Barack Obama and the Democratic party...

[bush_is_wacko]

He seems like one of the good guys, however, the Democratic party damn well better get wise to the fact that he is NOT Presidential or VP material. He will have far less support than Kerry/Edwards. I'm sorry to have to slap you in the face w/ this, but the entire middle section of our country is way too bigoted to put him in office. They will come out in droves to defeat both him and Hillary. We need to be proactive on our pick for 2008. We also need to be realistic. If they have no chance, let's leave them to do the best job they possibly can in their current positions. give them our praise and our blessings as they deserve, but ALWAYS never lose sight of what wea are up against. When we get our man in office, he can promote the careers of those that put him there. Our man for 2008 must be near PERFECTION. Obama can do a great deal more for this country and our party in his current position. Putting him on a podium and declaring him the next Dem nominee for President is suicide for this party. THINK ABOUT IT! His name is enough to bring out every, toothless, redneck, KKK, gun-totin', member of the Republican party! BEFORE EVERY ONE OF YOU JUMPS DOWN MY THROAT, I DO NOT AGREE WITH THOSE VEIWS, BUT IT IS A FACT WE ALL NEED TO FACE BEFORE 2008 IF WE WANT TO TAKE THE WH BACK!

[Bat Boy]

1. Welcome to DU, Captain Buzzkill!

On edit: I suppose I should actually say what I think...

For crying out loud! Let the man get his chair warm before you go throwing him out there for the presidency!

[Susang]

11. Who's his sidekick?

Boy Downer?

[Bat Boy]

14. Pow! Zapp!

Pontificate!

[Susang]

16. "Zam! Bap!"

Depress!

[Bat Boy]

17. Come, Boy Downer!

We have daisies to step on!

[Susang]

19. And hopes to crush!

Away!

[Bat Boy]

20. And they jump into the Doom Mobile (a '78 Nova, Bondo colored)...

...and speed out of the Cave (that's all, just Cave. No decorations, no throw pillows. Just a dark, damp cave.)

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. eh, by 2016 all the toothless rednecks

will probably be fighting in middle east after the draft starts up. Then all the liberals can come back from Canada and take over the country again. :)

[bush_is_wacko]

21. A large portion of the children from this neighborhood are doing just that

My daughter will soon be of draft/voting age. She already knows 2 boys from this neighborhood headed for military training in June!

[jadedcherub]

3. I cannot, in good conscience, accept your stereotype.

I think Obama has a lot to offer to Democrats and Republicans, to Liberals and Conservatives.

I don't know whether he will run for presidency in '08, but I can tell you this:

We'd be fortunate to have a man like him fighting to become an influential member of the government.

I don't think that there are nearly as many "...toothless, redneck, KKK, gun-totin', member<'s>..." of the Republican party as you think. A good leader with a good message is just that.

.jc.

[bush_is_wacko]

7. Your unwillingness to recognize...

A HUGE portion of the middle of the United States, will do nothing to help the democratic party. I like Obama, you are absolutely correct that he has a lot to offer this party. BUT he is not electable in 2008. Regardless of who he is and what he represents to us, they will see him as a man w/ a name very close to the mastermind of 911. They won't even bother looking at a picture of him, much less researching his record or listening to what he has to say.

I live in a SOLID red state. Believe me, you are very naive' not to recognize this segment of our population. They may not be toothless, but the rest of the description fits. Believe me I live in a neighborhood of approx 700 houses. Approximately 50% of this neighborhood fits the above description to a tee. I neglected to add, tobacco chewing, by the age of 13. They will be toothless by the time they are old enough to vote! And they will vote the way their parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and freinds tell them too. I spend every fourth of July and several weeks before and after waiting for the police to arrive and put an end to the gun shots they think sound like firecrackers! Funny thing is this neighborhood is a 20 minute drive from THE most liberal county in my state. Most of these people have never bothered to take a drive down there, because they have been told by their buddies the streets are filled w/ homosexuals making out on park benches. IT IS COMPLETELY LUDICROUS, of course, but nonethe less, if they bother to drive down there it is only to find a "likely" suspect and beat the crap out of him!

