As it stands, Democrats will NEVER win another election. Nov 3, 11:10pm

[IdaBriggs]

ON EDIT: Typo in the Subject -- doh!

(Originally Posted in the 2004 Election Results Forum; See Update Below)

I'm an Independent, and I am telling you the truth:

You won in 2000, and Gore rolled over.

You won in 2004, and Kerry rolled over.

You did everything right -- a good candidate, worst opponent EVER in the history of the United States, a good organization, good people, you name it -- more people were active and involved in this election than I have EVER seen before in my life.

And you lost -- WE LOST -- because it was STOLEN.

No one is afraid of you. You lose, you whimper, you whine, you roll over, and the Republicans laugh.

I am a 38 year old college educated woman sitting at a computer in Michigan, and I was able to read reputable evidence of voter fraud in two states, but your candidate -- MY CANDIDATE -- conceded the election, and devastated his supporters.

Is it possible he's playing "rope-a-dope"? Who cares? You will NEVER be able to muster the level of support you garnered this election -- money, time, energy, commitment -- EVER AGAIN because IT DOESN'T MATTER: they STOLE IT, and everything was just some stupid game that made the networks a ton of money, and kept everyone feeling like they were making a difference to democracy.

I am sorry to tell you this, but John Kerry just allowed democracy as we know it to be destroyed. I trust him, so I assume he has a good reason -- perhaps his life was threatened? John McCain is also someone who did the same damn thing not that long ago. The rash of plane crashes containing government officials who don't tow the line certainly raises my suspicions, but let me be clear:

I DON'T CARE. If they are playing dirty, and you folks aren't, SCREW YOU. I'm not interested in your high and mighty falluting principals when I'm burying people I love who SHOULDN'T BE DYING!!! If they are hiring CHURCHES to spread their gospel, WHY IN HELL AREN'T YOU PEOPLE? There was over THREE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS TO PAY FOR IT; WHAT THE HELL WAS THE PROBLEM?

"Start a revolution" -- who cares? What do ANY OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT? What'cha going to do, MARCH AROUND IN CIRCLES SOME MORE?

If you aren't putting the crooks in jail, you as a party are completely useless, and your vaunted principals are simply marketing tools.

What more EVIDENCE of conspiracy, murder, theft, you name IT do you folks need before your "leaders" do ANYTHING about it?

Want to know why I'm an Independent? The Republicans are corrupt scum bags, and the Democrats are INEFFECTUAL -- you keep thinking "the rules" apply, when in reality, you have entered a death match.

Right now, DEMOCRACY is down for the count.

Tell me what to do, folks. I'll jump in and join the battle. But I'm not going to waste my time trying to get more VOTES than a bunch of folks who can make numbers MAGICALLY appear when they need them to be there the night of an election -- do I look STUPID?

We didn't lose; we were ROBBED, RAPED, AND LEFT TO DIE. They are laughing their fool heads off, and if they get away with it AGAIN, no one has the right to say ANYTHING about "democracy in America" EVER AGAIN. Your party will die a deserved death for not doing what it needed to do to protect the people.

Now either WHINE AT ME, or GIVE ME A SHOVEL AND TELL ME WHERE TO START DIGGING!!!

And someone tell KERRY TO GET HIS ASS BACK HERE, AND GET TO WORK!!!

UPDATE: I began the New Hampshire Voter Study that night (www.invisibleida.com), and am credited with influencing the Nader folks to recount there. I am now on the advisory board of "Help America Recount" (www.helpamericarecount.org) which is raising funds to help audit the 2004 Presidential election. My shock at the amount of reported "problems" in this election (www.votersunite.org) ALL benefiting GWB has not dissipated, and I am working with a network of people who are actively investigating fraud. Some of the stories are hysterically funny (garbage bags filled with evidence ripped open in a tug of war between a fraud investigator and an election official CAUGHT ON TAPE), while others are infuriating (police officers used to intimidate voters CAUGHT ON TAPE).

The Democratic leadership has been nowhere near this effort; the grassroots DEMAND for accountability in our election system has been inspiring. Its not about Kerry becoming President anymore; its about INTEGRITY IN OUR VOTING SYSTEMS.

