The unions f***ed us

[JPJones]

In Ohio, margin of Bush's victory was 136,483.

In Ohio, 372,759 union members voted for Bush. Forty percent of union members in Ohio voted for Bush.

AFL-CIO and SEIU, etc. donated millions to ACT and forgot to get their own chickens in order.

I guess a clump of cells is more important than feeding your family.

Chickens
Voting
For
Col.
Sanders

[AllyCat]

1. Teamsters would try to drum up support

for anti-Bush rallies at work. I was MANAGEMENT and would be the only one to show up! Couldn't believe how many of them said outloud at work that they were voting for Bush.

Morans.

[NVMojo]

20. I saw union member gold miners in Nevada line up to support

Bush while their unions were supporting Kerry. No matter what, the employees know who butters their bread and they were told that if Kerry won, the employers, filty rich foreign gold companies, would be charged huge royalty fees to pull gold out on public lands ...and they'd have to leave and the union miners and non-union miners would lose their jobs. Only Bush and Cheney could keep them in their jobs. Forget the fact that they are mining a non-renewable natural resource so their jobs are permanent anyways....so don't necessarily blame it on the unions....

[arewenotdemo]

44. Are the Teamsters a real union?

Haven't they been in puke bed for decades? Thinking Nixon, Hoffa.

Real unions don't go puke.

[Fescue4u]

2. GUNS

I the #1 one reason why Union members vote Republican.

Kerrys vote on the AWB was proably a bad idea.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

27. You are so right!

A lot of those union workers are in small town machine shops and factories. They're hunters and gun owners, and most of them are NRA members, subject to relentless propaganda. The AWB was a bad idea from day one and should be dropped like a hot potato -- there are other ways to control crime without pissing off these voters.

[UNIXcock]

41. I know more than a few one-issue, democrat gun-owners that voted *

... until we abandon this ludicrous issue from our platform, we're doomed to fail to whatever party "appears" pro-gun rights.

[American Tragedy]

48. This is one of the easiest issues for the Dem party to neutralize

Obviously, we should continue to actively support reasonable gun control, like background checks before purchasing firearms and not selling to violent criminals. I think most reasonable people believe that is right, even weapons enthusiasts.

But we need to ditch our reputation of being the party against the Second Amendment, and abandon symbolic, ultimately superficial anti-gun legislation. Like almost all of these wedge issues, we should relegate it to a matter of the individual states' discretion and stop constantly thrashing it out on the national stage like the Repugs desperately want us to do.

Presentation is everything, too. Wes Clark once said that if you want to play with massive assault weapons, join the army cause we've got plenty of them. Pragmatic statements like that are more effective than Kerry's direct attacks upon the NRA. Just my opinion. I firmly believe that most Democrats do not in fact want to "take our guns away", and it is definitely possible to eradicate this impression of us.

[senseandsensibility]

3. From my avatar and my message I think

you can see where my sentiments lie. But no, I have no sympathies for union members who vote for *. Absolutely none.

[blackangrydem]

4. How could they have better

"got their own chickens in order?"

You can lead a horse to water...

[UpsideDownFlag]

5. of all the things to blame it on....blaming the unions is the WORST

single worst thing i've heard yet. next to african americans, they're probably the most reliable democrat voters there are. I'd much prefer to blame, oh let's say...DIEBOLD. and maybe the frigging SECRETARY OF STATE for Ohio, who was also the Bush campaign's man.

[madrchsod]

10. do you remember the reagan democrats?

most were union guys who thought ronny was going to save their union jobs buy making sure there wouldn`t be anymore coloreds getting quotas. yes ,i`ll blame the union members-i`ve been a proud member of the iam and the steelworkers union-a shit load of my fellow brothers and sisters bought the republican bullshit and they all paid for it..i guess they forgot all those who died so they could have their great benefits.now they don`t have shit-they got what they deserved...

[CityDem]

23. We have a problem

Sounds like a disconnect between the leadership and the members.

[BlueEyedSon]

6. More like they f*&ked themselves!

[grease_monkey]

7. maybe they did not feel the Democratic party is democratic enough

Maybe they figured Kerry and Bush were pretty much identical on economic issues like trade, unions, social safety net. So they figured, if all we have to chose between them is social issues like abortion, affirmative action, and gay rights, then they should go with the one they felt most at home with on social issues.

Ya know, it was the Democrats who took economic issues off the table.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap.

[newyawker99]

34. Hi grease_monkey!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[BeatleBoot]

8. Union Folks Start Making Decent Money

And they start voting like Republicans.

