Who, here, will follow the Democratic Party if it moves to the right?

[Padme Amidala]

[CarbonDate]

1. Nope, sorry

I'll take it over if they do that.

[dubyaD40web]

2. Not sure "follow" is the right word - more like "stalk"

Stalk it down, shoot it with a tranquilizer gun, just like on Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom (careful Jim, those teeth are razor sharp) and drag it back to the left where it damn well belongs.

I might need some help with this. Anybody in?

[Padraig18]

3. Not on core values.

Nonetheless, we need to remember that even a fairly significant rightward shift on some policies in our party would still leave it significantly to the left of the Republicans.

[IndianaGreen]

19. "significantly to the left of the Republicans"

we need to remember that even a fairly significant rightward shift on some policies in our party would still leave it significantly to the left of the Republicans.

The Republicans are the Nazis, and the Democrats are the Italian Fascists. How about rejecting both and join those that oppose the budding Fourth Reich.

[Turn CO Blue]

33. *chuckle*

See my post on similar subject:

Oh sure, just keep moving to the Center - my counterpoint
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1388477&mesg_id=1388477&page=>

[IndianaGreen]

58. You make several excellent points in that thread, Turn CO Blue

In a nutshell, people have bought Reaganism and now view his extreme views as mainstream, which is why so many Democrats have voted in favor of abortion restrictions and why they have adopted the slogan "the gay agenda" to label any demand by GLBTs for equality and justice.

We might as well set up altars in our homes to worship at the Reagan idol, just as some of our party leaders do.

[Padraig18]

55. Ahem.

How about rejecting both and join those that oppose the budding Fourth Reich.

Who says I don't, number one, and where did I say I supported a rightward shift?

:shrug:

[IndianaGreen]

59. You didn't say it, but From, Reed, and that cow Brazile did say it

when they gave their join autopsy on the Kerry campaign, their consensus was that Democrats needed to move farther right, and should also embrace as their own the intolerance and bigotry of the religious Right.

[Padraig18]

66. OK.

I was just making it clear that I didn't.

Peace. :hi:

[blue sky at night]

4. say it ain't so...

if they do, what will they have left, we will (a bunch of lefty liberals) mostly jump ship?? Surely no Moran from the Re-pugs would disgrace themselves by joining that other right-leaning party. It will be the end of the DEMocratic Party. Not a good idea.

[w13rd0]

5. If I wanted to be a Republican...

...I'd register as one. If the DemParty moves right, it will cease to be anything other than a "token" opposition, and completely undeserving of my support, in time, donations or vote.

[MatrixEscape]

6. Moving to the Right ...

is admitting defeat when it's time for the fight.

Absurd!

[Meritaten1]

7. What do you define as moving to the right?

Adopting rightwing policies, or communicating a progressive message in language that will attract moderates to Democratic positions?

[Padraig18]

11. Excellent question!

:thumbsup:

[Sparkly]

24. That's the question I'd like answered, too

The phrase "move right" is sometimes applied to policy positions, and sometimes applied to the very idea of appealing to people who "moved right" in the last few elections.

Edited to add: Also, does "follow" the party mean vote Democratic, or does it mean go along with a policy shift without a fight?

[JohnKleeb]

29. thats a great question

[McGonigle]

56. You should read

"Don't think of an Elephant."

The thesis of the book is that by using right-wing language when discussing their policies, we activate their language in our voters. If we want to get the swing voters to vote for us, we need our own language to talk about policies.

[dogman]

8. I would prefer to join the GOP and push them left.

If we're going to sell out, what the hell?

[calimary]

39. I actually thought of that, myself. If you register GOP, then chances

are very good that your vote will be counted. It's much more likely not to be "lost" if it has an "r" on it rather than a "d." And if they crunched the numbers, it'd certainly discombobulate them to think that lots of "their own" were crossing over to the enemy camp. Anything to mess with their heads.

[PassingFair]

9. DLC, Take Note!

n/t

[TankLV]

10. If the Dems move any further to the right than they already have for the

past 24 years and don't return to the middle - I'm outta it for the first time in my life.

I will no longer be a part of what I don't believe in.

I will still vote AGAINST the idiots in power currently, but I certainly won't campaign for or work for or vote for repuke-lite.

[Stew225]

12. I'm so ashamed of the party that I'm considering

re-registering as an Independent. If Kerry runs again, I will bcome even more active than I was this year FOR him, but be AGAINST him.

And please don't accuse me of being a freeper.

[fugue]

13. How long do you keep with a failing strategy?

They've been doing this since 1980. It isn't working.

