Which is the more important fight?

[genius]

Which fight is the most important? I've seen a lot about picking out battles. If we are going to pick, we better have a clear picture over which battles is the most important. If you are dead or in prison without rights, you cannnot have an abortion or get married.

[BlueCaliDem]

1. Can't Choose, Because All THREE Are Equally Important to Me. N/T

[genius]

3. So you cannot decide if your child's lfre is worth saving.

If worse came to worse, people could go out of the country to have abortions or get married. If Gonzales kills the, tortures them so they cannnot have children, or locks them up, it's over.

[BlueCaliDem]

28. Again, ALL THREE are EQUALLY Important to me. Clear now? N/T

[Zhade]

2. The first choice includes the second and third choices.

Your poll is flawed. Equality for GLBT (like myself) and a woman's right to control her own body ARE civil rights.

[genius]

5. If someone places a gun to your child's head, it's okay for them to kill

her as long as they tell her she can have an abortion in the next life. Choice may be important but I'm glad your not my parent.

[Zhade]

8. Obviously, this is not what I'm saying. But thanks for playing.

Here's the situation: if someone put a gun to my child's head, that person will die. Period. I will kill them myself.

That said, we can live and still not be alive, and losing one civil right opens the door to losing them all. What kind of life is worth living, without your inherent rights protected?

I'm glad you're not my child, because it would mean I've done a terrible job teaching you critical thinking skills.

[genius]

9. Tough guy. You won't be able to save your child from Gonzales.

If you try, Gonzales will get you first. In response to an earlier post, people felt it was not worth fighting a torturer for AG (whose duty it is to enforce the laws). We have complained about Ashcroft for the last four years. I'd have Ashcroft any day before Gonzales.

[Zhade]

17. Oh, I'd do okay. I'd go to prison for it, but it would happen.

I love my son far more than my own life. If you're a parent, you understand that feeling.

However, see below, and know that I agree with you on opposing Gonzalez. If there are DUers who actually said it's not worth fighting him, FUCK THEM, because they are clearly nuts. You don't NOT fight a guy like Gonzalez.

And I agree - it's frightening when someone like Gonzalez makes me nostalgic for someone like Ashcroft!

We're probably more in agreement than you think, G. :hi:

[genius]

21. I don't believe you could save your child's life if the 4th Reich is fully

installed. It's nice talk and people who watched their kids die in Germany felt the same way as you. But they couldn't and didn't save their chidren. Their children died before their very eyes. Read some of Gonzales's writings. His writings pave the way for the end of your child's right to continue living.

[Zhade]

25. Are you doing this to frighten me into agreeing with you?

I'm already spooked enough daily, and I'm already in agreement with you on opposing Gonzalez, so WHAT the FUCK is your problem? Is there a reason you need to push fear to get me to agree with you even MORE about opposing Gonzalez?

Sheesh.

[genius]

30. It's a realistic clarification of the fight.

I think it is absurd to talk about rights that are based upon being alive and free when we are not willing to fight for our freedom and life and that of those we claim to care about. Your child will probably never need an abortion. Your child may be straight and marry someone society isn't concerned about and not have to fight for the right to marry the person of his/her choice. Your child will definitely need his/her freedom (from imprisonment) and life.

[Zhade]

34. Yet you keep wrongly assuming I don't want to fight.

I have proven otherwise in my posts on this thread. Repeatedly.

I will not give up rights to fight. But I will fight.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. You Are Right

"Those who give up their freedom for security lose both freedom and security."

-Benjamin Franklin


Live free or die baby.....

[MADem]

32. I agree with your reasoning

Civil rights will ensure the rest. The second and third choices are simply a subset of the first.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. As Long As One Of Us Are In Chains None Of Us Are Free

nt

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. All three equally genius...

No backing down on any of it, or I'm gone and millions of women and gay/lesbians will be lost to this party.

[genius]

7. I've just seen a bunch of posts telling us to back down on # 1

I'd back down on the other two first. But if you mean what you say, then help me fight Gonzales.

[Zhade]

11. Why didn't you just say "Help me fight Gonzalez" in the first place?

Why the inflammatory, flawed poll? Why the rush to defend the indefensible - that we must give up some rights to "save lives", when you don't define how to do so? I'm with you on Gonzalez, but not with giving up ANY rights.

I'm not even sure what you're advocating here. Is it that we need to drop #2 and #3 to elect a president to get rid of Gonzalez (assuming he is confirmed)? If so, you're dreaming - either the election was rigged, and we won't win no matter how far right we go, or the election was legit, and we'll never be able to out-fascist the fascists to get a Dem in.

So what exactly is your point, here? Honestly, I have no idea why you proposed this poll. Help a guy out?

[genius]

15. That was in another thread

The overwhelming response was to give up.

[Zhade]

19. Link? I'd like to see who was so cowardly as to suggest such a course.

NT!

[genius]

27. Look at the responses in this thread

Forum Name General Discussion: Politics
Topic subject We cannot let our leaders get away with failing to filibuster Gonzales
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1375520#1375520

[DireStrike]

10. You're assuming that we can't fight for all three?

[genius]

12. A bunch of people posted in another thread that we can't

Are you willing to fight Gonzales, along with the rest?

[Cheswick2.0]

13. those are all civil rights

why is one more important than the other? Why are your civil rights more important than mine?

[Metatron]

16. Yep , all three are civil rights

And therefore need to be equally protected.

[donheld]

14. Poll is fundimentally flawed

These are ALL civil rights. If you vote to deny a womans right to chose or a persons right to same sex marriage, you cannot expect to keep ANY civil right.

[genius]

18. In another thread, people were talking about choosing battles

This provides a look at that choice. If you want to fight all the battles, then fight them. I'll even join you - as long as my family isn't killed by a justice department policy that says torture is okay and civil rights don't matter.

[donheld]

20. So are you willing to fight for ALL civil rights

or just the ones that interest you?

[genius]

23. I'm willing to fight for all of them.

But I don't want people telling me to give up on fighting against Gonzales. I support choice and the right to choose one's partner and I would be glad to fight fot them. But other things matter more to me and I don't want our side giving up on fighting a guy who will make Ashcroft look like a civil rights activist.

[donheld]

29. Fighting Gonzales

If you think Gonzales is going to attack on only one or two areas your sadly mistaken. We must fight him and the rest of Bushies cabal in all the areas we can. I would never tell you to give up on fighting Gonzales, but remember there are, sadly, a lot of others to fight.

[HuskerDem]

22. Choices two and three are encompassed by choice one

So there is no real choice and I cannot vote.

[baldguy]

31. ditto

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. This Is The Most Ridiculous Poll I Have Ever Seen

Kerry got 48% of the vote...


I have long been an advocate of a middle of the road approach but my middle of the road approach doesn't include throwing gays and women off the bus....

[genius]

33. My middle of the road approach doesn't include letting Gonzales torture

my family. Gonzales is the most important battle of the next four years. Dead people can't have abortions or get married.