It will correct itself, though.

And there is going to be a lot of Economic hurt to go around....

[JPJones]

9. Yep, you forget the blood that was shed for your union card. n/t

[gorbal]

11. Fourty Percent for Bush

That means 60 percent went for Kerry and or "other"....I'm proud of my union guys then.

[senseandsensibility]

12. The history of unions in America

isn't taught in school. The average American has no idea what occurred, or how many people have died in the cause. I think the unions need to educate their members. No one else is going to do it.

[evilqueen]

14. hmmm...

Perhaps local union reps could put together some teaching materials for their local schools... social studies teachers?

[Forkboy]

13. Still love the unions!!!!

Why not praise the 60% that voted Kerry?

[Bridget Burke]

28. Because saying "Fuck the Unions" sows more discord.

It's part of the plan....

[UpsideDownFlag]

51. exactly. nt

[Davis_X_Machina]

15. What was Kerry's OH margin among all whites? n/t

[noamnety]

16. Doesn't Ohio have secret ballots?

372,759 union members voted for Bush.

What's the source of that number?

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

17. I refuse

REFUSE to blame this on the unions, PERIOD.

[UpsideDownFlag]

38. that's the position i took too, higher up in the thread.

unions have gotta be one of the most loyal voting blocs we've ever had. of ALL the things that coulda 'fucked us'...bad choice.

[Bigmack]

18. Union members voted for Bush...

..for the same reason gays voted for Bush, blacks and Hispanics voted for Bush, and poor and middle class people voted for Bush. Stupidity.

You can be black and stupid, or gay and stupid, too, you know.

Question is... will they ever wise up? If unions keep losing jobs, maybe the members will catch on.

Probably not... ignorance can be educated, but stupidity abides.

[driver8]

36. IATSE member here

I am a union member, and could not believe how many people I work with supported Dubya. Their big thing was, "Kerry is going to raise our taxes!" My response, "Why do you guys think you are making the money you are making now? Because of the union. You guys are fucking yourselves!"

We have a bunch of young guys (early twenties) just out of college that think they know everything. They were all voting for Bush. I told them, "Bush is not a friend to the unions...he would take away wages, health care, everything if he could." They didn't care. They all thought Bush was tough and Kerry was "a pussy." I told them, "Thank God you guys live in California so your fucked up vote didn't hurt us too much."

I have a friend who writes for the Tonight Show who is very, very liberal and is very supportive of all democrats running for office. He told me that once the guys on the show start making a little money, they all "become Republicans...so afraid of losing money to taxes."

How soon they all forget how they got where they are...if it wasn't for the Writer's Guild, these guys wouldn't be making one tenth of what they are making now.

[pauliedangerously]

19. NO, NOT the Unions...

CWA, Local 7200 here. Our local spent a great deal of time distributing literature, making phone calls, etc.

Unfortunately, a lot of our efforts are drowned out by talk radio. Don't blame the unions...don't blame the rank and file either. It's the big corporations and big corporate media pitting everyone against each other....dividing and conquering.


"...forgot to get their own chickens in order."

WRONG!!!!

I do agree with the chicken analogy at the end, though.

[PatGund]

52. I know

My ex-fiance, (and best friend) is CWA, and she was disgusted that anyone in the union could vote for Bush.

Mind you, she's also a devout Christian, and can't understand why anyone claiming to be a Christian would vote for Bush either.

[UpsideDownFlag]

53. blaming the unions....worst. excuse. yet. nt

[DrGonzoLives]

21. Excuse me?

The unions fucked us? Yeah, it's all their fault. Sure. I guess those UNION people who were out knocking on doors, manning phones, and watching the polls here in Indiana were fucking us over, eh?

Once again, we see Purity Control here at DU castigating one of our strongest supporters. Brilliant!

[proudbluestater]

22. Hello? Michigan? Unions? Ring a bell?

We are proudly blue here and let me tell you, from what I observed, union members worked their BUTTS off for Kerry. The local GOTV was based in a union hall, for heaven't sakes. Every time Bush came to town, it was the union people (and me), who stood there holding Kerry signs and anti-Bush signs.

If you're looking for a scapegoat other than the Fascists who stole the election, look elsewhere.

[Yupster]

24. And don't forget the 527's

The group "Americans Coming Together" alone registered 85,000 Democratic Party voters in Ohio. The organization was funded mostly by union donations.

