zulchzulu
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:30 PM
Original message |
How would Dean assess Presidential contenders if DNC Chair? |
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Edited on Sun Nov-21-04 02:39 PM by zulchzulu
My take...
Senators
New York - Hillary Clinton She is too much of a rival and he would probably not want her as candidate.
Massachusetts - John Kerry Having been recently beaten and with rumors that Kerry supports Vilsack, he would not want him to be the candidate.
North Carolina - John Edwards Having just lost in the primary and seeing Edwards as too centrist, he would not want him as candidate.
Indiana - Evan Bayh Still stinging from Iowa loss last primary season, he would undermine his candidacy.
Wisconsin - Russ Feingold Although Russ will probably not run in 2008, Dean might want him to.
Delaware - Joe Biden Would be considered too moderate to be considered a candidate
Tennessee - Howard Ford Possibly would back him, although Ford backed Kerry in primary
Connecticut - Joe Lieberman Would love to undermine any attempt by this guy to run again
Vermont - Patrick Leahy Not sure if he would want him to run
Illinois - Barack Obama Might want to run him, although Obama needs more time
Governors New Mexico - Bill Richardson A little too moderate
Iowa - Tom Vilsack Darth Vader
Virginia - Mark Warner Maybe
Vermont - Howard Dean Hmmmm...
Illinois - Rod Blagojevich Who?
Arizona - Janet Napolitano Not...
Pennsylvania - Ed Rendell Too moderate
Reps Ohio - Dennis Kucinich Probably won't run, but if he does...who knows...
Illinois - Jesse Jackson, Jr. Probably won't run
Other Wesley Clark Accused of being a Republican durng primary season
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janx
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:34 PM
Response to Original message |
1. Wow, you're assuming Dean holds a lot of grudges, aren't you? |
zulchzulu
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
4. What would he do...if he wants to appeal to his base... |
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Would Dean go along with a "centrist", "moderate" candidate while it's under his watch?
He would want to knock off those that have made it known they want Vilsack or implied such a choice...that's my guess.
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janx
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
17. I don't think (re the Vilsack deal) that Dean is quite that shallow... |
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But they guy is a fiscal conservative and a centrist, and so are most of his supporters.
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ScreamingMeemie
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
18. ummm....I consider myself part of his base...and I am no "raging |
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liberal" $2500 says I'm his base.
Thanks.
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madfloridian
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
34. I don't think he can be given a label. I don't like one either. |
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I call myself moderate because the bible advocates moderation in all things. I accomplish that pretty well.
I have noticed that when he speaks out, he is not speaking in a partisan manner. He spares no one.
I think the fact that he has standards, applies them, listens, but doesn't pander.....has a lot to do with why folks supported him.
He has said the DFA will support progressive thinking candidates of other parties as well at times. He made that clear day one. We raised over 60,000 dollars for Daschle overnight. We did the same for other candidates he asked donations for. When special requests go out we respond by giving or not giving....it is a personal decision.
I really think when you label him, you label all of us who are members of DFA. He made a statement at Yale that about half of his supporters were not Democrats to begin with. I believe that, as we have that here in our area.
BTW, he carries no grudges. He just speaks his mind, perhaps more clearly than some would like. It is not offensive to me, because I have a deep anger inside over this war, over the financial mess our country is in, and over the Medicare bill...also the horrible school bill. I think it is time someone spoke out.
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blm
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Sun Nov-21-04 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
45. I agree, janx. I don't think Dean is holding grudges. I think he really |
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wants to see Dems regain power and wants to contribute whatever skills he has, as well as tapping into the skills of others. I think ALL the primary candidates came away respectful of each other and did their best to defeat Bush, except Lieberman, who I think wasn't as helpful as he could have been during the last months of the campaign.
The best way to move forward is for all Dems to come to grips with the values they DO share, which are considerable, and stop attacking each other to amuse the media who is behind the fostering of the stereotypes being used for these attacks.
In common ground you find the strength to overcome the areas of more diverse opinion that we hold dear but that the GOP uses to create weakness.
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janx
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Sun Nov-21-04 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #45 |
53. The media LOVE fostering the stereotypes; you're right. |
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That's how they build audience these days, unfortunately. They don't even bother to source quotes now. Most of the "news" consists of crap gossip.
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imenja
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:35 PM
Response to Original message |
2. Dean and Edwards made alliances during the primary |
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I also don't see why Edwards would be too centrist and Harold Ford isn't. I also think if Dean wants to run for president in 2008, he shouldn't take the head of DNC position.
Does anyone know if a candidate besides Bob Dole has gone from party head to presidential nominee in a single four year cycle?
