has the indoctrination begun here??

[pres2032]

It seems to me, and maybe I'm wrong, that a lot of us here are waiting for Bush to come out and say he's a dictator and he's revoking our freedoms. The thing is, I don't recall ever hearing of Stalin, Hitler, Mao, or anyother dictator coming out and saying that's what they were. That being said, we know that Bush is showing dictatorial tendencies, but I fear that many of us won't do a thing unless he actually says so. I really think that Bush is a genius in misdirecting and has been successful even here. I think it's time we wake up and finally take notice to what's going on.
There are widespread cases of vote fraud all over the country, there's that billboard in Florida and other places, I've seen similiar billboards in PA, there's Gitmo, and there's Bush and the repubs saying 'sure we'll work with the dems, but they have to come to our side and see our points."
Let's wake up!!! We have a dictatorship here!!!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Ok ok, two things

things are HAPPENING, I know you may not see it since the MSM does not have it in the evening news

I am sure you heard of tanks in LA, or people rushing the State House in Columbus? You didn't, try Indymedia.

Secondly... have you joined us in the boycott of the economy?

Here is what I want you to do.

Don't SHOP at any large chain store... go to local stores

Buy from local merchants

GET OUT OF DEBT... hell cancell your major credit cards MBNA tied et al... my citi will be cancelled as soon as it is fully paid out.

Live well within your means, the economy relies ON YOUR DEBT to keep fuinctioning (70% of our GNP is our debt)

Buy either two year old sub compacts or a hybrid, do not buy an SUV, unless it is the Ford Escape.

Find local businesses that share your believes and shop from them.

Oh and do engage in CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE all the time... quite frankly you do not need me to tell you, I am just directing you on where to go... or what to do.

;-)

[LJA]

2. The Divided States of America

The Divided States of America

America today is divided more now than at any time since the civil war. On one side you have the Repundamentalists. Those who would take away your freedoms and dictate to you how you should live your life (according to their religious beliefs and economic agenda). On the other side you have Demequalogists. Those who wish to let everyone live according to their own beliefs, in fairness and equality.
The Repundamentalists seem to have an agenda of:
The stymying of science, the exploitation of the environment for economic gain, stealing women’s right to a safe abortion, discrimination against gay people, militant forcing of democracy upon other sovereign nations, the mixing of church and state, the removal of basic rights guaranteed us by the constitution, economic gain by the richest, the subversion of the democratic process, and other sundry “ideals”.
The Demequalogists seem to have an agenda of:
The growth of science in all of its myriad forms for the betterment of humanity, the distribution of wealth in a more fair and balanced fashion, fiscal responsibility, insuring health care for everyone, the protection and healing of the environment, the continued guarantee of all constitutional rights, the continued separation of all religion and state, letting all sovereign nations determine their own future except in extreme cases of genocide, the equality of rights between all peoples (regardless of race, religion, or sexual orientation), education, and much more.
Not surprisingly, the Repundamentalists are driven by the corrupt rich, big corporate, the Christian fundamentalists, fanatical nationalists, and the most misguided of the working class. They desire to build/destroy the world according to their agenda listed above. The Demequalogists seem to have a constituency comprised of the environmentalists, scientists, intellectuals, unions, teachers, alternative religions, liberals, gays, democratic and freedom loving, disenfranchised, hippies, liberals, women’s rights, non-conformists, economically disadvantaged (that don’t fall into the demographic of the first side) and many more factions too numerous to name.
Unfortunately, the Reps are much better at keeping the Dems divided than the vice versa. The Reps are united in their goal to take over America and the world. The Dems are divided, with each group wanting to be the one that drives the agenda. Rather than focusing on defeating the Reps, they focus instead on getting their own little message out. What good does it do if you only focus on your issue, but don’t care about gays, or civil rights, science or education. Everyone’s issues who comprise the Dems is equally important. We are all being disenfranchised. Collectively, we must unite and defeat the Repundamentals.
The only way to defeat the Reps is with the dissemination of the facts into all facets of American life. It will be hard to do since they have purchased and taken over the most effective form of communication and propaganda, the national news and TV. With the use of think tanks comprising each of our myriad of groups, we must find out how to best unite our constituency and also the best methods to be get the facts out to those who don’t know or realize what the agenda of the two sides really is. Sharing our techniques of what works to help sway those of the other side, we can find out the most effective ways of presenting information, to take away from the Repundamentalist their under-educated working class and misguided nationalists. If the Reps had primarily just the corrupt rich, and the fundamentalist religious zealots, they wouldn’t have enough to ever make a majority.
Uniting, networking, sharing our successes, brainstorming and think tanking, learning how to win the battles so we can win the war, figuring out how to infiltrate the facts into the consciousness of the uninformed of all demographics, and planning how to defeat the other side like you would in an actual civil war, but without the violence. This is the most important war of our lifetimes, with repercussions to be felt for generations. We must become the leaders, generals, and armies necessary to disarm the other side. Only with facts, information and truth can we ultimately win. We will either live in truth and freedom, or die in ignorance and bondage. Divided we have fallen. United, we must make a stand.