[LittleClarkie]

25. Right ON! Our GOTV was based out of the union hall too

They were instrumental in helping us organize. The uber phone bank, wonderous predictive system of the gods, was based in the union hall, as was a separate motor home parked in their lot. The gave alot of time, and space and passion to the campaign here. And as I drive around now, one of the places where the Kerry signs have NOT come down is the union hall. They still have signs that say, "We need decent paying jobs, Pres. Bush."

Of all the things to blame, blaming the unions is shooting yourself in the foot. You are shooting part of the grassroots organizing machine.

[comsymp]

31. Agreed - MI UAW members worked hard!

My ex-SIL is a UAW organizer at a Ford plant in MI, and I know for a fact that she and others worked their asses off for Kerry.

Wonder why it is that so many here are so quick to point fingers at our own? Not a "disruptor" accusation at the OP - just a general observation, after countless recent "blame x" threads. Identifying, then correcting problems/weak spots is one thing; shouting "traitor" is another.

[union_maid]

26. The first Kerry bumper stickers I saw here

were union ones, and judging by the cars they were on, they weren't management owned cars. However, in order to get more of the union vote, the Democrats are going to have to translate their very populist message into one that's more easily identified as being what it is....populist. That's the key to winning and that's what the DNC should be working on for. It's one reason why Howard Dean should be considered for the head or at least listened to.

[Cheswick2.0]

29. SEIU voters were not the problem

they tend to be one of the most progressive union memberships going. They voted Kerry and if they didn't they vote socialist. They certainly did not vote bush.

It is more like the police fire and teachers union members who voted for Bush.

However without the union movement, Kerry would have lost a much larger margin.

[high density]

30. My parents are in SEIU...

...though they are not in Ohio. SEIU spent megabucks on phone calls and mailings for Kerry. They even had a few mailings customized for the local Democratic candidates as well.

You DO NOT want to blame this on the unions.

[Krupskaya]

32. If you want rank-and-filers to vote the way the leadership recommends...

...then you sure as hell better have a candidate that appeals to the rank-and-filers. The issue is guns, not abortion, so the Democrats have got to get their shit together about that.

To blame this on the unions is to alienate them once and for all. You don't want that.

I have to say, though, the carpenters don't do themselves any favors with a criminal for a president (McCarron) who's best friends with the criminal president.

[Lerkfish]

33. they cant FORCE members to vote a certain way.. on that road lies

freeper nirvana. Being able to force people to vote THEIR way.

I don't understand union members not voting for Kerry, I think they're hurting themselves and the rest of us, but this is still america, where people are allowed to vote as they wish....unfortunately, this is also Bush's america, where their votes can be thrown into a diebold blender.

[JeffInRick]

35. NAFTA?

Is NAFTA still an issue with union members?
Kerry voted for it and Clinton signed it.
Could be a few members resent voting for "centrists" and getting the short stinky end of the stick.
I agree that guns might have been an issue too.

[rman]

37. unions were f**ed by republicans decades ago

which is why unions now have very little influence.

don't you know that in the context of Globalization unions are considered to be a "trade barrier" that has to be taken down, much like environmental regulations.

it seems that these days unions are refinding some of their labor roots, so it is expected that repubs will try and paint unions in a negative light once more.

[Nederland]

39. Our attitude F***ed us

So long as Democrats believe that the only thing that matters to people is money, they will lose.

[doc03]

40. Democrat=NAFTA/gays/gun control/anti God

[NewYorkerfromMass]

42. Link?

I see a lot of steamed up posts here but... where's the proof?

[tjdee]

43. Finally unions get the bunk the rest of us have gotten!

Awesome!

Now that we're blaming the unions, maybe we can move past talking about which of the Dem party's base screwed up everything for us?

I think we've got everyone now, right? The gays, the minorities, the pro-choicers...

[LittleClarkie]

45. Women, Catholics, the youth vote

Let's see. Southerners... then again no, lost them a while back. Ah, I've got it! Seniors. Have we blamed the seniors yet for not hobbling out and voting? Damn seniors!

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Revolucionario83]

47. I come from a union family

Hearing about all these union members in Ohio voting for Bush makes me sick. As far as I'm concerned 40% is waaay to freakin much!!! I guess forget the fact that Bush is fucking middle and working class people over!! Hey as long as those sodomites don't get married everything will be fine!!!! RIGHT????? :eyes:

[CANDO]

49. Central Pennsylvania Teamsters ......

for the most part are a lost cause. God, Guns, and Gays. I had numerous discussions/arguments with many fellow Teamsters and they are mostly lost forever. Some of these guys have had their dues reduced to the minimum because they don't want their dues money going to Democrats.

[rndmprsn]

50. if you want to live like a republican then vote democrat

enough said