Raise your hand if you agree that Malloy is right- It's the MACHINES!

[UpsideDownFlag]

is to GET RID OF THE DAMN MACHINES!

i am sick and tired of all these "ooh, gee, the morals beat kerry." "shucks, i guess we should focus on hillary in 08".

we did nothing wrong. look at the facts. it was the MACHINES.

[AntiCoup2K4]

1. I'm in

:hi:

Until the electro-fraud machines are gone, nothing changes.

[UpsideDownFlag]

4. it really is that simple. we can bicker about whatever we want...

but NOTHING will change until the machines are gone. i guarantee you, if this doesn't happen, we'll lose even more seats in 06.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

2. Consider my hand raised.

Please don't flame me for asking, but what can we do about it. I live in Cook County, IL and we don't use the touchscreen machine. We still use punch cards.

I really want to do something about this before the next election, but I really don't know where to begin.

[NVMojo]

5. unlike us Nevadans, prepare for this ...before someone takes away

the punch cards. Look at your state's Constitution. Find out if it requires a hard copy record of the vote. The Nevada Constitution does and our Repuke Secretary of State is going to push to change our Constitution to get rid of the permanent physical record. That is one starting point...

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

9. Thanks, NVMojo. I'll start tomorrow.. n/t

[bettyellen]

11. THERE WERE PUNCHCARD CHEATING ALLEGATIONS

MENTIONED ON A BOARD HERE ONCE.. SUPPOSEDLY VANITY FAIR WAS SUPPOSED TO RUN A PIECE AND SHELVED IT A FEW TIMES.
THE PUNCH MACHINE MAKERS (ONE OF THE THREE COMPANIIES. MAYBE ESS-- THAT IS CONNECTED TO THE DIEBOLD PEOPLE ANYWAY) SUPPOSEDLY OFFERED LOCAL OFFICALS A GREAT DEAL ON THE CARDS THEMSELVES ALSO- SINCE THEY ALREADY KNOW THE PRODUCT SPECS, ETC., IT MADE LIFE EASIER FOR THE COUNTY PEOPLE TO PUT IN THE ORDER WITH THEM, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE PRICES WERE VERY GOOD.
TURNS OUT THE CARDS, OR SPECIFICALLY THE CHADS, BEHAVE VERY DIFFERENTLY IF THE PAPER IS CUT ON A DIFFERENT GRAIN. I HAVE WORKED WITH HARD PAPER (LIKE OAK TAG) FOR A LOT OF YEARS AND I CAN TELL YOU IT'S TRUE. YOU CAN GET A CRISP FOLD IN ONE DIRECTION, AND NOT AT ALL IN THE OTHER, IT JUST VERY DIFFERENT. THIS WOULD EXPLAIN A LOT OF THE HANGING CHADS, ETC.
ANYWAY YOU CAN DO SOME RESEARCH INTO THAT?
GOOD LUCK!

[NVMojo]

3. the repuke insiders knew exactly what they were doing ...

the machines need to go!!

[UpsideDownFlag]

6. kick. I know there are lots more truthseekers out there. nt

[Eloriel]

7. Maybe we don't recognize your name for him.

Mallow?

ROTFL. It took me awhile and I wasn't sure til I saw this post about "truth seekers."

(I'm just ribbing you a bit. We ALL make typos.)

[UpsideDownFlag]

10. oh, bloody hell. i always misspell people's names in my thread titles.

eh.

[troubleinwinter]

8. Machines don't steal elections...

PEOPLE (who RIG machines) steal elections.

[lessthanjake]

12. Look at the facts?

To my knowledge we unfortunately dont have any facts that the machines were rigged...

[mom-mad-about-bush]

14. The only way to prove fraud is with a hand recount.

[mom-mad-about-bush]

13. FRAUD, NOT MORALS IS WHY KERRY LOST THIS ELECTION!!!!

[duker63]

15. i really think kerry lost this one

im sure there is fraud
but i think the extreme right mobilised mroe voters

[UpsideDownFlag]

17. if your sure there is fraud, then why does it matter who voted where?

all they have to do is siphen off a certain amount of votes in key districts.

