dsc
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:12 PM
Original message |
An couple important lessons from 2004 we need to learn |
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Lesson number one, we can't make electability the sole issue in the primaries. It is impossible to guess months before an election what the public is going to be looking for. For all the talk of electoral disaster given nominating certain candidates, we went for the most electable candidate and we still had the disaster. We lost all five Senate races in the South, we lost Dashle's seat in South Dakota, we lost to a loon in Kentucky, we lost to the personification of nepotism run amok in Alaska. It is hard to imagine doing worse.
Lesson number two, we need to be a real opposition party. We can't allow Bush to have sucesses. Look at the Republicans in the 1990's. They were utter obstructionists and paid no price at all for it.
I have no idea if Dean would have won or not. But, I do know that unless we stand for something as a party other than winning races, then we won't win races. It is that simple.
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ayeshahaqqiqa
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:15 PM
Response to Original message |
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We need to have a strong voice telling it like it is-pointing out the inhumanity of Bush policies.
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pk_du
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:16 PM
Response to Original message |
2. Lesson three - we need to check the grammar of our thread headlines |
dsc
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
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BTW your tag line has a grammatical error in it. The line should read what's not whats. It might be nice is you tried following your own advice.
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Poiuyt
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
20. Children! Do I have to stop this car?! |
pk_du
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
21. My suggestion was well intentioned , honest - but since you want |
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to get pissy...
There is a very obvious typo in the last sentence of your reponse.....and the word is avAtar.
Well, that said, I do think electability matters.....which is why Hillary-08 would be a disaster..even tho i think she'd make great President.
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dsc
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
23. I didn't use the word avatar |
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Edited on Sat Nov-20-04 02:55 PM by dsc
and that is the photo, the line of text is a signature line. I am sorry I over reacted but an honest suggestion of help could have been mailed to me not put in public to embarass. It generally hasn't been cool to criticise the spelling and grammar of the posters.
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ScreamingMeemie
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Sat Nov-20-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
25. Only if we are anal retentive. |
greenohio
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:18 PM
Response to Original message |
3. If winning doesn't matter, vote green! |
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Edited on Sat Nov-20-04 02:19 PM by greenohio
I cannot believe this attitude. "Hey its ok to lose as long as you stand for something." If that is your attitude then vote green. But forcing the Dems to be permanent losers because you have immovable stance is bs. Angry Dean imploded in the primaries. He would have imploded in the general election.
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dsc
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
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Edited on Sat Nov-20-04 02:23 PM by dsc
Just how much worse could Dean have lost? Kerry lost every state in the South and all but three by double digits. Kerry lost every state in the plains and again by double digits. Dean couldn't lose Oklahoma twice.
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greenohio
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
8. And Kerry was quoting Dean, running a Dean campaign. |
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Like we need another liberal from the east coast. Dean is the ultimate loser plan.
Help the greens if you only care about principles but stop dragging down the Dems with dean.
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dsc
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
10. Please site where Dean said any of the following |
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"I voted for the 87 billion before I voted against it" "Anyone who thinks that Iraq isn't better off without Saddam isn't fit to be President." I could go on but won't until you site the date, time, and place where Dean said these, both of which Kerry said.
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greenohio
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
11. Wrong war, wrong time, wrong place dude. |
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Wasn't Dean campaigning full tilt for Kerry? Wasn't he supposed to be the key to youth vote? Isn't that the demographic that stayed home?
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dsc
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
13. Kerry won the youth vote |
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which is the only demographic he did win. Also it should be noted that the percentage of the youth vote in 2000 and 2004 were the same which means more youth voted since more people voted.
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Name removed
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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dsc
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
18. Gee I guess that means you can't argue the point |
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Did calling names feel good? I hope it did.
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greenohio
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
19. Or its a waste a time... |
dsc
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
22. Yeah, I would hate to cut into your time to start a name calling thread. |
sandnsea
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
15. Dean wasn't the candidate |
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Therefore we don't have a list of stupid shit he said. And anyone who doesn't think Iraq is better off without Saddam, isn't fit to be President. Only George Bush could remove a dictator like Saddam and fuck up Iraq so badly that the country is actually worse off. But that's the fault of George Bush, not because Saddam was better for the country.
