Rural American values if you skip god, guns and gays.

[stray cat]

Some Americans only see god, guns and gays when they refer to values but I think many Americans are refering to something more abstract when they mention values.

If I vote my values one thing I'm looking for is a leader who speaks the truth even when it isn't politically expedient. I want a leader who will make tough choices for the good of Americans. I also happen to want a leader who values work and labor over corporations and large estate holders.

Are there any rural Duers who could frame what they see as rural values if you get rid of the extreme fundamentalist agenda?

[wtmusic]

1. Expensive health insurance

Huge national debt for our kids to pay off
Making extremely wealthy Americans wealthier
Making Americans hated everywhere in the world
Making America a more dangerous place to live
Increasing air pollution

They value all those things. Don't you?

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Ok this is why this "values" talk bothers me

We are not talking of values here, that is the smokescreen. We are talking of a fundamental failure of ethics, not in rural america, but the corridors of power... both in industry and government.

They are using god, guns and gays as a smokescreen so people do not realize the new American ethics include cheating, lying, and doing whatever it takes, yes even breaking the law, to get what you want

This is what Reinhold Nieburh also saw in the Germany of the 1930s and 40s, and later on wrote about it in his critical work, "Moral man in an Immoral Society."

The German leadership also duped the population, whicih was mostly moral, into believing the others were amoral, while they had incredible lapses in ethical standars accepted from time immemorial, not becuase they are right, but becuase they work in civil society.

[stray cat]

3. I think you're right

nt

[dogman]

4. They have found the G-spot.

There are no other moral values. These are all that concern the average GOP voter.

[Tsiyu]

5. To Me, Rural values honor self-sufficiency

They don't want welfare; they want good schools.

They don't want food stamps; they want decent jobs with benefits and worker's protection.

They don't want subsidies; they want policy that ensures the best prices for their produce.

They don't want war; they want available, affordable health care.

Sometimes they vote against welfare at the expense of the other issues, while being sidetracked with abortion/homosexual arguments.

[Jack Bone]

6. I don't mean to offend...but here's my 2 cents

I live in a small 2 medium sized city..in Indiana..I work in a Union factory that's full of Rural Americans...mostly Repulicans...that supported Bush, despite the fact that their jobs and welfare are on the line..I don't agree w/ their choice, but I feel I understand why they made that choice...This is what I feel...

I believe Rural Americans are simple...not complex...They don't fit into pollsters questions...They believe in things that can't be categorized on a questionaire...I consider them intangibles.

RESPECT is the BIG 1 and it has many folds...I feel it's part of a Patriotism thing...They respect authority figures(President/Policeman/Firemen/Congressmen/Soldiers) they were taught that at a young age....and it's very hard to change that mindset....they don't appreciate it when they feel someone disrespects any of these people...
They respect what they think are American Ideals...Bush played on most of these.."Hard Work".."pulling yourself up by your bootstraps"..."fighting terrorism over there, instead of here"..."American Opportunity"...even if bush doesn't act on these ideals or priciples very well...saying them over & over again at least lets them think he does...These principles went unchallenged for the most part..and I think it hurt our cause.

But the biggest harm were the "Swift Boat Vets"...You wouldn't believe how much BS I heard on that front...and it played right into this whole RESPECT thing....the reason I'm bringing it up is because that's what killed Kerry here in this Rural Redstate...they felt they couldn't respect him...I don't agree w/ them but that was my feeling on how the felt...

I saw Retired Senator Simpson on Bill Maher's show a few weeks ago and although he sounded crazy...I'd have to agree w/ him on how we as Democrats 4 the most part don't understand Rural Americans...hopefully this post and thread helps us to understand that Rural Americans, 4 the most part, can't be catagorized by complex issues...that they think in simple terms that define their everyday lives...I hope that we learn and understand this before '06 Congressionals..

[ComerPerro]

8. Clinton was an authority figure, and they sure as shit didn't respect him

In fact, before 9/11 I heard people like Tim McVeigh be described as "patriots".

[JaneEyrez]

9. Believe it or not, this quotation:

"RESPECT is the BIG 1 and it has many folds...I feel it's part of a Patriotism thing...They respect authority figures(President/Policeman/Firemen/Congressmen/Soldiers) they were taught that at a young age....and it's very hard to change that mindset....they don't appreciate it when they feel someone disrespects any of these people..."

fits perfectly with the theory that the reason Hitler was able to do such horrendous things in Nazi Germany was exactly because of this mindset. People who revere authority unquestioningly have no means of analyzing whether their support of authority makes sense or is self-destructive or any other negative thing which would tend to pull them out of that belief system.

By the way, the reason respect for authority didn't extend to Clinton was because he was too much like them. They didn't think he was worthy of respect because he looked and sounded too much like the Bubba next door.

[Jack Bone]

18. I guess what's simple to some is..

complex to others..and there lies the problem...

Quite a few states,that I feel are rural, believed in and respected Clinton..these are states he won:

in 1992: West Virginia, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, Missouri, Iowa, Louisiana.

in 1996: West Virginia, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri, Iowa, Louisiana.