Election 2004 is not over yet -- don't let the Rush Limbaugh's and Sean Hannity's of the world get you down, especially because they are going to try. (Surprise, huh?) There's a lot of work to do still, and your help is needed. (I'm not just talking money, although I thank you for the donations you made to the Nader folks to help make the New Hampshire recount happen!) I'll give you an update tomorrow because I'm exhausted from the non-stop pace of the last couple of weeks while recovering from bronchitis, and I want to go to bed. Stay tuned until then -- AND GRAB A SHOVEL!!!

[Generator]

1. Thanks!

I pretty much agree with all your passion. Thanks for your effort!!!

You give me hope. It's not a false hope either. Rest well.

[merh]

2. Thank you Ida for this update, now go get some much needed

rest.

It is very encouraging that you write "Election 2004 is not over yet -- don't let the Rush Limbaugh's and Sean Hannity's of the world get you down, especially because they are going to try. (Surprise, huh?) There's a lot of work to do still, and your help is needed. (I'm not just talking money, although I thank you for the donations you made to the Nader folks to help make the New Hampshire recount happen!) I'll give you an update tomorrow because I'm exhausted from the non-stop pace of the last couple of weeks while recovering from bronchitis, and I want to go to bed. Stay tuned until then -- AND GRAB A SHOVEL!!!"

When you have rested, please let us know what we can do.

I have my shovel read! :toast: and raise my glass to you!!

Bless you and sweet dreams. :loveya:

[bloom]

3. I appreciate everything you are doing...

It sure would be a good time for a Martin Luther King kind of person to step up to the plate and get people revved up.

It takes times like these for there to be a reason for great leaders to lead.

It may be that not enough people "get it" yet - but that is how it is with these things. We need someone out there helping people to see.


P.S. Maybe the leader is out there and I just don't know who it is... I guess I would like to see more... :shrug:

[ohioan]

7. Why wait around for a leader to save you?

MLK wasn't a leader until he stepped up to the plate and DID something.

We're ALL leaders - DO something!

What are you waiting for?

[bloom]

12. Sorry - I don't think it's too much to expect

that a political party have a leader.

I think Dean is trying, Kucinich has been trying... and maybe one of them is it.


Kerry was a leader in the 70's anti-war movement - he is not the same kind of leader now.

Not everyone is able to pull that off.


And apparently - people can lose the ability... through time, circumstance... need for a reason.........???

[ohioan]

14. Martin Luther King was not the leader of a political party . . .

And since you referred to him, I assumed you were not limiting your wishful thinking to a mere politician.

Leaders do not just spring up fully formed at the national level out of nowhere. They start out at the ground level, where they are identified, groomed, developed, supported and pushed into action by people just like you and me. Please don't just sit around waiting for someone "to step up to the plate." Go out and start recruiting.

[bloom]

19. parties, etc.

I think if the Democrats don't get some leadership that is worth following - we will be looking for a leader for whatever movement we are going to need to get us out of this mess.

Maybe we're not there yet.

I rather think some of us are.



I support my local radicals. :)

[Donald Ian Rankin]

48. In a perfect world

whether or not a party had a leader would be entirely irrelevant. There is absolutely no reason why having a charismatic proponent should make a group of ideas any more or less valid.

We ought to be able to mean what we say when we talk about "policies not personalities".

You may well be right. I wish you were wrong.

[Sydnie]

4. Ida, I'm in Mass, tell me what I can do to help you.

I appreciate what you are saying and I agree with it completely. I have written letters to my reps, posted notices all over town and free way blogged as well, sent money that I didn't have and talked to every person that would listen (and some who didn't want to too). I am not a mathematically inclined person so working the "numbers" I would only be a hindrance. I am somewhat artistic though and have done what I could on my own.

What else can I do? I feel helpless but not hopeless. I am angry and ready to enter the fight for all of our sakes. I fear that I have felt this way since last January and volunteered my time in NH when ever I could to help turn the state.

What can someone like me do to lighten your load?

edited to add -- Ida, I wrote about you last night -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1377500&mesg_id=1377500 get some rest now!

[BeFree]

15. You Go Girl !!

You're doing it!

Here's what I've been planning. Gonna get with other like minded folks and make sure those damn machines are never used in my town again. While thinking globally, I'm acting locally. I will be a familar face at the county's elections office. Gonna get the nitty-gritty lowdown on the machines they've been using, and show 'em up for what they are to anyone who'll listen, and some who don't wanna.