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Cheswick2.0
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Sat Nov-20-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
27. you are contradicting yourself |
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is Iraq better off or not? Nope it is not. But don't try to understand why, just parrot one of Kerry's most idiotic statements. Saddam was better for the country than what is going on now. He kept the religious fundamentalists and the terrorists at bay. Thousands of people who are now dead would still be living under Saddams rule. I wonder if their wounded and scared loved ones think they are better off. In fact I don't wonder, because I have seen interviews where they say they are worse off. Imagine that..they just want to live and have a roof over their heads and maybe a job, food to eat, electricity. They had that before we invaded.
If we wanted to remove Saddam we could have done it without and invasion and occupation. But Kerry wasn't defending removing Saddam, he was defending the war. He was wrong. Dean was right.
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sandnsea
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Sat Nov-20-04 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
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He was expressing pleasure that Saddam had been caught, that's it, that's all. The Iraqis, the region, the world, are better off without Saddam. It doesn't follow that a war based on lies was the only way to remove him and Kerry has said that so many times it's pointless to repeat it.
Thousands of people are dead because Bush is an idiot and doesn't have any idea how to nation build.
Maybe if Democrats would have said what Kerry really said about this war, people wouldn't have gotten the idea that he'd changed his position.
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Cheswick2.0
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Sat Nov-20-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
31. he was defending his vote for the IWR and he was attacking Dean |
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and Dean's Anti (this) war position. That is the truth and you can try to rewrite history but it won't work.
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sandnsea
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Sat Nov-20-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #31 |
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I'm not going through this again. Dean people can live in whatever delusional land they choose.
It's been over two weeks since the election. At what point should a candidate concede if no evidence of fraud or a stolen election is found? There's NO evidence. Would it be worth a civil war to you? Would it be worth having the Democratic Party be destroyed? What if he'd caused all that havoc and nothing was ever found? Then what?
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greenohio
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Sun Nov-21-04 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #27 |
36. wow, you're just all dean all the time. |
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Edited on Sun Nov-21-04 12:45 AM by greenohio
janx posted that he used to be member of the dlc. Is that true?
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janx
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
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That is not what dsc said at all.
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greenohio
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
12. He is saying to ignore electablity. |
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Ummm, primaries are all about electablity. If I am to ignore electablity, why not just vote green who matches my convictions.
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janx
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
14. You just misquoted him again. n/t |
dsc
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
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There is a difference between ignoring electability and making electability the only criteria. If a teacher gives a grade based 60% on tests and 40% on daily work, is he or she ignoring daily work?
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Cheswick2.0
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Sat Nov-20-04 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
28. yeah and we almost believe you are a member of the Green party |
Cheswick2.0
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Sat Nov-20-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
26. the democrats are permanent losers |
janx
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:21 PM
Response to Original message |
6. Chin up, dsc! We did make some advances. Look: |
nofurylike
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Sat Nov-20-04 02:25 PM
Response to Original message |
7. number ONE: DO NOT GET ROBBED. n/t |
Cheswick2.0
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Sat Nov-20-04 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
29. If you do... try to get your stuff back |
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don't let the robbers get away with it.
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nofurylike
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Sun Nov-21-04 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #29 |
35. excellent next step. essential. :) thank you Cheswick2.0. will do. n/t |
Cheswick2.0
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Sat Nov-20-04 04:47 PM
Response to Original message |
24. great point about obstructionism |
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Edited on Sat Nov-20-04 05:02 PM by Cheswick2.0
they really didn't pay a price did they? Want to bet only a few of us learned that lesson?
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Old Hickory Fan
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Sat Nov-20-04 05:21 PM
Response to Original message |
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UNREAL DEBATE .... GOING TO GET BETTER AND BETTER TODAY
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KnowerOfLogic
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Sat Nov-20-04 07:27 PM
Response to Original message |
34. Hear, hear. But sadly, when 2006 rolls around, you can bet |
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your bottom dollar that dem voter will get squeamish and go with the "safe" candidates and lose again.
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