Let's just get over it.....Bush won both elections fair and square...

[Wetzelbill]

Yeah, and I'm going to be the starting Point Guard for the Lakers next year.

What eats me up is that Kerry, Gore and all the Democratic Senators show little will to fight back. If Bush was put into Kerry or Gore's situation in the last two elections do you think the Republicans would have laid down? I'm disheartened at the lack of balls Dems have shown for the last 16 years or so. Republcans will always be Rebublicans. You'll always have the Bushes, Delays, Roves, Atwaters, Gingriches et al... That's not going to change and you can't change people like that. But, what you can do is stand up and fight for what is right. Politics, especially elections, is an all or nothing situation. Close doesn't count for shit. Winning is what matters. And, until we get that and fight tooth and nail to do so, then the Democrats will always have serious problems getting elected and enacting good policies.

So that's my two cents anyway. Love to hear more views from all of you.

[knowbody0]

1. and the pope's a muslem

[tk2kewl]

2. Devils advocate here so don't flame me...

...but maybe dems arent making a huge fuss over fraud cause the pukes are just better at it?

[saracat]

17. They are better.And its too bad, as I don't give a rats ass how we win any

longer either. Just that we do it!

[Ardee]

3. One man's opinion

The Democrats haven't really, truly contested anything for four years now, so why on earth would they start now?

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Sh..... don't tell anybody this secret

IT IS UP TO US.


US History is clear on this, with the exception of the Revolution Politicos do NOT lead, we do.

Did Rosa Parks wait for a leader? No... she just said no, I am not moving to the back of the bus

Did Martin Luther wait for a leader? Oh wait he BECAME that leader.

Did Lincoln lead on slavery? NO, he got behind the movement as a way to get back to southern land owners.

I could go on....

The only time the leaders well led, were the founding fathers, but alas they were the ones living in Tyranny

So you are still waiting for a leader to emerge? Look in the mirror, YOU ARE THAT LEADER.

[tk2kewl]

5. this is, in fact, the path that theo-cons took

and the rest of the pukes have followed

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. This is now our path

this is now our mandate

We either stand up, lead or get out of the way...

[Ducks In A Row]

6. when you join the lakers can you get us all court side tickets

:)

[Turn CO Blue]

7. If everyone who voted for Dems pitched in 2 cents...

would we have enough money to buy them all a set of cajones?

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. If everybody stopped bitching and went out and did some

educating we would be a tad further along in what needs to be done.

Oh before you say it, I spent my moring giving leaphlets away.... and mostly listening

[Turn CO Blue]

19. Whoa there! I doubt you meant to reply to me.

I was making a joke about collecting money to buy the Dem leadership some nice Brass Ones...since they don't have the courage to speak up and act like the opposition party they are on issues that DU'ers seem to be able to rebut and speak clearly to every single day.

Oh, if and when I start "bitching" you will definitely know it.

[Eloriel]

10. Two things for you

The Politics of Victimization
http://mathewgross.com/blog/archives/001041.html

which I think is outtasight, and this rather pitiful response from Barney Frank:

My response from Barney Frank RE: Election Fraud
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x86379

Both are definitely worth reading, if for no other reason than to start getting it in our heads:

It's up to us. It's always been up to us, but now more than ever. WE have to become the leaders we've been waiting for, and there's not a minute to lose.

I'm almost over being "disappointed" or frustrated or disgusted with them -- no time, no energy to waste on those fools. They've shown that they are WORTHLESS, absolutely worthless, and not worth thinking about any further.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Not to toot my own horn, but add this one

On Organizing Principles

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2763276

and this one, on civil disobedience

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2763276

[leyton]

11. Well, I think he won the second one legitimately.

Whether spewing lies like the swift boat crap counts as 'fair and square' is up to y'all, but coming out with a three-million vote margin makes me think that he won the election. While it's possible that we actually did win Florida or Ohio, we lost the popular vote and so in the end George W. Bush proved the more popular candidate. Also, the final batch of polls from Nov 1st (not election day polls) gave Ohio and Florida to Bush IIRC.

About 2000, I think he stole it. Too many blacks disenfranchised in Florida, and Katharine Harris (chairman of the Bush Florida campaign) and Jeb Bush (brother of Mr. Bush) were counting the votes. And Gore won the popular vote.

[saracat]

16. Not a chance. It is not in his nature to win legitmately!

I am sure he prefers to cheat , just as he did in college. It is more fun this way. Why change now?

[bobbieinok]

18. lots of info at DU that W vote was padded in all states to give him pop vo

vote

[leyton]

20. To be honest, I haven't read it.

A lot of what I read in the early days was pretty unconvincing, to be honest, and I haven't been back that way since. Just in my estimation, Bush won the election. I'm not claiming to be particularly qualified on the subject or anything. :)

[Eagle_Eye]

12. Sure bush won the election

And I can drive my car with no air in the right rear tire because it is only flat on one side. The Supreme Court gave bush the election, and after he stacks it with right wing judges, the democrats won't stand a chance for the next 20 years.

[McKenzie]

13. what is so damned ironic

is that when Bill Clinton indulged in a bit of extra marital he was hauled in front of hearings. Huge amounts of money were wasted on what was trivial. Jeez, I could understand that happening if it was a matter of national importance, or a security threat. However, it's unlikely the Russians and the Chinese put their militaries on full alert when they learned that Bill and Monika had a bit of hanky panky. And it did nothing to affect his political judgement.

Most Europeans wouldn't give a shit if their leaders were having a bit on the side. Sheesh, we've even had openly gay cabinet ministers in the UK and Paris has/had a gay mayor.

Yet your presidential election is riddled with anomalies and government stays dumb. Even the defeated candidate is doing nothing.

Ironic methinks.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

[saracat]

15. I agree with you 100% .Well said.

I think we can also be no longer moderate. We can no longer be gentleman. It didn't work for Daschle and it didn't work for anyone. Clinton won because he was Clinton. No one else could pull off his centrism . The superimposition of the DLC mantra over the Gore and Kerry message blurred their messages. We need to sharply define ourselves and we can't do that while being moderates. If it worked the republican's would be moderated and they have gone RW. We need to become junkyard dogs. We need to fight them as they have fought us.And it may even be too late.