Statewide, gonna get with a bunch of folks and make sure it's paper ballots from here to Raleigh, and beyond.

It's gonna take time. We may not be able to pull this most recent election out of the bag, but they ain't never gonna get another one even close. It will take working at this issue for the next one and a half years - up to the time the elections are set in 2006.

Don't ever give up. Too many soldiers have died fighting for our rights and for our freedom to vote.

[senseandsensibility]

5. Wow.

If only even one of our Dem politicians or "journalists" had your passion. I'm exhaused just reading your post, and in tears. Get some rest. The fight will continue.:)

[politicasista]

6. All this news makes me wish that Kerry didn't concede.

:(

[senseandsensibility]

11. I wished that while it was happening

because I knew something was wrong even then. I was in denial, but I still knew... I've always thought that Kerry is brave and intelligent and trustworthy, but there have been times when I've wondered about his "street smarts", for lack of a better word. Is he really capable of comprehending these monsters and what they're capable of?

[whalerider55]

8. thank you

my feelings exactly.

this is about enfranchisement; and i have been vocal about my disappointment with the DNC and the rest of the politicos for failing this test.

i await instructions. i'll look for your next post. thanks again.

whalerider55

[BeFree]

9. Ya nailed it

Too, too many dems are rolling over and taking it like it was nothing. Were the pukes on the other end of the stick, they'd be rioting in the streets.

Hell, I told my county commissioner the other night: "You're next!"
Know what he said?

"So what" Aaaargh!!

Even here we got some folks rolling over, here, where all the facts are splayed out like a seven course meal, and people are walking away!

I don't know the answer. If I did, hell, I'd run for president, now wouldn't I?

People, get your shit together, Ida says it, I say it, hundreds of others are saying it... Democracy itself is at stake. If we don't fight this vote stealing, we will have pukes running this country for the next 100 years, if it lives that long.

[gasperc]

10. pick your poison

I posted on various irregularites I've found in Ohio. There are hundreds of people working behind the scenes to find out if the votes and the count in Ohio were legit.
There is a collusion between the media and the GOP that is undeniable. It is mindboggling that this site as well as many others even have the oppurtunity to exist. But it does demonstrate how the modern cable and network media drives the nation's agenda. At best, we can pin prick at the beast, this site as well as others was able to effectively mitigate the Sinclair group broadcast smearing Kerry.
With the dollar in free fall against the Euro, the rest of the world basically getting fed up with the Bush admins lax policy towards tax cuts, interest rates, borrowing, deficits and host of other issues because of the delusional belief that "growth" will spur revenue that will exceed expectations and erase deficits, well enough said.
Myself and many others are working hard against forces that we knew before election would do anything to win. There is no sense in getting smeared like Dan Rather at CBS or Richard Clarke for telling the truth. We build our case thoughtfully and methodically. At the same time we work hard at reforming the Democratic party. How the elected officials interact with the constituents, how our various coalitions organize and how we get our message to the public through the media.
For Kerry to have not conceded would have led to a circus. pick your poison. Alot is happening and will happen. Just look at the last 24hours and the GOP midnight attempt to sneak in extra powers with the IRS or the multiple bombings throughout Iraq. One can't control the uncontrollable.

And my rant was a bit erratic but heartfelt.

[Walt Starr]

13. Hell, this whole damn nation has operated under an illusion for 2 decades!

That illusion being that there are actually two parties.

[insane_cratic_gal]

17. Hell, this whole damn nation has operated under an illusion for 2 decades!

We hear ya.. and we all feel your fustration. I've written to 3 public officals (something I never do)

signed my name to any petition I could.

I registered to vote for the first time in my life. And went out used that voice to be heard.

I nagged my neighbhors, I watched people's kids so they could go vote too. I lectured my parents who are reps. (who voted for Kerry in NH btw)

Here's an Idea anyone still got their Kerry Edwards Sign? To protest the fraud of the voting system go get it and put it back up! It will be a refusal to acknowledge Bush.. I'll go one step futher and decorate it with christmas lights!!

