meaningless sexual relationships are good for people so I don't have them. I encourage my kids not to have them either. I tell them they are responsible emotionally as well as physically for any one they have sex with, so stop and think before you act. Is the STD you get worth it to have sex with someone you barely know much less care about? I believe woman should value themselves more, so I encourage young girls to think about what is good for themselves, not just how they can get a boyfriend.

I am also a militant feminist. I care more about women than I do fetuses. I don't want to hear any shit about poor poor pitiful white men and how they are victims of reverse discrimination until half the congress and the POTUS are females. That goes for private business (let me know when women have half the wealth in this world, then I will worry about reverse discrimination) and education too.

I believe in equal right for Gay people. Equal means equal... not equal but different. This nonsense over whether we call something civil union or marriage is a distraction. There are plenty of people in this country who were not married in a religious ceremony and yet they call themselves married. They got married. WTF difference does it make if gay and lesbian couples do the same? Answer: IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER TO ANYONE EXCEPT THE COUPLE GETTING MARRIED. PS... there are plenty of churches who will be happy to do religious ceremonies for those couples and since we have freedom of religion in this country, that fact is none of your damn business nor the business of your less enlightened red state neighbors (or my less enlightened blue state neighbors).

Let me remind you that our candidates did not bring up this issue. The republicans did it and they played us. The answer is not to back off but to call them on their crap. We need to learn how to reverse the argument and call their ethics into question, but Blue dog democrats keep calling for appeasement.

I am pretty sick of being told I have to cater to ignorant racists still fighting the civil war, and only nominate southern moderates. Why don't you all educate your dumb fucking freeper friends and neighbors instead of trying to force the rest of us to placate and pander to them? I do my best to educate my ignorant town folk. I face them down and tell them when I think they are wrong. I provide them information and I don't give up. I do not back down from my beliefs because I am afraid they won't like me. I have never lost a single friend yet.

The people at my church know I am a liberal because I say so all the time.... this is what a liberal Christian looks like. We believe in economic justice. We believe in breathable air. We don't believe in tax cuts for corrupt and failing businesses. We think government is about protecting people not corporations. We believe that God loves Iraqi people too and is weeping over our immoral invasion and occupation. We believe it is immoral to agree to a war that is unjust as is the one we are fighting now, just because the people of the US are so freaking stupid they think our soldiers are over there to protect us from terrorism. Blue dog democrats are one of the main reasons people still think that way. You agreed to this fiasco for political reasons. You gave it legitimacy and you made it impossible for us to fight the right on this war except to say it was done badly. GAG

Seems to me you all have a job to do making your states places where ignorance and intolerance have less effect on the outcome of congressional and presidential races. There are plenty of good liberal people in all the red states. Now get busy and make some more. You might want to start by making your colleges and universities safe for liberal educators.

Kerry turned himself inside out to cater to your version of what a democrat should be. In the process he lost my respect. I voted ABB. But even that was not enough. Now we have to listen to the idiotic and useless DLC tell us he lost because he was a northern liberal.

[Royal Observer]

48. Speaking as a member of the "far west"

It would be better to run a westerner or southerner than a New Englander.

[Starlight]

51. I think it would be better to run a strong, moral, forthright candidate.

His home state shouldn't even enter into the decision.

[Royal Observer]

56. Would you

vote for some one from Utah?

[Starlight]

59. Absolutely. Why not? n/t

[w4rma]

49. A Democrat that the corporate cartel doesn't see as a threat, usually.

Or a Democrat that the corporate cartel hasn't focused hard enough on spinning into a tree hugging hippie, yet.

[greenohio]

54. People who's vote we don't really want.

[UpsideDownFlag]

60. ...was that sarcasm? we need all the damn votes we can get. nt

[mmonk]

55. neither

[angee_is_mad]

58. Republican-like?

or the same as a moderate republican?