[Applepie]

16. Our sloppy voting system

is responsible for Kerry's defeat. We need to make sure this gets changed so that every vote will count.

[underseasurveyor]

18. It's the machines

and those that control the ones that control those machines. I will always be convinced of that fact.

We Gotta Kill Those Damn Machines!

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

19. Mike is right, it's the MACHINES!!!

[seabeyond]

20. this is where i get to

there was a thread, what we would hold firm on and not compromise on. i listed. the person said, then how do you address the lost election. i address it that holding firm last time won us the election. it was stolen. was just thinking, going to see in laws and if they say anything about "president" bush. i was gonna say, not my president. know it was stolen. i wont honor that

[Starlight]

21. It's the machines, combined with the lines, throwing away

voter registrations & bribing election officials.

[demobabe]

22. It's NOT the machines.

Okay, it IS the machines, but not JUST the machines.

It's the Republican packed court system.

It's the possibility of fraud in any voting setup - regardless of the technology.

It's the redistricting to maximize Republican seats.

It's the media selling bits and pieces of the election to suit their interests instead of reporting on the election.

It's the disenfranchisement of voters in heavily Democratic areas.

It's the Republican challengers.

It's all the other dirty tricks they pull...

It's the fact we have no Constitutional Right to vote.

It's the fact we have no Constitutional Right to have our vote counted.

[greenohio]

23. I posted this on a separate thread....

Here is a process to drop all centralized counting (machines/electronic).

Why not, after the polls close, count the ballots by hand at the PRECINCT. Reprepentatives from each candidate on the ballot can be present. The counting is video taped. The count then is announced for the precinct and certified there.

With this system, to commit fraud, it would take a huge conspiracy with enough people to cover every precinct. In the current model, because the ballots are counted at the county board, all it takes is one or two well placed people with access to the ballots, the counting, the machines or the software to fix the results.

Just thinking online here.

[UpsideDownFlag]

24. that, mr. ohio, is a very good idea. nt

[greenohio]

31. Thanks

I'm told that Canada and UK have something similiar. The name of the game is to decentralize counting so it takes a large number of people to fix the count. The ballots need to be counted before they are transported. Otherwise anthything can happen once they leave the building.

[bunny planet]

26. The Republicans just filed a lawsuit in Washington state's Governor race

trying to stop hand recounts of provisional ballots (or punch cards), they said that hand counting of the cards would lead to, catch this 'human enhancement' of the vote. I believe a judge just threw this attempt to stop the hand count out but can you believe it. Was it called 'human enhancement' before machines were invented to count votes?

[meow2u3]

25. "Moral values" won this election

Moral values won, all right--twisted moral values!!! Cheating, lying, blackmail, extortion, election machine fraud---that's Republicommie moral values

[shance]

27. Yep. Its the machines, stupid*

n/t

[leftofthedial]

28. as long as the machines are in place

we will never have another legitimate election.

[evilqueen]

29. yes, it is the machines...

but one thing bothers me... people calling for one voting method nationwide.

Why does that bother me? Because it makes it easier to hack the elections.

It's like forest monoculture... the danger is that one "disease" can wipe out the whole forest.

[Liberty Belle]

30. Repug cheated big-time.

It's the crooked voting machines--plus the voter intimidation tactics, couting votes behind closed doors, and long lines in Dem precincts due to lack of equipment there.

[Protagoras]

32. considering the BILLIONS we spent on the campaigns

one would think we could afford a simple system with paper reciepts. Or better yet, how about the 100% most reliable system that had 3 layers of validation. Or would the hundred million more it would cost cut into the multibillion dollar advertizing budgets? Silly me, what was I thinking...democracy has to be CHEAP right?