[shance]

16. Good points. One distinction, Al Gore was betrayed by his own party

conversely John Kerry betrayed his party, and consequently this nation.

Al Gore had little if any support from anyone in Democratic leadership. Publicly I don't remember any leaders fighting for him. Can you imagine if that had been George Bush?

Gore tried to play by the rules and do what was right. Gore not only was ridiculed every step of the way, even more insultingly by many in our own party. It was disgraceful the way he was treated all the way around.

Joe Lieberman was AWOL from the get go. Gore fought against people like James Baker, Bush Sr. and the five of extremist judges on our Supreme court. His family was harassed and had protestors outside the VP mansion yelling at him to get out of "Dick Cheney's house" day and night. He endured unspeakable abuses and harassment and intimidation. Where was the the Democratic leadership (and most Democrats)when this happened. We let him down. We didnt have Gores back.

John Kerry, on the other hand, had an army behind him and he folded in twelve hours. He didnt have our backs.

Again, with all that you mentioned which I both understand and empathize, the comparisons between Gore and Kerry are only that they both won the election, and it ends there. Its important to make the distinctions because we need to support all of us who have tried, and we have our own accountability as well in that regard to the 2000 election.

However, we did an amazing job of unifying and rallying and organizing this time around. This one like, 2000 was ours. John Kerry walked away from it.

[Cheswick2.0]

30. I agree

You're completely right about the Gore Kerry distinctions. Besides the CBC and congress people in florida, the only democrats I saw fight for him in florida were Paul Wellstone and Tom Harkin.

[The Wielding Truth]

55. It may look that way now and maybe I took off my foil hat ,but I believe

John F Kerry could not let us go that easy. I refuse to give up on him. I will not think for a moment that a man who spent his whole life in service to his country could give up now.He still has the backing of many a powerful and wealthy patron who know we are ready to return this country to a truthful and uncorrupted nation .
Integrity.I remember. John,I remember.

[msongs]

18. abandon ship - kerry 1st in one lifeboat women and children last.......

and let em sink or swim.


Msongs
Riverside Ca

[Clarkie1]

20. We lost the popular vote by a few million.

Nothing was stolen.

Please stop the escapism. We didn't win this one.

We can win, but we need to understand why Kerry didn't win. And it isn't because the election was "stolen."

[Clarkie1]

21. Let's start discussing why more people voted for Bush

I think one of the biggest is that Americans have always been very reluctant to change their president in a time of war.

Another is that Kerry had a record. Whereas the election should have been about Bush's record, it became an election about Kerry's record too much.

A third reason is this election was all about national security, and Kerry was unable to convince enough people that he was a decisive leader.

Just my 2 cents.

Again, I think continued harping on how the election was "stolen" is pointless. I have written letters to my senators demanding national standards for voting; it is the #1 issue that should be addressed immediately. However, finding instances of voting irregularities is nothing new, and does nothing to suggest the election was stolen.

What we know: More Americans voted for Bush than Kerry.

Now let's move on and learn from our mistakes.

[okieinpain]

22. actually I do think there is something wrong with the count. I was

looking at some results out of new mexico. and in all of the democratic majority precincts, the total for did not pick for president was over 1 percent. in the repug precincts it was near zero.

I'm trying to find the link to the site that listed that. I will post as soon as I find it. I found the link to the site on here, so maybe someone around here might remember it.

[Virginian]

43. When the undervotes = 0, then we have a major problem.

There are always going to be people who will either decide they don't like either candidate and cast a null vote or they don't quite understand the machine procedure and cast a null vote accidentally.
If the results show there are no null votes (undervotes), then the system is programmed to default to one candidate or the other. In this case, I wonder which one it would be?

Another scenerio could be that every other null vote is defaulted, or every fifth null vote....

My precinct went 58% Kerry. Out of nearly 2700 people voting, 7 did not cast a vote for a presidential candidate. (Touchscreen WinVote)

[okieinpain]

44. I'm trying to find that page with the results. but to me it was really

strange that only in the democratic majority counties that the undervote was above 1 percent. in one county that was heavy dem. something like 6000 voters did not vote at all.

[Virginian]

56. 6000 Undervotes is way too many.

When I say undervotes, I mean the machine registered a ballot with no vote for President.