Liberty and Justice for All

[newyawker99]

13. Hi LJA!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[hippiechick]

3. Did you post this just to start a flame war ?

Get out the asbestos, cause the militants are on their way ...


:hippie:

[JaneDoughnut]

4. Just 4 more years

I don't think the majority will recognize that we're becoming a one-party state unless Bush refuses to step down after his second term. Which I don't see happening. We'll have a new face but the same old leadership. A dictatorship in disguise.

[MatrixEscape]

5. Yes ... all they have to do is

study it and then spin and work it right. As e have seen, a large proportion of ill-informed Americans will go for whatever they are told to approve of.

[kvining]

6. Its new

I think a lot of people are missing what is really going on. What we are really seeing is a new kind of fascism, one closer to Mussolini's "Corporate State" ideology than Hitler's. Why have a "Ministry of Propaganda" when you can build one out of a few corporations - Fox News, Clear Channel, etc. It is the key piece. Wars fought for corporations, another Italian fascist ideal, are covered up by the propaganda machine or are redefined as "patriotic". Enemies of the Party are destroyed by massive, prior-planned character assasination ala "Swift Boats". The purpose of this is not to keep a particular man in power, it is to make corporate power the pre-eminent power in the land. Whoever is President doesn't matter, as long as he is "on the team" with these guys. I also don't think these guys see their goals as complete, and have designed this machine to function in and out of power.

There is a common theme thru all these threads, and we are seeing so many trees, we are blind to the big picture that is emerging. We have Tom Delay, who has created a shadowy organization that is above the law, whose purpose is to distribute enormous amounts of corporate cash to candidates for election, to the point only corporate-approved and corporate sponsered candidates can run for office. We have a media corporate empire that has moved from merely being editorially biased to being the equivalent of Pravda - government controlled mass media, that surppresses and spins news in the governments favor, while providing propaganda in the guise of "entertainment", we have wars being waged for corporations, and we have the complete restructuring of the tax codes to divert the wealth of the middle class to these same corporations. In addition we have the rise of an uber-patriot State Religion, which our President is the de facto leader of, and which does his bidding. In other words, we are taking on the characteristics and trappings of a militaristic totalitarian state, while maintaining a mass-media induced illusion of "democracy" - a New Matrix if you will. Perhaps one should think about these items:

“ON THE CORPORATE STATE: Resolution drafted by the Head of the Italian Government and read by him on November 13th 1933, before the Assembly of the National Council of Corporations, on the eve of his important speech:

‘The National council of Corporations: ‘defines Corporations as the instrument which, under the aegis of the State, carries out the complete organic and totalitarian regulation of production with a view to the expansion of the wealth, political power and well-being of the Italian people;.”

ot this:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

snippet:
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

or these photos:







http://www.nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm


So the ultimate question becomes, how can we, as democrats who love this country, defeat this combined media - religion propaganda machine? We have got to start realizing that the role propaganda played in older totalitarian states has now arrived here - in a slick and modernized form.

This also fits in with what I believe is an exposed conspircy if only our leaders would notice it - the tax return scandal currently going on in Congress where it was discovered that hidden in a thousand page bill was a resolution granting two Republican Senators the right to view anyones tax return. Today its turns out the resolution was originally inserted by well known religious fascist Cong. Ishtook of Oklahoma - a guy who has only one issue, abortion. I believe there is currently a plan going into works to do Swift Boat smears against abortion providers and leaders of the pro-choice movement, to coincide with the appointment of religious fascists to the Supreme Court, and I believe these three fascist criminals were going to funnel tax returns to the Scaife-Drudge media machine, ala Swift Boat attack, and they got caught. Where are our leaders on this? We are getting a small glimpse of the coming massive attack on abortion rights in this country. We as a Party are being destroyed by a machine we are not fighting and don't even recognize.