It's time to try something else. Anything but moving further right!

[Carolina]

14. exactly

Clinton himself said (paraphrased): the definition of stupidity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different result.

Well, for Dems, moving rightward, repuke-lite-ward is a recipe for MORE FAILURE.

I've been a Dem since Kennedy in 1960, but if the party continues its rightward march, it can forget about any support from me.

[BansheeDem]

28. Moving "right" does not mean abandoning our values ...

Clearly, a move to the right (actually "center") is exactly what President Clinton did. As a result, he attracted more moderates, which included many Republicans, and won two terms handily. Since then, the party has slowly drifted left. As I have said in other posts, what part of this is so hard to understand? If we are to survive as a party, we must face the political reality that moving more to the center is necessary. BTW, by today's standards, Jack Kennedy would be considered a moderate conservative. I would hate to think that we would lose you, and I readily admit that my political ideology lies more center than left. But this is a fight for our political life, and a shift from far left to center is essential if we are to prevail in 2006 and 2008.

[TankLV]

31. Ahh - another new low count poster giving "us" advise.

Are you lost?

Enjoy your stay while you're still "above ground"!

"WE" don't listen to people like you, thankyouverymuch.

[BansheeDem]

38. The last time I read the rules ...

there was no mention that you had to have a certain amount of posts in order to have a valid opinion. Or have they changed them recently?

If you do not want to entertain the thought that the party might be a tad too left, that is fine; I will accept that your viewpoint is not the same as mine. But I don't think my viewpoint should be "trashed" because I don't have as many posts as you. I don't post that often because I only respond to those topics that interest me. When I have something to say, I will say it. With that in mind, I'm sure it will take me many many years to get to 1000 posts or more.

I also find it curious that you would judge me based on that one criteria. If I did that in my line of work, I would pass over many qualified people. I think we both agree that this would be a grave mistake when considering someone for a job.

[newyawker99]

41. Hi BansheeDem!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Cheswick2.0]

46. Clinton won because he was Clinton

not because he moved right. The DLC stategy of moving right has lost us everything.

[blondeatlast]

48. Exactly--Dean made that very clear in his book. nt

[saracat]

65. Thank you thank you thank you. I have been making that point forever.

And I am so grateful there is another person who agrees!

[blondeatlast]

47. Welcome to DU.

:toast: :hi:

As to why you are, well, WRONG:

The RW in power has become the RADICALS. If the Radical Right succeeds in their agenda, we won't need to abandon the Democratic core (like me, a third generation Dem) to appeal to the moderates--ANY viable alternative will sound good to them.

This is PRECISELY how the Republicans did things in the '90s with remarkable success.

We can do it now.

And since you listened to me; here's another:

:toast: :hi:

[saracat]

64. You are kidding , right???

Party drifted left? Clinton won in spite of the centrists. He lost both houses of congress. His charisama bought him another chance but defeated our message. The DLC has been losing since then. Centrism without Clinton doesn't work. If it is so wonderful, why don't the Republicans use it?

[saracat]

67. Yes it does. And BTW, Clinton is why we are losing.

We can't duplicate his success with a losing centrist message. If it was such a great idea to be centrist, republicans would not win by being RW.

[noiretextatique]

68. put down the crack pipe

how has the party slowly drifted to the left? would that be support for welfare reform? NAFTA? the war on iraq? how?

[IndianaGreen]

15. "if it moves to the right?"

We are too far right already!

Most Democrats supported the unprovoked attack on Iraq with their votes for IWR and willingly chose to gut our civil liberties with the PATRIOT Act.

[genius]

16. We should send the results of this polls to our leaders and to the DLC

[bush_is_wacko]

17. However, I will follow if..

they use terms like "family rights" to replace words like abortion and "gay marriage." The words have too many negative conotattions for a lot of people! Our message is not being heard when we use negative terms to express it.

[jpgray]

18. It's a more complicated answer

I will not move right ever. I caucused for Dennis, and if the opportunity presents itself again to caucus for a true leftist candidate I will do so, but if there is that binary choice between the removal of a limb and a punch in the face, I will work and fight for that punch in the face every time.

:)

[magellan]

20. What, and join the GOP collective?

Never. Resistance is NOT futile.

[robbedvoter]

30. Why the need to join a collective? Independence is sweet.

I had already bid god bye to the "middle class only" pure blood only" Mayflower party. Not good enough for them :eyeroll:

[Piperay]

21. Probably because

I am not going to become a repuke and until this a viable alternative I will stay in the Democratic Party.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. It's about as far to the right as I can stand, and by that I mean...