There is a different problem if the 6000 checked in at the pollbook and never bothered to cast a ballot. That sounds like their votes vaporized or were tossed into the machine's bit bucket.

[4democracy]

24. People do not wait in lines for 8 to 10 hours to vote for more of the same

This is not about some instances of voting irregularities. Thousands of people were not allowed to cast their votes, thousands more votes were lost, long time voters purged from the rolls,then forced to vote provisional ballots but then they didn't have any provisionals because they only had 25 to begin with,I could go on and on and on with evidence of voter suppression, if not fraud.
If and when the election is over and all votes that can be counted are counted, Bush may retain the White House, but if he does it is under false pretenses and has nothing to do with the candidate that ran against him.

[Guava Jelly]

27. actually the machines won it by a few million

nt

[rman]

31. popular vote is irrelevant; 'lost' electoral vote by 130,000

-

[IdaBriggs]

38. Election fraud is NOT "escapism" -- its reality.

Get informed about how a "mandate" was created -- its quite entertaining. Here are a couple of my favorites:

= In Florida, 78,000 absentee ballots incorrectly recorded 94% in favor of a controversial gambling proposal, while the rest of the county averaged only 70% favorable

= In Utah, 33,000 ballots (1 in 5 cast) weren’t counted at all because they were “straight Democratic”

= In Indiana, “straight Democratic” votes were counted as “Libertarian”

= In New York, Democratic votes kept “disappearing” and a recount appears to be overturning an initial Republican win

= In North Carolina, an entire precinct was accidentally “omitted” from the initial tallies – oops!

And HUNDREDS of other similar incidents all over the country. Go to www.votersunite.org to read about them -- all real live documented reports that aren't "escapist" in nature.

In the meantime, if you want to believe in the sanctity of programmers (as in, they are more infallible than doctors or some such other nonsense), that is your business. I did invite people to whine, and the least I can do is offer you some cheese. :)

[KnowerOfLogic]

54. Prove it. If rethugs *could* have stolen it, they would have; and

since they could, more than likely, they did.

[LittleClarkie]

23. I'm getting quite sick of the gloom and doom

This is not armageddon, folks. The more we talk like this, the more we self-defeat.

I disagree with your assessment of Kerry. He still has lawyers on the ground in Ohio, and of the leaders I've heard in the last couple days, he's the one who's still talking of fighting the Bush machine and counting the votes, not to mention health care and election reform. The Clintons, on the other hand, are laying down.

We have no idea what 4 years will bring. We need to stay involved, all of us who came aware this year need to stay that way, watching our government like hawks and making as much noise as possible when we see wrongdoing. We did it with Sinclair, we can do it again if the need is great enough.

Democracy is not dead. Stop that. Watergate didn't happen overnight. Kerry's investigations of Iran/Contra and BCCI didn't happen overnight. If we can't prove enough fraud to overturn the election, we can at least cause enough public outcry for reform of the machines. More of us need to show up en mass at a local level and ask questions of our elected leaders.

I think the Bush's will Watergate themselves before the end of the term. I don't think universal Republican support for Delay can last much longer; they repulsed themselves with this last vote.

And for the last damn time, Kerry didn't need to "Gore" himself to fight. If he would have publicallly made a stink, the circus would have been in town in Ohio. It would have been a bloody mess. What's happening is exactly what needs to be happening. I can't and never will subscribe to your "lifeboat" theory.

Now knock off the defeatist talk and go get well. We are all a blood mess from this season. I know I am. I'm still walking with a limp from blowing out my knee while I was traipsing all over kingdom come the last part of the election. And now I have a cold because I can't seem to sleep or eat properly. This is no good. We need to take care of ourselves, or else who will fight.

Talk care of yourselves, people.

[IdaBriggs]

39. I hate to disillusion you, but...

the Kerry team has been NOWHERE during this effort. We are getting the recount in Ohio because of Cobb and Badnerik (sp?), and contesting Florida is not getting helped by them either; in fact, a couple of Democratic "leaders" in New Hampshire didn't even KNOW there was going to be a recount in Ohio until I told them last Thursday!