I believe that Pres. Clinton understood this whole "respect" aspect and used it to win...and he kept things and the message simple..in '92..."Leadership For Change" (I think it was) in '96.."Building A Bridge...."

then the whole "blue dress" incident happened and the respect was lost...and still is today 4 some...don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming Pres. Clinton for this...I simply feel that they lost respect for him...

on to 2000...I'm not arguing that Bush won here...but he did move into The White House...something that shouldn't've ever happened...
but here's my point here..Can anyone remember what V.P. Gore's message was? 'ell I voted 4 him & can't remember! V.P. Gore lost all of those states I named above except for Iowa...

now in 2004...Sen. Kerry lost all of those states named above..(well maybe not Ohio...Jury's still out there) But his message was?
I know this 1..it's on the sign that's STILL in my front yard.."A Stronger & Safer America"...but I feel it was contaminated w/ too many others...some even bad..and you know these..."I voted 4 it..blah blah blah.."...."Unfit for command"...sure lies and misconceptions, but people remember them...

As for unquestioningly following authority...I don't think so...They analyze things in their own way...and very simply...I feel.

They respected Pres. Clinton until he gave them a reason not to...who knows what happened w/ V.P. Gore in terms of respect?...I feel he was made a buffoon w/ the whole "inventing the internet"..and that sure didn't help....W/ Sen. Kerry like I said before..the whole "Swift Boat Vet's" deal hurt his respect w/ these rural voters..

Hopefully in 2006 & 2008 we Democrats can realize that we need a clear & concise, simple message and that we understand these rural voters...because Pres. Clinton showed us that they will support us regardless of "God, Guns & Gays" if we earn their respect...if challenged FIGHT for chrisakes...hell, invite them to a duel...

[ComerPerro]

7. honestly, mid-American conservative voters have no values

Trust me, I know a lot of them. They are good people IF you know them or are related to them, and if they like you. Then, they treat you really well.

But they treat everyone else like complete shit. If they don't know you, they just don't give a fuck at all.

[KnowerOfLogic]

10. I think that's part of the clanninshness; if you are on of them,

you are good by definition, if you're not one of them, you're bad by definition.

[dogman]

16. It's part of the Klannishness too.

[Krs216]

11. There are so many one issue voters out there

In order to beat them, we need to get every liberal in America to the polls. There are so many Democrats who voted for * simply because Kerry's record on guns scare the hell out of them. If we want to finally get these killing machines off of our streets, we will ned every single liberal in America at the polls.

[brentspeak]

12. "Spoon River Anthology" more relevant than ever

Seems every twenty years or so, small town conservatives start a national PR movement to broadcast the myth that they are "morally superior" to the rest of America. "Spoon River Anthology" put the lie to
Heartland America's self-proclaimed superiority 100 years ago.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. Yes, that's how Paul Wellstone became popular among MN rural voters

That's how Peter DeFazio--a short, bald Italian-American Catholic from (gasp!) Massachusetts--remains popular in rural Oregon.

[baltodemvet]

14. The rural scene

Keep in mind that the rural landscape is dominated by farming (literally and figuratively.) Not that everybody farms but farming dominates the culture.

Farmers are dependent on moneymen in distant cities for loans and to buy their crops. They feel like they've always gotten screwed in both directions. The resent the hell out of this and his gets expressed in a deep distrust of cosmopolitanism and a tenacious adherence to the dominant local norms.

Times are tough in rural America these days. The trend is toward factory farming. Small farmers are barely hanging on against the hyper-efficiency of huge-scale, chemically-dependent operations. Every time there's some sort of natural hardship (drought or flood), family farmers go under, selling out to the big boys. This trend is wasting the old instuitutions and towns.

There are opportunities for democrats who effectively address these issues.

[duker63]

15. maybes its cause im from wisconsin

but the whole rural thing to me has no meaning
we drive cars now and no one here is farther than 35 minutes from a walmart
you make rural america sound like a bunch of hicks
and they are not
when i do hear farmers talk politics around here
most of it is definately
GUNS GOD and GAYS
if you want to know why kerry lost its cause of people like this
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=111805
its these closed minded right wing nut jobs that went out and voted
not the sick turn out of the college age voters that did him in

[BamaLefty]

17. That "Values" BS!

Taking people's rights to sue... and leaving them on the street corner with no food in their stomach. Now thats values!

[newyawker99]

21. Hi duker63!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[BeFree]

20. Liberal Media

It's because there exists a slanted media that these people vote against what is, in reality, a better way of governing. No one is going to take away anybody's guns or their god. But these people think a Kerry or Clinton might. Geez.

Gays, well that's a whole 'nuther matter. They may have a point there. Gays will, given the liberalism, become much more evident. So, there's that.

Where do these people get their info and education? From the TV news and the damn liberal media where ya see no god, a lotta guns, and anymore, a lotta gays. Needs ta be a TV show where gays - armed with guns - go after god. That way everyone will know it's all a fantasy.

Damn stupid rednecks. BeFree- a highly cultured redneck.

[jmowreader]

19. The one thing that scares the shit out of a farmer more than anything

Petroleum prices.

Forget gay marriage--the farmer knows that with all of the Republicans in his state's legislature and all the Republican judges on his state's supreme court, there won't be any gay marriage in his state.

He doesn't like paying for welfare, but that's not his biggest concern.

Petroleum is the lifeblood of agriculture. All his equipment runs on diesel, all his fertilizer is either manure or petrochemicals, all of his pesticides, herbicides, growth regulators, ad infinitum, are petrochemicals...shall I go on? If the price of a barrel of oil goes up a dollar, forget about profit this year. And this holds true whether he's a 50-acre or a 50,000-acre farmer.

If you're going to turn a farmer into a Democrat you simply must come up with an energy policy that acknowledges the simple fact that farmers need affordable diesel as much as they need water. Us running around saying we're going to tax the shit out of fuel to discourage its use is NOT HELPING.