[w13rd0]

9. The area you live in...

...can't be redeemed. No democrat will win them over. Not unless he's a biggotted gay-hating war-loving speech-slurring uberChristian. And sorry, but why even BOTHER if that's what you want? Seriously, stay home, your vote apparently doesn't matter anyway, and you expect Ossama will still be at large in 2008? Or do you think the US populace has an attention span that vastly exceeds expectations?

So who is your perfect candidate?

[bush_is_wacko]

13. Sadly, you are absolutely wrong...

Remember I said 50% of the neighborhood. We managed to defeat Republican candidate Pete Coors in my county. We elected a much better candidate with a far better environmental record, despite the 5 million dollars BushCo spent to address this pathetic lot of voters. The campaign was every bit as nasty as our Presidential campaign. The smears were coming from outer space. The thing BushCo didn't realize is that this particular brand of Republican will usually only vote the first line. President only, no issues, unless they are about gay rights. I have been active in local politics for years here. I know this little neck of the woods really well. I also know, having lived in Kansas for eight years, that this little neck of the woods is SMALL TIME compared to the real Bible belters!

[Leilani]

50. Didn't Obama soundly TROUNCE Keyes?

Is that because they are both African-Americans?

Why is Colin Powell the most popular person in the Bush Administration?

Why did both parties plead for Powell to join them & run for Prez?

I think your post is flamebait.

[robbedvoter]

4. Perfect candidate - first, we won, wuz robbed. Secondly

perfect candidate like that other oxymoron "close enough to steal"

There's no limits to stealing or smearing. And here's Digby's quote again:

This nonsense about finding leaders who are immune from GOP criticism is just ridiculous. I thought we all understood that the attack machine has no relationship to the truth. There is no such thing as an acceptable Democrat anymore. There isn't even such a thing as an acceptable moderat republican anymore. Look what they are doing to Specter.
I simply cannot believe that after the last twelve years any Democrat still believes that there are limits to what the Republicans will say to assassinate someone's character or how far the SCLM will go to promulgate it if the story is juicy enough.

This is just for the sake argument. because I will never vote again for a candidate who tells me to "get over it" . Never again!

[bush_is_wacko]

23. I agree we won and were robbed

Now what do we intend to do about it if we cannot get the election results overturned? Are we willing to nominate a candidate that cannot win just to be robbed of the WH for another four years? 12 years of the current policies in Washington will take this country back to the days of the Salem witch hunts. Only the witches will be those of us branded as Democrats and Liberals. Believe me , the Repubs are already grooming their next candidate!

[robbedvoter]

45. Did you pay attention to the rest of my post? The smear machine

has nothing to do with reality - we need not look for acceptance from the thugs. We name our most capable guy. Period. Then we try to get our elections back. In the reverse order that is.

[Kahuna]

5. Says you. So glad you have all the answers for the rest of us.

:eyes:

[iwantmycountryback]

6. He probably won't run in 2008

And I don't think the country is quite that bigoted. The areas of the country that are aren't voting for any Democrat for President so it's meaningless. The fact that he actually is just a regular guy and is a very good speaker and can connect will help him a lot.

[w13rd0]

8. You are right I think...

...I don't think he'll run in 2008. He'll need a full term in the Senate, and maybe something else, to serve on a ticket. And I still think a Senator isn't going to be the train to ride in 2008. But it won't matter if our democracy is dead.

[bush_is_wacko]

15. You are mistaken and I still want this as a bumper sticker! n/t

[fujiyama]

10. Obama

has made it clear he isn't running for president anytime soon.

After all in '08, he'd have been in the senate for only 4 years. He's smart enough to know that isn't enough. No one has declared him the next nominee.

I think he will eventually run for president - maybe in '12 or '16, depending if Dems can win in '08.

As for Hillary, I think her numbers are high right now because it's very early and she has a lot of name recognition. After all, remember that Lieberman had very high numbers early on. If the party puts her up, we will lose. I have little doubt about that.