I get why the Kerry team gave up (trust me: they gave up). I'm okay with it because the rest of us have stepped up and are taking care of things; my point is this --

If you wait for the Democratic leadership to take care of things, HEADS UP -- THEY WON'T. I am confident, however, they will run to the front of the parade when it becomes obvious that its getting somewhere. Bush hasn't won yet, although he would like to believe it (and you are getting comfortable with the idea, too, even though you don't like it). Let me repeat this: Its Not Over Yet. :)

[LittleClarkie]

51. Trust you -- they gave up

Why trust you when we have news reports that the lawyers are still down there. How is that giving up. If they gave up, the lawyers would NOT be there, correct?

I'm glad it's not over. I hope something weird and wonderful happens. But it's going to have to be accompanied by an outcry from the population at large. They must "get it" too, or we will have quite the civil war on our hands.

[Cadence]

25. I agree with you and I think we need to start with the press.

A free press is a requirement for democracy to succeed and we are missing this fundamental ingredient.

I think we need to push to get a Bill like the Fairness Doctrine reinstated. Reagan deregulated the press in the 80's and I believe this needs to be reversed.

FAIRNESS DOCTRINE

U.S. Broadcasting Policy

"The policy of the United States Federal Communications Commission that became known as the "Fairness Doctrine" is an attempt to ensure that all coverage of controversial issues by a broadcast station be balanced and fair. The FCC took the view, in 1949, that station licensees were "public trustees," and as such had an obligation to afford reasonable opportunity for discussion of contrasting points of view on controversial issues of public importance. The Commission later held that stations were also obligated to actively seek out issues of importance to their community and air programming that addressed those issues. With the deregulation sweep of the Reagan Administration during the 1980s, the Commission dissolved the fairness doctrine.

This doctrine grew out of concern that because of the large number of applications for radio station being submitted and the limited number of frequencies available, broadcasters should make sure they did not use their stations simply as advocates with a singular perspective. Rather, they must allow all points of view. That requirement was to be enforced by FCC mandate"

http://www.museum.tv/archives/etv/F/htmlF/fairnessdoct/fairnessdoct.htm

[LaPera]

26. Must get rid of electronic voting machines (BBV) www.blackboxvoting.org

www.blackboxvoting.org

[merkins]

28. Good Passionate Post Ida Briggs

I empathize totally with the frustration at current events and
the lack of leadership at our party's top eschelon. I can not move
forward on other issues till the voting system is fixed, its all
a moot point otherwise. Apreciate all your good efforts in helping
try to illuminate just what happened on November 2..i guess this
is our line in the sand so to speak and theres no crossing it.
If we can not nail these bastards for whatever reason (media lockdown,
no top Dem leadership, or court manueverings) we just have to get
a honest fair nationwide voting system in place for the 2006. Or like
you say ITS OVER!

[Cheswick2.0]

29. the benefits of being independent

you get to scream "you people" and pretend you aren't part of the scum or the ineffectual.

Great job on the BBV stuff. Keep up the good work and many many of us are doing what we can too.

[IdaBriggs]

40. Completely correct. Identifying myself with either party....

isn't something I am willing to do. I support Kerry 100%, but at one point I seriously asked my local Democrats if they were actively TRYING to lose. The question came up around 9/11, when I asked what the Dems were doing to commemorate it; they told me "nothing" since they didn't want to "politicize" it. In the meantime, the Bush team celebrated the day and went up in the polls (because HELLO! no Democrats were willing to say IT HAPPENED ON BUSH'S WATCH!!!). Stupidity at that level was PAINFUL to watch. Sigh....

Perhaps if one of the parties starts acting in a manner I wish to associate myself with, then I'll join. Until then, I'll pick between the "best" each of them has to offer, and since I think each party has some "good" people in it, it also helps me not to demonize either side. It works for me. :)

[WI_DEM]

32. Gore didn't roll over!!! Dammit, he fought it all the way to the USSC

He fought it for 36 fucking days!! I'm tired of people saying that Gore rolled over. Once the highest court ruled he didn't have ANY real recourse. Kerry rolled. He said "You have my back" but the day after the election he conceded. Gore didn't. That's the difference.

[fujiyama]

36. Agreed

I don't know what he could have done beyond the Supreme Court.

As several said after, we dare not call what the SC did treason. That election was clearly stolen, while this one may have been. It's harder to say.