[welshTerrier2]

8. one of the best posts I've read on DU in a long time ...

great post, kvining ... you have your finger on the pulse ... THE ISSUE for me is: corporate power versus Joe Citizen ...

too much time is wasted on DU squawking about this candidate or that one, lefties versus moderates, what limbaugh said, etc ... it is a total fucking waste of time ...

i would really like you to comment on a thread I posted earlier this afternoon about what democrats need to do to start winning ... you can read the thread right here ...

the essence of the thread is that democrats need a central theme as a message to which all more detailed policy positions are tied ... and what is THE CENTRAL THEME? it's that we have lost our democracy to corporate interests ... it's that the all federal policy caters to the super-wealthy and their corporations at the expense of the common man ... all other issues are irrelevant because without power, we cannot achieve our agenda ... and we have no power anymore ... our government is bought and paid for ... our only hope is to educate the masses to this reality ...

what's most disturbing about the issues you raised is that it is not only clear that democrats are not engaged in fighting this battle, they could even be a party to the abuses ... this realization, if true, could explain the differences in perspective that a DU Green and I highlighted in a discussion we had some time ago ... I argued that I saw the democrat-Green divide as differences of degree along a spectrum; he argued that it was a quantum leap ... at the time, i just couldn't see his perspective ... that would not be true, however, if I ever came to view the democratic party as the purveyor (i.e. appeaser) of a somewhat more lenient corporate state ... if we're being sold down the river, then we're being sold down the river ... there's just no room for gray on the issue ...

anyway, take a read on my proposed solutions to some of this if you're so inclined ... thanks for the post ... it really was excellent !!

[kvining]

9. Found a kindred soul

I read your other thread as well, we are on the same page. So much of what I see here are just exercises in letting off steam. There are too many unfocused threads - and nothing of real substance actually happening. What are we going to do to fight this coporate propaganda machine? How can we use this website to do it? Your link gave some excellant ideas, and we need less threads that are more focused towards achieving aims instead of just bitching. I would like to see a concerted email and advertiser-boycott assault on Drudge and Michael Savage for starters. We could use a website like this to coordinate it and exchange information on how we are succeeding or failing. Is such a thing possible here?

[MelissaB]

7. From research today...RFK jr may be our friend!! He is a "believer."

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/signs20041108.htm

Interview with Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.


Q: Is nothing left of it?
K: All that is gone. And just because of the monumental arrogance and incompetence of this one president. The USA is the most hated nation of the world. 5.5 billion people around the world fear and despise us. That's for me the most bitter pill of the Bush presidency. And Americans have no idea about it, how much they are hated around the world. They just won't get informed.

Q: The free American press withholds such information?
K: The media today are the result of a thirty year old strategy of the American right. In the seventies an unholy alliance was built between the environment destroying industries and the right-wing ideologists. First they created right-wing think-tanks in the shadow of the capitol. Then they overtook the media.

Q: Mr. Kennedy - You exaggerate!
K: You think? I tell you: Right-wing, almost right-wing extremists are controlling all 5000 US TV-stations, the 15,000 radio stations and 80% of our print media. The free press, invented in the USA, is now controlled by a Christian taliban. By right-wing extremist, fundamentalist heretics!

Q: Do you know that the people all over the world see CNN?
K: And do you know that 72% of the Bush-voters still believe that it was Iraq that was behind 9/11? This is the kind of information that will always be distributed by, for example, Fox news. Owned by Rupert Murdoch, this broadcaster distributes such news into US broadcasts. With only the "Los Angeles Times" on the West-coast and the "New York Times" on the East-coast, you can't hold against it. It's just impossible.

Q: And what are the consequences of this situation?
K: You know, I'm at the point of hating radio in the US. In the United States of America today it is like the twenties of the past century in Germany, Italy or Spain. A true brown-shirt attitude takes over. Whoever criticises the government will be branded as unpatriotic. But without a free and critical press the survival of our democracy is very difficult to imagine.

Q: Now you've gone to far!
K: Also in Europe there were the right-wing industrialists who made a pact with fanatical fascists, which until then just existed on the edge of civil society. But with the money of industries... Don't forget - also Hitler was elected democratically - from the people of the most educated nation of the world. And as with Hitler, so also Franco and Mussolini. In the USA we see today a similar pattern. This is pretty scary for those who believe in progress and democracy.

Q: That's strong tobacco - The USA like the pre-nazi Germany!
K: Look at the composition of the cabinet of the Bush government. There are three times more CEOs as in any other previous American government. And they will continue in the levels below of this administration. Everywhere are sitting the lobbyists of the most greedy and destructive industries in the political top-positions.

[seabeyond]

10. positioned ot take the pharmecies, mental tests for the people

and legally drugging them. test on poor kids with poisons.

ya..........well i dont think this is the site that is drinking the koolaide though

[seabeyond]

11. hey, i stopped talking to certain people in community

of what i am seeing going on. i know the ones that are going to self righteously turn in their neighbor. told kids to keep mouth shut from here on out

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

12. Yes, and he'll declare martial law and cancel the elections!!!

Oh wait...Nevermind.