I also think you're dead wrong about nominating a woman or minority. Barack Obama is likely to be the first African American presidential nominee and I think he has a chance in winning. It may not happen in '08, but maybe in '12 or '16. We can't sit around and fear prejudice. We should nominate whomever is most qualified - and that includes women and minorities.

[bush_is_wacko]

18. It will not be in 08, but you may be correct...

In your predictions of 12 or 16. I surely HOPE that can be accomplished at that time! The process will take time. There is no PERFECT candidate out there (that goes for all parties), but we need to find one as close to that standard as possible.

[Cheswick2.0]

12. no problem, we will let the whole country be controlled by

ignorant bigots from red states.

[bush_is_wacko]

25. That is the attitude that will insure defeat

in this party. Recognize your enemy and prepare for battle. Two lessons we all should have learned from the Bush failures!

[Cheswick2.0]

27. hell, I am agreeing with you

THINK ABOUT IT! His name is enough to bring out every, toothless, redneck, KKK, gun-totin', member of the Republican party!

No problem I agree that we should forget what is right and ethical and allow the ignorant and hateful of the country to rule us all. We will never have a president who isn't a southern white christian male. No fucking problem bud.

[bush_is_wacko]

31. That's not my position

I simply think 2008 is too soon to put a candidate like this on the ballot. I LIKE Obama. I just want to put someone in office that can bring him out to a public that has already been primed for his appearance. A public that has already SEEN what Obama has accomplished. Right now, and even in 08' his only accomplishment to the right is that he got elected and appeared at our convention. None of them cares what he stands for. Hell they don't even know who he is!

[Wunderkind]

22. Strange Logic

I don't think you can refuse to nominate someone because you're afraid the fact that he's black will hurt his chances of winning. Isn't it our job to propel (or shove) the country forward?

That said, Obama is a little too inexperienced to be on a national ticket in 2008. Edwards came across as a little green in the campaign and I think it hurt him in the primaries and the general. Obama's experience in 2008 would be even more limited than Edwards was in 2004 (4 years vs. 6) although I guess you could make the case that Obama has more government experience if you could Illinois state politics.

[bush_is_wacko]

26. I'm not refusing to nominate him for that reason!

I KNOW my areas voting patterns. I KNOW they (Right-wingers) vote on Presidential and gay rights issues only. Every time we have an election other than a Presidential election this state overwhelmingly supports Democratic issues and candidates. We have a very liberal mayor in our capitol city. We passed environmental issues during this election by the ton. We told our electric company they needed to use more alternative energy sources. We passed a very costly plan to expand our transit system andwe voted against putting Republican Pete coors in office (look up his environmental record, you will be sickened) Republicans in my state do not vote on these issues, they are unimportant to their near sighted veiw of their world! Our Republican Governor was elected during a year in which this state voted on a Gay rights bill! Do you get the picture I'm trying to paint for you? I KNOW there is an effort in this country to spread those believers to other states. I have seen the trend with my own eyes. Texans abound here in Colorado, at the moment, but many converts to the Republican moral values crowd are being transferred to the northen states. Every year I see more MONSTER size churches being constructed. The Democratic party needs to arm themselves w/ the proper information. Do you remember Geraldine Ferraro? What a travesty that was! We had no chance w/ that ticket. If we do something "progressive" like this in the next election, we are doomed! Get someone in office that can groom the next progressive candidate. Expose him/her to the public enough and get him/or her elected! The Republican party was well aware that Powell was unelectable in 2000. They knew their public far better than we do.

[dogman]

32. Just a few points.

While tthere is a lot of truth in your opinion, there are also facts to the contrary. Just because a few have gotten overanxious I would say it's unlikely Obama will be a national candidate until he has more experience and background. A large portion of Illinois is red and he helped push quite a few counties purple. The GOp probably could have run Powell because so many Dems can't see beyond his color and would have crossed over to vote for him. If winning means moving much further to the right we might as well surrender and join the GOP. We would stand a better chance subverting them from within.