Either way, the behavior of our senators has been shameful. They have rolled over way too many times. The scene during F 9/11 where not one senator was willing to side with the CBC showed it all. I remember watching it live and I felt just as angry watching it in the movie.

[Marxdem]

33. Whats the current vote tally in Ohio?

[Stephanie]

34. Anxiously awaiting the update, Ida.

There's been a shortage of news on this here. Everyone's too busy to post. Please fill us in. Thanks so much!

xx
S

[StopThief]

35. Will the election be over. . . .

after the Electoral College votes, or will it be after the inauguration? Will either of these events allow people to move on?

Fraud should obviously be investigated in order to keep it from happening again, but it is just cruel to make people believe that Bush is not going to be inaugurated for the second and final time on January 20th.

[zulchzulu]

37. You can't count air and call it a vote

All through the nearly two years I did grassroots work for Kerry, I always told people that Kerry would have to win by over 6% of the popular vote to fend off the 30% of the vote being done by electronic voting machines.

Kerry conceded (not a legally binding move) and has gone under radar to find out what happened to the votes. That's basically what he said the other day and the video is available on the web site.

Essentially, you can't count air. Many of the votes cast were done without any paper reciept, any paper trail and are thus untraceable and uncountable.

Should Kerry say that he won the election and demand a recount on votes that can't be recounted? That sure would be a nice story to have on TV. And it would ruin Kerry's career as a Senator. Is that what you want?

To say Kerry rolled over too soon is a convenient but misinformed accusation. The movie isn't over yet.

[IdaBriggs]

42. Believe it or not, there is ALWAYS a paper trail.

In the case of the "touch screens" its called "poll tapes", while the optical scan equipment that seems to be responsible for most of the problems has a paper ballot that can be recounted. Vigilance on the part of the voter is required (and thousands of problems were reported, so the voters did their jobs). If you wish to believe Kerry has gone "under the radar" to help solve the problem, that is your choice. I'm telling you flat out he and his money have been NOWHERE TO BE FOUND while an incredible grassroots effort has risen up to insure the integrity of the election process.

I don't give a rat's ass about his Senate career. If he doesn't stand up and fight now, he's not going to get elected in the future. Frankly, I've already explained why it doesn't matter who gets put up in an election, because Joseph Stalin was right:

"It not who votes that counts; its who counts the votes." :)

[proudbluestater]

47. Great Post and Update Ida

I fully agree with you. If we were robbed twice, what is the sense of bothering with another election. As you said, there will be no grassroots participation the next time -- none. Why bother? Why give your money and knock yourself out when it can be stolen easily and the Democrats roll over and say, "yeah, go ahead and screw me again."

The time for being a gentlemanly senator is over. Kerry is said to be contemplating another run in 2008. I guess he doesn't GET IT. If the fraud is allowed to stand without protest by the DNC and John Kerry, I personally will not even vote Democratic the next time. I will vote for a third-party candidate like Nader or Cobb who CARE about my vote.

[GoSolar]

41. Thanks, Ida.

Kerry won!

[lthuedk]

45. We have one chance-not in 2006 or 2008, but right now.

Remove Bush or lose America. Now. Nothing could be simpler.

[Dancing_Dave]

46. I agree--send your message up to Kerry!

Unless Kerry and the Democrats fight this election fraud right now they will never get enough support to win again.

People just won't waste their time and money on a party that lets the other side steal all the important elections without contesting the result.

[American Tragedy]

49. Very well stated Ida!

Our crisis is indeed twofold: The Republicans are corrupt, and the Democrats are ineffectual. I didn't support Dean in the primaries for pragmatic reasons, but he did have a good point.

Why does our leadership seem so naive and weak? Not to brag, but sometimes I wish I and other DUers were working at the DNC or the Kerry campaign, cause I'd like to whup some ass and stick it to these bastards. Especially now.

Welcome to the battle. Thank you for fighting for the recounts, too. Better hurry and get it done before inauguration day though.

[Vidar]

50. Very well said, agree completely. Thank you Ida

[UpsideDownFlag]

52. been listening to Malloy? nt

[KnowerOfLogic]

53. Right on. If we couldn't beat Bush, it's all over. if people let this

stand, democracy in america is truly dead. Personally, I favor blue state secession. Let the Reds have their militaristic, fascist, theocray.