what are the recounts going to accomplish?

[Doctor_J]

Sorry, don't get it :shrug:

[VivaKerry]

1. all ballots to be counted...

provisionals, absentee, etc. Granted, are some counties paperless in Ohio? Not sure.

At any rate, you do know that they awarded the election to bush when there were millions of votes uncounted.....

[Doctor_J]

2. On the off-chance that they're actually on the up-and-up,

Kerry will be shown to be the winner. Then what? I mean, I was 99% sure on Nov 3 that we'd been jobbed again. An honest recount will confirm that. And then.... what? Or let's say the recount "confirms" Smirk's "win". What effect will that have on anything? Excet that, in this case, the MSM will probably report the results.

[VivaKerry]

3. A couple of things:

1. We will unearth the 'problems' to hopefully guard against them in the future (doesn't help us now, for sure).

2. If the problems are so egregious, we are talking major protest until the vote is re-done OR.... well, I can't say on the internet. But basically, the PEOPLE have to stand up to fraudulent elections.

3. Every vote needs to be counted, regardless of the results. As it stands now, every vote has not been counted. that means, democracy is dead.

A recount is imperative even if smirk is confirmed.

[Eloriel]

4. Several things -- all of them extremely important

1. They could expose fraud.

2. They could expose the unreliability of the voting machines (which numerous computer scientists and voting machine activists have been harping on for years now).

3. They could overturn the election. I'm not hopeful about that and it's certainly not my primary interest, but some people are keen on it.

4. They could shine enough light on the massive vote suppression that took place in OH and other places that we get some needed legislative changes. (I personally favor a Right to Vote Constitutional Amendment, so that vote suppression becomes a denial of one's Constitutional rights.)

5. They could help delegitimize Bush's "win," which could help make him a much less, um, "effective" chief executive.

6. They could shine enough light on the glitches and problems and "programming errors" and other unbelievable problems with the computerized voting machines that we finally get Voter Verified Paper Ballots so that we can do meaningful recounts wherever these confarned computerized machines are in use, and perhaps even other needed reform.

7. We could help awaken more people to the problems we have with our voting systems. MOST Americans believe in fairness and fair processes -- that's a far cry from what we have now with both vote suppression and voting machines. If more people wake up to the facts, more will get active and eventually, our "leaders" will follow where We The People lead.

And probably more things I'm not thinking of off the top of my head.

[pnorman]

5. Recounts, as well as close scrutiny of the "un-recountable" ballots

will give us an idea of what we're up against. Election 2000 showed us that, in the words of US Supreme Court Justice Stevens. "Although we may never know with complete certainty the identity of the winner of this year's presidential election, the identity of the loser is perfectly clear. It is the nation's confidence in the judge as an impartial guardian of the rule of law."

Karl Rove may have shown us that collateral damage of Election 2004, was the nation's confidence in the ballot box. We NEED to know that, as well as all the details. Remember: we're NOT a tiny minority; we're on the side of roughly HALF of the voters. The Jan. 20 Coronation wil go on as planned, but those CREEPS won't sleep all that well for the next 4 years. It didn't require a "consensus" to out Watergate, My Lai, Pentagon Papes, Iran-Contragate, or the rest; all it took was honesty and COURAGE. If we have nothing else, we have that.

pnorman

[Doctor_J]

7. arrrrrgh

Re: Justice Stevens

I don't think anyone's faith in the constitution, or the rule of law, was assuaged by this year's travesty. I agreed with Mark Crispin Miller's assessment, that Rove would be emboldened by the heist in 2000, and pull off an even bigger one this year. And I wasn't diappointed. They're fascists, they don't believe in democracy.

"They won't sleep for 4 years".

* has slept soundly 10 hours per night for the last four years, and will do the same this time. If these people had consciences, they wouldn't have stolen the election in 2000. If they have any trouble getting to sleep, they can just flip on hate radio or cable "news" and hear the company line upchucked just as if it were the truth.

We are roughly 1/2 of the voters, who are represented by roughly .1% of the mainstream media. Until that problem is fixed, I think we're just tilting at windmills.

[pnorman]

12. The number of potential whistleblowers

could run to the tens of thousands. We don't have the (relatively) independent press/media we had during Watergate, My Lai, and the others; it's almost totally "embedded". But I'm hoping that at least a few of those tens of those thousands of potential whistleblowers will find an honest and courageous journalist. It doesn't have to be a newspaper or TV station; it could be DU or something like it. I'm NOT giving up hope, and I WILL keep agitating.