... that it's as beholden to corporate power as I can stand.

I want a Democratic party that stands up for the little person.

[SOS]

74. Exactly

We are stuck because we can't criticize the corporations that are ruining our lives.
Oil companies that gutted CAFE standards, pharmaceutical companies that write Medicare drug benefit legislation, banks that charge 26% on credit cards, auto manufacturers wrecking pollution and mileage standards, health insurance companies that increase rates 15% a year while cutting benefits....

If a Dem candidate could lambaste these crooks we would win. But we can't because the Party is cashing their checks.

It's time to refuse ALL corporate and PAC money. We can raise half a billion in four years from the 55 million who voted for Kerry. That's only $10 per voter. Wouldn't it be worth $10 to rid our Party of these vampires? A populist, anti-corporate, anti-Washington candidate would win. Another Wall Street-funded DLC triangulator in 2008 will be the end of this Party.

[shesemsmom]

23. Never!!!!

EVER :argh:

[Cobalt Violet]

25. Never!

I won't budge an inch.

[AmerDem]

26. The Dem party is us!

The so called leaders that are in the power seats are nothing. We are the backbone and the guts of the operation. They can move anywhere they wish, actually i'd prefer many of them to disappear soon but we will carry on.

[Jack_DeLeon]

27. Depends on which parts are moving to the right?

IMO the core beliefs of the Democrat Party should be the economic issues. Fair wages, a responsible economic policy, health care and education.

If the party moves to the right on those issues then it wont be the Democrat Party anymore.

However if say they moved to the "right" on issues such as gay marriage, abortion, and gun policy. Then I dont necessarily see that as being much of a problem, infact we would probably do better nationwide and be able to get in position to do somethings that are really important for our nation.

[shawrick]

54. I agree

And we need to explain why we have taken certain core economic positions.

[iconoclastic cat]

70. Democrat party? Hmmm...let me ask you this:

Do you believe that we are living in the End Times?

[Jack_DeLeon]

73. ¿QUE?

[Turn CO Blue]

32. Love the name, Your Majesty! n/t

[JVS]

34. I'm bookmarking this thread to trot out next election

I wish that I had rembered to bookmark the threads about Democratic supporters of the IWR when that happened to bring back up when people who disliked Kerry were being told to fall into line

[sampsonblk]

49. Good point

Bookmarking also

[proudbluestater]

35. That's exactly why I left the Republicans!

Or maybe they left me when they gave up letting moderates run the party.

[Baja Margie]

36. I'm also going to have serious second thoughts

if they do nothing regarding the voter fraud.

[bling bling]

37. No can do.

Move to the left or else get someone else to volunteer their money and time campaigning for the dem party candidate. I won't do it again unless they start to remember who they are.

[xxqqqzme]

40. Isn't it already crowded on the right?

I don't think the dems will fit.

I'll vote green B4 I vote RW Dem.

[iconoclastic cat]

42. Buh-bye!

[shawrick]

53. what are you talking about with "buh bye"?

What do you mean "buh bye"?

[iconoclastic cat]

69. Let me be perfectly clear: I do not vote for conservatives.

"Buh bye" means that when Democrats start emulating and supporting the militant Fundigelicans, I will not vote for them.

[LiberalAndProud]

43. NO!

[w4rma]

44. Out gun the Republicans by supporting even less gun control, aimed at

specifically rural voters.

ALLOW Democratic politicians to talk more about religion and how liberals values are Jesus Christ's values. I think they want to but are held back by a few loud people who are mostly in the Democratic base. Anytime they try to talk about religion these knee-jerk anti-religious folk shout them down. You have to remember that Jesus Christ's message is a good one and its not a bad thing to be evangelistic about Jesus Christ's message. Its bad when the message is twisted into (a Satanic message?) one of hate toward folks of other religions, cultures, ethnicities, social standing, etc.

Forget about gay marraige, alltogether. Don't let big media and Republican appointed judges suck you into that argument again. But, fight hard for getting civil unions into law.

Be tough on illegal immigrents. Remember that they are breaking the law by being here. Forget about pandering to Hispanics with stupid things like supporting drivers licenses for illegals. Illegals don't vote. Pander to the hispanics who are American citizens, not hispanics who are not supposed to be here.

Never ever support *anything* that sends the jobs of Americans overseas. And you must be very very clear about that to southern Americans, because they know who passed NAFTA: Bill Clinton. And they blame Democrats for NAFTA and they think that Republicans are basically the same. You MUST defeat this fallacy. And anytime big media makes hay about some Democrat who opposes "protectionism" and supports NAFTA as written hurts Dems in the South, regardless of what the DLC may tell you.