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janx
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:36 PM
Response to Original message |
3. You're not sure if Dean would want Pat Leahy to run?! |
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Is this a joke thread? ;-)
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zulchzulu
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
7. Well...would Dean want Leahy to run? |
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Actually I'm not sure leahy wants to run, but after skimming through various lists on the net, his name popped up.
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janx
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
11. Dean and Leahy are almost synonymous, Zulch. |
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Leahy was one of his first and most ardent supporters, both in Vermont and then during Dean's primary run.
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ScreamingMeemie
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:37 PM
Response to Original message |
5. You mean DNC Chair, right? |
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I think Howard Dean would do much toward healing the party from the inside out. My opinion of course.
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zulchzulu
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
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I corrected the title. Thanks.
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leyton
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:38 PM
Response to Original message |
6. Dean is a moderate/centrist. |
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I'll refer you to his fiscal conservatism and his A+ rating from the NRA.
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zulchzulu
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
10. But is that the perception from those who want him to be Chair? |
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I'm thinking that he is perceived as more to the left than his actual record...no?
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janx
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
12. Only by those that believe everything they watch on TV. n/t |
ScreamingMeemie
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
14. There you are wrong. I am a moderate, at least I was until others told |
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me I was not. I want him to be moderate fiscally, and more to the left where social issues are concerned. The media has made him into a loony leftist, much as some here on DU like to characterize his supporters. I just got back from church a little while ago (we're checking out the Lutherans after leaving the Catholic church after 34 years) and am just about to make some venison round steak. I hope that answers your question.
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Cheswick2.0
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
21. You see, all of us "Deaniacs" are supposed to be confused liberals |
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the OP thinks, like so many others here that if we just understood how much of a centrist he is we would reject him. They are hopelessly trapped in their left-right dichotomy. Now here you are... a moderate and you support him. I am a liberal and I support him too. It's enough to make their heads explode.
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ScreamingMeemie
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
26. This is why I am so glad for the DFA group here on DU. If one would |
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only go and look at the wide range of voices there perhaps we could end this Rovian rumor.
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Cheswick2.0
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
13. Dean is a raging liberal |
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may I refer you to his opposition to the war, hiw rejection of NCLB, his almost universal healthcare, his sucess with lowering child abuse and unemployment and his support for Gay unions in VT.
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ScreamingMeemie
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
16. He is liberal where we need liberal...moderate where moderation |
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works best in my opinion. :hi:
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Cheswick2.0
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
25. You and I get it.... OP does not |
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and that is funny as hell.
Q. Should the democraic party go right or left?
A. Both, but what is wrong with having convictions along the way? We remember convictions don't we.. those things we are not willing to trade for votes. :hi:
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ScreamingMeemie
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #25 |
28. Bingo! And you and I have had our differences in the past. Here we |
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are, blowing their minds again.
:yourock:
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janx
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
31. I don't know how you kept your mind together during the |
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primaries when you were a mod.
I've always wondered. But I don't want to hash it out here. Just know that I wondered about it all the time!
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Cheswick2.0
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
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whatever differences we have had are forgotten on my part. Hope we don't have them again.
:yourock: too
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ScreamingMeemie
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
35. Forgotten here as well. |
greenohio
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
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Edited on Sun Nov-21-04 03:24 PM by greenohio
Just popped in to see if the dean channel is still up and running. So now dean is a MODERATE from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party (P. Wellstone original quote BTW).
He's moderate on economic issues (like the DLC) and guns of all things. Can never have to many guns, I guess. I'm told, he was a member of the DLC (can't find that from other than DU). But deaniacs hate the DLC because they soften on economic issues, like uhh, dean.
Does the DLC have positions on social issues? I can't find them. Clinton stood firm on choice and fought for gays in the military. DOMA is kind of a black eye. Kerry voted against DOMA however. I thought John Kerry, on choice voted and spoke pretty consistently. Kerry supports civil unions, just like dean.
I asked on another thread. But never a response. What are these core issues that separates dean? Are the social issues the issues that matter? If so, what was wrong with Kerry?
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Cheswick2.0
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Sun Nov-21-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #38 |
48. sorry you are so confused |
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stick around and learn, everyone does sooner or later.
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greenohio
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Sun Nov-21-04 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #48 |
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only condecension. Once again, fits the mold.
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Forkboy
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Sun Nov-21-04 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #56 |
58. Haven't seen any answers from you either |
greenohio
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Mon Nov-22-04 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #58 |
60. Apparently you don't read my posts. |
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Is there a question you want answered Forkboy?