[newyawker99]

51. Hi Wunderkind!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[ZombieNixon]

24. Look, Obama seems like a sensible guy,

so if I'm right and he has any sense, he won't run for president in 2008. Think about it. The 2008 campaign will really begin in late 2006, at which point, Obama will have had what? Less than two years under his belt. Even if he does win the nomination, by 2008 he still won't have served a full term. He'd get killed on experience. He won't do it. By 2020 or so, he'll have had 2 terms and then some and a record to run on. Let him serve for a while before throwing him into the presidential race.

[bush_is_wacko]

28. EXACTLY!

And focus on a Democratic candidate that can win and start promoting a candidate like Obama for hsi successes! We will get there, we just need to be wise enough now to recognize our limitations.

[Radical Activist]

29. Oviously you don't live in downstate Illinois

or you would know about all the toothless rednecks that like Obama and voted for him. Go suck an egg!

[Padraig18]

54. Thank you!

He beat Alan Keyes 61-39 in my VERY red county.

[Padraig18]

30. AFAIK, he has no plans on either office.

He wants to serve at least one full term, would be my bet.

[bush_is_wacko]

33. I'm sure you are right

but apparantly there a a few of us out there that think he is a possibility for 08. I disagree w/ that. I want to see a real record of accomplishments before we present him to a bunch of morons that will tear him apart!

[Kahuna]

34. Did you say that Edwards was too inexperienced to run?.. A lot of ..

people on DU who are saying that Obama shouldn't run in '08, had no problem with Edwards running. At least Obama was a local legislator. Edwards was a personal injury attorney who wanted to be considered for VP after serving for two years. I don't get it. Can anyone explain this to me?

For the record, I agree that Obama shouldn't run in '08. But I'm consistent. I didn't think that Edwards should have run either.

[JHBowden]

35. Barack HUSSEIN Obama would have difficultly

I voted for him in the primary and the general election, and have his bumper sticker on my car. But I'm skeptical he could pick up red states in today's America, given his name.

[bush_is_wacko]

37. You got it!

I'm not sure even my Iraqi/American Kurd Friends would vote for him. Better to run a candidate with a record and a language the Republicans and Democrats can respect. I realize that is an oxymoron. Let's just work on finding someone with an established record of doing the right thing!

[Radical Activist]

42. How much would black voter turnout need to increase to win two southern

states? Don't you think that will be a factor? The most overlooked reason Clinton won was increased African-American turnout. Obama would no doubt do better in the South than Kerry, who didn't connect with anyone in the region.

[Turn CO Blue]

36. RELAX. He wouldn't run anyway. Jeepers!

Let's let him do what he can do in Illinois for a few years. Let him get on some committees, head up a committee, gain a little gravitas, make a few speeches, campaign for others, etc. --

BEFORE we start trying to make him run for the job only a crazy person would want!

[journalist3072]

38. Senator-Elect Obama

Sorry, but I would disagree with your assertion that Senator-Elect Obama is not "presidential material."

I think he is. One of the reasons I like him is that he seems to be trying to unite everyone. He's trying to appeal to everyone's best hopes, not worst fears. I think he would be a brilliant Presidential candidate.

[bush_is_wacko]

40. But not in 2008

Give it time. Get a candidate in the WH s/ a long term record that can be easily researched and put in the public eye, long before 2006! In fact fairly quickly!

[JT4]

39. Totally disagree, I'm from Illinois....

And I had the privelage of hearing Mr. Obama speak on the issues... When pressed if he was looking to defeat the Republicans, he said,"I'm running for Illinois, so that everyone wins."

He is most articulate, compassionate and well versed in being human.

I doubt he will run in '08, but his future is bright and I think a Presidency is in his future. And that is fine by me.

[bush_is_wacko]

41. If you read my message

You will see I agree w/ you that he has potential, but agin, not in 2008. 4yrs goes by in a flash. We need to work on getting a candidate with a record out there very soon!

[ElectroPrincess]

43. Please consider this ...

What IF the rules are changed so that * can run for a 3rd term?