If this is what you mean by 'moves to the right" then I'd have no problem whatsoever with this. This is basically jettisonning just about as much extra policy, that helps Republicans drive a wedge between Americans, as ethically possible.

I think this question, in the manner you have posed it, is uninformative.

[McGonigle]

57. The concern is

That if we ditch all the wedge issues, like gay marriage, gun control, etc, they'll cook up new issues to get us with.

I agree with you that some of those dogs won't hunt, but there are more "wedge issues" out there just waiting.

Prayer in school, the endangered species act, public funding of the arts.... on and on to infinity.

"So-and-so voted for a bill funding so-called "public art" knowing that it would in fact LIMIT the ability of parents to control what their children are exposed to! Ask so-and-so WHY he would vote for something so blatantly anti-family!"

"So-and-so voted AGAINST the patriot act knowing that his vote would LIMIT the ability of law enforcement to arrest criminals! Ask so-and-so WHY he wants to undermine the legal system!"

Basically, if we concede all wedge issues, we wind up with nothing.

[blondeatlast]

45. This yellow dog will find a new home if they move to the right.

I'm pretty disgusted right now.

[Sinti]

50. Ideology or just winning?

/rant on
How far right does the Democratic Party need to go?
We've moved to the right consistently for 20+ years, today's Democratic Party has a lot of people in it that would be considered to be Goldwater Republicans. Every time we move right, they move farther right, and the center changes. And we "follow" to the new center. We need to "evangelize" to bring people to us, not follow more and more to the right on core principles of our party. People won't follow followers, they look for leadership.

We need to reframe, we need to create thought leadership. If you believe our ideals are correct, we have to teach that they are correct, we need to connect with people where the tire meets the road. We're not the party of intolerance, bigotry, discrimination, corporate power, and preemptive war. If that's what it takes to "win," I would rather lose and keep my soul. If we return to our Liberal roots, we should not be ashamed to be labeled Liberal. That's become a dirty word because the right says so. I am a Liberal, proud to be a Liberal.

I personally believe that we have nothing to be ashamed of or need to become Repuke-lite in order to have people believe in what we believe in. Too many of us are looking to find the center and wasting their time instead of forging ahead on well-grounded Left ideals and helping people understand them. We don't need to be just a little left of the RW, we need to return to where we started.

We need to get the message out everyday to everyday people, evangelizing one person at a time if necessary. That's how they got there, they didn't move to the center and pull to the right, they pulled people to the right following them. We need to make people understand why it's in the Nation's best interest to follow us to the Left, back to where we belong, not this new idea of where the Left is only slightly more open-minded than the right.

/rant off

[KerryDownUnder]

51. Not me...I think that's the problem right now

I was stoked that Howard Dean was considering the chairmanship of the DNC because, more than anything else, he'd bring some decisiveness to the Democratic positions. Then I read Eleanor Clift's latest and it mentions how Dean is planning a series of speeches to moderate his positions and I'm like WTF? I don't pretend to be a political expert or anything, but how do you win elections by watering down your true positions?

[quaker bill]

52. Why bother? The repugs have that turf covered.

If I was going to go right, why not side with the party that wins elections? The victory parties are bound to be more upbeat.

I think I will stay right where I am thanks.

[Hippo_Tron]

60. How far to the right?

And what's the alternative? If it's Evan Bayh vs. Rick Santorum in the next election, I'm voting for Evan Bayh. Of course I will definately be supporting a more liberal primary candidate than Bayh.

[norml]

61. I'd have to know how far and in what way before I could say for sure.

The Democratic Party would have to move pretty far to the right for me to abandon it. You know from my other threads that I think moving to the right would be a mistake and is just opposition propaganda meant to drive us apart and divert us from going after them. If it was the most viable way to oppose the movement that calls itself conservative,I would. There may come a time when a more viable opportunity presents itself. Until then I would do all I can to promote party unity.

[deminflorida]

62. I'll Follow Clark, who is far from moving to the right......

That's a fact that many here on DU are going to have to get used to...

[The Flaming Red Head]

63. Right on out of having anyone to vote for. (like voting counts, anymore)

[GreenPartyVoter]

71. That would be a big NO, but then it's not my party anyway.

[Cuban_Liberal]

72. That depends on what 'right' means, and on what issues...

If it goes 'right' on gun-control, e.g., all I can say is "Hallelujah!". If you mean going right on the Patriot Act II, however, then HELL NO!

It all depends on what your definitions are.