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Cheswick2.0
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Mon Nov-22-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #60 |
63. apparently you edited your post |
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maybe he hasn't read the new version.
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greenohio
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Mon Nov-22-04 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #63 |
64. I fixed spelling errors. |
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Give me fricken break.
If you don't love dean, you're freeper or you go back and change your posts.
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Cheswick2.0
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Mon Nov-22-04 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #56 |
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there weren't any questions before your edit. Only statements.
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greenohio
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Mon Nov-22-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #62 |
65. The questions were there before. |
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If I didn't have questions, why was the reply that I would learn.
Man you need a life.
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Mon Nov-22-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #62 |
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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greenohio
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Mon Nov-22-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #66 |
67. Huh? You removed that? |
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All I said was look at the time of the posting and the edit, they were the same minute. The edit was posted before any replies.
Lets see if this gets deleted.
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zulchzulu
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
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He's a raging liberal to some and a centrist moderate to others. Why is that?
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janx
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
22. Ches was being sarcastic. |
ScreamingMeemie
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
24. Why don't you tell us? |
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:shrug: Most would think it's a good thing that he appeals to a wide range. (my Libertarian husband and cousin included, along with a few of my husbands Republican coworkers). Yet, you do not. Why is that?
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Cheswick2.0
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
30. My meet up was almost 1/4 republican |
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half democrats and another quarter liberal third party (Green, New Party, socialists) members.
To understand one only has to attend a Wellstone training. They talk about authenticity, convictions, honesty, the importance of REAL grassroots support, how Paul was supported by republicans who DISAGREED WITH HIM... it is all so clear to me.
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zulchzulu
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #24 |
36. I would support Dean for the chair and have said so before |
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I just wonder what he would do with the potential candidates running and whether he would impede their candidacy based on past statements and experiences with those candidates.
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janx
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
40. If this is based on past experiences and statements, then |
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I have to assume that the list you are most concerned about is a little shorter than the one you posted.
C'mon...out with it! What's on your mind?
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zulchzulu
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
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I'd support Dean for the DNC chair, but have a feeling a couple things might derail his tenure:
1. I think he might have some problems backing someone he considers "too moderate", even though some see him as a "moderate".
2. If he does decide to back someone who is "moderate", would people who back him and think he is a "raging liberal" think he is a sell-out and thus turn off a lot of younger supporters that he is supposed to be able to mobilize.
I think he would be a good choice, but if we were to equate his leadership with being a leader of a band, would the band think they are heavy metal or new age?
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janx
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #43 |
44. Neither one, probably. |
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The two criteria for candidates who obtain support from DFA are that the candidate should be fiscally responsible and socially sane. By the latter I mean, basically, that the candidate should respect the separation of church and state.
I do get the feeling, from what I've read, that Dean favors candidates who are not "yes" men or women, candidates who have somewhat of an independent streak and are able to get things done.
But these candidates should have support of the people where they live, first and foremost. The "you have the power" slogan only meant exactly that.
So in effect, it's really not up to Dean. "We, the People..." etc.
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ZombieNixon
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Sun Nov-21-04 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #43 |
57. Heavy metal or new age? |
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Punk rock.
Dean's views really can't be pigeonholed. He is, like I am, a fiscal moderate and a social progressive.
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ScreamingMeemie
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #36 |
42. You didn't answer my question. How is it wrong to appeal to a broad |
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range, since we have illustrated this to be the case?
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Sun Nov-21-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
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Cheswick2.0
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
joelogan
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:40 PM
Response to Original message |
9. who gives a flying fuck about what the DLC wants? |
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You think these millionaires are going to support policies that help ordinary Americans? Hell, no.
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The Wielding Truth
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
29. If we do it right both sides will come a courtin'.DLC and RNC. |
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We could be the chord that each side will need to strike. This Country is split 51%clueless and 49% heartbroken.If we could give the powerless left(us) and the, soon to find out, lower middle class (80% Republican Party) a voice. We can move both sides to the table. Can you see it?
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joelogan
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
33. I want a candidate who is hated by both the DLC AND the RNC |
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I do not want any part of a candidate that either the RNC OR the DLC LIKES.
What I want is a candidate that both the DLC and the RNC AND the elite media HATE. THat is my candidate!
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Cheswick2.0
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
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Except I think the DLC is going to fold and disappear when politicians find they don't need them to be elected anymore.
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Cheswick2.0
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:47 PM
Response to Original message |
15. Are you auditioning for CNN? |
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Not only can you read minds but you are a psychoanalyst too. You'd make a great "pundit".
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zulchzulu
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
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You could be my first guest. Look into the crystal ball.