If you consider the "Rove Factor" even Obama is toast. :(

[bush_is_wacko]

48. I know where your coming from

But I can't think of a single person I know, dem or repub, that would let that happen. 4 more years of this administration and I believe this country will be in the streets, just like they were in the 60's. They will not allow anyone associated w/ this mess to be elected to office after 4 years of war, soaring debt, and perhaps another terrorist attack. I cannot foresee any scenario that will get our troops out of Iraq within the next 4 years and I can't foresee a scenario that won't include a draft of some kind by that time. When people start realizing Iraq is not just over there and they are told they must sacrifice their children, this country will not sit on it's fat ass and let it happen again. I wish I felt differently, but I have already spoken to my daughter who will be of draft age within the next four years and her generation will not go down w/o a fight! I'm even seeing the return of hippie hairstyles. Believe it or not hairstyles are often indicative a major change. A change is coming, it just needs to build enough momentum. This time they will have their parents and grandparents backing them up!

[newyawker99]

52. Hi JT4!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[lilfroggy]

44. I agree

Unfortunately, we also have tons of racists in this country....

[leyton]

46. North Carolina Senate Race, Gantt vs. Helms.

I'm paraphrasing, because I've returned the library book where I read this.

Harvey Gantt was a black Democrat who twice challenged Jesse Helms for the US Senate seat. Some random white guy in rural NC was asked about his thoughts on Gantt and whether race affected his vote. He said something to the effect of: "Well, I do know some smart black people, but Harvey Gantt isn't one of them."

Now, before you all flame me, yeah, that's racist, and I'm not here to defend that sort of attitude. But I think that's how a lot of your "toothless, redneck, KKK, gun-totin' Republicans" are: they don't hate blacks indiscriminately. They set the bar higher; it's harder for them to be impressed by a black man or a black woman. But the flip side is that if a brilliant black person comes along, this rural white guy from NC might vote for him. Obama has proven his appeal in Illinois, and I think he could prove it here in NC as well. He is just that good.

[MrSlayer]

47. I agree.

We cannot run a minority or female candidate for President in this country because of the bigotry. That is still, unfortunately, a long way off. Besides that, Obama is young and hasn't even cast a Senate vote yet, he needs to get out there and show what he's got. I wouldn't look for him to do anything at the Presidential level for at least 10 to 12 years. Hillary would be horrible at any point in time.

[liberalequestrian]

49. I totally agree

Someone brought this up to me... Obama 2008. I said, "Hun, I don't think so, unless you want to lose AGAIN!". I love Obama, I think he will make a WONDERFUL candidate in a few elections, or a Cabinet member... but we couldn't make it this year with one man in the Senate for 20 years and one in for six years... no way is someone with FOUR years experience going to do well... not to mention that he is African American- NOT A PROBLEM FOR ME, but let's face it, some in this country still do not see equality like we do. I know die hard dems that probably wouldn't vote for him... sorry folks, but we need to WIN! (and isn't this just a LITTLE premature since he hasn't even spent a day on the Senate floor yet?!)

[Withywindle]

53. It's true about 2008, but...

No way will he run in 2008. I think he's ambitious, but not recklessly so.

Later on, sure! As Radical Activist pointed out, a LOT of rural white people--even rednecks, yes! voted for him. Even tons of Republicans crossed party lines to vote for him; he won by a MUCH bigger margin in IL than Kerry did! Now, maybe this is because they had no choice but to vote for a Black man for Senate, and maybe the real hardcore racists abstained from that vote altogether. But Obama seems to have no trouble at all connecting with rural whites. Could the fact that his mother was a white woman from Kansas and he was partly raised by his white grandparents have anything to do with that? His background is truly multicultural, and I think this is generally a huge asset to him. (Watch race baiters of all flavors try to turn it against him, though). Never forget, his parents' marriage would have been illegal in many states at the time it happened. He's a living reminder that social progress is difficult but rewarding.

There was serious Presidential buzz around Colin Powell ten years ago. Not now, of course--the Bush administration ruined him. I knew a lot of white conservatives who admired him and said they would have voted for him. Maybe he could have been elected in the 90s -- we'll never know now. Maybe a moderate conservative African-American is less threatening to the dreaded hillbilly demographic than an unabashedly liberal one. Powell's military background probably gave him major cred with that crowd too. But still, if Powell, than why not Obama?