[VivaKerry]

6. Check this out

93,136 EXTRA Votes Found In ONE Ohio County
(Bush won the entire state, and thus the presidency, by 130,000)

From Teed Rockwell
Philosophy Department
Sonoma State University
11-19-4


You may have seen the associated press story about the precinct in
Cuyahoga
county that had less than 1,000 voters, and gave Bush almost 4,000
extra
votes.

But that turns out to be only the tip of a very ugly iceberg. The
evidence
discovered by some remarkably careful sleuthing would convince any
reasonable court to invalidate the entire Ohio election.

In last Tuesday's election, 29 precincts in Cuyahoga County, Ohio,
reported
votes cast IN EXCESS of the number of registered voters - at least
93,136
extra votes total. And the numbers are right there on the official
Cuyahoga
County Board of Elections website:

Bay Village - 13,710 registered voters / 18,663 ballots cast
Beachwood - 9,943 registered voters / 13,939 ballots cast
Bedford - 9,942 registered voters / 14,465 ballots cast
Bedford Heights - 8,142 registered voters / 13,512 ballots cast
Brooklyn - 8,016 registered voters / 12,303 ballots cast
Brooklyn Heights - 1,144 registered voters / 1,869 ballots cast
Chagrin Falls Village - 3,557 registered voters / 4,860 ballots cast
Cuyahoga Heights - 570 registered voters / 1,382 ballots cast
Fairview Park - 13,342 registered voters / 18,472 ballots cast
Highland Hills Village - 760 registered voters / 8,822 ballots cast
Independence - 5,735 registered voters / 6,226 ballots cast
Mayfield Village - 2,764 registered voters / 3,145 ballots cast
Middleburg Heights - 12,173 registered voters / 14,854 ballots cast
Moreland Hills Village - 2,990 registered voters / 4,616 ballots cast
North Olmstead - 25,794 registered voters / 25,887 ballots cast
Olmstead Falls - 6,538 registered voters / 7,328 ballots cast
Pepper Pike - 5,131 registered voters / 6,479 ballots cast
Rocky River - 16,600 registered voters / 20,070 ballots cast
Solon (WD6) - 2,292 registered voters / 4,300 ballots cast
South Euclid - 16,902 registered voters / 16,917 ballots cast
Strongsville (WD3) - 7,806 registered voters / 12,108 ballots cast
University Heights - 10,072 registered voters / 11,982 ballots cast
Valley View Village - 1,787 registered voters / 3,409 ballots cast
Warrensville Heights - 10,562 registered voters / 15,039 ballots cast
Woodmere Village - 558 registered voters / 8,854 ballots cast
Bedford (CSD) - 22,777 registered voters / 27,856 ballots cast
Independence (LSD) - 5,735 registered voters / 6,226 ballots cast
Orange (CSD) - 11,640 registered voters / 22,931 ballots cast
Warrensville (CSD) - 12,218 registered voters / 15,822 ballots cast

The Republicans are so BUSTED.

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/currentresults1.htm#top

Is the official website of the Cuyahoga county election board,
providing
irrefutable evidence that the vote was off by at least 93,000.

Kerry lost Ohio by approximately 130,000, so this is not an
insignificant
figure that can be ignored, particularly when there are numerous other
indications of voter fraud in Ohio and elsewhere. I think the only
possible
alternative is to invalidate the entire Ohio election, if not the
entire
national election.

I'd say the game's up .America, it looks pretty much like you've been
had.

Sincerely,

Teed Rockwell
Philosophy Department
Sonoma State University

Got Fraud?

[Doctor_J]

8. check your PM

please

[ohioan]

9. This has already been explained and dismissed

more than a week ago. There were no "extra" votes. If you actually fully read the source you cited (all the way through), you will see that there is no discrepancy there.

Please check your facts.

[Doctor_J]

10. where did you find this posting?

where is this rockwell posting?

[VivaKerry]

14. Mea culpa...

someone sent it to me by email....

[high density]

11. This has been debunked

http://pages.ivillage.com/americans4america/id20.html

[zmdem]

13. Money spent to confirm Bush won ? n/t