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goodhue
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Sun Nov-21-04 02:57 PM
Response to Original message |
23. DNC Chair must be impartial and evenhanded as to presidential candidates |
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Edited on Sun Nov-21-04 02:57 PM by goodhue
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Placebo
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:27 PM
Response to Original message |
39. Umm, Dean isn't God, and doesn't choose the nominee. |
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His job, which he won't be getting by the way, would be to simply do all he could to support whoever the 'people' chose in the primaries.
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ScreamingMeemie
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Sun Nov-21-04 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #39 |
41. Placebo, why don't you go back and answer some of the posts on |
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your other thread, before moving on? :shrug:
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fujiyama
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Sun Nov-21-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message |
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you're being a bit too simplistic in your labels.
While the primaries really did get nasty, Dean is actually on pretty good terms with many of them. Take Bill Richardson for example. I don't think he endorsed anyone in the primaries but Richardson earlier supported Dean's bid for DNC chair. He may have backed off recently though, as might have Pelosi after being urged by Kerry to back Vilsack.
I also never recall any problems between Dean and Edwards. In fact, remember during the heat of the primaries, when it was really nasty between Dean and Kerry, Dean even said he preferred Edwards win the nomination.
I think the primaries are old hat by now. Most people forgave and moved on. I doubt him and Clark have any problems either at this point. I also think Dean campaigned with Kucinich. I saw a great pic with the two the other day.
The only candidate in the primaries I'm sure Dean dislikes is Lieberman, and in this case I can't blame him. Lieberman was an ass hole during the primaries....and he's never let up on this "Dean is a far left liberal" thing. He recently openly said that Dean wouldn't be good for DNC chair.
As for Leahy, DFA contributed a good amount of money to his campaign. I have no reason to believe they're not on good terms...though I don't remember if Leahy endorsed anyone in the primaries. I doubt he did though because he probably knew the other three senate candidates well, as well as Dean who's from his state.
Ford probably won't run for president just yet. He'll likely run for senate in '06. I hope he wins. It'll be a tough race.
Biden won't matter in '08, because no northeaster is getting the nomination (that's unless the party is stupid and nominates Hillary).
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Cheswick2.0
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Sun Nov-21-04 05:12 PM
Response to Original message |
47. Well he could always journal... or keep a running record |
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perhaps mulitple choice or a final project? My personal favorite would be a Rubric.
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quaker bill
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Sun Nov-21-04 06:06 PM
Response to Original message |
49. Honestly, I just don't see it |
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Edited on Sun Nov-21-04 06:10 PM by quaker bill
While Dean might not go out of his way to support some of the listed choices, I strongly doubt that he would act to "undermine" any of them.
He did not agree with Kerry on all things, but he raised money for him and campaigned for him.
He worked to elect over 300 democratic candidates across the country. Nothing in the character of his actions even remotely suggests that he would engage in this sort of behavior.
Your thinking is mired in the past. It is true that we have had a history of eating our own. I have seen none of this from DFA.
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zulchzulu
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Sun Nov-21-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #49 |
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I know the buttons. Just kickin' the tires too.
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Cheswick2.0
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Sun Nov-21-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #51 |
52. so this thread was intentional flame bait? |
zulchzulu
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Sun Nov-21-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #52 |
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No.
This is meant to be about the candidates who are running...and what Dean might think about them...
...and what he might think or do with his hot-tempered kind of Scorpio personality and the misperceptions people have about him...
...is he liberal? is he moderate? ...
...does he want the Chair for reasons like cutting off potential candidates or does he want to help the Democratic Party become really the Democratic Party.
...and maybe what happens to the DFA if he's doing the DNC...
...and what the moon will be in in February will all this shit goes down.
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Capn Sunshine
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Sun Nov-21-04 07:03 PM
Response to Original message |
55. That's a BIG cart before the horse |
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Edited on Sun Nov-21-04 07:04 PM by Capn Sunshine
or Donkey.:dem: There is so much to do t fix the party before 2008 , like getting a successful 2006 done. Gov. Dean has always been an equitable and gracious party-first man. Imagine the drubbing Kerry would have taken had he not pleaded with his own supporters to vote for him and stumped exhaustively for the guy. That is not the action of a petty and venal guy. It's the actions of a dedicated Democrat.
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janx
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Sun Nov-21-04 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #55 |
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is all-important right now.
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WI_DEM
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Mon Nov-22-04 11:49 AM
Response to Original message |
61. do some research, if Dean is DNC chair he is neutral on '08 |
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and can't run himself, so there.
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DU
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Sat May 11th 2024, 06:35 AM
Response to Original message |